Potential Free agent/trade/sign tracker

[The_Jamal]

I personally think we already have that forward in Keegan. He is essentially the same size as Aaron Gordon, about 9 pounds less in listed weight and same height. Keegan is already stronger than half the forwards in the league and imo he will only get bigger. I’ve said this before but I met his dad once and was shocked how big he was. Genetically he has a good chance of filling out a bit more and get even stronger. He’s also a great offensive rebounder and he blocks a shot nearly every game. We do need more size on the team in general so hopefully we can find that

It really makes no sense to me that people STILL think the right way to build around Sabonis is to pair him with another big man. He's literally been a top 10 player the second he's put on a Kings uni by playing C. And we have a huge sample with him playing with Myles Turner (about as ideal a "big" you could think to pair with Domas) of him not being nearly as effective.

The narrative that Keegan isn't a "4" is just bad and wrong. Guy was literally the best player in the country at the 4 and even small-ball 5. When he came out the worry was that he'd be too much of a tweener and wouldn't show enough perimeter skills.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

My issue with not having a "4" is not to be the starter it's to be against teams where what is effectively a 3 guard lineup with Keegan and Domas doesn't work. It has happened and will happen again. You run into that team in a win or go home game and you're screwed if you can't even make the adjustment.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Is that a four team deal I saw

 

[twslam07]

I wouldn’t want Jimmy Butler here. Swapping him in for DeRozan doesn’t move the needle that much if at all. We need a proper big man to pair with Sabonis and slide Keegan into a more traditional forward position. We would instantly get bigger/longer and it would really bring some balance to the roster. You can run Fox and Monk together in the starting lineup if you have Keegan, X, and Sabonis out there. Ideally a mobile big man or larger forward that can defend well and shoot some.

I mean I’m not opposed of going the other route you mentioned. I’ve been on the record countless times that ideally you want to surround Sabonis with size, length, athleticism, defense, and shooting. However, Butler is a star level talent and perhaps that helps make up for it (especially since he is so strong and plays tough).

As for a DeRozan for Butler swap not moving the needle at all, I disagree. Butler is a superior player in my book. Even looking at their advanced impact stats show their is a significant gap…

VPM: Butler = 15th / DeRozan = 124th
EPM: Butler = 22nd / DeRozan = 144th
LEBRON: Butler = 25th / DeRozan = 84th
DARKO: Butler = 18th / DeRozan = 127th
RAPM (2Y): Butler = 50th / DeRozan = 66th

I think it’s safe to say Butler’s impact on the floor is considerably higher than DeRozan’s impact.

 

[Sac.Kings]

It really makes no sense to me that people STILL think the right way to build around Sabonis is to pair him with another big man. He's literally been a top 10 player the second he's put on a Kings uni by playing C. And we have a huge sample with him playing with Myles Turner (about as ideal a "big" you could think to pair with Domas) of him not being nearly as effective.

The narrative that Keegan isn't a "4" is just bad and wrong. Guy was literally the best player in the country at the 4 and even small-ball 5. When he came out the worry was that he'd be too much of a tweener and wouldn't show enough perimeter skills.

My argument to yours is that Keegan’s production has fallen off a cliff. Points, percentages, you name it. We have relegated our top pick and a promising young player to just play defense, scrap, and rebound. Some talk about him having star potential, and yet we treat him like any team would treat a role player at best. We are stunting his growth and potentially our own future by relegating him to only one side of the ball.

I get your point, but you can’t tell me he’s improved overall from last year. That screams mismanagement to me. Why would a hard working young player who lives and breathes this game suddenly regress? No one has sacrificed his game more than Keegan and I’m sure he did so willingly… but make no mistake we have not put him in the best position to be successful.

 

[chief bromden]

Orlando Robinson just waived by the Kings. Maybe just so his contract isn't guaranteed for the rest of the season? Or maybe a trade on the horizon?

 

[The_Jamal]

My argument to yours is that Keegan’s production has fallen off a cliff. Points, percentages, you name it. We have relegated our top pick and a promising young player to just play defense, scrap, and rebound. Some talk about him having star potential, and yet we treat him like any team would treat a role player at best. We are stunting his growth and potentially our own future by relegating him to only one side of the ball.

I get your point, but you can’t tell me he’s improved overall from last year. That screams mismanagement to me. Why would a hard working young player who lives and breathes this game suddenly regress? No one has sacrificed his game more than Keegan and I’m sure he did so willingly… but make no mistake we have not put him in the best position to be successful.

Defensively, he has and on the glass he has. He's pretty much developed in those areas EXACTLY how we hoped he would 2 years ago after that playoff series.

