Rumor: Thompson & Garcia for #2

[LWP777]

DON'T trade Hawes or Thompson! If we keep trading young 1 and 2 year players for more unknowns we are never going to get anywhere. Hawes and Thompson have shown they can play together well. Why ruin that for the assumption that we will get something better?

We won 17 games. I hope they felt good playing "well" together.

 

[Warhawk]

If we can trade him and a worthless Garcia for a chance at a GREAT player, then you do it. We won 17 games last year, why are we so worried about who our power forward is going to be? Who cares? We won 17 games with a full starting lineup -- how neat!

You sure are quick to trade a promising big and good 6th man off the bench for someone in such a weak draft. Everyone in this draft has holes in their game and none are sure-fire all-star material. Many seem to be boom-or-bust in nature. Trading away a decent rookie PF with size, athleticism, and good motor for a wish and a dream isn't my idea of bright.....no guarantees that who you get will ever pan out. And there are some valid concerns about Rubio. I don't see gutting your team at a big position to get two smalls instead of one. Not in this draft.

 

[=LarryLegend=]

Why cant it be Kenny Thomas, Cisco and 4 for 2 and a bum?

 

[SacTownKid]

I'd be utterly disappointed if the Kings did this. Hawes, Thompson, and Garcia are some of the last guys we should be looking to trade.

 

[DerekJ]

I would reluctantly do Thompson and Garcia for #1

No way for Rubio.

 

[Merdiesel]

Ricky Rubio has the potential to change our franchise for the next decade.. Do whatever it takes to bring that kid to Sacramento!

 

[bajaden]

Hawes and Thompson have both played under two different coaches in their short NBA careers. Martin and Cisco are really lucky. They've played under four different coaches in the last four years. The franchise has been nothing but a revolving door for players and coaches the last four years. So I don't think anyone should be surprised by our record last year.

If you keep changing coaches and players, there's never going to be any continuity or familiarity. Players have to play together for a while for them to become a team instead of just individuals out on the court. This is particularly true when you have a very young team. If you keep changing out one young player for another, this will never happen.

Now you can shorten this process if you have, lets say a Paul Pierce on your team and you add an Allen and a Garnett into the stew. Because they're all experienced players. Of course your window of opportunity is also very short.

I don't think Hawes or Thompson in particular are going anywhere. The worse thing you can do is let go of a player that looks promising before you actually know what you've got. In Cisco and Martin I think the Kings are fairly sure what they have. So its just a matter of whether they fit into whatever the plan is. If the powers that be don't think one of them is a good fit, then you move that player, hopefully for one that is a good fit. But you don't just give them away for unknowns or pie in the sky.

In 1980 the Warriors traded their first pick in the draft, which was the third pick in first round along with Robert Parrish for the first pick in the draft, so they could draft Joe Barry Carroll. The Celt's, who already had Larry Bird on board, then used that pick to draft Kevin McHale. The rest is history. The Warriors could have had Parrish and McHale as their front court. But they decided that Carroll might be a superstar. Well he wasn't. He was decent to even good at times. But he played with no fire in his belly and he was inconsistant.

 

[Kings Faithful]

We won 17 games. I hope they felt good playing "well" together.

Im pretty sure our overall team performance didn't hinge on the playing ability of a rookie and a sophomore. I don't care how many damned games we won...they played well together.

 

[Bricklayer]

The only way could see that deal would be if we were going to take Thabeet with one of those two picks to create a twin towers. Its ether that or Westphal already opting for smallball less than two weeks on the job and planning to play Noc at the 4 while we load up with yet more little players. Oh I suppose we could have mysteriously gotten high on Jordan Hill at some point, but really, high enough to basically trade JT for him?

I'm far more enthused about adding Thabeet to JT and Hawes to create a the biggest young frontcourt in the game then in essentially swappng JT for Thabeet. I won't beat my head against the wall if it happens -- it would be a decisive move towards defense and size, all of which is welcome. Add one of the big PGs who value defense like Evans or Rubio, and its a step forward in that aspect at least. But I'm not sure how great a leap forward it is overall.


P.S. Actually there is a third possibility I was not considering -- if this is a way to dump Cisco's salary then we could be trying to land the #2, #4, and then really open up the pocket books for a FA. That could be interesting as we could all of a sudden have huge money to chase the players of our choice this summer.

 

[LWP777]

Hawes and Thompson have both played under two different coaches in their short NBA careers. Martin and Cisco are really lucky. They've played under four different coaches in the last four years. The franchise has been nothing but a revolving door for players and coaches the last four years. So I don't think anyone should be surprised by our record last year.

