The other factor is how much those fans that don't like Evans hold his first year against him. Take that out and it looks like a very young guy getting ready to emerge with a good coach and team (a la joe Johnson). Instead they point out that he hasn't developed while ignoring how much the cluster f around here has impacted his abilities.
Tyreke Jumpshot
- Thread starter HereWeBoogie
- Start date
First, I would point out that most posters around here seem to be hoping Evans will sign for $10-11 million (many get a lot more reluctant higher than that). I would point out hat Kevin Marin made $13 million this season, Calderon made $11 million. Now while they won't likely get that kind of money next season, asking them to drop to $6-8 million might be a reach. Tony Allen might be an easier sell (made $3.3 this year and is 31), but would be hard to pry away from Memphis. He is also primarily a defensive player (not on the talent level of Tyreke IMO). As for Teague, it will be interesting to see what kind of money he gets. I have never been much of a fan but he is coming off his best season (and his rookie contract). His qualifying offer will be $3.4 million, which means he will likely be looking for something starting in the $8-10 million range IMO. Once again, I would rather have Tyreke.
Lest I be misunderstood, I'm not saying that, if I were PDA, and Evans' agent came to me before I could make an offer and said something like, "Tyreke wants to stay in Sacramento, he wants to get this done. Offer him 6-yr/$54M, and it's a done deal," that I wouldn't be all over that. What I'm saying is that, if his agent said the same thing, except that he wanted 6-yr/$66M, my reaction would not be to say, "Tell your client that I wish him the best of luck."
I might try to get him to take 4+1 (team option), but I'd pay him the money.
I might try to get him to take 4+1 (team option), but I'd pay him the money.
There's another aspect here which hasn't been mentioned. Some are acting like if Reke signed for 10-12M and didn't improve much, that he'd suddenly become unmovable. It would not be a Salmons/Kenny Thomas type scenario. Guys in their early to mid 20's who have Reke's skillset, even if he doesn't improve much and puts up his career averages of roughly 18/5/5 and shoots 33% from 3, that is a guy people would still take a chance on. He'd still be a commodity to some.
Players who put up 18/5/5 are rare, usually no more than 5 guys in the league each year do it. It's just truly mindboggling how some don't recognize the talent and instead focus on Reke on the fastbreak or that he's not a 38%+ 3pt shooter, as if it tells nearly the story.
Players who put up 18/5/5 are rare, usually no more than 5 guys in the league each year do it. It's just truly mindboggling how some don't recognize the talent and instead focus on Reke on the fastbreak or that he's not a 38%+ 3pt shooter, as if it tells nearly the story.
As I admitted when I first mentioned it, I rounded up: Evans' official career averages are 17.5/4.8/4.8. Here's a list of all of the active NBA players with career numbers of 17.5/4.8/4.8 or better:
Am I contending that Evans is in the same class as those other four guys? Of course not, don't be ****ing ridiculous. But some guys make this kid out to be overrated, and a scrub, and it ain't so, by a factor of a lot.
EDIT - Also, FWIW, Evans has a better career FG% than Westbrook.
- LeBron James
- Kobe Bryant
- Dwyane Wade
- Russell Westbrook
- Tyreke Evans
Am I contending that Evans is in the same class as those other four guys? Of course not, don't be ****ing ridiculous. But some guys make this kid out to be overrated, and a scrub, and it ain't so, by a factor of a lot.
EDIT - Also, FWIW, Evans has a better career FG% than Westbrook.