The issue has been his regression in shooting. Not really sure what how or what to evaluate what's going on there, but that's what made him so promising as a rookie, and that's disappeared this season. The key is to find that stroke again, with the defense and with the rebounding. He's also taken a pretty big USG hit with DeRozan, but I also think some of his lack of aggressiveness has been tied to him not hitting shots and losing confidence.

I mean last night, 4-6 3's, 14-12 on 10 shots and played outstanding defense. How many wings are capable of that? If he became 15-8 and a volume 3pt shooter at 37% with his defense... I'll gladly take that any day of the week. It's not all-star type stuff, but it's still an incredibly rare archetype that every single NBA team would kill for. And the exact archetype you want and need in the playoffs.

 

[twslam07]

Orlando Robinson just waived by the Kings. Maybe just so his contract isn't guaranteed for the rest of the season? Or maybe a trade on the horizon?

His contract was fully guaranteed on 1/10 so they probably wanted to cut him now and save the money vs. waiting for a trade to happen and be forced to cut him and eat his full salary.

 

[iowamcnabb]

His contract was fully guaranteed on 1/10 so they probably wanted to cut him now and save the money vs. waiting for a trade to happen and be forced to cut him and eat his full salary.

is there word on Doug? It was the same thing for him

 

[iowamcnabb]

is there word on Doug? It was the same thing for him

I see Doug and Jae have been guaranteed

 

[iowamcnabb]

I wonder if Orlando still signs with Stockton

 

[Makaveli]

Debo, huerter, McLaughlin for jimmy butler

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Debo, huerter, McLaughlin for jimmy butler

How anyone can want that idiot is beyond me

 

[Sac.Kings]

Defensively, he has and on the glass he has. He's pretty much developed in those areas EXACTLY how we hoped he would 2 years ago after that playoff series.

The issue has been his regression in shooting. Not really sure what how or what to evaluate what's going on there, but that's what made him so promising as a rookie, and that's disappeared this season. The key is to find that stroke again, with the defense and with the rebounding. He's also taken a pretty big USG hit with DeRozan, but I also think some of his lack of aggressiveness has been tied to him not hitting shots and losing confidence.

I mean last night, 4-6 3's, 14-12 on 10 shots and played outstanding defense. How many wings are capable of that? If he became 15-8 and a volume 3pt shooter at 37% with his defense... I'll gladly take that any day of the week. It's not all-star type stuff, but it's still an incredibly rare archetype that every single NBA team would kill for. And the exact archetype you want and need in the playoffs.

I’m definitely not questioning his worth, he has the potential to be a great and impactful player. DeRozan being here has certainly played a factor in his usage rate, no doubt about that, but we just don’t use him to his main strengths. Yes he had a good game last night, but he’s had some real duds too. Even with his improvement on defense and rebounding, I would classify his season thus far as a disappointment overall.

If Monk is going to be a starter moving forward, I would argue that Keegan is a more natural fit to Fox and Monk than DeRozan is. But he’s largely regressed now to spot up shots and occasional drive to the hoop. It’s still a work in progress so I’m not firmly stuck in this belief, but I do have concerns about how we are using him.

 

[SacTownKid]

It really makes no sense to me that people STILL think the right way to build around Sabonis is to pair him with another big man. He's literally been a top 10 player the second he's put on a Kings uni by playing C. And we have a huge sample with him playing with Myles Turner (about as ideal a "big" you could think to pair with Domas) of him not being nearly as effective.

The narrative that Keegan isn't a "4" is just bad and wrong. Guy was literally the best player in the country at the 4 and even small-ball 5. When he came out the worry was that he'd be too much of a tweener and wouldn't show enough perimeter skills.

And we are now seeing Keegans rebounding and tipping balls out on the offensive side be almost as important if not more than his shooting in year 1. No, it doesn't always read in the stat sheets but Keegan is far more versatile at the 4 than as a spot shooting wing who isn't asked to mix it up inside.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1876727069452702123

Cam Johnson salary is at 22 million so we wouldn’t have to give up Lyle’s to stay under the tax. Other players we could trade for and keep Lyle’s while staying under the tax Kuzma, Hunter, Jonas, Bruce Brown, Isiah Stewart, and Patrick Williams

We could trade for Collins but we’d have to give up Lyle’s to I’d rather make a trade that allows us to keep Lyle’s for his size and shooting

 

[SacTownKid]

My issue with not having a "4" is not to be the starter it's to be against teams where what is effectively a 3 guard lineup with Keegan and Domas doesn't work. It has happened and will happen again. You run into that team in a win or go home game and you're screwed if you can't even make the adjustment.

The "4" right now though is Lyles. We still have to see what Carter does with more opportunity. So far, the rebounding is better than most F's so if that maintains that's a huge plus. When Fox comes back the issue is going to be how do you bench either Ellis or Carter? DC better start really running 3 guard lineups to see if it works because if it does, then Monte's life becomes infinitely easier because his needs to find a big prize via trade is totally minimized.

