I mean, I think that's at least a year and a half away from being a problem. Consider this season mostly a lost year and then next year his "true" rookie season. And if Carter is who we think he is, there's your elite 3 man guard rotation that all can play with each other.
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I mean, I think that's at least a year and a half away from being a problem. Consider this season mostly a lost year and then next year his "true" rookie season. And if Carter is who we think he is, there's your elite 3 man guard rotation that all can play with each other.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Yeh it could be, I guess I don’t love the idea of having only 2 good defenders in the starting unit and basically all high usage. Sure we can stagger but that could get interesting. Having Deebo man the second unit like a much more efficient Westbrook would be interesting to me if we could replace him with a stud wing defender. Don’t know if that would fly given the production. Probably just have to live with the results of this group
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Brown had been seemingly so against the idea of starting Monk, which made sense with the roster and fit, that it makes me wonder if it was a mandate from those above him to force a change with the losing record
Yeah, I think we're thinking "in an ideal world" of where we'd like these guys roles to be, but this team is playing so far below that expectation right now. Keon is the guy you'd want as the cherry on top to compliment everyone else; if they were doing their job. Monk is someone who doesn't need others to make things happen. And as we're scrambling, it does make sense to get the guy who can just go be the spark plug by himself and carry the offense, if needed.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
At this point if Carter can take the challenge then many minutes should be shared by Fox, Monk, and Carter regardless of who starts. In the end it might be transitioning from Monk being better off not starting and then finishing the game to better off starting and not finishing if you need defense. We'll see. So far the Kings have at the end of games more than not.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Ok so right now our rotation looks something like this:
Fox
Monk Ellis
Deebo Huerter
Keegan Crowder
Domas IJ
If that starting unit is what we are rolling with, we need to add at least 1 perimeter with size to that bench unit and they probably need to shoot. Do we revisit Thybulle since he is signed cheap and wouldn’t cost a first rounder?
Fox
Monk Ellis
Deebo Huerter
Keegan Crowder
Domas IJ
If that starting unit is what we are rolling with, we need to add at least 1 perimeter with size to that bench unit and they probably need to shoot. Do we revisit Thybulle since he is signed cheap and wouldn’t cost a first rounder?
Obviously Carter's availability is coloring our perception of this past draft. I too really wanted someone that could sit between Keegan and Domas as a "4" whatever that means today. I think equally frustrating was our inability to possibly grab a second pick to get one of those types of guys or even Ryan Dunn who is listed at 6'8.
If Carter actually is a stud who enters the top 5 of his class discussion then it was the right call. If it ends up like Davion whooo-boy. I believe in Carter but I also think this roster is horribly unbalanced.
All that said, Isaac Jones has been a breath of fresh air. Could he turn out better than a DFS type addition? Or are we basically looking at him the way we looked at Richaun on a discount contract vs. Richaun on an MLE deal?
I think that right now Jones is making Lyles expendable (save for the shooting?) and Carter will do the same for Kevin. Hopefully those two contracts could = one quality PF. Whatever that means. But obviously has to work with Domas and Keegan or DDR as our front court.
If Carter actually is a stud who enters the top 5 of his class discussion then it was the right call. If it ends up like Davion whooo-boy. I believe in Carter but I also think this roster is horribly unbalanced.
All that said, Isaac Jones has been a breath of fresh air. Could he turn out better than a DFS type addition? Or are we basically looking at him the way we looked at Richaun on a discount contract vs. Richaun on an MLE deal?
I think that right now Jones is making Lyles expendable (save for the shooting?) and Carter will do the same for Kevin. Hopefully those two contracts could = one quality PF. Whatever that means. But obviously has to work with Domas and Keegan or DDR as our front court.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Yeh hopefully by the deadline we can have a more confident assessment of IJ and his long term outlook.
I wonder if we are sorta floating around .500 if Monte tries to move Huerter for a guy that won’t cost first rounders. Like would return to Atlanta for Nance Jr make sense for both teams? Atlanta doesn’t need Nance really, could they use more shooting off the bench? Or would Huerter and 3 seconds be enough to get DFS? Not sure what his value is at the moment.
