I think Kuzma the player should in theory work great. All about that tag
Potential Free agent/trade/sign tracker
- Thread starter iowamcnabb
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I think Kuzma the player should in theory work great. All about that tag
twslam07
All-Star
Well there goes the hypothetical trade of Collins being included in the Holmes deal (and us getting our 1st back). On to the next…
Really not sure what the allure of Kuzma is. His surface level stats have never been that impressive and I’m not a big fan of his game either. I don’t think of him as the type of player McNair covets but only McNair knows that. Might have to do some more stat deep dives on this guy to see what the hoopla is all about.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Draymond is all but signed. Windy said the Nets will match up to 100 mil for Cam. Naz is signed. Grant is still an option but it looks like GM Lillard wants to retain him.
Kuzma it is. Klutch client. We get better rebounding, better passing, slightly better defensively, bigger, more athletic and younger. Another guy that can score when needed. The only downside to me is it pushes Keegan down to the 4th option instead of the 2/3 he is (imo). He doesn’t have the go take it personality so he is likely to just fall in line. Maybe he will develop that over the next couple years. Talk yourselves into it folks because it’s the most likely outcome.
Kuzma it is. Klutch client. We get better rebounding, better passing, slightly better defensively, bigger, more athletic and younger. Another guy that can score when needed. The only downside to me is it pushes Keegan down to the 4th option instead of the 2/3 he is (imo). He doesn’t have the go take it personality so he is likely to just fall in line. Maybe he will develop that over the next couple years. Talk yourselves into it folks because it’s the most likely outcome.
The surface level isn't great, but a bunch of smart people swear he's an elite defender and he's developed into an elite playmaking wing. And certainly a solid rebounder.
So I dunno. Too much smoke with how many good analytics guys like him. Deep dive absolutely necessary
CarlosBob
G-League
Should we made a move like this one?
SAC receives:
OG Anunoby (19M/1y)
Gary Trent jr. (19M/1y)
Otto Porter (6M/1y)
_____
ATL receives:
Harrison Barnes (S&T 15M/3y)
Precious Achiuwa (4M/1y)
Sac 2nd 2024
Sac 2nd 2025
Sac 2nd 2026
______
TOR receives:
De'Andre Hunter (20M/4y)
Kevin Huerter (16M/3y)
Davion Mitchell (5M/2y)
Sac 1st 2028
Sac 1st 2029 (Pick swap)
______
PG: D. Fox (34) | F. Ntilikina
SG: Gary Trent jr. (27) | M. Monk (29) | C. Jones (12) | K. Ellis
SF: OG Anunoby (33) | K. Edwards | O. Porter
PF: K. Murray (30) | S. Vezenkov (22) | J. Slawson
C: D. Sabonis (34) | T. Lyles (19) | N. Queeta
Who says no?
SAC receives:
OG Anunoby (19M/1y)
Gary Trent jr. (19M/1y)
Otto Porter (6M/1y)
_____
ATL receives:
Harrison Barnes (S&T 15M/3y)
Precious Achiuwa (4M/1y)
Sac 2nd 2024
Sac 2nd 2025
Sac 2nd 2026
______
TOR receives:
De'Andre Hunter (20M/4y)
Kevin Huerter (16M/3y)
Davion Mitchell (5M/2y)
Sac 1st 2028
Sac 1st 2029 (Pick swap)
______
PG: D. Fox (34) | F. Ntilikina
SG: Gary Trent jr. (27) | M. Monk (29) | C. Jones (12) | K. Ellis
SF: OG Anunoby (33) | K. Edwards | O. Porter
PF: K. Murray (30) | S. Vezenkov (22) | J. Slawson
C: D. Sabonis (34) | T. Lyles (19) | N. Queeta
Who says no?
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I've been watching a lot of situational game footage from Kuz and Jerami Grant and at this point, I really think Jerami Grant is the way to go if the Kings are shooting for either. I was watching a good deal of what Grant did in Portland last year and I think he's a guy that can still get you that 20 per game on this team without much work. Kuz might be able to, but he's going to cut into the offense a bit to do it. Grant plays more under control with and without the ball where as Kuz will tend to kind of reset the offense on his own and call out a big for pick and roll hoping to get a running start at the defense. Both definitely would provide gains option wise at times but Grant is much more under control in the pocket as a face up scorer. He's really good at navigating doubles as well and dribbling in the middle of the paint and assessing his options. Grant's also tweaked his spot 3 a little which gives me reason to believe that his typical contract year production and efficiency might not dip this time since he'll be able to rip off threes more effectively on catch and shoot.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
He's an upgrade but there would definitely be times where Kings fans on this board rate him as enemy number 1 and call to dump him for nothing when he stalls the offense, backs off to around the half court line and launches a falling 3 hahaha. Ironically enough, I think he ends up the PF version replacement of Buddy Hield. Both approach the game in a very similar manner with a very erratic nature to their games.
