Tyreke Jumpshot
- Thread starter HereWeBoogie
- Start date
I doubt it, but stranger things have happened. I can see someone going about as high as 9.5. I know we have had coaching issues here, but teams that would be looking to sign him are going to see how his stats have declined and how he has been playing for a team which has not improved since he joined. This is from the POV of a lottery/fringe playoff team. They would probably max at about 9mil-9.5mil a year.
As for the playoff/contender type teams looking to fill a need who already have established players will probably pass on him or offer in the range of 30-32mil.
As for the playoff/contender type teams looking to fill a need who already have established players will probably pass on him or offer in the range of 30-32mil.
You'd balk at 8.5 M for a young guy with a ton of underutilized talent? Glad you aren't running the team. Look around the league at salaries. Who do you think could possibly bring what Reke does now, let alone on a well structured for that deal?
As usual, your blind distaste for Evans is getting in the way of rational thinking.
As usual, your blind distaste for Evans is getting in the way of rational thinking.
Not sure, this will show up properly, but here's a breakdown of the available minutes Tyreke played at different positions over his career:
Point guard Shooting guard Small forward
2009-10 28% 37% 1%
2010-11 2% 45% 4%
2011-12 2% 53% 30%
2012-13 0% 38% 11%
Regardless of circumstances Tyreke should have developed his jumper and mid-range game if he wanted to be a star but very clearly the "organization" is also to blame for his stunted development given how he's been misused an underutilized throughout his tenure in Sacramento.
Here's the full article which is short and worth reading.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1673013-nba-teams-facing-franchise-defining-offseasons/page/7
Point guard Shooting guard Small forward
2009-10 28% 37% 1%
2010-11 2% 45% 4%
2011-12 2% 53% 30%
2012-13 0% 38% 11%
Regardless of circumstances Tyreke should have developed his jumper and mid-range game if he wanted to be a star but very clearly the "organization" is also to blame for his stunted development given how he's been misused an underutilized throughout his tenure in Sacramento.
Here's the full article which is short and worth reading.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1673013-nba-teams-facing-franchise-defining-offseasons/page/7
If I were running the team our drafts would be better!
I just don't think there are a lot of teams that want a ball dominant guard with average court vision and a jumpshot that is still being developed (after 5 years in the league). Evans hasn't proven that he would be a consistent 3rd scorer on a team. I don't believe a team would look for a guy like Evans as being their first option from the day they sign him unless they are a team looking to rebuild, and if they are looking to rebuild they have to ask themselves if Evans has done much on the Kings or has the Kings remained a lottery team every year that Evans has played for them? Bad coaches or not the Kings have not improved and I cannot see a rebuilding team investing more than 9.5mil in a non all star player who played for a bad team. Tell me why you think someone would want Evans. Tell me which team would be comfortable signing him as a 2nd-3rd option? I believe if a good team signs him it would probably be for a K-mart type role on a team coming off the bench but usually good teams are strapped for cash and wouldn't spend 10+ mil on a bench player.
I have no blind distaste for Evans. You're just using my stance that I wouldn't pay him 10mil a year as though I hate him or something. I just don't think he's worth it, but I do think he's a good BBall player.
I just don't think there are a lot of teams that want a ball dominant guard with average court vision and a jumpshot that is still being developed (after 5 years in the league). Evans hasn't proven that he would be a consistent 3rd scorer on a team. I don't believe a team would look for a guy like Evans as being their first option from the day they sign him unless they are a team looking to rebuild, and if they are looking to rebuild they have to ask themselves if Evans has done much on the Kings or has the Kings remained a lottery team every year that Evans has played for them? Bad coaches or not the Kings have not improved and I cannot see a rebuilding team investing more than 9.5mil in a non all star player who played for a bad team. Tell me why you think someone would want Evans. Tell me which team would be comfortable signing him as a 2nd-3rd option? I believe if a good team signs him it would probably be for a K-mart type role on a team coming off the bench but usually good teams are strapped for cash and wouldn't spend 10+ mil on a bench player.
I have no blind distaste for Evans. You're just using my stance that I wouldn't pay him 10mil a year as though I hate him or something. I just don't think he's worth it, but I do think he's a good BBall player.