If you keep changing coaches and players, there's never going to be any continuity or familiarity. Players have to play together for a while for them to become a team instead of just individuals out on the court. This is particularly true when you have a very young team. If you keep changing out one young player for another, this will never happen.

Now you can shorten this process if you have, lets say a Paul Pierce on your team and you add an Allen and a Garnett into the stew. Because they're all experienced players. Of course your window of opportunity is also very short.

I don't think Hawes or Thompson in particular are going anywhere. The worse thing you can do is let go of a player that looks promising before you actually know what you've got. In Cisco and Martin I think the Kings are fairly sure what they have. So its just a matter of whether they fit into whatever the plan is. If the powers that be don't think one of them is a good fit, then you move that player, hopefully for one that is a good fit. But you don't just give them away for unknowns or pie in the sky.

In 1980 the Warriors traded their first pick in the draft, which was the third pick in first round along with Robert Parrish for the first pick in the draft, so they could draft Joe Barry Carroll. The Celt's, who already had Larry Bird on board, then used that pick to draft Kevin McHale. The rest is history. The Warriors could have had Parrish and McHale as their front court. But they decided that Carroll might be a superstar. Well he wasn't. He was decent to even good at times. But he played with no fire in his belly and he was inconsistant.

So you are comparing Blake Griffin to Joe Barry Carroll and Jason Thompson to Robert Parish. Nice.

 

[LWP777]

P.S. Actually there is a third possibility I was not considering -- if this is a way to dump Cisco's salary then we could be trying to land the #2, #4, and then really open up the pocket books for a FA. That could be interesting as we could all of a sudden have huge money to chase the players of our choice this summer.

Exactly! See my post above for my dream scenario. Trade JT and Garcia, draft Rubio and Curry or Evans, then sign Boozer.

It could happen if they could pull off this trade AND the Maloofs were willing to open up their pocketbook.

 

[vfettke]

The article talks about Memphis wanting Evans. I assume the deal includes us sending pick #4.

If it doesn't involve #4, then make the deal. Draft Rubio and Harden/Curry. Send Martin, Kenny Thomas, and either the #23 or a future first to Toronto for Bosh

Rubio
Curry/Harden
Noc
Bosh
Hawes

Bosh could jet at the end of the year, but that means about $15 million off the books. He could also be signed and traded, since we'd own his Bird Rights, for other valuable pieces

 

[LWP777]

The article talks about Memphis wanting Evans. I assume the deal includes us sending pick #4.

If it doesn't involve #4, then make the deal. Draft Rubio and Harden/Curry. Send Martin, Kenny Thomas, and either the #23 or a future first to Toronto for Bosh

Rubio
Curry/Harden
Noc
Bosh
Hawes

Bosh could jet at the end of the year, but that means about $15 million off the books. He could also be signed and traded, since we'd own his Bird Rights, for other valuable pieces

I don't think it's JT, Garcia, AND the #4 for the #2...obviously, that's way too much. I'm reading it would just be JT and Garcia for the #2.

 

[Kings Faithful]

How did a rumor about jt and garcia for the #2 pick turn into a dream team thread with Bosh and Boozer as our pf's....

 

[Kingsin07]

Exactly! See my post above for my dream scenario. Trade JT and Garcia, draft Rubio and Curry or Evans, then sign Boozer.

It could happen if they could pull off this trade AND the Maloofs were willing to open up their pocketbook.

I would take Thabeet and Curry. Scoring galore in the backcourt, defensive presence inside. They could wait until 2010 and go after Amare or Bosh.

Curry, Martin, Thabeet, Hawes, Nocioni....Boozer would be another nice possibility. There are PF's out there that could be servicable for a year, and if Ike is at all for real, he and Spencer could fill that role for the time being.

 

[DocHolliday]

How did a rumor about jt and garcia for the #2 pick turn into a dream team thread with Bosh and Boozer as our pf's....

Because, this deal would free up more money, and peopld are discussing who you would draft, and if there are voids left what you could do with the extra money the Kings would have. Pretty straight forward.

 

[Warhawk]

So you are comparing Blake Griffin to Joe Barry Carroll and Jason Thompson to Robert Parish. Nice.

No, and if that is what you got out of his post it's not worth trying to clear it up.

 

[bajaden]

So you are comparing Blake Griffin to Joe Barry Carroll and Jason Thompson to Robert Parish. Nice.

