Pacers' O'Neal Wants Bonzi

brad miller was right about the fickleness of sacramento kings fans now!

Half of you guys/gals before the year were all over hating on having bonzi here in sac, and now your all over his jock! last year it was all about how great peja was an now because of his recent struggles it is all over!

The list just keeps going on and on! Most of you guys/gals will never be happy if the kings win the bench sucked, if they lose, its trade everyone.

fick·le adj.
Characterized by erratic changeableness or instability, especially with regard to affections or attachments; capricious.

fickleness
n : unfaithfulness by virtue of being unreliable or treacherous

brad miller had it to a T!
 
thesanityannex said:
Foretaz is right. He has obviously watched and paid more attention to Artest than probably anyone here. All he has is praise for his basketball skills. The two of you have repeatedly quoted this and that about his personal life, only negative things though. Has he messed up so bad in your eyes, that you can't recognize his talent?
Hey I never said he is not talented ofcourse he is, But his negative outweigh his talent
 
thesanityannex said:
Foretaz is right. He has obviously watched and paid more attention to Artest than probably anyone here. All he has is praise for his basketball skills. The two of you have repeatedly quoted this and that about his personal life, only negative things though. Has he messed up so bad in your eyes, that you can't recognize his talent?
The negative in his personal life doesn't stay in his personal life. It causes problems all around him. I knew a brilliantly talented lawyer. He was an alcoholic in his personal life. Guess what? His personal life completely overshadowed his brilliance and talent, not to mention really screwed over a lot of people who depended on him. Unfortunately, you can't separate talent and personal life like they are totally unrelated. And RA's personal problems have most definitely caused problems in the "workplace." And maybe Foretaz is right and the Pacers have plenty of other problems, but that doesn't mean that Artest isn't one of the problems.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Diehard Jim said:
brad miller was right about the fickleness of sacramento kings fans now!

Half of you guys/gals before the year were all over hating on having bonzi here in sac, and now your all over his jock! last year it was all about how great peja was an now because of his recent struggles it is all over!

The list just keeps going on and on! Most of you guys/gals will never be happy if the kings win the bench sucked, if they lose, its trade everyone.

fick·le adj.
Characterized by erratic changeableness or instability, especially with regard to affections or attachments; capricious.

fickleness
n : unfaithfulness by virtue of being unreliable or treacherous

brad miller had it to a T!
You practice faithfulness to your wife and to the franchise, not to the players. If the players no longer serve the purposes of or are helpful to the franchise, being faithful to them means being fickle to the franchise. The doom of the player fan.

And of course the Bonzi example is ridiculous because nobody knew what he could do, or how he would conduct himself. I supported his acquisition from the start, but like the Artest move, I was fully prepared for it to blow up in our faces.
 
T

thesanityannex

Guest
kennadog said:
The negative in his personal life doesn't stay in his personal life. It causes problems all around him. I knew a brilliantly talented lawyer. He was an alcoholic in his personal life. Guess what? His personal life completely overshadowed his brilliance and talent, not to mention really screwed over a lot of people who depended on him. Unfortunately, you can't separate talent and personal life like they are totally unrelated. And RA's personal problems have most definitely caused problems in the "workplace." And maybe Foretaz is right and the Pacers have plenty of other problems, but that doesn't mean that Artest isn't one of the problems.
Actually, pro sports is one of the careers that allows you to separtate your talent and personal life, to a certain degree. Think of how many athletes with drug/alcohol/violence problems have had successful sports careers. If you have enough talent in a pro sport, people seem to turn a blind eye.
 
