[SAS/NOH] - who will Bowen injure now ?

[Dave McNulla]

Backing into another player is not necessarily "trampling" them. Dave, do you really not see how biased your argument is? You are reaching for straws left and right.

unless you think west is made of straw, then my argument is not made of 'straws'. my argument is horry leaned a little bit forward the way any sane person would who has to stand their ground when a guy that much bigger is coming at them. if horry would not have, he would have been knocked back and i'd be reading about what a flopper he is.

 

[Showtime]

considering that horry's feet were planted and west was moving, i just can't see how anybody would consider that dirty. i looked at the replay over and over. there is nothing to it.

it doesn't matter how much you love or hate the spurs. the play stands for itself. west moved into horry. horry leaned a little bit forward to brace for a collision that he could see coming, but west was the guy moving even if it was backwards.

Because Horry was leaning so much, it was called a foul. If it's a foul, then it's illegal. If it's illegal, then why does Horry, in that situation, do that?

Any pick that is set like that is going to be called a foul. He's leaning so far into West that he's standing on his toes. There's a difference between bracing oneself to absorb impact and leaning your weight into a guy to maximize impact.

I think Horry leaned too far, and knew what he was doing, but West jumping just exacerbated the hit.

Here's a good hard pick:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkK-DhdpLuo

Gray stands straight up.

We have seen Brad Miller set hard picks, yet he doesn't have to lean like that, even when he braces for impact. Horry is 6'10'' 240lb, so it's not like he needed to do that to keep his footing. He could have very well stood straight up and flopped like he does half the time.

I don't think he planned it, or was totally malicious, but I also don't believe it was 100% innocent.

 

[Dave McNulla]

Because Horry was leaning so much, it was called a foul. If it's a foul, then it's illegal. If it's illegal, then why does Horry, in that situation, do that?

Any pick that is set like that is going to be called a foul. He's leaning so far into West that he's standing on his toes. There's a difference between bracing oneself to absorb impact and leaning your weight into a guy to maximize impact.

I think Horry leaned too far, and knew what he was doing, but West jumping just exacerbated the hit.

Here's a good hard pick:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkK-DhdpLuo

Gray stands straight up.

We have seen Brad Miller set hard picks, yet he doesn't have to lean like that, even when he braces for impact. Horry is 6'10'' 240lb, so it's not like he needed to do that to keep his footing. He could have very well stood straight up and flopped like he does half the time.

that's a headbutt? yeah, right. west didn't complain about his upper back, and horry's noggin didn't hit west in the lower back, so the play isn't dirty.

everybody reaches so much to try to reach some imaginary conclusion that the spurs are dirty. they're bracing for hits and leaning too much or they are bunch of no good cheating floppers. whatever.

like i said, suspend horry. i prefer he doesn't play in game 7. but no, that's not the point. people just want the successful team to be a bunch of bad guys.

What you lookin' at? You all a bunch of ****in' *******s. You know why? You don't have the guts to be what you wanna be? You need people like me. You need people like me so you can point your ****in' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie. Me, I don't have that problem. Me, I always tell the truth. Even when I lie. So say good night to the bad guy! Come on. The last time you gonna see a bad guy like this again, let me tell you. Come on. Make way for the bad guy. There's a bad guy comin' through! Better get outta his way!

edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh6IBQO6M3s
nobody made a big deal about chandler's screen (8:25 mark). why? because it's ok to be physical.

 

[Gargamel]

people just want the successful team to be a bunch of bad guys.

They need the Spurs and Lakers so they can say, "Dere goes de bad guy..."

It doesn't help Tony's case when each successive opponent becomes the team to root for. It's like getting knocked out of the playoffs 2-3 times a season.

 

[Showtime]

that's a headbutt? yeah, right. west didn't complain about his upper back, and horry's noggin didn't hit west in the lower back, so the play isn't dirty.

I never said anything about a headbutt. He put his weight into his back, and West jumping, as I said, exacerbated the hit.

everybody reaches so much to try to reach some imaginary conclusion that the spurs are dirty. they're bracing for hits and leaning too much or they are bunch of no good cheating floppers. whatever.

I never said the Spurs, as a team, were cheating floppers. I didn't even call Horry a dirty player. I'm not grasping at things to try to discredit them. I'm just saying I don't think that play was 100% innocent.

edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh6IBQO6M3s
nobody made a big deal about chandler's screen (8:25 mark). why? because it's ok to be physical.

It didn't even look like he leaned until TP hit him. Also, if TP had a back injury, people would be talking about it.

