Potential Free agent/trade/sign tracker

I wonder if we opened a can of worms either the starting of Monk. If he continued to play well and we have any success he is going to expect to continue as starter. That last presser was the most firm he had been on that stance. I too see Carter as the eventual starter due to the defense. I’m not saying Monk will demand a trade but it could be an issue moving forward
I mean, I think that's at least a year and a half away from being a problem. Consider this season mostly a lost year and then next year his "true" rookie season. And if Carter is who we think he is, there's your elite 3 man guard rotation that all can play with each other.
 
I mean, I think that's at least a year and a half away from being a problem. Consider this season mostly a lost year and then next year his "true" rookie season. And if Carter is who we think he is, there's your elite 3 man guard rotation that all can play with each other.
Yeh it could be, I guess I don’t love the idea of having only 2 good defenders in the starting unit and basically all high usage. Sure we can stagger but that could get interesting. Having Deebo man the second unit like a much more efficient Westbrook would be interesting to me if we could replace him with a stud wing defender. Don’t know if that would fly given the production. Probably just have to live with the results of this group
 
I wonder if we opened a can of worms either the starting of Monk. If he continued to play well and we have any success he is going to expect to continue as starter. That last presser was the most firm he had been on that stance. I too see Carter as the eventual starter due to the defense. I’m not saying Monk will demand a trade but it could be an issue moving forward
Brown had been seemingly so against the idea of starting Monk, which made sense with the roster and fit, that it makes me wonder if it was a mandate from those above him to force a change with the losing record
 
Yeh it could be, I guess I don’t love the idea of having only 2 good defenders in the starting unit and basically all high usage. Sure we can stagger but that could get interesting. Having Deebo man the second unit like a much more efficient Westbrook would be interesting to me if we could replace him with a stud wing defender. Don’t know if that would fly given the production. Probably just have to live with the results of this group
Yeah, I think we're thinking "in an ideal world" of where we'd like these guys roles to be, but this team is playing so far below that expectation right now. Keon is the guy you'd want as the cherry on top to compliment everyone else; if they were doing their job. Monk is someone who doesn't need others to make things happen. And as we're scrambling, it does make sense to get the guy who can just go be the spark plug by himself and carry the offense, if needed.
 
I wonder if we opened a can of worms either the starting of Monk. If he continued to play well and we have any success he is going to expect to continue as starter. That last presser was the most firm he had been on that stance. I too see Carter as the eventual starter due to the defense. I’m not saying Monk will demand a trade but it could be an issue moving forward
At this point if Carter can take the challenge then many minutes should be shared by Fox, Monk, and Carter regardless of who starts. In the end it might be transitioning from Monk being better off not starting and then finishing the game to better off starting and not finishing if you need defense. We'll see. So far the Kings have at the end of games more than not.
 
Ok so right now our rotation looks something like this:

Fox
Monk Ellis
Deebo Huerter
Keegan Crowder
Domas IJ

If that starting unit is what we are rolling with, we need to add at least 1 perimeter with size to that bench unit and they probably need to shoot. Do we revisit Thybulle since he is signed cheap and wouldn’t cost a first rounder?
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
Obviously Carter's availability is coloring our perception of this past draft. I too really wanted someone that could sit between Keegan and Domas as a "4" whatever that means today. I think equally frustrating was our inability to possibly grab a second pick to get one of those types of guys or even Ryan Dunn who is listed at 6'8.

If Carter actually is a stud who enters the top 5 of his class discussion then it was the right call. If it ends up like Davion whooo-boy. I believe in Carter but I also think this roster is horribly unbalanced.

All that said, Isaac Jones has been a breath of fresh air. Could he turn out better than a DFS type addition? Or are we basically looking at him the way we looked at Richaun on a discount contract vs. Richaun on an MLE deal?

I think that right now Jones is making Lyles expendable (save for the shooting?) and Carter will do the same for Kevin. Hopefully those two contracts could = one quality PF. Whatever that means. But obviously has to work with Domas and Keegan or DDR as our front court.
 
Obviously Carter's availability is coloring our perception of this past draft. I too really wanted someone that could sit between Keegan and Domas as a "4" whatever that means today. I think equally frustrating was our inability to possibly grab a second pick to get one of those types of guys or even Ryan Dunn who is listed at 6'8.

If Carter actually is a stud who enters the top 5 of his class discussion then it was the right call. If it ends up like Davion whooo-boy. I believe in Carter but I also think this roster is horribly unbalanced.

All that said, Isaac Jones has been a breath of fresh air. Could he turn out better than a DFS type addition? Or are we basically looking at him the way we looked at Richaun on a discount contract vs. Richaun on an MLE deal?

