[ORL/DET]The journey continues

[BMiller52]

If Billups hammy is anything lingering, that could change everything.

That looked nasty, no man is THAT flexible

 

[Bricklayer]

That looked nasty, no man is THAT flexible

Jean Claude Van Damme for PG?

 

[kupman]

If Billups hammy is anything lingering, that could change everything.

..and me thinks it will linger. I don't think that I have ever seen a hammy heal quickly.

 

[Superman]

The Pistons aren't arrogant?! How many times have they made garuntees about games (and lost them nonetheless)? How many times have they underestimated their opponents and lost games as a result?

Actually, I think they've won all those games they made guarantees in.

Anyways, I like the Pistons, and if you like the Pistons, then you like the announcer's shenanigans. If I was a Laker fan, I would have loved it when they played the Superman theme song after every Shaq dunk.

I'm not a Laker fan, though, so I hated it. I think that's the way it goes with teams that you don't like. You don't like anything that celebrates that team's success.

I don't really know why people don't like the Pistons, though. They're versatile and well-rounded, people may think they're arrogant, but I've always had a different definition of the word arrogant than most people, so we can agree to disagree there.

They play down to their opposition a lot, but I don't think that makes them arrogant. In fact, I think that has more to do with their coach than anything else. Flip Saunders is terrible at motivating a team to play their best. Even though Larry Brown got on everybody's nerves, the Pistons were always at the top of their game when he was there. In his two seasons, they made the Finals twice, one as the major underdog and then lost to the Spurs in seven games.

Enter Flip Saunders. The "Light Switch" Pistons suddenly appear, and they haven't made the Finals since, despite being a top two seed in the East every year and making it to the conference finals. I think everyone who follows the Pistons equates their attitude for the past three seasons more with the coach than with the players.

 

[Superman]

That's hilarious. They didn't review the play because according to the league they're not allowed to. That's a rule that's obviously going to change, but it still doesn't make it okay that nobody could figure this out at any point after the third period ended and before the last minute of the game and take three points off the board. That would have completely changed the outcome of the game.

It's just like the pass they granted Boston and Atlanta last series instead of the mandatory suspensions they gave the Suns and Spurs last year. Sure it's great that they get the calls right a year later, but why did nobody figure this out when it actually could have helped to determine the game? This is the difference between a 1-1 tie and a 2-0 Detroit lead. In the Conference Semi-Finals. That's huge. It's the playoffs, how can the refs be so handcuffed that they have to make a call on the court that they don't agree with? Are they going to replay the whole fourth quarter now? No, they're going to do nothing. Sorry Orlando, you got screwed, but there's nothing we can do about it. That's total BS. There was a lot they could have done about it but nobody wanted to take responsibility for it so they did nothing. Just inexcusable. This is a huge problem in the NBA and it's not isolated to just this incident. This is just worse because it's a playoff game. Why are we better equipped to make the right calls watching the game on TV than the refs on the floor? Wake up NBA, it's 2008. Get instant replay!

We're talking about three points.

As a Kings fans, I know what it's like for your team to get screwed out of the three points and wind up losing the game. I also know the difference between blaming that loss on the bad call and taking responsibility for playing poor basketball down the stretch.

It sucks that the Magic got the short end in that one, but it was hardly decisive to the outcome of the game. It's not like it was at the end of the fourth quarter and that shot sent the game into overtime. There was an equipment malfunction that messed everything up, and the refs didn't have the leeway to get the call scientifically right, so they played their gut. What were they supposed to do? The rules will probably be changed so that this doesn't happen anymore.

And when I heard Chauncey talking about the play, he mentioned something that a lot of people probably haven't thought about. When Stuckey looked at the clock, he saw that there was still more time left and passed the ball. The malfunction affected the Pistons as much as it affected anyone else.

I guess the better thing to do would have been to replay the final 5.1 seconds once everyone realized that the clock had malfunctioned. But I disagree that a play that happened at the end of the third quarter cost the Magic the game. I'd argue that their shooting 3-18 and turning the ball over half a doze times in the fourth was more decisive than a bad call on the three pointer the end the third.

 

[Bricklayer]

Enter Flip Saunders. The "Light Switch" Pistons suddenly appear, and they haven't made the Finals since, despite being a top two seed in the East every year and making it to the conference finals. I think everyone who follows the Pistons equates their attitude for the past three seasons more with the coach than with the players.

While its always fun to scapegoat the coach, he isn't the one issuing asinine statements to the press about turning it on and we're not worried and it does not matter if we lose this game and whatnot. And its really Chauncey and Sheed (shocker) who are the ringleaders in half-assedness, not the coach who is clearly driven to distraction by it. He might not be able to motivate them, but when you reach a contending level if you need the coach to motivate you then you are kind of pathetic anyway.