A

AriesMar27

Guest
thesanityannex said:
Actually, pro sports is one of the careers that allows you to separtate your talent and personal life, to a certain degree. Think of how many athletes with drug/alcohol/violence problems have had successful sports careers. If you have enough talent in a pro sport, people seem to turn a blind eye.
look at shaq.... or r. kelly(not sports but it still applies)
 
Diabeticwonder said:
O'Neal hopes Pacers deal for Harrington or Wells

By Ian Thomsen


While the rest of the league is guessing what the Indiana Pacers will net in their ongoing attempts to trade Ron Artest, team captain and All-Star Jermaine O'Neal has made two suggestions -- one surprising, the other not -- to franchise president Donnie Walsh and GM Larry Bird.
"I think the two guys who can really come in and help us right away are Bonzi Wells and Al Harrington," says O'Neal.

Harrington is an obvious choice. He spent his initial six years with Indiana before requesting a trade that sent him to Atlanta in July 2004 for Stephen Jackson. O'Neal thinks he would be ready to come back. "I've talked to Al," says O'Neal. "He's probably the closest friend in the league that I have. He's almost like a brother to me. We talk all the time.
"As a player you don't want to talk too much about it. We understand that he's a very loyal guy, that he's a Hawk right now and his state of mind is to improve the Hawks. But he does understand that if a trade does come up and he does have to come back, that it would be a good situation for him. It's more a fairy tale until it actually happens."

But O'Neal maintains that factors more than friendship are behind his suggestion. "He's familiar with the program, he knows what we like to do," says O'Neal. "I told Larry and Donnie I really would like to get Al because he is a 6-foot-9 'four' (power forward), who's very strong, very quick, plays multiple positions. He's almost a version of Ron: not as good individually defensively, but offensively, he can put up bigger numbers immediately. He's shown that. It would be a very adjustable situation, and a situation he could pick up quickly on."

O'Neal believes that Wells could also adjust quickly. "He can play the three, has a big body, fits into what we're doing, thinks defense, can score on anybody offensively," says O'Neal. "It's really those two guys."
What makes Wells especially interesting is that most insiders have predicted that Indiana would prefer Wells' Sacramento teammate, Peja Stojakovic.

"If Peja was brought to this team, we'd do what we can do to help him get into our style of play," says O'Neal. "Western Conference basketball is much different than Eastern Conference basketball. It's more of a slowdown pace. We don't run around, we don't do the fancy passes, we don't do any of that stuff. We don't have the space, especially with me being on the team. It gets real crowded, and guys help a lot against our team.

"He's a big time shooter, but I think there would have to be an adjustment period for him defensively with our style of play."
No matter what direction the Pacers move toward, O'Neal is clearly ready to move on.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/ian_thomsen/12/14/artest.oneal/index.html
He can stick that suggestion where the sun don't shine ;)
 
P

playmaker0017

Guest
All I have to say is:

"Thank God none of you are in the GM role."

You don't pass on trading a mid-level SG who has been partially psychotic on every team he's played for(with the exception being his current team) for a top 20 player.

Bonzi has had a decent enough 10 games. There is no indication he can keep this up.

You all have built a Bonzi-worship mound so high that you aren't able to see beyond it.
 
playmaker0017 said:
All I have to say is:

"Thank God none of you are in the GM role."

You don't pass on trading a mid-level SG who has been partially psychotic on every team he's played for(with the exception being his current team) for a top 20 player.

Bonzi has had a decent enough 10 games. There is no indication he can keep this up.

You all have built a Bonzi-worship mound so high that you aren't able to see beyond it.
I have to disagree. To my mind Bonzi has brought more than just 'game' he has shown such a tremendous will to play well that he has inspired not only Kings fans but also I think his team at a time they desperately needed it. Who know if he can keep it up? I don't think any of us do - but we can certainly appreciate what a fine job he is doing now!
 
playmaker0017 said:
All I have to say is:

"Thank God none of you are in the GM role."

You don't pass on trading a mid-level SG who has been partially psychotic on every team he's played for(with the exception being his current team) for a top 20 player.

Bonzi has had a decent enough 10 games. There is no indication he can keep this up.

You all have built a Bonzi-worship mound so high that you aren't able to see beyond it.
And you would trade him for an even bigger knucklehead that has been suspended for alsmost the entire season and can take the whole franchise down with him if he has another explosion.