If we let him walk, is there any guard you plan to target in the FA market?
Right now you have the following guys that can play guards.
IT/Jimmer/MT/Salmons(?)
Or you want to ride out next season with guys above?
And you know we have to spend the money to meet the min, without Reke we are sitting at 42m.
Right now you have the following guys that can play guards.
IT/Jimmer/MT/Salmons(?)
Or you want to ride out next season with guys above?
And you know we have to spend the money to meet the min, without Reke we are sitting at 42m.
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Not sure.. I would probably end up putting MT there and draft MCW, AND THEN sign a SF that can shoot rather than trying to replace MT. It would be easier to find a SF better than Salmons rather than find a SG better than MT. We shall see once players start signing. I would keep Evans if he took 9mil a year.
Here's a sampling of what GM's are paying major backcourt starters in the league (not on rookie deals):
Devin Harris 8.5M
Rajon Rondo: 11.5M
Joe Johnson: 22M
Deron Williams: 20M
Ben Gordon: 12.5M
Ramon Sessions: 5M
Derrick Rose: 18M
OJ Mayo: 4M
Ty Lawson: 12M
Andre Iguodala: 15M
Jose Calderon: 11M
Rodney Stuckey: 8.5M
Stephen Curry: 11M
Jeremy Lin: 8.5M
James Harden: 15.5M
George Hill: 8M
Chris Paul: 18M
Jamal Crawford: 5.5M
Steve Nash: 9.5M
Kobe Bryant: 28M
Mike Conley: 9M
Mario Chalmers: 4M
Dwyane Wade: 18M
Monte Ellis: 11M
JJ Redick: 6.5M
Eric Gordon: 14.5M
Raymond Felton: 3.5M
Russell Westrbook: 16M
Kevin Martin: 12M
Aaron Afflalo: 8M
Jameer Nelson: 8.5M
Jrue Holiday: 10M
Goran Dragic: 7.5M
Jared Dudley: 4.5M
Wesley Matthews: 7M
Marcus Thornton: 8M
Tony Parker: 12.5M
Manu Ginobli: 14M
Kyle Lowry: 6M
DeMarr Derozan: 9.5M
Mo Williams: 8.5M
At 8.5M (a price you said you would walk away at), Tyreke would be one of the lower paid starting backcourt guys in the league. This for a guy that even in a down year playing just above 30 minutes/game for one of the worst coaches and most dysfunctional teams, put up better numbers than most of that list. And he's 23 years old.
And with regards to the whole, he's gotten worse since his rookie season argument, here are his per 36 minute stats:
Rookie season: 19.5ppg, 5.1 rpg, 5.6 apg, 1.5 spg, .3 bpg, 2.9 tos (46%fg, 25% 3s, 75% ft)
Last season: 17.6ppg, 5.1 rpg, 4.1 apg, 1.6 spg, .5 bpg, 2.3 tos (48% fg, 34% 3s, 78% ft) This with the ball in his hands less, getting yanked around in positions and with no real team development at all.
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I would walk at 9.5 but would go as high as 9 (maybe a tad more but not over 9.5). It looks like he would be in the ballpark of a Mike Conley type salary which I am OK with. There are other players making 20mil which were definitely overpaid or paid based on production from years past.
But those salaries you had posted show that players that are comparable to Evans make about 7.5 to 11mil a year. (not talking about guys that are still on their rookie contracts) so it would be logical to start the bidding from the Kings side at about 8-9mil a year and go from there depending on how negotiations with other teams went.
But those salaries you had posted show that players that are comparable to Evans make about 7.5 to 11mil a year. (not talking about guys that are still on their rookie contracts) so it would be logical to start the bidding from the Kings side at about 8-9mil a year and go from there depending on how negotiations with other teams went.
It looks better, but Tyreke has been able to shoot better in his off season drills. It just seems that once the regular season starts in a real game situation, the improvements doesn't translate.
His shot has improved a bit this past season, but it's taken him so many years for such a small improvement. Other guys that started off with similar talents and game as Tyreke (Rose, Westbrook etc) all improved their jump shot significantly by their 3rd year.
