Team a work in progress/booing (merged)

[Gtronic]

I understadn this team is a work in progress. I understand it's going to take 20-30 games to gel.

But what i don't understand is the lack of effert. I was upset last night, very upset. I waited all day for the game, got my jersesy on, moved the coffee table (for safty reasons), all to watch a team that looks like they would rather be somewhere else.

No desire, no energy, no effeft. Sad to say this, but if i was at Arco last night i would have booed too.

 

[Jerryaki]

i agree. where's the effort from them? where's the heart?

as proficient as they have the potential to be, this team, and this "core" do not have that drive in them.

 

[VF21]

Where's the leadership? This team is a ship without a rudder.

Sure, they'll start calling for Adelman's head - like dear Voisin has already today - but that's not going to solve the problem.

IMHO the team has NO player that is a leader; they're all followers and right now they're trying to follow each other. That is not good...

 

[piksi]

I know - I am quoting someone but I don't remember the name


"It will get much worse before it gets better"

 

[Variant]

Second what VF said. We have a whole bunch of role players. Good role players albeit, but no real leader that they all respect and whose example they follow.

Bibby can lead with his play sometimes, but it's not enough.

As flawed as they were sometimes, we're really seeing how important Vlade and CWebb were.

We really do need to get KG here somehow

 

[nbrans]

Where's the leadership? This team is a ship without a rudder.

Sure, they'll start calling for Adelman's head - like dear Voisin has already today - but that's not going to solve the problem.

IMHO the team has NO player that is a leader; they're all followers and right now they're trying to follow each other. That is not good...

Agree completely. I don't know what is going on inside the locker room, but by watching the players it doesn't seem like there's anyone holding everyone else accountable. The great thing about Adelman as a coach is that he doesn't micro-manage and he gives players the latitude to play well without fear of getting benched. The downside of that style is that he's not the best coach if you need to kick some lazy point guard butt.

My finger is circling the panic button, and I'm very close to pressing it.

 

[Wuster]

I understadn this team is a work in progress. I understand it's going to take 20-30 games to gel.

But what i don't understand is the lack of effert. I was upset last night, very upset. I waited all day for the game, got my jersesy on, moved the coffee table (for safty reasons), all to watch a team that looks like they would rather be somewhere else.

No desire, no energy, no effeft. Sad to say this, but if i was at Arco last night i would have booed too.

Gtronic, I WAS at Arco last night. The periodic chorus of boos I heard was absolutely deserved. My 2 tickets cost $180, plus parking, food, etc. So, for my $240, what did I get? A sub-par performance at best, by a bunch of guys whose hearts were not in it. What a generally lousy product and a rip off! Frankly, if the Kings lose at Arco, I'm bummed out but can handle it if they play well and with energy - like professionals. But there is no excuse for lack of effort and what they showed me last night. ARGGGHHH!

 

[VF21]

As flawed as they were sometimes, we're really seeing how important Vlade and CWebb were...

And Doug... and even Bobby.

 

[Diabeticwonder]

Through 7 games so far I cannot think of one time when I thought that Mike was living up to his statement of how he is the leader of the team. The lack of a leader on this team is definately one of the biggest problems, however, all of these guys are professionals and it shouldn't take a so called "leader" to inspire them to play with heart and intensity. Part of that responsibility has to be shouldered by the coach.

 

[kingsfan916]

It looks to me that SAR and Peja are the only ones playing.

 

[VF21]

Diabeticwonder - The coach isn't PART of the team. He's on the outside. My point is that there is not ONE player that truly epitomizes leadership, heart, desire, courage, intensity, etc.

They are all hens. There isn't a rooster in the bunch...

 

[Diabeticwonder]

Diabeticwonder - The coach isn't PART of the team. He's on the outside. My point is that there is not ONE player that truly epitomizes leadership, heart, desire, courage, intensity, etc.

They are all hens. There isn't a rooster in the bunch...

VF-I agree with you that "there isn't a rooster in the bunch." However, while I think Rick has done an incredible job here over the years I also think that some of the lack of motivation and heart is attributable to the coach or perhaps to the inability of the players to be won over by the coach.

 

[SacTownKid]

Where's the leadership? This team is a ship without a rudder.

Sure, they'll start calling for Adelman's head - like dear Voisin has already today - but that's not going to solve the problem.

IMHO the team has NO player that is a leader; they're all followers and right now they're trying to follow each other. That is not good...