That's his perception for sure, but why are some of his impact metrics so good? And Grants so poor?
Overall don't feel great about a big spend on either, but Monte pretty much put himself on a corner to make a splash FA call. Can't leave this offseason with Vezenkov and Colby Jones as the major additions
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
There's something to be said about that but I think a Buddy mentality player is closer to what's needed, but it's a gamble. If Barnes were more aggressive he would be the perfect answer but it's just not his makeup. My biggest concern with Kuz is that historically his productions levels sink when he moves from a 1/2 option to a 2/3/4. His efficiency seems to go up and down regardless of his option status.
BenchMob
Bench
On the surface not impressed with Kuzma as well but maybe Brown can unlock some defense/new attitude from him who knows
captain bill
All-Star
I know the "Middle Manager Monte" moniker has fallen out of favor but he's proven to be patient. I think there's something to be said for standing pat with our cap space* until the right deal comes along, including possible midseason acquisitions
*assuming the upcoming Domas extension won't evaporate that room, in which case yes that money needs to be spent now to add depth, although I'd prefer it spread around more guys on decent contracts versus going for the big splash like someone like Kuz and possibly ending up in cap hell without flexibility if it's a miserable addition.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Impact metrics, on what team? A losing Wiz, a bench player early in his career, or next to one of the greatest of all time in LeBron? Kuzma's impact metrics aren't superstar level regardless but don't get lost in metrics like raptor stats although even those in total have him 5 spots behind Grant at 132nd in the league. They are both by those numbers around the same. The offense is where they separate.
Kuzma's offensive metrics are around that Oubre, Clarkson level and if we're talking 25-30 million per that's what you're paying for. Which is better than what the Kings have but this is a comparison between options and value. On the Wiz Kuz was a pretty consistent 1st option type with a usg a tick under Fox (0.5 under) and was allowed to create for his teammates based off of that. Will that happen with the Kings? It could, but if not his history shows a decline in productivity in direct relation to declining usage percentages. Grant however when having had similar bounces in usage seems to still maintain his levels of productivity as a scorer.
Kuz' defensive win shares always seem to be offset by his offensive numbers and thus marginal total WS numbers. Grant has had pretty darn good WS numbers for the last 5-6 years and appears to be the better of both worlds.
Here are some WS numbers between the two:
Grant has averaged a 3.2 win share average over the last 3 seasons whereas Kuz has averaged 2.06. WS/48 Grant is almost double Kuz for his career and in the last 3 seasons with similar usage is around a .08 average compared to Kuz at a .02 average. That's a pretty significant gap.
In terms of DWS, both are under the level of a Draymond Green type by far. Kuz and Grant are usually within 1 of eachother though. Kuz having a slight advantage but as said, Kuz having a flatlined offensive win share average eradicates most of those gains.
Now, in terms of individual defensive ratings Kuz was at 47th in the league, Grant was like 200 something. However the year before last, flip those numbers. Grant was over a 100 spots higher. Thus proving individual defensive ratings are crap. Completely useless crap. As most stats are these days, lol.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Oh and in looking at WS numbers, Christian Wood is better than both Grant and Kuz. The only downside is that he's mostly been playing C the last few seasons.
Right now my list of big money targets in FA would be:
1. Jerami Grant
2. Draymond Green
3. Kyle Kuzma
4. Christian Wood
Right now my list of big money targets in FA would be:
1. Jerami Grant
2. Draymond Green
3. Kyle Kuzma
4. Christian Wood
I have a hard time believing that Kyle Kuzma is a player that Monte McNair would target. Statistically speaking he's been awful in basically every facet of the game. He shoots a huge volume of threes and makes them at about the same rate as De'Aaron Fox. He's also a poor rebounder and to complete the trifecta, he's a non-factor on defense. The only time his teams have had a winning record is when he played with Lebron James and Anthony Davis. What is the appeal with this guy? His counting stats look decent but when you factor in his efficiency, usage rate, defensive metrics, and insanely high turnover rate for an off-ball player he actually represents negative value. In other words, anyone who cares about advanced stats would pay not to have this guy on their team.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Too much depth to be honest. HB, Lyles, Sasha, and Wagner is far too many bodies, not enough minutes. That's Vlade level stacking. If they brought in that kind of depth expecting that one or two of those guys are basically the new Len/TD then fine because they'll have to be. Being 10 deep is just setting yourself up to cut two of those guys come playoff time anyway, 12 deep is just pointless.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Grant is also a better defender and would ratchet things up on that end going into a playoff series. He can guard 3, 4, and small 5
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Yeah, in watching Kuz and him they are different. Kuz is more of a gambling type of defender. He'll swipe, he'll chase down, etc. He creates more highlights whereas Grant is kind of more based on squaring up and positioning. Athletically Kuz is a gazelle and actually doesn't back down from contact but Grant has more heft and strength for sure.