I think that right now Jones is making Lyles expendable (save for the shooting?) and Carter will do the same for Kevin. Hopefully those two contracts could = one quality PF. Whatever that means. But obviously has to work with Domas and Keegan or DDR as our front court.
Yeh hopefully by the deadline we can have a more confident assessment of IJ and his long term outlook.

I wonder if we are sorta floating around .500 if Monte tries to move Huerter for a guy that won’t cost first rounders. Like would return to Atlanta for Nance Jr make sense for both teams? Atlanta doesn’t need Nance really, could they use more shooting off the bench? Or would Huerter and 3 seconds be enough to get DFS? Not sure what his value is at the moment.
 
Yeh hopefully by the deadline we can have a more confident assessment of IJ and his long term outlook.

I wonder if we are sorta floating around .500 if Monte tries to move Huerter for a guy that won’t cost first rounders. Like would return to Atlanta for Nance Jr make sense for both teams? Atlanta doesn’t need Nance really, could they use more shooting off the bench? Or would Huerter and 3 seconds be enough to get DFS? Not sure what his value is at the moment.
Both are realistic but I don't see BKN trading DFS unless they fall out of the playoff hunt. Nance Jr is a solid player. Not really a needle mover but his shooting has been good the last 2 years and he's solid on defense. Downside is he basically always misses about 25-50% of the season.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
Both are realistic but I don't see BKN trading DFS unless they fall out of the playoff hunt. Nance Jr is a solid player. Not really a needle mover but his shooting has been good the last 2 years and he's solid on defense. Downside is he basically always misses about 25-50% of the season.
I’m also not sure how much better Nance is than Isaac is on both of their current trajectories.
 
Obviously Carter's availability is coloring our perception of this past draft. I too really wanted someone that could sit between Keegan and Domas as a "4" whatever that means today. I think equally frustrating was our inability to possibly grab a second pick to get one of those types of guys or even Ryan Dunn who is listed at 6'8.

If Carter actually is a stud who enters the top 5 of his class discussion then it was the right call. If it ends up like Davion whooo-boy. I believe in Carter but I also think this roster is horribly unbalanced.

All that said, Isaac Jones has been a breath of fresh air. Could he turn out better than a DFS type addition? Or are we basically looking at him the way we looked at Richaun on a discount contract vs. Richaun on an MLE deal?

I think that right now Jones is making Lyles expendable (save for the shooting?) and Carter will do the same for Kevin. Hopefully those two contracts could = one quality PF. Whatever that means. But obviously has to work with Domas and Keegan or DDR as our front court.
If Carter ends up like Davion then that probably speaks more to the balance of the roster or usage more than anything. It's funny with Carter, people really seem to think he's a PG when while he can play some PG he's not. Or at least he's not stuck there. He's a playmaking SG that should be able to guard multiple positions. Had Davion been that, with the size and athletic ability of Devin he'd still be here. I've seen some of the vids of Devin working out, he looks to have put a little size on as well. He's probably comfortably in that 205-210 range weight wise. With his frame and strength, he's going to be a tough handle for anyone physically.

When it comes to the "4" spot thing, I don't get it either. Brown has played quite a bit of Keegan, Lyles, and Domas together. Lyles IS a 4. Now Jones is taking those minutes and has shared time with Keegan at the 3 as well. The problems continued to persist. We saw it last night, it's the defensive formations and lack of awareness of some of the Kings non defensive oriented players.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
I definitely expect Carter to be a "2" only question is if he is playing off the bench who will get most of the creation minutes next to him.

As for the ideal fit between Keegan and Domas it's JJJ who we should have drafted instead of Bagley or Luka. Good luck finding that.
 
Obviously Carter's availability is coloring our perception of this past draft. I too really wanted someone that could sit between Keegan and Domas as a "4" whatever that means today. I think equally frustrating was our inability to possibly grab a second pick to get one of those types of guys or even Ryan Dunn who is listed at 6'8.

If Carter actually is a stud who enters the top 5 of his class discussion then it was the right call. If it ends up like Davion whooo-boy. I believe in Carter but I also think this roster is horribly unbalanced.

All that said, Isaac Jones has been a breath of fresh air. Could he turn out better than a DFS type addition? Or are we basically looking at him the way we looked at Richaun on a discount contract vs. Richaun on an MLE deal?

I think that right now Jones is making Lyles expendable (save for the shooting?) and Carter will do the same for Kevin. Hopefully those two contracts could = one quality PF. Whatever that means. But obviously has to work with Domas and Keegan or DDR as our front court.
You can't think of any examples of who you would like to play between Murray and Sabonis? That's a "PF" or a 4
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
You can't think of any examples of who you would like to play between Murray and Sabonis? That's a "PF" or a 4
I'm saying that the position is a bit undefined how we traditionally think of it, and it also reflects the view some people have that Sabonis is not a true center.