As positive as I am sometimes, and as much as I don't want to believe it, I don't think Adelman has control over his players anymore. If he says that he tells them what to do and they don't do it, like he has stated, then its a disturbing possibility that they just don't listen to him anymore.

I just hope thats not the case.

 

[VF21]

I'm not going to disagree that Rick Adelman, for whatever reason, is no longer the coach he was - I just disagree that it's he who has changed.

Regardless, it's only a matter of time before he's gone and I hope the majority of Kings fans will at least have the common sense and good manners to thank him for all the good instead of assigning all the blame for our recent woes to him.

SOMETHING drastic has to be done. It will start, most likely, with the removal of Rick Adelman. And then the final real tie to the glory days will be gone...and I'll feel sad for what almost was.

Our team is broken into little tiny pieces. It's not going to be easy to rebuild it and it's not going to be a quick fix.

Get ready for a long bumpy ride, fellow Kings fans. Your loyalty and dedication to this team we all profess to love is about to be tested more severely than a lot of you have ever experienced.

It's easy to love a winning team. It's a lot harder to love a team that is floundering...

 

[SacTownKid]

I'm not going to disagree that Rick Adelman, for whatever reason, is no longer the coach he was - I just disagree that it's he who has changed.

Regardless, it's only a matter of time before he's gone and I hope the majority of Kings fans will at least have the common sense and good manners to thank him for all the good instead of assigning all the blame for our recent woes to him.

SOMETHING drastic has to be done. It will start, most likely, with the removal of Rick Adelman. And then the final real tie to the glory days will be gone...and I'll feel sad for what almost was.

Our team is broken into little tiny pieces. It's not going to be easy to rebuild it and it's not going to be a quick fix.

Get ready for a long bumpy ride, fellow Kings fans. Your loyalty and dedication to this team we all profess to love is about to be tested more severely than a lot of you have ever experienced.

It's easy to love a winning team. It's a lot harder to love a team that is floundering...

Especially one that is far exceeding the projected levels of crappiness. This team is MUCH better than this. I will always believe that, whether they turn it around or not. I still have faith that if everything can come together, which it can!, this team will compete with anybody.

 

[Bricklayer]

1) we don't have 20-30 games. We really don't. I'm not even sure we have 15 before the fur is going to fly. And there's really good and bad to that -- the good is that we have become a franchise that doesn't tolerate losing; the bad is that we may have become a franchise with unrealistic expectatiosn still living in the shadow of great teams and players now long gone.

2) re: Rick and leadership -- there may be an issue here. What Rick has really excelled at over his career is having no ego and getting the hell out of the way of players who did, and who WERE "roosters". Its where so many coaches fail in the NBA -- they want to insist on being the leader themselves in a league full of players who want that mantle. But now our milksop GM has combined a milksop coahc with an entire team full of milksop players, and that does not work. When we had leadership ON the court, the LAST thing we needed was some yelling screaming egomaniac idiot over on the sidelines to cause conflict and a team revolt. Now that we have nothing but followers and kids on the team, all of a sudden having that leadership come from the sidelines would be a real boon. bereft of leaders on the court, our last best chance is the guy on the sideline. But its not what he does (and it does not help that the Maloofs have lame-ducked him).

 

[chelle]

I'm not going to disagree that Rick Adelman, for whatever reason, is no longer the coach he was - I just disagree that it's he who has changed.

Regardless, it's only a matter of time before he's gone and I hope the majority of Kings fans will at least have the common sense and good manners to thank him for all the good instead of assigning all the blame for our recent woes to him.

SOMETHING drastic has to be done. It will start, most likely, with the removal of Rick Adelman. And then the final real tie to the glory days will be gone...and I'll feel sad for what almost was.

Our team is broken into little tiny pieces. It's not going to be easy to rebuild it and it's not going to be a quick fix.

Get ready for a long bumpy ride, fellow Kings fans. Your loyalty and dedication to this team we all profess to love is about to be tested more severely than a lot of you have ever experienced.

It's easy to love a winning team. It's a lot harder to love a team that is floundering...

I completely agree and that makes me VERY sad.

 

[danadime]

Especially one that is far exceeding the projected levels of crappiness. This team is MUCH better than this. I will always believe that, whether they turn it around or not. I still have faith that if everything can come together, which it can!, this team will compete with anybody.

Absolutely agree. Behind the Detroit Pistons, I can't think of a better starting 5 on paper. It's just putting it all together at game time and becoming a team and playing together. In my mind, we're as good as anybody. But if we only win 30 games this year I'll still love this team.