Both are realistic but I don't see BKN trading DFS unless they fall out of the playoff hunt. Nance Jr is a solid player. Not really a needle mover but his shooting has been good the last 2 years and he's solid on defense. Downside is he basically always misses about 25-50% of the season.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
I’m also not sure how much better Nance is than Isaac is on both of their current trajectories.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
If Carter ends up like Davion then that probably speaks more to the balance of the roster or usage more than anything. It's funny with Carter, people really seem to think he's a PG when while he can play some PG he's not. Or at least he's not stuck there. He's a playmaking SG that should be able to guard multiple positions. Had Davion been that, with the size and athletic ability of Devin he'd still be here. I've seen some of the vids of Devin working out, he looks to have put a little size on as well. He's probably comfortably in that 205-210 range weight wise. With his frame and strength, he's going to be a tough handle for anyone physically.
When it comes to the "4" spot thing, I don't get it either. Brown has played quite a bit of Keegan, Lyles, and Domas together. Lyles IS a 4. Now Jones is taking those minutes and has shared time with Keegan at the 3 as well. The problems continued to persist. We saw it last night, it's the defensive formations and lack of awareness of some of the Kings non defensive oriented players.
I definitely expect Carter to be a "2" only question is if he is playing off the bench who will get most of the creation minutes next to him.
As for the ideal fit between Keegan and Domas it's JJJ who we should have drafted instead of Bagley or Luka. Good luck finding that.
As for the ideal fit between Keegan and Domas it's JJJ who we should have drafted instead of Bagley or Luka. Good luck finding that.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
You can't think of any examples of who you would like to play between Murray and Sabonis? That's a "PF" or a 4
I'm saying that the position is a bit undefined how we traditionally think of it, and it also reflects the view some people have that Sabonis is not a true center.
I said in a later post who I think the ideal player would have been. JJJ. We wanted a big man instead of a Luka and we didn't even work him out. For shame.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
He might get some, I mean he can run pick and roll so that will be a thing or should. They might see him as the new Malik who knows. I just get the feeling that Brown is going to use Malik and Carter out there together a bunch.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
As far as someone they could acquire, it's probably Jon Isaac or Jerami Grant. I don't view Finney-Smith as a "PF", even though he plays there. He's more a 3 playing 4, like Murray is
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Thing that often gets overlooked with Carter too is that he’s a Josh Hart-level rebounder out of the guard slot. As much as I love Davion and think Jamal should be seeing a few more minutes just to reduce strain on the rotation, any rebound you’re getting from those guys is just a pleasant surprise.
We can't possibly acquire Jerami Grant's contract so let's just stop thinking about him.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
If you want to think about Jon Isaac, I'd be good with taking a chance on him. They're probably going to have to take a risk at some point to really become a contender
I had no idea Valanciunas was on such a bargain contract. I think you may be giving away every single second rounder that we have left unencumbered, but if that deal were on the table it would be GM malpractice to not jump on it.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I see Nance as a replacement for Trey. More defense and toughness. I think IJ and Nance have the versatility to play the 4 or 5
Not my favorite get but I think you can make the numbers work. I know Orlando was rumored to want and failed to land Klay not sure if they'd be interested in Kevin but the numbers are very close.
My understanding though is Isaac and Orlando's ownership are peas in a pod.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Do you have a favorite get, that would fit between Murray and Sabonis? If we're assuming that Jackson is not on the table
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
No matter who is on the floor with this roster or additional players, if the coaching staff is teaching a scheme that collapses inside of 17 feet and leaves the 3 pt line open, the main problem will not likely improve over the season.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
there are 30 games left for the Nets before the deadline. I’d imagine they will have a good idea where they are after the next 15. I personally expect the Raptors and the Sixers to pass them so they could be 12th pretty quick. They also have a couple young wings they need to get minutes for and I think they keep Cam Johnson. He can fit on any team and has opening stated he wants to stay.
The only reason why I even think we need a rim protecting PF is because of Sabonis' short comings as an interior/paint/rim defender. Sabonis is a poor defender no matter how we slice and dice it. Traditionally you expect that rim protection to be coming from your center spot, but he's not one. That means we need our 4 person to pick up the slack and give us some weak side help defense. What we need is someone who can compliment Sabonis and help alleviate some of his shortcomings as a defender.