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Here are the per 36 stats for the best guards (all stars) of the last 10 or so years at age 23:
Tyreke Evans: 17.6 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 4.1 apg, 1.6 spg, 0.5 bpg (48%fg, 34% 3s, 78% ft) 22% usage, 13.7 shots/game
Clearly more productive
Kobe Bryant: 23.7 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 5.1 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.4 bpg (47% fg, 25% 3's, 83% ft) 30% usage, 19 shots/game
Kyrie Irving (age 20): 23 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 6.2 apg, 1.6 spg, 0.4 bpg (45% fg, 39% 3's, 89% ft) 30% usage, 19 shots/game
Vince Carter: 24 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 3.7 apg, 1.3 spg, 1.1 bpg (46% fg, 40% 3's 79% ft) 30% usage, 20 shots/game
Russell Westbrook: 24 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 5.6 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.3 bpg (45% fg, 31% 3's, 81% ft) 33% usage, 20 shots/game
James Harden: 24 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 5.5 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.5 bpg (44% fg, 37% 3's, 85% ft) 29% usage, 16 shots/game
Dwyane Wade: 22.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 6.3 apg, 1.5 spg, 1.0 bpg (48% fg, 29% 3s, 76% ft) 31% usage, 16 shots/game
Tony Parker: 20.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 6.1 apg, 1.1 spg, 0.1 bpg (55% fg, 30% 3's, 71% ft) 27% usage, 15 shots/game
Chris Paul: 21 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 10.3 apg, 2.6 spg, 0.1 bpg (50% fg, 36% 3's, 87% ft) 28% usage, 15 shots/game
Deron Williams: 18.2 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 10.4 apg, 1.0 spg, 0.1 bpg (50% fg, 39% 3's, 80% ft) 23% usage, 14 shots/game
Derrick Rose: 22 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 8.0 apg, 0.9 spg, 0.7 bpg (43% fg, 31% 3's, 81% ft) 31% usage, 18 shots/game
Same level or worse
Steve Nash: 14.5ppg, 3.2 rpg, 6.2 apg, 1.0 spg, 0.1 bpg (37% fg, 37% 3's, 83% ft) 14% usage, 13 shots/game
Manu Ginobili (age 25): 13.2 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 3.5 apg, 2.4 spg, 0.4 bpg (43% fg, 34% 3's, 74% ft), 19% usage, 10 shots/game
Rip Hamilton: 20.6 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 2.8 apg, 0.6 spg, 0.2 bpg (44% fg, 38% 3's, 89% ft) 29% usage, 18 shots/game
Chauncey Billups: 13.4 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 4.6 apg, 1.2 spg, 0.2 bpg (39% fg, 36% 3's, 91% ft) 21% usage, 12 shots/game
Joe Johnson: 15.6 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.2 apg, 0.9 spg, 0.3 bpg (46% fg, 47% 3's, 79% ft) 19% usage, 13 shots/game
Brandon Roy: 18.3 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 5.5 apg, 1.0 spg, 0.2 bpg (45% fg, 35% 3's, 75% ft) 25% usage, 15 shots/game
Gilbert Arenas: 22.5 ppg, 4 rpg, 4.5 apg, 1.5 spg, 0.5 bpg (43% fg, 37% 3's, 81% ft) 27% usage, 17 shots/game
Rajon Rondo: 13.5 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 9.4 apg, 2.4 spg, 0.1 bpg (50% fg, 21% 3's, 61% ft) 21% usage, 13 shots/game
Andre Iguodala: 16 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 5.1 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.4 bpg (44% fg, 31% 3's, 82% ft) 23% usage, 12 shots/game
Stephen Curry: 18.8 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 6.8 apg, 1.9 spg, 0.4 bpg (49% fg, 45% 3's, 81% ft) 24% usage, 15 shots/game
Jason Kidd: 11 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 9 apg, 2 spg, .4 bpg (40% fg, 32% 3's, 68% ft) 18% usage, 10 shots/game
I didn't include the other all-stars like Jameer Nelson, Mo Williams, Devin Harris who Evans is clearly better than or guards that never made all star teams but were also less productive than Evans at 23 (Ellis, Baron Davis, KMart, JRich, etc)
So in the last decade, arguably only 10 guards or so(pg or sg) have had more productive seasons at such a young age and almost all of them played:
-with good to great coaches
-on stable franchises
-with good veterans
-played one natural position
-had the ball in their hands more
-got more shots
You don't give up on 23 year olds that have put up the numbers Evans has with the disadvantages he's endured.