 

[Bricklayer]

Absolutely agree. Behind the Detroit Pistons, I can't think of a better starting 5 on paper. It's just putting it all together at game time and becoming a team and playing together. In my mind, we're as good as anybody. But if we only win 30 games this year I'll still love this team.

Games are not won on paper!

This has been the fallacy from the beginning with this lineup -- we aren't playing fantasy basketball. We are mismatched and unbalanced. Too many scorers, not enough of everything else. This type of "team" has failed time and time again around the league. This isn't a new problem we are having. Its a very old one. We should be better than 2-5 but we are NOT as good as "any team in the league", or even close.

Being Sacto fans has at some point made us seemingly solely concerned with ppg as an indicator of talent. That is wrong. Passing is talent. Rebounding is talent. Defense is talent. Heart/leadership/competitiveness may not be talent, but it is also critical. Expand the definition of "talent" to include all of those things that actually help you win along with our favored scoring stats, and all of a sudden we are NOT that special. And certianly not in the same league as the best teams.

 

[AleksandarN]

Where's the leadership? This team is a ship without a rudder.

Sure, they'll start calling for Adelman's head - like dear Voisin has already today - but that's not going to solve the problem.

IMHO the team has NO player that is a leader; they're all followers and right now they're trying to follow each other. That is not good...

But isn't it the coaches job to lead especailly since we have a leadership void on our team.

 

[Bricklayer]

But isn't it the coaches job to lead especailly since we have a leadership void on our team.

It could be with this crew.

One of the real problems that scuttles MANY coaches in the NBA is their INSISTENCE on being the leader, on being the show, in a league full of gronw men many of whom want that title themselves.

But Geoff has done a remarkable thing now, taking "mild mannered" to ridiculous heights in the makeup of our team. And suddenly maybe a coach that was a leader might be the right way to go -- I'm not sure half our players even have a pulse, let alone passion/fire.

Just knowing the histories of some of the personalities we have, I do wonder if a coach who was a "leader" would even be able to reach them. I suspect some would ignore him (SAR, Bibby). Some might rebel (Bonzi). I think Brad, Mike and Bonzi would respond better to a plyer in that role. Don't think SAR responds either way. Peja apparently can't deal with the player/leader, assume a coach works better for him. In any case, if its a coach, would need to be somebody pretty special.

 

[captain bill]

2) re: Rick and leadership -- there may be an issue here. What Rick has really excelled at over his career is having no ego and getting the hell out of the way of players who did, and who WERE "roosters". Its where so many coaches fail in the NBA -- they want to insist on being the leader themselves in a league full of players who want that mantle. But now our milksop GM has combined a milksop coahc with an entire team full of milksop players, and that does not work. When we had leadership ON the court, the LAST thing we needed was some yelling screaming egomaniac idiot over on the sidelines to cause conflict and a team revolt. Now that we have nothing but followers and kids on the team, all of a sudden having that leadership come from the sidelines would be a real boon. bereft of leaders on the court, our last best chance is the guy on the sideline. But its not what he does (and it does not help that the Maloofs have lame-ducked him).

I agree- Adleman and this team simply do not mesh. Additionally, if I were Adelman, I would have absolutely no desire to return to Sac after the way he has been treated. For everything that is going, Rick simply needs to go. But I will never say that he is a bad coach, that he can't win, or that I just don't like him. He's a great coach and he has done so much for this franchise that he can never be thanked enough. But sometimes, a coach, even a HOF coach, needs to go. Tenures should only last so long. Either players get tired of a coach's mantra after all the years and stop responding (maybe Mike, Peja, even Brad) or, more likely, a new crop of players doesn't respond to the coach in the same way as the old players. The franchise is changing as a whole, and the coach should change to. Rick was great with Chris, Doug, Vlade and Bobby, guys like JWill too, but this is a whole different deal now. It's time for Rick to go, but not to be forgotten or run out of town, as the Maloofs, and much of the fanbase and media, are doing now. Rick and the team need to part ways as old friends, not rivals. If I could, I would thank Rick for everything, just as every player who has passed on, but his time has come, too. Hell, maybe we need a losing year or two, remember what we had, before we start rebuilding. This transition stuff is really just ruining what was built before. Turn of the lights in Arco, folks. Let's start over from the ground up, literally. Let this team suck for 3 years, build a new arena and reopen the Kings, better than they ever were before.

Because this certainly isn't working.

 

[AleksandarN]

It could be with this crew.