That's the thing about the Horry shot, was that it was a combination of factors that leads up to the controversy. West was injured, and everybody knew it. He was moving quickly and Horry was going to set a blind pick. West jumped, Horry leaned in, and bam. Any other circumstance and it wouldn't be that big of a deal. If Horry stands straight up, or West doesn't jump, or West isn't injured, then it's no big deal.

 

[VF21]

Ah, the joys of controversy in the playoffs. And nothing amuses me more than to see a Spurs fan trying to defend the undefendable.

Horry KNEW what he was doing. That, above all else, makes it intentional and it makes it a foul. And it was called as a foul. And I hope Horry is suspended for doing it. Why? Not because he sucks, which appears to be your only reason, but because hard, physical play is one thing while setting up for a high potential for injury is another.

You said it yourself:

my argument is horry leaned a little bit forward the way any sane person would who has to stand their ground when a guy that much bigger is coming at them. if horry would not have, he would have been knocked back and i'd be reading about what a flopper he is.

You're saying Horry was forced into taking the action to "stand his ground." Excuse me but at what point is a defender allowed to do whatever it takes to "stand his ground"? He wasn't trying to stand his ground; he was, as most have said, trying to set a blind pick and the rules on that are, I believe, pretty clear.

The main thing is he could have set a good pick and people would have gone "Damn, that was wicked." He chose to take it up a notch and it cost him - and it should.

 

[tradepeja]

he could have set a good pick and people would have gone "Damn, that was wicked."

Haha, VF, this isn't the Boston series that we're talking about

 

[AleksandarN]

my argument is horry leaned a little bit forward the way any sane person would who has to stand their ground when a guy that much bigger is coming at them. if horry would not have, he would have been knocked back and i'd be reading about what a flopper he is.

Thank you. You just proved my point he was trying to injure West. Horry always goes for the flop to get a call. This time he did not because that was not his objective. He knew exactly what he was doing.

 

[VF21]

And AleksandarN wins the portion of the thread devoted to the discussion of Robert Horry.

 

[Dave McNulla]

I never said anything about a headbutt. He put his weight into his back, and West jumping, as I said, exacerbated the hit.

many people are basing their whole opinion on an imaginary headbutt.

I never said the Spurs, as a team, were cheating floppers. I didn't even call Horry a dirty player. I'm not grasping at things to try to discredit them. I'm just saying I don't think that play was 100% innocent.

many people say spurs are dirty and spurs are floppers.

It didn't even look like he leaned until TP hit him. Also, if TP had a back injury, people would be talking about it.

his forearms were pushing through TP, something that robert horry did not do in his play.

That's the thing about the Horry shot, was that it was a combination of factors that leads up to the controversy. West was injured, and everybody knew it. He was moving quickly and Horry was going to set a blind pick. West jumped, Horry leaned in, and bam. Any other circumstance and it wouldn't be that big of a deal. If Horry stands straight up, or West doesn't jump, or West isn't injured, then it's no big deal.

horry can't do anything about west being hurt. he can't decide to take it easy on the guy. the game isn't played that way. he leaned forwards a little bit, it's normal for somebody who expects a big impact.

 

[Dave McNulla]

Ah, the joys of controversy in the playoffs. And nothing amuses me more than to see a Spurs fan trying to defend the undefendable.

Horry KNEW what he was doing. That, above all else, makes it intentional and it makes it a foul. And it was called as a foul. And I hope Horry is suspended for doing it. Why? Not because he sucks, which appears to be your only reason, but because hard, physical play is one thing while setting up for a high potential for injury is another.

You said it yourself:

You're saying Horry was forced into taking the action to "stand his ground." Excuse me but at what point is a defender allowed to do whatever it takes to "stand his ground"? He wasn't trying to stand his ground; he was, as most have said, trying to set a blind pick and the rules on that are, I believe, pretty clear.

The main thing is he could have set a good pick and people would have gone "Damn, that was wicked." He chose to take it up a notch and it cost him - and it should.

blind picks are not illegal. bracing oneself for an impact is not illegal either. there is no dirty play to defend. you make my job easy.

edit:

horry's head is not moving forward, nor is it in david west's lower back. horry's arms are not moving forward, nor are they in david west's lower back.

honestly, what's so dirty about the play?

 

[BMiller52]

blind picks are not illegal. bracing oneself for an impact is not illegal either. there is no dirty play to defend. you make my job easy.

edit:

horry's head is not moving forward, nor is it in david west's lower back. horry's arms are not moving forward, nor are they in david west's lower back.

honestly, what's so dirty about the play?