I say thank god you are not the GM otherwise this team would be even worse than it is now.
 
we have to trade either peja or bonzi, cos i dont think its good to have 2 free agents come the end of the season. as a player Ron will be good for SAC because of his ability to score and defend premier the SGs and SFs of the league. but as a person i just dunno - but it would certainly bring some grit and urgency to the play we play.

ultimately i reckon this season will mirror last season in terms of rebuilding etc, so im expecting quite a few trades to go down because GP didnt trade C webb to get the same amount of talent in return, he did it to get more movable contracts. and i have faith in him, ill give him time to do his thing
 
Bricklayer said:
You practice faithfulness to your wife and to the franchise, not to the players. If the players no longer serve the purposes of or are helpful to the franchise, being faithful to them means being fickle to the franchise. The doom of the player fan.

And of course the Bonzi example is ridiculous because nobody knew what he could do, or how he would conduct himself. I supported his acquisition from the start, but like the Artest move, I was fully prepared for it to blow up in our faces.
The Bonzi example is perfect, if you practice faithfulness to your team you have to go with who the players are they get, like it or not!

Most Kings Fans I know who have been fans since the old suckramento days, understand there are highs and lows. Now you have fans (especially all over this board!) who change there position at the drop of a hat! THIS IS FICKLE!

And the case with Bonzi is that 75% of the posters on this board HATED this trade and now most of those same people are now bonzi fans:confused:

I understand that Bonzi has earned a lot of respect, but the people who are now saying he is untradeable are the same who did not want him!
 
A

AriesMar27

Guest
i liked the trade but i still wanted artest.... well i wanted jaric, who ended up in minny then i wanted artest.... bonzi is cool though.... but if he ends up with a team and is traded for table scraps i will be pissed....
 
Diehard Jim said:
The Bonzi example is perfect, if you practice faithfulness to your team you have to go with who the players are they get, like it or not!

Most Kings Fans I know who have been fans since the old suckramento days, understand there are highs and lows. Now you have fans (especially all over this board!) who change there position at the drop of a hat! THIS IS FICKLE!

And the case with Bonzi is that 75% of the posters on this board HATED this trade and now most of those same people are now bonzi fans:confused:

I understand that Bonzi has earned a lot of respect, but the people who are now saying he is untradeable are the same who did not want him!
false statement

there were very few people who "hated" this trade. hell, there were few people who disliked this trade. it was a serious upgrade. we lost cat to free agency, so there was a big hole at the starting SG. kevin martin isn't ready to fill that hole. bobby jackson is a supersub PG, but unfortunately also oft injured. serious upgrade in trading b-jax for bonzi wells. most people recognized this fact, so its ludicrous to say that 75% of fans on this board "hated" the trade.
 
Diehard Jim said:
And the case with Bonzi is that 75% of the posters on this board HATED this trade and now most of those same people are now bonzi fans:confused:

I understand that Bonzi has earned a lot of respect, but the people who are now saying he is untradeable are the same who did not want him!
What's wrong with this? People aren't allowed to ever change their opinions?

Bonzi had a horrific reputation prior to coming to Sacramento. Isn't it understandable why some were against the move? He's been a good citezin and he's played like a warrior. He's changed people's perception of him. I'm not sure what you're point is.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
Diehard Jim said:
The Bonzi example is perfect, if you practice faithfulness to your team you have to go with who the players are they get, like it or not!

Most Kings Fans I know who have been fans since the old suckramento days, understand there are highs and lows. Now you have fans (especially all over this board!) who change there position at the drop of a hat! THIS IS FICKLE!