I said in a later post who I think the ideal player would have been. JJJ. We wanted a big man instead of a Luka and we didn't even work him out. For shame.
 
I definitely expect Carter to be a "2" only question is if he is playing off the bench who will get most of the creation minutes next to him.

As for the ideal fit between Keegan and Domas it's JJJ who we should have drafted instead of Bagley or Luka. Good luck finding that.
He might get some, I mean he can run pick and roll so that will be a thing or should. They might see him as the new Malik who knows. I just get the feeling that Brown is going to use Malik and Carter out there together a bunch.
 
I'm saying that the position is a bit undefined how we traditionally think of it, and it also reflects the view some people have that Sabonis is not a true center.

I said in a later post who I think the ideal player would have been. JJJ. We wanted a big man instead of a Luka and we didn't even work him out. For shame.
As far as someone they could acquire, it's probably Jon Isaac or Jerami Grant. I don't view Finney-Smith as a "PF", even though he plays there. He's more a 3 playing 4, like Murray is
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
If Carter ends up like Davion then that probably speaks more to the balance of the roster or usage more than anything. It's funny with Carter, people really seem to think he's a PG when while he can play some PG he's not. Or at least he's not stuck there. He's a playmaking SG that should be able to guard multiple positions. Had Davion been that, with the size and athletic ability of Devin he'd still be here. I've seen some of the vids of Devin working out, he looks to have put a little size on as well. He's probably comfortably in that 205-210 range weight wise. With his frame and strength, he's going to be a tough handle for anyone physically.

When it comes to the "4" spot thing, I don't get it either. Brown has played quite a bit of Keegan, Lyles, and Domas together. Lyles IS a 4. Now Jones is taking those minutes and has shared time with Keegan at the 3 as well. The problems continued to persist. We saw it last night, it's the defensive formations and lack of awareness of some of the Kings non defensive oriented players.
Thing that often gets overlooked with Carter too is that he’s a Josh Hart-level rebounder out of the guard slot. As much as I love Davion and think Jamal should be seeing a few more minutes just to reduce strain on the rotation, any rebound you’re getting from those guys is just a pleasant surprise.
 

Capt. Factorial

ceterum censeo delendum esse Argentum
Staff member
I dunno about ideal fits at the four next to Domas but I do know that I’m hopping on the big burly Lithuanians for 48 minutes train View attachment 12971
I had no idea Valanciunas was on such a bargain contract. I think you may be giving away every single second rounder that we have left unencumbered, but if that deal were on the table it would be GM malpractice to not jump on it.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
If you want to think about Jon Isaac, I'd be good with taking a chance on him. They're probably going to have to take a risk at some point to really become a contender
Not my favorite get but I think you can make the numbers work. I know Orlando was rumored to want and failed to land Klay not sure if they'd be interested in Kevin but the numbers are very close.

My understanding though is Isaac and Orlando's ownership are peas in a pod.
 
Not my favorite get but I think you can make the numbers work. I know Orlando was rumored to want and failed to land Klay not sure if they'd be interested in Kevin but the numbers are very close.

My understanding though is Isaac and Orlando's ownership are peas in a pod.
Do you have a favorite get, that would fit between Murray and Sabonis? If we're assuming that Jackson is not on the table
 
If Carter ends up like Davion then that probably speaks more to the balance of the roster or usage more than anything. It's funny with Carter, people really seem to think he's a PG when while he can play some PG he's not. Or at least he's not stuck there. He's a playmaking SG that should be able to guard multiple positions. Had Davion been that, with the size and athletic ability of Devin he'd still be here. I've seen some of the vids of Devin working out, he looks to have put a little size on as well. He's probably comfortably in that 205-210 range weight wise. With his frame and strength, he's going to be a tough handle for anyone physically.

When it comes to the "4" spot thing, I don't get it either. Brown has played quite a bit of Keegan, Lyles, and Domas together. Lyles IS a 4. Now Jones is taking those minutes and has shared time with Keegan at the 3 as well. The problems continued to persist. We saw it last night, it's the defensive formations and lack of awareness of some of the Kings non defensive oriented players.
No matter who is on the floor with this roster or additional players, if the coaching staff is teaching a scheme that collapses inside of 17 feet and leaves the 3 pt line open, the main problem will not likely improve over the season.
 