Tyreke Evans: 17.6 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 4.1 apg, 1.6 spg, 0.5 bpg (48%fg, 34% 3s, 78% ft) 22% usage, 13.7 shots/game
Clearly more productive
Kobe Bryant: 23.7 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 5.1 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.4 bpg (47% fg, 25% 3's, 83% ft) 30% usage, 19 shots/game
Kyrie Irving (age 20): 23 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 6.2 apg, 1.6 spg, 0.4 bpg (45% fg, 39% 3's, 89% ft) 30% usage, 19 shots/game
Vince Carter: 24 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 3.7 apg, 1.3 spg, 1.1 bpg (46% fg, 40% 3's 79% ft) 30% usage, 20 shots/game
Russell Westbrook: 24 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 5.6 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.3 bpg (45% fg, 31% 3's, 81% ft) 33% usage, 20 shots/game
James Harden: 24 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 5.5 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.5 bpg (44% fg, 37% 3's, 85% ft) 29% usage, 16 shots/game
Dwyane Wade: 22.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 6.3 apg, 1.5 spg, 1.0 bpg (48% fg, 29% 3s, 76% ft) 31% usage, 16 shots/game
Tony Parker: 20.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 6.1 apg, 1.1 spg, 0.1 bpg (55% fg, 30% 3's, 71% ft) 27% usage, 15 shots/game
Chris Paul: 21 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 10.3 apg, 2.6 spg, 0.1 bpg (50% fg, 36% 3's, 87% ft) 28% usage, 15 shots/game
Deron Williams: 18.2 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 10.4 apg, 1.0 spg, 0.1 bpg (50% fg, 39% 3's, 80% ft) 23% usage, 14 shots/game
Derrick Rose: 22 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 8.0 apg, 0.9 spg, 0.7 bpg (43% fg, 31% 3's, 81% ft) 31% usage, 18 shots/game
Same level or worse
Steve Nash: 14.5ppg, 3.2 rpg, 6.2 apg, 1.0 spg, 0.1 bpg (37% fg, 37% 3's, 83% ft) 14% usage, 13 shots/game
Manu Ginobili (age 25): 13.2 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 3.5 apg, 2.4 spg, 0.4 bpg (43% fg, 34% 3's, 74% ft), 19% usage, 10 shots/game
Rip Hamilton: 20.6 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 2.8 apg, 0.6 spg, 0.2 bpg (44% fg, 38% 3's, 89% ft) 29% usage, 18 shots/game
Chauncey Billups: 13.4 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 4.6 apg, 1.2 spg, 0.2 bpg (39% fg, 36% 3's, 91% ft) 21% usage, 12 shots/game
Joe Johnson: 15.6 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.2 apg, 0.9 spg, 0.3 bpg (46% fg, 47% 3's, 79% ft) 19% usage, 13 shots/game
Brandon Roy: 18.3 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 5.5 apg, 1.0 spg, 0.2 bpg (45% fg, 35% 3's, 75% ft) 25% usage, 15 shots/game
Gilbert Arenas: 22.5 ppg, 4 rpg, 4.5 apg, 1.5 spg, 0.5 bpg (43% fg, 37% 3's, 81% ft) 27% usage, 17 shots/game
Rajon Rondo: 13.5 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 9.4 apg, 2.4 spg, 0.1 bpg (50% fg, 21% 3's, 61% ft) 21% usage, 13 shots/game
Andre Iguodala: 16 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 5.1 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.4 bpg (44% fg, 31% 3's, 82% ft) 23% usage, 12 shots/game
Stephen Curry: 18.8 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 6.8 apg, 1.9 spg, 0.4 bpg (49% fg, 45% 3's, 81% ft) 24% usage, 15 shots/game
Jason Kidd: 11 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 9 apg, 2 spg, .4 bpg (40% fg, 32% 3's, 68% ft) 18% usage, 10 shots/game
I didn't include the other all-stars like Jameer Nelson, Mo Williams, Devin Harris who Evans is clearly better than or guards that never made all star teams but were also less productive than Evans at 23 (Ellis, Baron Davis, KMart, JRich, etc)
So in the last decade, arguably only 10 guards or so(pg or sg) have had more productive seasons at such a young age and almost all of them played:
-with good to great coaches
-on stable franchises
-with good veterans
-played one natural position
-had the ball in their hands more
-got more shots
You don't give up on 23 year olds that have put up the numbers Evans has with the disadvantages he's endured.