One of the real problems that scuttles MANY coaches in the NBA is their INSISTENCE on being the leader, on being the show, in a league full of gronw men many of whom want that title themselves.

But Geoff has done a remarkable thing now, taking "mild mannered" to ridiculous heights in the makeup of our team. And suddenly maybe a coach that was a leader might be the right way to go -- I'm not sure half our players even have a pulse, let alone passion/fire.

Just knowing the histories of some of the personalities we have, I do wonder if a coach who was a "leader" would even be able to reach them. I suspect some would ignore him (SAR, Bibby). Some might rebel (Bonzi). I think Brad, Mike and Bonzi would respond better to a plyer in that role. Don't think SAR responds either way. Peja apparently can't deal with the player/leader, assume a coach works better for him. In any case, if its a coach, would need to be somebody pretty special.

The Maloofs tried to get him in the summer remember? And you know what happen after.

 

[BibityBobtyBoom]

i say trade em all.

 

[Bricklayer]

The Maloofs tried to get him in the summer remember? And you know what happen after.

Not sure I ever bought that Zen crap. PJ CAUSES trouble. His teams have NEVER had good chemistry. Just great talent to overcome.

And I hardly think you could say that Jackson has shown any ability to lead teams without forceful personalities anyway. He's never had to. he's been blessed with some of the greatest competitors in the history of the sport driving themselves and their teammates ON the court. He just had to sit back and watch and trb to keep his own hefty ego out of the way. No idea at all what he'd do if presented with a bunch of school librarians and nursemaids.

In any case, we DO need leadership. From somebody. Anybody. My own personal opinon remains that Geoff may in fact be "scared" of strong personalities, not having one himself. May like flatline personalities so much that he's taken it too far in his acquisition of them. Alternate theory to that is that he or the Maloofs are scared that Sacramento cannot handle stong personalities, in particular off of the Webber thing. And so they have put together the most innocuous team they could possibly find. But in the process they may have shipped out or suppressed every ounce of competitive fire they once had.

What I know for sure is that our current crew would be chewed up and spit out in little odious puddles by fans in Philly, or New York etc. And so I pray to the mythological holy being that we aren't pandering to what is perceived to be a too delicate audience, or to a too delicate GM.

 

[AleksandarN]

Hey Phil did lead and guide he teams he coached on, yes he had superstars to him along the way. but he still commanded the other players on the team. He brings out the best in people majority of the time.

 

[VF21]

This isn't about Phil Jackson, who was NEVER serious about coming to Sacramento... and certainly wouldn't touch the Kings coaching job with a ten-foot pole at this point.

As far as a stopgap coach goes, I strongly suspect the edge has to go to Elston Turner.

 

[AleksandarN]

This isn't about Phil Jackson, who was NEVER serious about coming to Sacramento... and certainly wouldn't touch the Kings coaching job with a ten-foot pole at this point.

.

We may not be talking about Phil but what we are really talking about is a coach will be able to lead this leaderless team which ofcourse is whatthe Maloofs tried this last offseason.

 

[Bricklayer]

We may not be talking about Phil but what we are really talking about is a coach will be able to lead this leaderless team which ofcourse is whatthe Maloofs tried this last offseason.

The Maloofs tried that before we even knew what this team was going to look like. So its nto as if it was in response to anything.

Nor were the Maloofs making a move for a "leader". They were making a move for a name. Or at least one of them was (it was apparently joe's idea without consulting Gavin). I suspect as much their shallowness and love of glam and flash as any assessment of basketball needs.

 

[VF21]

We may not be talking about Phil but what we are really talking about is a coach will be able to lead this leaderless team which ofcourse is whatthe Maloofs tried this last offseason.

Whatever.

The Maloofs made fools of themselves by fawning after Phil Jackson. He was NOT going to come to Sacramento. If they had read his book, they would have known that. If they had bothered to talk with Petrie, they would have known that. They did neither apparently. Instead, they chased after a castle in the sky, alienated a certain percentage of the fan base and pretty much insulted a coach who took their team from anonymity to an OT game 7 of the WCF.

And I don't agree that it's a matter of finding a coach to lead. You need leaders from within. Platoon leaders, class leaders, etc. People who lead from within as part of the group.

I agree with Bricklayer. Phil Jackson is NOT a leader in the sense of the word most of us are talking about. He's a coach. You don't elect a teacher as class president; you don't select a coach as team leader. True leadership that players will follow generally comes from within, not from without.