And the case with Bonzi is that 75% of the posters on this board HATED this trade and now most of those same people are now bonzi fans:confused:

I understand that Bonzi has earned a lot of respect, but the people who are now saying he is untradeable are the same who did not want him!
Totally and completely unsupported by the facts AND the older threads:

http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6667

It shows right there that in a poll that asked "Bobby or Bonzi?" the results were pretty clear: 17% didn't want Bobby to leave, 54% were IN FAVOR of bringing Bonzi onboard, and the remaining 29% had a wait and see attitude...
 
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playmaker0017

Guest
Čarolija said:
And you would trade him for an even bigger knucklehead that has been suspended for alsmost the entire season and can take the whole franchise down with him if he has another explosion.

I say thank god you are not the GM otherwise this team would be even worse than it is now.
No, I don't care that Artest is a goofball at times.

If he proves to be a lockerroom cancer - trade him in the offseason. He's STILL more valuable an asset than Bonzi Wells. Period. End of Story.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
playmaker0017 said:
No, I don't care that Artest is a goofball at times.

If he proves to be a lockerroom cancer - trade him in the offseason. He's STILL more valuable an asset than Bonzi Wells. Period. End of Story.
No, it's not the end of the story.

If you think trading Bonzi Wells at this point in time for Ron Artest is a good idea, you just don't grasp the situation.

Bonzi has brought this team back from the abyss and helped the fanbase regain something they had come very close to losing. THAT's important and it's much more valuable RIGHT NOW than anything headcase MIGHT bring to the franchise.

Peja for Artest has a lot more logic to it, even though I do not see it happening.

Bonzi for Artest is just dumb.
 

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
VF21 said:
No, it's not the end of the story.

If you think trading Bonzi Wells at this point in time for Ron Artest is a good idea, you just don't grasp the situation.

Bonzi has brought this team back from the abyss and helped the fanbase regain something they had come very close to losing. THAT's important and it's much more valuable RIGHT NOW than anything headcase MIGHT bring to the franchise.

Peja for Artest has a lot more logic to it, even though I do not see it happening.

Bonzi for Artest is just dumb.
Hit the nail on the head with that one, VF21.
 
P

playmaker0017

Guest
VF21 said:
If you think trading Bonzi Wells at this point in time for Ron Artest is a good idea, you just don't grasp the situation.
No, I think you put FAR too much stock in your own opinion on the matter and what Bonzi is worth.

Bonzi has brought this team back from the abyss and helped the fanbase regain something they had come very close to losing. THAT's important and it's much more valuable RIGHT NOW than anything headcase MIGHT bring to the franchise.
Bonzi did no such thing -- and if playing good basketball over a 10 game spurt is enough to pull anything back from "the abyss" then Miller is spot on in his estimation about the fickleness of the Kings fanbase.

But, let's pretend that he did do this - do you think Artest would do the same thing? Give good effort - night in and night out?

Are you telling me Bonzi is FAR more important to the fanbase than WINS?! You could have a team of idiots from Mars playing ball and people will cheer ... if we win. Artest makes this team better. Better translates to more wins.

You are the one that always talks about the team being more important than individual players ... it seems it only applies to others.

Bonzi for Artest is just dumb.
In your humble opinion.

Just as it is my humble opinion that if you can get a top 20 player for a mid-to-low tier misfit who has always found a way to alienate himself from the fanbase .... you do it. Regardless of the fact that Artest is a nutcase. Nutcase or not, he's a more valuable asset to the team if he plays and if he doesn't ... he's more valuable as a trade bait.
 
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VF21 said:
Peja for Artest has a lot more logic to it, even though I do not see it happening.

Has more logic for the Kings not the Pacers. Pacers really have no use for someone like Peja. On the other hand JO straight out said he would want Bonzi. Like Playmaker said if you get the chance you make the trade.
Artest >>>> Bonzi every day of the week. Then you trade Peja for someone else like Deng. Just my opinion.
 
New headline I think the BEE should report, Think I came across it on HoopsHypertension or Insidehoops

BIGWAXER SAYS HE WANTS J'ONEAL IN A KINGS UNIFORM! TRADE ALL THE BUMS FOR O'NEAL :D