If you can't see he's deliberately leaning forward when West jumps you're blind. It's even in your picture dude.

 

[Aenadin]

Clearly horry was leaning towards west... it doesnt matter if he moved or not but the way he is inclined to west says it all... his momentum as he lands on horry would be enough and that little "friendly" nudge that people tend to not see....

honestly i dont like how the spurs play... and they represent the champions (advocating "harD" aka dirty fouls)

what really upset me is how some of the fans cheered horry when west went down... that was low very low

 

[AleksandarN]

blind picks are not illegal. bracing oneself for an impact is not illegal either. there is no dirty play to defend. you make my job easy.

edit:

horry's head is not moving forward, nor is it in david west's lower back. horry's arms are not moving forward, nor are they in david west's lower back.

honestly, what's so dirty about the play?

LOL when has Horry ever braced for impact? Specially since if he were to flop he would get the foul called on West? If we were to take your opinion that it is West that fouled Horry. Here is your quote just in case you forgot.

west created the contact and it sucks that he was hurt, but if anybody fouled anybody on that play, west fouled horry.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

LOL when has Horry ever braced for impact? Specially since if he were to flop he would get the foul called on West? If we were to take your opinion that it is West that fouled Horry. Here is your quote just in case you forgot.

is there a doubt that west didn't foul horry?

 

[Dave McNulla]

If you can't see he's deliberately leaning forward when West jumps you're blind. It's even in your picture dude.

where did i say that he isn't leaning forward? i did not.

since when did leaning forward become dirty? sometime after brad miller's last pick, i presume.

edit:
Spurs notebook: NBA review doesn't find problem with Horry's foul on Hornets' West

Web Posted: 05/16/2008 11:01 PM CDT

By Mike Monroe and Mike Finger
Express-News

The NBA's basketball operations staff determined during a review Friday that Robert Horry's foul on David West in the fourth quarter of the Spurs' Game 6 victory over the New Orleans Hornets was routine.

A back-pedaling West crashed into an Horry screen while trying to deflect a Manu Ginobili pass during Thursday night's game.

Horry had moved up on West from behind and positioned himself as Ginobili began a drive to the basket past Jannero Pargo.

Ginobili left his feet to throw a crosscourt jump pass, which West attempted to deflect. While still moving backwards in the air, West crashed into Horry's screen and crumpled to the floor.

 

[vj9999]

There is nothing wrong with that foul. However, the intent is obvious. Horry knew that West had a bad back. That screen was not really necesarry but he put a little extra into it to make sure West has a hard time getting up.


If Bonzi did the same thing to Timmy, you would be seeing this differently.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

There is nothing wrong with that foul. However, the intent is obvious. Horry knew that West had a bad back. That screen was not really necesarry but he put a little extra into it to make sure West has a hard time getting up.


If Bonzi did the same thing to Timmy, you would be seeing this differently.

whatever it takes to win the game right..?

NO should send one of their guys to lean in non intentionally on one of their important players too. :rolls eyes:

 

[AleksandarN]

where did i say that he isn't leaning forward? i did not.

since when did leaning forward become dirty? sometime after brad miller's last pick, i presume.

edit:
Spurs notebook: NBA review doesn't find problem with Horry's foul on Hornets' West

Web Posted: 05/16/2008 11:01 PM CDT

By Mike Monroe and Mike Finger
Express-News

The NBA's basketball operations staff determined during a review Friday that Robert Horry's foul on David West in the fourth quarter of the Spurs' Game 6 victory over the New Orleans Hornets was routine.

A back-pedaling West crashed into an Horry screen while trying to deflect a Manu Ginobili pass during Thursday night's game.

Horry had moved up on West from behind and positioned himself as Ginobili began a drive to the basket past Jannero Pargo.

Ginobili left his feet to throw a crosscourt jump pass, which West attempted to deflect. While still moving backwards in the air, West crashed into Horry's screen and crumpled to the floor.

LOL I like how you ignore my posts.

 

[VF21]

Dave - Believe whatever you choose to believe. Your POV and mine will NEVER be the same on this. I wish your team all the luck they deserve.

 

[Dave McNulla]

LOL I like how you ignore my posts.

i can't figure out what you are ever trying to say. sorry.

 

[Dave McNulla]

Dave - Believe whatever you choose to believe. Your POV and mine will NEVER be the same on this. I wish your team all the luck they deserve.

i think it's because we're talking about robert horry, not because of anything he's done or not done. you don't see this point of view in the laker or rocket forums. if you reached any more, you'd get a separated shoulder.