 

[SacTownKid]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1876727069452702123

Cam Johnson salary is at 22 million so we wouldn’t have to give up Lyle’s to stay under the tax. Other players we could trade for and keep Lyle’s while staying under the tax Kuzma, Hunter, Jonas, Bruce Brown, Isiah Stewart, and Patrick Williams

We could trade for Collins but we’d have to give up Lyle’s to I’d rather make a trade that allows us to keep Lyle’s for his size and shooting

I think word was Cam's hitting his markers for a bonus so he's actually at 27 most likely.

 

[The_Jamal]

I’m definitely not questioning his worth, he has the potential to be a great and impactful player. DeRozan being here has certainly played a factor in his usage rate, no doubt about that, but we just don’t use him to his main strengths. Yes he had a good game last night, but he’s had some real duds too. Even with his improvement on defense and rebounding, I would classify his season thus far as a disappointment overall.

If Monk is going to be a starter moving forward, I would argue that Keegan is a more natural fit to Fox and Monk than DeRozan is. But he’s largely regressed now to spot up shots and occasional drive to the hoop. It’s still a work in progress so I’m not firmly stuck in this belief, but I do have concerns about how we are using him.

yeah it's certainly 1 huge downside of now starting Monk and bringing in a big USG guy like DDR. The hope was that Keegan could build on his 19% USG last year, but it's really just fallen to what the HB role was last season.

I'm also trying to just keep in perspective that Keegan's in the middle of his 3rd season and he's still just 24 years old. There's time to figure out what's going on with his shot and hopefully see progress with his offense. We certainly have with his defense where he was a guy that was hunted in that playoff series by GS, to now being a straight up stopper and one of the most versatile defensive wings in the entire NBA.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

I think word was Cam's hitting his markers for a bonus so he's actually at 27 most likely.

That’s right I forgot about that does his injury and missing mg games not affect his bonus

 

[iowamcnabb]

That’s right I forgot about that does his injury and missing mg games not affect his bonus

Keith Smith said they are “unlikely bonuses” but apparently it doesn’t matter whether he gets them or not, they still have to be figured into any trade from a cap perspective.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I see Doug and Jae have been guaranteed

Kind of surprising that Crowder got guaranteed since he has only played 5 minutes in the last month, but I guess we have to have 14 contracts.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Keith Smith said they are “unlikely bonuses” but apparently it doesn’t matter whether he gets them or not, they still have to be figured into any trade from a cap perspective.

Note that they have to be accounted for not in terms of salary matching, but in terms of apron caps. Due to the DDR S&T, we are not allowed to exceed the first apron for any reason, and since Cam's contract can possibly get up to $27M, we would have to make those bonuses, however unlikely, fit under the first apron. But they don't count for salary matching in the trade, his contract is $22.5M for trade salary-match purposes.

 

[iowamcnabb]

If we are committed to playing our starters plus Carter and Keon that leaves 2 spots open in a 9 man rotation. If Lyles is the 8th guy then Monte will have to figure out the best way to upgrade the 9th. Or maybe he doesn’t do that at all and rides it out.

 

[Tetsujin]

Kind of surprising that Crowder got guaranteed since he has only played 5 minutes in the last month, but I guess we have to have 14 contracts.

don’t underestimate how much the Kings value his veteran leadership (and I actually mean it this time). Wouldn’t be surprised if he hung it up this summer and the Kings brought him onto their staff to fill the slot vacated by DC’s promotion.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

The "4" right now though is Lyles. We still have to see what Carter does with more opportunity. So far, the rebounding is better than most F's so if that maintains that's a huge plus. When Fox comes back the issue is going to be how do you bench either Ellis or Carter? DC better start really running 3 guard lineups to see if it works because if it does, then Monte's life becomes infinitely easier because his needs to find a big prize via trade is totally minimized.

But Lyles isn't really the sort of player I'm talking about. Which is a bully. We really don't have one aside from Domas in certain matchups and Len.

The nice thing is we don't really have to break the bank for that player either. Someone like Beef Stew who was rumored to be available at one point. Should be noted with Detroit's win at Portland last night they are now a .500 club and in 7th in the East.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

If we are committed to playing our starters plus Carter and Keon that leaves 2 spots open in a 9 man rotation. If Lyles is the 8th guy then Monte will have to figure out the best way to upgrade the 9th. Or maybe he doesn’t do that at all and rides it out.

How do you justify not making a move cause you won some games it actually pisses me off to even think of that. Actually contenders are looking to get better every time regardless of winning streaks. OKC saw a weakness and instantly got Hartenstin and Caruso, Dallas saw a weakness mid season got gafford and PJ and we gave Monte excuses for not getting PJ when he would’ve been perfect. Here we are a non playoff team picking up Robin Lopez and cash considerations

OKC the best team in the west can “ride it out” because they have Caruso and there second best player Chet returning but no there in the Cam Johnson conversation. The only team that should be comfortable is Boston not the kings cause they won five games Monte better get fired if he doesn’t improve a team with multiple glaring weakness just cause we got closer to the tenth.

