What was the original? I got banned from twitter yesterday and apparently my punishment is only seeing doom posts today no hoops.
Potential Free agent/trade/sign tracker
- Thread starter iowamcnabb
- Start date
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Patrick Williams seems like the best kind of target if they think they are that desperate at F and the Kings didn't have to touch any real assets. His contract is OK, the length is meh at this point, but with these aprons if players don't produce, like actually produce, values on players like that are going to vary greatly. The days of signing pure 3 and D players to huge contracts could become less common due to the possibility of becoming cap anchors and therefore pretty easy to trade for at some point. Bruce Brown being the latest example with players like KCP in waiting. I think the target range for those players is around the MLE give or take.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
The Kings could always use more athletic ability and Collins brings that as well. Far more than shooting IMO. If Collins is still a freebie trade wise, a 2nd rounder + salary, he's a why not gamble which is the only deals Monte should be looking at right now to begin with. Especially when you consider his contract doesn't interfere with things like re-signing players or using the MLE at some point.
Joshyjosh31
Starter
It's one of those moves I guess where if it doesn't work we're stuck with a guy for 2-3 years instead of an expiring next year if all else fails.
I'm actually surprised at this though:
Joshyjosh31
Starter
This isn’t a good look for Pat
I am not saying that Collins wouldn't be an improvement over our bench bigs but imo they need defense under the basket more then offense so if there is a trade I would prefer that they address that.Eye test and advanced stats ( and not only on Jazz) show him as a negative on d.
No, he's been outright dreadful this season. Of course, so has Huerter. . .
As I said, I'm not even sure I like the deal. The upside is that it balances the roster a bit and Williams is just 23 so there's the chance he bounces back somewhat. The downside is the length of his deal and well, his play the last season or so of games.
Him being the worst at defending shooters is quite surprising...To me there is a huge difference in watching Huerter defend vs Williams, but stats don't lie I guess
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
His DFG% last year was a lot better. I think the eye test alone shows that both Williams and especially Dosunmu have defensive chops or at least potential. I remember reading that the stat can jump depending on how a team defends since it's mostly rated based on distance to the shooter so if multiple players are in the area it's a crapshoot. I do think it's better in some ways than ratings or some of these other stats. I really like the shooting stats where you break it down by area. Williams is actually pretty good defending away from the rim. He's between 33 and 34% given up beyond 20 feet. Again, in a league of 3 pointers that's the stat to look at. He's actually more effective than Keon or Keegan who are actually pretty average at getting players to miss shots although almost everyone on the team is climbing since DC took over. And my goodness, even with the spotty role Devin Carter has been insane. He's giving up around 24% when defending beyond 20 feet. In glancing at the Bulls charts the correlation? If Vuc is your center? You're F'd, lol. Their good defenders are getting killed in the paint.
Joshyjosh31
Starter
I would take the deal if it was Huerter and one second but Monte has talked about bad contracts so I don’t think he’d pull the trigger
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I agree, but if they are just looking to add talent go for something you don't have much of rather than pile on to what you do. Johnson doesn't bring anything the Kings don't have other than height which isn't worth the farm. Collins and Monk running the break alone would be a totally new dynamic. It's certainly not worth value asset wise, but as a test it could work. I think just hanging onto Lyles is a better bet but if Monte doesn't see him in the long term plans then flipping him for a test run on someone else makes sense.
That would make sense given the eye test , Vuc and Lavine are notoriously horrible defenders
I don't think that's true anymore. 2 years ago when HB/Huerter/Keegan were all 40%+, you'd have a point, but we're a flat out bad shooting team this year. Take away Domas and Keon, we're last place... by a ton.
Cam's also really developed as a passer the last few years and he's shown more on-ball scoring. But the primary directive; shooting, particularly from the wing slot, is a massive need.
Again, it depends on the price. Huerter+FRP+scraps is fine. Anything more than that or paying a "star" package for him is where you get in trouble.
Joshyjosh31
Starter
This makes sense
We don’t have an elite shooter on the team Cam is elite while not being a bad defender at 6’7. Also Derozan is 36 I believe he’s not lebron and doesn’t have lebron EPO guy Cam can start for us in his place starting next year.