Well, you at least don't give up on him until you're damn sure he can't be successful with a supporting cast which fits and under a quality coach. Especially not in this market where we have yet to draft or sign a guard as talented as Reke, ever. Same goes for Cuz, you make damn sure he won't be a success and won't be one of the top 3 bigs in the league for years before moving him, as as with Reke, we've never drafted a big as talented or acquired one as talented as a FA.
And if these two are easy to replace as some freely suggest, then why didn't we draft or sign players as talented when being terrible for well over a decade before our golden era, and why didn't we simply acquire guys as or more talented since 06? Oh that's right, because we have no history whatsoever of being able to attract similar talent. Instead I'm hearing names like Calderon and Teague thrown around, which falls in line with the reality that we simply can't attract top talent, never have attracted top talent, can't suddenly plan on that changing, and when we do luck out and get talent like Reke/Cuz, you do everything to help them succeed prior to shipping them out, and no, stacking a backcourt with IT/Jimmer/Brooks/Cisco does not accomplish that, nor does getting 6'6" Chuck Hayes to replace Daly and going into yet another season with little rim protection accomplish that. The coaching issue is obviously a part too as well as our poor spot up shooters.
Looking at the list of guys who also put up 18/5/5, on thing that really should jump out is the other four, Wade/Kobe/Lebron/WB all are surrounded by good shooters and are on rosters where the role players fit. If we had a good coach, a balanced roster and Reke/Cuz surrounded by shooters and Reke simply wasn't improving at all and it just wasn't working, it'd be a different discussion. But the roster/coach/supporting cast/balance makes a huge difference. Just ask Wade when he didn't make the playoffs, ask Kobe when he didn't make the playoffs either.
And if these two are easy to replace as some freely suggest, then why didn't we draft or sign players as talented when being terrible for well over a decade before our golden era, and why didn't we simply acquire guys as or more talented since 06? Oh that's right, because we have no history whatsoever of being able to attract similar talent. Instead I'm hearing names like Calderon and Teague thrown around, which falls in line with the reality that we simply can't attract top talent, never have attracted top talent, can't suddenly plan on that changing, and when we do luck out and get talent like Reke/Cuz, you do everything to help them succeed prior to shipping them out, and no, stacking a backcourt with IT/Jimmer/Brooks/Cisco does not accomplish that, nor does getting 6'6" Chuck Hayes to replace Daly and going into yet another season with little rim protection accomplish that. The coaching issue is obviously a part too as well as our poor spot up shooters.
Looking at the list of guys who also put up 18/5/5, on thing that really should jump out is the other four, Wade/Kobe/Lebron/WB all are surrounded by good shooters and are on rosters where the role players fit. If we had a good coach, a balanced roster and Reke/Cuz surrounded by shooters and Reke simply wasn't improving at all and it just wasn't working, it'd be a different discussion. But the roster/coach/supporting cast/balance makes a huge difference. Just ask Wade when he didn't make the playoffs, ask Kobe when he didn't make the playoffs either.
If Tyreke played for OKC (and Westbrook for the Kings), I would bet most around here would be saying the same things about Westbrook as they currently do about Tyreke (and how OKC wouldn't dream of trading for him straight across for Tyreke because he is so much better). It is the "grass is always greener" syndrome.
Good to see Reke doing work, but also getting to know Malone. Hope he gets resigned.
Jonathan Santiago @itsjonsantiago13h
Tyreke chopping it up w/ Coach Malone. Looks like they're starting to build the relationship already. #SacKings pic.twitter.com/zQtksMAUab
Jonathan Santiago @itsjonsantiago13h
Tyreke chopping it up w/ Coach Malone. Looks like they're starting to build the relationship already. #SacKings pic.twitter.com/zQtksMAUab
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