What in heavens name does Griffin have to do with anything I said. My reference to that trade had to do with a team giving up on a player for someone that they thought would be better. They guessed wrong and it set them back as a franchise. Lets be clear about one thing. I don't give a damm whether you were a coach or an official or the brother of Phil Jackson. Considering your kneejerk reaction to a little criticism, I'll bet you were a great official.

However, as you said, your entitled to your opinion. I never said your wern't. I happen to disagree with your analogy of Thompson at the present time. Long team you might prove to be right. But after one year of NBA basketball its impossible to state that he's as good as he's ever going to be. Frankly, if there was a trade made, I would rather trade Hawes. At least then if you drafted Thabeet you would still have a center and a PF. But I think its too early to trade either one for anothe unproven player. Now if you want to trade Thompson for Boozer or similar ilk, then thats another story.

 

[LWP777]

What in heavens name does Griffin have to do with anything I said. My reference to that trade had to do with a team giving up on a player for someone that they thought would be better. They guessed wrong and it set them back as a franchise. Lets be clear about one thing. I don't give a damm whether you were a coach or an official or the brother of Phil Jackson. Considering your kneejerk reaction to a little criticism, I'll bet you were a great official.

However, as you said, your entitled to your opinion. I never said your wern't. I happen to disagree with your analogy of Thompson at the present time. Long team you might prove to be right. But after one year of NBA basketball its impossible to state that he's as good as he's ever going to be. Frankly, if there was a trade made, I would rather trade Hawes. At least then if you drafted Thabeet you would still have a center and a PF. But I think its too early to trade either one for anothe unproven player. Now if you want to trade Thompson for Boozer or similar ilk, then thats another story.

Don't get so personal Baja—you are out of line to insult my officiating experience. I know you get intimidated by the newbies here but there is no need to get emotional and flustered about it.

My reply to your Joe Barry Carroll post was 100% sarcastic. If you couldn't figure that out, then sorry I can't help you. You did however try to make us think that JT could someday become as good as Robert Parish, which, of course, is ludicrous.

I can’t wait for your next “witty” reply.

 

[LWP777]

What in heavens name does Griffin have to do with anything I said. My reference to that trade had to do with a team giving up on a player for someone that they thought would be better. They guessed wrong and it set them back as a franchise. Lets be clear about one thing. I don't give a damm whether you were a coach or an official or the brother of Phil Jackson. Considering your kneejerk reaction to a little criticism, I'll bet you were a great official.

However, as you said, your entitled to your opinion. I never said your wern't. I happen to disagree with your analogy of Thompson at the present time. Long team you might prove to be right. But after one year of NBA basketball its impossible to state that he's as good as he's ever going to be. Frankly, if there was a trade made, I would rather trade Hawes. At least then if you drafted Thabeet you would still have a center and a PF. But I think its too early to trade either one for anothe unproven player. Now if you want to trade Thompson for Boozer or similar ilk, then thats another story.

The other thing you are completely missing in all of this is that adding Garcia to the mix opens up salary cap which might give us the opportunity to sign a guy like Boozer.

Would you rather have JT, Garcia, and the #4 or Boozer, #2, #4 ???

I know it's deep for you, but maybe you can see it now.

 

[rainmaker]

The more I think about it, the more I like this deal, as long as we use the extra space under the cap to go after a quality big man. I don't mind using the #2 and #4 on guards, as long as we go after a good big man through free agency.

 

[Bricklayer]

How did a rumor about jt and garcia for the #2 pick turn into a dream team thread with Bosh and Boozer as our pf's....

Yeah, as the poster above mentioned, Memphis is under the cap. That means that in a deal liek this we could trade them Cisco's contract and not have to take any salary back. If we did that our own free cap room this summer would jump from $7mil to something like $13mil. And so really the purpose of such a trade could be:

1) #2 pick
2) #4 pick, #23 pick, #31 pick
3) $13mil free agent


And its that 3) that could result in us landing a guy like Boozer or whoever.

It would be kind of the same theory as some of the trade Kevin proposals we would have -- the first prong is you get back the high pick, the second prong is you free up enough salary to sign a major free agent. In such a scenario you could end up basically trading JT for Boozer and Cisco for the #2. Which works nicely for us...IF the free agents cooperate.

 

[beb0p]

I like JT and I think he's going to turn into a very good player. But if he can be traded for the #2 pick along with Cisco, it's a no brainer. Take Thabeet and have a big man rotation of Hawes, Thabeet, and Diogu. You have post scoring, passing, rebounding, and shot blocking. The only thing you don't have is experience but that will come. I'd rather add Thabeet to JT and Hawes but like Brick said, adding Thabeet is a step towards being a defensive minded concept which is a good thing.