The other downside is that Huerter is our salary-match piece. Basically any deal that's going to bring back anything of consequence at the deadline is going to involve Huerter. So if we trade for Williams, that's THE trade. That's it. And given that he has stunk it up for the last year, maybe that's not THE trade to go after.
Well, we do. I firmly believe Keegan and Huerter are, but they aren't performing this year. Keon and Domas are. So either you gamble on them (Keegan) to continue to turn-around the shooting as he's done the last 8 games or so or you go find the solution in the trade market.
I think there's a case to be made to just double and triple down on offense and adding another real nightly 18-20 PPG threat to the LU. Not that he'd have the same role/USG here, but him increasing his USG this season and massively increasing his efficiency is very impressive and very hard to do. The Kings identity always had to be an offensive juggernaut; Cam just makes that better.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
We have to see where it goes because adding someone like DDR makes a team less reliant on shooting in some ways. At least movement shooting. Spot shooting only has so much value right now. Since Christie took over the Kings have climbed from 21st in 3 point % to 9th. Also from the cellar to around the mid point line in catch and shoot 3 point percentage, but with so few games under him even that last game dropped them as they were even higher. Also context matters. Just like PACE cratered come playoff time last season, catch and shoot 3's gave way to pull up shooting as stars do what they have to during the big games and that's get you buckets. Huerter and a 1st wouldn't kill things but if you can get something not too far under like Collins with no 1sts I think that's a better move to make.
I think there's no shot you get Collins for under a 1st. If you could, amazing do that. But I'd guess that the Collins tag and Cam tag end up being pretty similar; contract+1 FRP+random other scraps thrown in
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
If Keegan keeps going the way he has since Christie took over, the Kings do. And I think the Kings have proven you can't have too many players looking to run screen plays. Again, it's a question of value and opportunity. If you're paying for the Cam you're seeing with a system looking to get him shots you're probably going to be disappointed in relation to cost. Especially if he wasn't the "missing piece". Heck, there probably some people around that would have put money down on the Kings not turning anything around unless they traded for him or someone like him. You have to consider all of these things and I still think more time is needed and Monte has some.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Yeah, then screw that. The Jazz got Collins for a 2nd and while Collins is producing, he never seemed to get that value the Hawks were looking for. If the deal were Huerter/Lyles/2nd then the value is you're cutting some of that Collins deal off their books since I think he has a pricey option as it is.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
No value though, again, save up that MLE space and just purely add someone like him in the summer. The market should have options and with the apron stuff now that will give a team with even a little wiggle room major advantages if they can swing a full MLE without scraping the enter at your own risk zones.
Collins is an Ainge asset now. History seems to suggest that Ainge assets always end up being costly.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Then let him cost them 21 million as a 6th man next season... again. He'll be a FA the season after. Let some other team get desperate, with the recent turn around Monte should be in the drivers seat on any deals.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
The issue is that all the trade pieces that would fit this roster, always seem to go for more than they're willing to give up.
It's a tough spot, but at some point they will probably have to give up a lot to get an established missing piece. Otherwise your top players won't be convinced that you're doing enough to give the team a chance to become a contender.
If they're thinking of trading Fox for a huge package, then sure go ahead and wait it out. If not, then they really should take a swing and make a move before this deadline
In other words, Houston is offering nothing. RW III is still my preferred trade target for this year's deadline. Valanciunas would would be a solid backup big on a bargain contract but Williams would solve a bigger problem for us and give us a true defensive anchor PF/C at last. At least until he gets injured again anyway. He's still young enough that there's some possibility of career reclamation there if the training staff can correctly assess what's keeping him off the court and come up with a preventative maintenance plan.
Joshyjosh31
Starter
I know we don’t like Ham but allegedly Brooklyn wants an unprotected first and Sac wants it to be lottery protected. If it’s just one pick just meet in the middle and make it top three protected that pick shouldn’t stop us from getting a major talent upgrade especially if we can get Sharpe thrown in to net the loss of Lyle’s
I’d honestly be happy with any of Collins, Cam, JV, or RW111. I do however think we might be best getting someone that can play PF/C rather than SF/PF or just center. Just need to get Domas a legit backup and it would be a big benefit if they could also play the floor together.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I’d give them the 31 first if we decide to go down that route. It’s not likely to be a high pick and we would have a clean slate 26-30