I'm a Tyreke fan so I want him to stay on the Kings and do well and realize his potential. It seems to me that he is just dealing with the wrong "handlers". His brothers Doc and Reggie, (especially Doc), are not good enough bball guys to draft up his summer training plans for him.
Doc's partying and endless plans to party and create a record company for himself doesn't help. Tyreke is a young dude and he is going to give in to temptations very easily. I just don't believe that having relationships with multiple women and partying frequently hasn't slowed or even stopped Tyreke's growth as a bball player. He really needs to work with real coaches for a training plan and stay away from Doc and his partying. All that can wait.
His shot has improved a bit this past season, but it's taken him so many years for such a small improvement. Other guys that started off with similar talents and game as Tyreke (Rose, Westbrook etc) all improved their jump shot significantly by their 3rd year.
I'm a Tyreke fan so I want him to stay on the Kings and do well and realize his potential. It seems to me that he is just dealing with the wrong "handlers". His brothers Doc and Reggie, (especially Doc), are not good enough bball guys to draft up his summer training plans for him.
Doc's partying and endless plans to party and create a record company for himself doesn't help. Tyreke is a young dude and he is going to give in to temptations very easily. I just don't believe that having relationships with multiple women and partying frequently hasn't slowed or even stopped Tyreke's growth as a bball player. He really needs to work with real coaches for a training plan and stay away from Doc and his partying. All that can wait.
Here are stats from the season of certain young guard just before he got 16mil/year extension last year vs Reke this season (adjusted 13% for playing time difference)
Reb 4.6 vs 5.0
Ast 5.5 vs 4.0
To 3.6 vs 2.3
Stl 1.7 vs 1.6
Blk .3 vs .5
Pts 23.6 vs 17.2
3pt .9 vs .8
fg% 45.7 vs 47.8
ft% 82.3 vs 77.5
3pt% 31.6 vs 33.8
Here are the stats from another guy just before he got 16mil per year as well, compared to Reke's last season.
Reb 4.1 vs 5.3
Ast 3.7 vs 4.2
To 2.2 vs 2.4
Stl 1.0 vs 1.7
Blk .2 vs .5
Pts 16.8 vs 18.2
3pt 1.8 vs .8
fg% 49.1 vs 47.8
ft% 84.6 vs 77.5
3pt% 39.0 vs 33.8
We can all dream about Kings getting and keeping talent for cheap (yes 8-9 mil for Reke is low balling), heck dreams sometimes come true.
However, walking away from Reke when he gets 10+ mil offer would be an awful awful mistake. Ask OKC or HOU what the heck were they thinking.
You get what you pay for.
Reb 4.6 vs 5.0
Ast 5.5 vs 4.0
To 3.6 vs 2.3
Stl 1.7 vs 1.6
Blk .3 vs .5
Pts 23.6 vs 17.2
3pt .9 vs .8
fg% 45.7 vs 47.8
ft% 82.3 vs 77.5
3pt% 31.6 vs 33.8
Here are the stats from another guy just before he got 16mil per year as well, compared to Reke's last season.
Reb 4.1 vs 5.3
Ast 3.7 vs 4.2
To 2.2 vs 2.4
Stl 1.0 vs 1.7
Blk .2 vs .5
Pts 16.8 vs 18.2
3pt 1.8 vs .8
fg% 49.1 vs 47.8
ft% 84.6 vs 77.5
3pt% 39.0 vs 33.8
We can all dream about Kings getting and keeping talent for cheap (yes 8-9 mil for Reke is low balling), heck dreams sometimes come true.
However, walking away from Reke when he gets 10+ mil offer would be an awful awful mistake. Ask OKC or HOU what the heck were they thinking.
You get what you pay for.
In regards to the post above I am not going to even try to compare Evans to Westbrook. There really is no comparison.
Would you rather have Evans or Conley? Evans or Holiday? That's 9-10 million salaries right there with those two players. Holiday is better than Evans at this point so he's worth the 10mil, and Conley is the PG for the team that got into the Western Conference finals. How about Curry? He makes 11mil..
You would call the 9mil that Conley got a ripoff for Conley or a fair deal for him considering what he does for Memphis? And remember, Conley is one of the best defenders at his position as well as being a pretty decent PG in terms of getting people involved with the flow of the offense.