I will say for both that it's quite impressive in terms how much they have developed as players having not really payed super close attention to either the last few seasons. Grant made the right call going to Detroit. He's come such a long way with his offensive skill. Kuz is still kind of working based on natural talent but he does have talent for sure. Grant is more under control, Kuz is more boom/bust on both ends.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Yeah, I view Grant as a player that I would have more confidence in, for a long playoff run. Based on what saw from him when he was with Denver. He was a real valuable piece for them. I like him better than Aaron Gordon with that type of a roster that can contend.
I do believe the Kings are a real contender with him
captain bill
All-Star
Obviously biased opinion but we're pretty clearly the most attractive team on this list. FO should be able to get their top target, absent some other team massively overpaying them
CarlosBob
G-League
Could be possible a trade with the Rockets for Tari Eason? I don't know if we could add more assets in a trade that would involve H. Barnes after a S&T or if in that type of trade is only allowed the trade directly for the player who signs this new contract.
The Rockets are extremely young, they could use a good guy next to their young core who helps them to create a good culture in their organization.
They also have just drafted Cam Whitmore, another good SF/PF prospect who are going to add to Kenyon Martin jr. and Jabari Smith jr. (and Tari Eason). They also were linked with Dillon Brooks as a veteran leader, and I think that every organization in the league with a young core would be more interested in a player like HB as a mentor of those young prospects than in a guy as Brooks.
I don't know however if HB alone will makes them give us a promising sophomore player as Tari. If is allowed to add some assets I wouldn't be against to add Davion to the trade or a future 1st pick or even the TPE created in the Holmes trade that helps them to adquire two stars (Harden and Brook?). Then we could find a reserve PG in FA (Jevon Carter, Dennis Smith jr.). But I really like the idea of Tari Eason, a very good rebounder who showed some moments of good defense and a promising 3pt shot last year in his rookie season.
The Rockets are extremely young, they could use a good guy next to their young core who helps them to create a good culture in their organization.
They also have just drafted Cam Whitmore, another good SF/PF prospect who are going to add to Kenyon Martin jr. and Jabari Smith jr. (and Tari Eason). They also were linked with Dillon Brooks as a veteran leader, and I think that every organization in the league with a young core would be more interested in a player like HB as a mentor of those young prospects than in a guy as Brooks.
I don't know however if HB alone will makes them give us a promising sophomore player as Tari. If is allowed to add some assets I wouldn't be against to add Davion to the trade or a future 1st pick or even the TPE created in the Holmes trade that helps them to adquire two stars (Harden and Brook?). Then we could find a reserve PG in FA (Jevon Carter, Dennis Smith jr.). But I really like the idea of Tari Eason, a very good rebounder who showed some moments of good defense and a promising 3pt shot last year in his rookie season.
captain bill
All-Star
With all the talk of Jerami Grant what about Grant Williams? Versatile defender who's shot a combined 40% from 3 the last 2 years. Put Monk / Huerter / Keegan / Williams behind the 3 point line and force defenses to guard Domas straight up
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
It might be feasible to get someone like Williams and another nice piece to go with him too.
Grant Williams been my guy for awhile. Excellent way to upgrade the defense, but don't lose your offensive spacing.
serbiangoat
Starter
Yeah he's looking more likely after the Celtics tanked his value, my only concern with a Sabonis/Williams/Huerter/Murray line up with Fox is that you have zero lob threats for Fox when he gets into the lane and only Fox as a lob threat for Sabonis. I think the Kings should try copy the Nuggets in some way and get a above the rim 4 (AG/MPJ) to feast on Fox's attack/Sabonis passing. But Grant on a middle tier to cheap deal is way better than paying for Kuzma/Barnes/Grant. If the Kings could get both Grant Williams and Christian Wood that would be great.
Assuming the Kings get Grant why would they keep/sign either Lyles or Vezenkov? They would be better off looking for a explosive SF.
via James Ham @ Kings Beat
According to a league source, the Kings have had discussions with Barnes on a potential extension in the last few weeks, but those conversations went quiet. He might be the best option for continuity’s sake, as long as McNair can add depth in free agency or through trade.
According to a league source, the Kings have had discussions with Barnes on a potential extension in the last few weeks, but those conversations went quiet. He might be the best option for continuity’s sake, as long as McNair can add depth in free agency or through trade.