 

[SacTownKid]

But Lyles isn't really the sort of player I'm talking about. Which is a bully. We really don't have one aside from Domas in certain matchups and Len.

The nice thing is we don't really have to break the bank for that player either. Someone like Beef Stew who was rumored to be available at one point. Should be noted with Detroit's win at Portland last night they are now a .500 club and in 7th in the East.

I'm kind of hoping that player is already here in the form of Jones myself. If the Kings replace Lyles, which it would have to be to even matter, I still think the best option is with something like the MLE. There will be options this summer. Both Portis and Nance Jr. could be available for instance. Unless it's Huerter and minimal value I think trading for that is a mistake even when the Kings current hot streak runs out of steam. As always when you're trying to find answers that might be 7-9 deep in your rotation you have to work the minutes out. Ellis and Carter project to be 30+ mpg players. Especially Carter. I doubt his per 48's will maintain at this level but he's producing almost at like early Cuz levels so far, as a guard! He very well should be far beyond a typical 3 and D type. Even if he ends up a role guy because his scoring never hits it's potential, he's looking like a guard version of Draymond where he checks almost every box statistically as a very productive defender/glue guy.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I'm kind of hoping that player is already here in the form of Jones myself. If the Kings replace Lyles, which it would have to be to even matter, I still think the best option is with something like the MLE. There will be options this summer. Both Portis and Nance Jr. could be available for instance. Unless it's Huerter and minimal value I think trading for that is a mistake even when the Kings current hot streak runs out of steam. As always when you're trying to find answers that might be 7-9 deep in your rotation you have to work the minutes out. Ellis and Carter project to be 30+ mpg players. Especially Carter. I doubt his per 48's will maintain at this level but he's producing almost at like early Cuz levels so far, as a guard! He very well should be far beyond a typical 3 and D type. Even if he ends up a role guy because his scoring never hits it's potential, he's looking like a guard version of Draymond where he checks almost every box statistically as a very productive defender/glue guy.

Jones could be that but he hasn't really gotten much run from Christie which I thought was surprising. Looks like he had 3 DNPs and then sent to Stockton with just 1:24 played vs. Dallas.

 

[The_Jamal]

How do you justify not making a move cause you won some games it actually pisses me off to even think of that. Actually contenders are looking to get better every time regardless of winning streaks. OKC saw a weakness and instantly got Hartenstin and Caruso, Dallas saw a weakness mid season got gafford and PJ and we gave Monte excuses for not getting PJ when he would’ve been perfect. Here we are a non playoff team picking up Robin Lopez and cash considerations

OKC the best team in the west can “ride it out” because they have Caruso and there second best player Chet returning but no there in the Cam Johnson conversation. The only team that should be comfortable is Boston not the kings cause they won five games Monte better get fired if he doesn’t improve a team with multiple glaring weakness just cause we got closer to the tenth.

It is sort of a complicated situation to handle though. Because what's the move? Just start going down the line

Trade Fox? Eh, maybe if you can get a star wing or a bunch of draft capital coming back. Move forward with Monk/Carter/Keon. But just trading a top 15 player just to shake things up seems like a drastic move.

Trade Monk? Again, you could, but why? He's been awesome again this season and is on an incredible value contract.

Trade Keon or DC? Nope, don't trade 2 guys who can transform your defense on rookie deals. In Keon's case, he already has.

Trade Keegan? You could, but for what? He's such a key component of our defense and his down year offensively probably has his value muted. Like would anyone be happy if he was the piece that went out in a trade for Jerami Grant or Cam Johnson? I certainly wouldn't.

Trade Domas? No

Trade Lyles? Again, you could, but he's been awesome off the bench since he came back from injury. He's basically playing his role to perfection. In the right deal, you trade him of course, but he's not someone I'd trade just to trade.

Trade DDR? Not untradeable of course, but it'd be a little "off" to deal a guy like him 35 games into us signing him to the big contract. I feel like it's generally frowned upon to immediately go flip the guy you signed in FA, especially if your team isn't totally bad/out of the playoff hunt. This isn't 2K.

Huerter is the guy who needs to go, but we're also looking at a team situation here where we have 8 guys we feel pretty good about being the top of the rotation. Unless we want to trade a core rotation guy, there's not a whole lot of room here. If we could use him to shore up the back-up C and bring in a back-wing guy (thinking like Bob Williams+Thybulle, Martin+Richards sort of deals), that would be my vote for us to go after this deadline.