Both are realistic but I don't see BKN trading DFS unless they fall out of the playoff hunt. Nance Jr is a solid player. Not really a needle mover but his shooting has been good the last 2 years and he's solid on defense. Downside is he basically always misses about 25-50% of the season.
there are 30 games left for the Nets before the deadline. I’d imagine they will have a good idea where they are after the next 15. I personally expect the Raptors and the Sixers to pass them so they could be 12th pretty quick. They also have a couple young wings they need to get minutes for and I think they keep Cam Johnson. He can fit on any team and has opening stated he wants to stay.
 
who do you view as a rim protecting 4? Off the top of my head I can think of JJJ. Aaron Gordon would be. Chet if you consider him a 4 and not a 5. AD mostly plays center. Jon Isaac. Mobley is. Siakam kinda. Scottie Barnes is more theoretical than in practice. Maybe Jabari Smith although he hasn’t been great at that so far. There really aren’t too many prototypical 4s in the league anymore. The 3 and 4 are mostly interchangeable.

It’s going to be easier to find a rim protecting 5 but then you have to figure that out with Sabonis
Yeah I also don't know about this theoretical rim protecting 4 that people think we need. Yeah it would be great to have one but Mobley, JJJ and Chet don't grow on trees and they certainly aren't available on the trade market for a pair of first round picks plus bench players. Maybe a guy like Boucher is available? I just don't see him moving the needle a ton though. He's not a good outside shooter unless he's playing us.

I just don't think that they're giving up a ton of high percentage 3s because we don't have a rim protecting wing. They need to stop dribble penetration and stop wading into no man's land on defense more than anything. A high percentage 3 is a more efficient shot than challenging Sabonis in the paint and teams are taking advantage of that.

We definitely do need another wing but I don't think Keegan is not playing his part as a 4 adequately on defense. There probably aren't a whole lot of 4s that are defending better than he is.

I think Derrick Jones Jr would have been a nice realistic wing next to Keegan if the Kings were able to get him during the offseason.
The only reason why I even think we need a rim protecting PF is because of Sabonis' short comings as an interior/paint/rim defender. Sabonis is a poor defender no matter how we slice and dice it. Traditionally you expect that rim protection to be coming from your center spot, but he's not one. That means we need our 4 person to pick up the slack and give us some weak side help defense. What we need is someone who can compliment Sabonis and help alleviate some of his shortcomings as a defender.

However, as you both have said, there aren't many realistic options for us at all for that perfect ideal 3&D PF who can block shots at a high level. But this is the reality of centering your team around Sabonis. That's the part where Monte has to get creative and weigh all of your options. Something will have to give. Do you try to find a PF who can help defend the perimeter, but won't give you any rim protection? Or do you find a PF who can give you rim protection, but wouldn't be able to cover the perimeter? Or do you sacrifice defense entirely for a prolific 3pt shooting PF? Or do you meet in the middle and try to find a 3pt shooting PF who gives a little bit of perimeter defense, but no rim protection? Endless combinations that Monte would need to try to key in on. I've suggested Larry Nance Jr before the season started. I've always been part of the PJ Washington fan club. Grant Williams has been a name thrown around for a while now. We've been close to trying for John Collins 2 years in a row it seems like. Precious could've been a "buy-low" candidate. Onyeka is another player. DFS would've been a SF/PF hybrid like Keegan. We flirted around trading for Lauri all summer long, but the Jazz clearly wanted more than the Kings were willing to give. My point being is that all of these players would've brought a different skillset to the table and helped fulfill 1 need or another whether it be shooting at the 4, perimeter defense, interior defense, length, size, etc.

Yes we have Keegan at "PF" but we play him all over the court/perimeter trying to guard the opposing team's best player. Keegan has been a real headache on offense, but he is the sole reason why our defense doesn't get killed. But because we need him all over the floor, it means we don't have anyone with size truly helping Sabonis in the painted area.
 
Carter is a 6'2 195lb combo guard who played 3 years of college basketball and only had 1 good year of 3pt shooting, 1 "good" year of FT shooting, and 1 good year of good rebounding....

I know he has a near 6'9 wingspan, but do people really think he's our longterm answer at SG? he is not playing SF at his size....

draft pick has always made 0 sense to me unless he turns out to be an absolute star. still feels like a wasted pick. he's about to be a 23-year-old rookie who just came off a major surgery on a team where Keon gets DNPd... does he even see minutes on this team? should be a firable offense by Monte considering we could've just packed up that draft pick and unlock us from the Kevin Huerter pick protection fiasco that limits our trading capacity if we were just going to throw away the pick anyways on an older player who would be an extreme disappointment if he's not contributing day 1. because if he's not giving us anything, then why did we even draft him? he's not a 19-year-old kid with sky high potential. this roster construction makes no sense.
 
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