Would you rather have Evans or Conley? Evans or Holiday? That's 9-10 million salaries right there with those two players. Holiday is better than Evans at this point so he's worth the 10mil, and Conley is the PG for the team that got into the Western Conference finals. How about Curry? He makes 11mil..
You would call the 9mil that Conley got a ripoff for Conley or a fair deal for him considering what he does for Memphis? And remember, Conley is one of the best defenders at his position as well as being a pretty decent PG in terms of getting people involved with the flow of the offense.
First the easy one, 9 mil for Conley was done 3 years ago. Different time and different player at that time. Conley that signed contract for 9 mil was nowhere near the player Reke is today.
Another easy one.... Curry got the max he could considering that Warriors were smart and offered an early extension and he chose to sign it.
Jrue is tricky, he is in the category of Tyreke today. It will be tough choice and boils down to what individual believes about Tyreke's potential. That being said, his contract has incentives that push this to 11.5mil range. That might be the way to go with Reke. How is Jrue's defense?
Another easy one.... Curry got the max he could considering that Warriors were smart and offered an early extension and he chose to sign it.
Jrue is tricky, he is in the category of Tyreke today. It will be tough choice and boils down to what individual believes about Tyreke's potential. That being said, his contract has incentives that push this to 11.5mil range. That might be the way to go with Reke. How is Jrue's defense?
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lol, I would take Harden today vs rookie Reke 
Take away 3pt shooting (big takeaway) and you have rookie and 4th year veteran head to head in all categories... with Reke being, arguably, better defender than Harden.
What would happen if Reke is unleashed today... nobody can know, but bet stats would not be worse than when he was rookie.
Take away 3pt shooting (big takeaway) and you have rookie and 4th year veteran head to head in all categories... with Reke being, arguably, better defender than Harden.
What would happen if Reke is unleashed today... nobody can know, but bet stats would not be worse than when he was rookie.
My point is that you will see salaries up there that are just ludicrous and shouldn't even be mentioned for someone with Evans talent level (i.e. 15mil a year) and then you have guys that are making 4mil a year or that are still on rookie contracts who are in the same talent tier as Evans. Then you have the guys like Conley (9 mil 3 years ago isn't much less than 9mil this year), Jrue, and Curry who are all making about the correct salary for their talent. Evans falls somewhere in there. 9mil to 11mil a year.
If I were the GM though I would wait and see what he's offered because maybe you could get a good deal, but if it's past 9.5 then I would probably let him walk.
If I were the GM though I would wait and see what he's offered because maybe you could get a good deal, but if it's past 9.5 then I would probably let him walk.
Fair comments, that is why in all my examples I was picking players-guards that were in as similar situation as possible as Reke.
Namely: recent contracts (after new rules), guards, production they had when signed contract, situation they were in when they signed...
For example, Conley getting 9 mil 3 years ago for what he was showing at that time would be making case that Reke should be getting much more than that.
I agree that if I were GM I would wait and see what is offered.
We differ for when to get out of bidding. I do not see how can Kings get any talent comparable to Reke's for 11mil. Can you give me some name that you think Kings can get for that money that is at least Reke's level?
Namely: recent contracts (after new rules), guards, production they had when signed contract, situation they were in when they signed...
For example, Conley getting 9 mil 3 years ago for what he was showing at that time would be making case that Reke should be getting much more than that.
I agree that if I were GM I would wait and see what is offered.
We differ for when to get out of bidding. I do not see how can Kings get any talent comparable to Reke's for 11mil. Can you give me some name that you think Kings can get for that money that is at least Reke's level?
This is Sacramento. You don't let him walk even at $10+ (you do at max obviously). Because you as Sacramento can NOT ever sign a replacement talent at that level without an even more vast overpay. Sacramento is a free agent wasteland. The best free agent in team history averaged 10.4pts and 8.1 reb the year before the Kings signed him for $10+mil a year. To acquire Reke level talents the Sacramento franchise either has to get lucky in the draft, or badly win trades. So if you want to compete with the franchises who have other means of getting talents at that level, you have to hold onto every major talent you get your hands on. Failure to do so puts you an eternal merry-go-round to nowhere.
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