With the #4, draft Rubio or Evans. Thabeet can be very effective in the pick and roll with Rubio running it. Otherwise, Evans adds size, thoughness and athleticism. This can be a big turnaround for the franchise if it ever happens. Doubt it will though.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Yeah, as the poster above mentioned, Memphis is under the cap. That means that in a deal liek this we could trade them Cisco's contract and not have to take any salary back. If we did that our own free cap room this summer would jump from $7mil to something like $13mil. And so really the purpose of such a trade could be:

1) #2 pick
2) #4 pick, #23 pick, #31 pick
3) $13mil free agent


And its that 3) that could result in us landing a guy like Boozer or whoever.

It would be kind of the same theory as some of the trade Kevin proposals we would have -- the first prong is you get back the high pick, the second prong is you free up enough salary to sign a major free agent. In such a scenario you could end up basically trading JT for Boozer and Cisco for the #2. Which works nicely for us...IF the free agents cooperate.

I don't know if you can do that, I think you just get a trade exemption. I don't know for sure though.

 

[Widowmaker2k]

Rumor is that Charlotte may be looking to part ways with Okafor. If we did a JT and Cisco for #2, I would be happy to follow up with a #4/Beno for Okafor deal. Okafor makes a lot of money, and he's not much of a scorer, but he's a defensive big and would balance out our starting lineup very nicely (and we save by dumping Udrih).

Rubio/Martin/Noc/Okafor/Hawes

 

[Vlade4GM]

Rumor is that Charlotte may be looking to part ways with Okafor. If we did a JT and Cisco for #2, I would be happy to follow up with a #4/Beno for Okafor deal. Okafor makes a lot of money, and he's not much of a scorer, but he's a defensive big and would balance out our starting lineup very nicely (and we save by dumping Udrih).

Rubio/Martin/Noc/Okafor/Hawes

Okafor for #4 and a crap contract? They don't do that.

 

[Bricklayer]

I don't know if you can do that, I think you just get a trade exemption. I don't know for sure though.

I think trade exceptions are only generated when you are over the cap (otherwise not much sue for them), and both we and Memphis arre currently under.

 

[Widowmaker2k]

Okafor for #4 and a crap contract? They don't do that.

Meh, I only mentioned it because a Charlotte fan on RealGM proposed #4/Beno for Okafor and both of Charlotte's second rounders. I thought that was overpaying on Charlotte's side, so I cut out the second rounders. Maybe offer them #4, #23, and Beno for Okafor.

 

[CaAllDay]

The article talks about Memphis wanting Evans. I assume the deal includes us sending pick #4.

If it doesn't involve #4, then make the deal. Draft Rubio and Harden/Curry. Send Martin, Kenny Thomas, and either the #23 or a future first to Toronto for Bosh

Rubio
Curry/Harden
Noc
Bosh
Hawes

Bosh could jet at the end of the year, but that means about $15 million off the books. He could also be signed and traded, since we'd own his Bird Rights, for other valuable pieces

i like this deal, sheds martin wouldnt take curry though.

 

[ParniValjak]

Yeah, as the poster above mentioned, Memphis is under the cap. That means that in a deal liek this we could trade them Cisco's contract and not have to take any salary back. If we did that our own free cap room this summer would jump from $7mil to something like $13mil. And so really the purpose of such a trade could be:

1) #2 pick
2) #4 pick, #23 pick, #31 pick
3) $13mil free agent


And its that 3) that could result in us landing a guy like Boozer or whoever.

It would be kind of the same theory as some of the trade Kevin proposals we would have -- the first prong is you get back the high pick, the second prong is you free up enough salary to sign a major free agent. In such a scenario you could end up basically trading JT for Boozer and Cisco for the #2. Which works nicely for us...IF the free agents cooperate.

I think this is the only way this makes sense!

We waited forever to get our young PF now we trade him for pick 2 and be back to square one?!

The only way this move makes sense is if we get a proven PF in return. A Boozer via FA or Bosh/Amare via trade but the Bosh/Amare trade would become less realistic since you are trading way one of your major trading chips in JT to get an extra pick. Unless of course we use one of those picks in a trade for Bosh/Amare.

Ending up wit Thabeet and Rubio from these picks (or even Thabeet and Flynn) and then signing Boozer does make an instant improvement though.