However, as you both have said, there aren't many realistic options for us at all for that perfect ideal 3&D PF who can block shots at a high level. But this is the reality of centering your team around Sabonis. That's the part where Monte has to get creative and weigh all of your options. Something will have to give. Do you try to find a PF who can help defend the perimeter, but won't give you any rim protection? Or do you find a PF who can give you rim protection, but wouldn't be able to cover the perimeter? Or do you sacrifice defense entirely for a prolific 3pt shooting PF? Or do you meet in the middle and try to find a 3pt shooting PF who gives a little bit of perimeter defense, but no rim protection? Endless combinations that Monte would need to try to key in on. I've suggested Larry Nance Jr before the season started. I've always been part of the PJ Washington fan club. Grant Williams has been a name thrown around for a while now. We've been close to trying for John Collins 2 years in a row it seems like. Precious could've been a "buy-low" candidate. Onyeka is another player. DFS would've been a SF/PF hybrid like Keegan. We flirted around trading for Lauri all summer long, but the Jazz clearly wanted more than the Kings were willing to give. My point being is that all of these players would've brought a different skillset to the table and helped fulfill 1 need or another whether it be shooting at the 4, perimeter defense, interior defense, length, size, etc.
Yes we have Keegan at "PF" but we play him all over the court/perimeter trying to guard the opposing team's best player. Keegan has been a real headache on offense, but he is the sole reason why our defense doesn't get killed. But because we need him all over the floor, it means we don't have anyone with size truly helping Sabonis in the painted area.
Carter is a 6'2 195lb combo guard who played 3 years of college basketball and only had 1 good year of 3pt shooting, 1 "good" year of FT shooting, and 1 good year of good rebounding....
I know he has a near 6'9 wingspan, but do people really think he's our longterm answer at SG? he is not playing SF at his size....
draft pick has always made 0 sense to me unless he turns out to be an absolute star. still feels like a wasted pick. he's about to be a 23-year-old rookie who just came off a major surgery on a team where Keon gets DNPd... does he even see minutes on this team? should be a firable offense by Monte considering we could've just packed up that draft pick and unlock us from the Kevin Huerter pick protection fiasco that limits our trading capacity if we were just going to throw away the pick anyways on an older player who would be an extreme disappointment if he's not contributing day 1. because if he's not giving us anything, then why did we even draft him? he's not a 19-year-old kid with sky high potential. this roster construction makes no sense.
I know he has a near 6'9 wingspan, but do people really think he's our longterm answer at SG? he is not playing SF at his size....
draft pick has always made 0 sense to me unless he turns out to be an absolute star. still feels like a wasted pick. he's about to be a 23-year-old rookie who just came off a major surgery on a team where Keon gets DNPd... does he even see minutes on this team? should be a firable offense by Monte considering we could've just packed up that draft pick and unlock us from the Kevin Huerter pick protection fiasco that limits our trading capacity if we were just going to throw away the pick anyways on an older player who would be an extreme disappointment if he's not contributing day 1. because if he's not giving us anything, then why did we even draft him? he's not a 19-year-old kid with sky high potential. this roster construction makes no sense.
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That's not correct, and it's also a heck of an undersell. Carter's three-year career average reb/40 was 8.1 He had 8.1 in his freshman year, 6.2 in his sophomore year (first year at Providence) and then 9.8 his junior year. That 9.8 is absolutely silly for a guard, and 8.1 over three years is as well.
Just looking at some great guard rebounders off the top of my head in college (coincidentally all played exactly two years):
Kidd: 6.2, 7.9
Westbrook: 3.8, 4.6
Rondo: 4.5, 7.9
Magic: 7.9 (per game, mpg not available before 1979), 8.4 (per 40, mpg available)
Magic is even a special case because he's like 6'8" or 6'9". Point is, that 9.8 blows them all out of the water, and his three-year average of 8.1 is significantly better than three of the four. It's true that you can't guarantee that college rebounding will translate (I'm looking at you, Thomas Robinson) but saying that Carter had one good year of rebounding is selling all three of his years, and especially his junior year, very, very short.