 

[AleksandarN]

i can't figure out what you are ever trying to say. sorry.

Ok what part don't you understand?

Thank you. You just proved my point he was trying to injure West. Horry always goes for the flop to get a call. This time he did not because that was not his objective. He knew exactly what he was doing.

 

[Dave McNulla]

Ok what part don't you understand?

in this particular case, i don't understand how did you come to the conclusion that horry always tries to flop. and it's not the first time. so you are easy to ignore.

and don't try to create some kind of arguement here. the next thing you say will also lack logic. i will ignore you again.

 

[AleksandarN]

in this particular case, i don't understand how did you come to the conclusion that horry always tries to flop. and it's not the first time. so you are easy to ignore.

and don't try to create some kind of arguement here. the next thing you say will also lack logic. i will ignore you again.

lmao you are too funny. I bet if we start a poll in any message board other then the Spurs and asked people if Horry always tries to flop to get a call the out come would be in my favor. Thats good ignore away, that means you have no intelligent comeback from my argument.

 

[Lirica]

unless you think west is made of straw, then my argument is not made of 'straws'. my argument is horry leaned a little bit forward the way any sane person would who has to stand their ground when a guy that much bigger is coming at them. if horry would not have, he would have been knocked back and i'd be reading about what a flopper he is.

...West is 6'9", 240 lbs...

...Horry is 6'10", 240 lbs...

(according to FoxSports)

...so please explain again why Horry had to lean forward?..

 

[Kingzrool]

OK. It is established that just about everyone disagrees with Dave. If he does not watch, out I may consider dubbing him "Dufus Dave". But we will see.

Back to topic at hand. Spurs win game 7, bookmark it.

As most of you, aside from Slim and Dufu.....I mean Dave, I hope the Hornets win the game. Too bad they will not. The Spurs will take this series and lose to the lakers (trust me, I hate to say that even more). Then the Lakers will beat the Pistons and I will be officially pissed, although right.

 

[AleksandarN]

OK. It is established that just about everyone disagrees with Dave. If he does not watch, out I may consider dubbing him "Dufus Dave". But we will see.

Back to topic at hand. Spurs win game 7, bookmark it.

As most of you, aside from Slim and Dufu.....I mean Dave, I hope the Hornets win the game. Too bad they will not. The Spurs will take this series and lose to the lakers (trust me, I hate to say that even more). Then the Lakers will beat the Pistons and I will be officially pissed, although right.

But if we win the lottery I do not care who wins the championship.

 

[VF21]

i think it's because we're talking about robert horry, not because of anything he's done or not done. you don't see this point of view in the laker or rocket forums. if you reached any more, you'd get a separated shoulder.

I'm terribly sorry but I don't frequent Rockets or Laker forums and, quite frankly, I fail to see the relevance. You're at a KINGS forum and we're having a discussion about how we perceive the game. You're more than welcome to participate but I'm seeing a trend here. You're getting more and more defensive because, IMHO, your argument is circular and specious.

I don't care if it was Chris Webber out there, BTW. If I saw that from any other player, my comment would be the same. It's cheap. The fact it was Robert Horry doing it only added more fuel to my personal flame about him, since I'm still more than a little perturbed over the hip check on Nash in last year's playoffs.

Take off the blinders. Of course, if you take them off as far as Horry is concerned, you also have to take them off as far as Bowen and Manu are concerned and the real picture just might be too much.

 

[Dave McNulla]

I'm terribly sorry but I don't frequent Rockets or Laker forums and, quite frankly, I fail to see the relevance. You're at a KINGS forum and we're having a discussion about how we perceive the game. You're more than welcome to participate but I'm seeing a trend here. You're getting more and more defensive because, IMHO, your argument is circular and specious.

am i getting defensive or are you?

I don't care if it was Chris Webber out there, BTW. If I saw that from any other player, my comment would be the same. It's cheap. The fact it was Robert Horry doing it only added more fuel to my personal flame about him, since I'm still more than a little perturbed over the hip check on Nash in last year's playoffs.

you carry a flame for horry? it's a fine line between love and hate.

Take off the blinders. Of course, if you take them off as far as Horry is concerned, you also have to take them off as far as Bowen and Manu are concerned and the real picture just might be too much.

blinders? no way. horry was cleared on all charges from this incident. bowen has been suspended once in his whole entire career, manu has never. you are the one swimming against the stream.