The Pistons long ago left behind the blue collar underdog attitude that made them darlings for a spell, and shrugged on an outsized sense of entitlement that is almost comical given the fact they walk off the court every season as losers. They were roughly one half more of half assed we can't be bothered to care basketball from going down 3-1 to the Sixers and being in real danger of being bounced in the first round. Might actually have been the best thing that could happen to them. They're probably too old to make it happen anyway, but it would have been about the only thing that could have jarred them out of their self involvement.

 

[venom_7]

It sucks that the Magic got the short end in that one, but it was hardly decisive to the outcome of the game.

Well i think it changed the overall tone of the game, so i think it was decisive in that matter. But you are right, the Magic had a lead with a little over a minute to go.

 

[Superman]

While its always fun to scapegoat the coach, he isn't the one issuing asinine statements to the press about turning it on and we're not worried and it does not matter if we lose this game and whatnot. And its really Chauncey and Sheed (shocker) who are the ringleaders in half-assedness, not the coach who is clearly driven to distraction by it. He might not be able to motivate them, but when you reach a contending level if you need the coach to motivate you then you are kind of pathetic anyway.

I'm not one known for scapegoating any coaches, and you're right that they shouldn't need the coach to get them up for games, especially playoff games, but it's clear to me that the Pistons lost their edge when Flip got hired. I'm sure their previous successes went to their heads a bit, but Flip can't handle that team.

And regarding comments about turning it on and not being in a must win situation, while cocky and maybe arrogant, they generally deliver. Rasheed's guarantee's normally prove true.

Anyways, I like the Pistons and their play and their announcer doesn't bother me all that much. I'm not hurt when they lose, but I like to see them win, and I hope they give it to the Celtics.

 

[hrdboild]

Certainly everything could have turned out differently. That's why you get the same two teams together for 7 games and one team doesn't win them all. Every time you go back and replay something, it's going to turn out differently. But if the teams are within 3 points in the last minute of the game, then that 3 pointer did affect the outcome. That's the difference between Orlando getting the ball back with a small lead and having a chance to ice the game and Orlando having to foul Detroit just to get another possession. The point is, if the refs had waived off the shot then Orlando could have gone 3-18 and turned the ball over and still won. Sure they can't just blame the refs because they didn't outplay Detroit in the 4th quarter like they were supposed to, but ultimately all that matters is the final score. Orlando should have had the lead and the ball with 45 seconds left and they didn't. That was the ballgame.

Regarding Stuckey passing because there was time left-- Billups shooting an uncontested three is a lot different than Stuckey shooting as the clock expires with a man all over him. It's highly unlikely Stuckey makes that shot anyway. Winding the clock back and having Detroit do the play over would have been a better solution then what they did. But once the quarter ended, they still could have taken three points off the scoreboard considering the shot was taken after time expired and so technically it didn't count. In baseball if you miss touching the plate, the other team can throw the ball over there any time until you go back and touch it and you're out. It doesn't matter now because Orlando's already been screwed out of a chance to win, but at the very least the final score should be 97 to 93 because Detroit did not score 100 points in that game.

 

[Superman]

hrdboild:

You're trying to rewrite history. If they ruled at the end of the quarter that the three pointer didn't count, then everything is different because the score is different. You can't ignore that and just say that the Magic would have had the lead later in the game if the refs just waived the shot off, because you don't know what affect that would have had on the rest of the game.

That's like Kings fans saying that we should have won Game 4 of the 2002 WCF, because Samaki Walker's end of half three pointer shouldn't have counted and we only lost by one. That's revisionist history.

The best way for the refs to settle that type of situation is just to replay the final 5.1 seconds. I understand what you're saying about Stuckey's shot compared to Chauncey's shot, and I agree with you. But when he looked at the clock, he thought he still had time, so the Pistons offense was affected by the clock malfunction just like the Magic defense was. So you can waive the three points off, but now you're penalizing the Pistons for the malfunction. I think the best way would have been for them to replay the 5.1 seconds.

But they didn't, and I can't see how a three point differential at the end of the third quarter is so damning that it cost them the game. They still had the entire fourth quarter left to play, and they were only down by two points. Had they played just a little bit better in the fourth, it would be a non-issue. It does suck that they got the short end, and I feel bad for them, but I don't think it cost them the game.

 

[Bricklayer]

Gotta love Brother Hedo steeping up to become a star, and a clutch star at that, all these years later. But asking him to just isolate and square up Tayshaun Prince to win the game for you ala Kobe is a bit much.

Underscores the difference in where the Magic and Hornets are too. Its the difference betwwen Howard -- an amazing young specimen who will domiinate the league in 5 years but is still in many ways a kid, and acts like it -- and Paul, who plays and acts like a 10 year battle hardened take no prisoners playoff veteran. Pistons were getting away with physical murder int heir against Dwight, including somehting that might well be ruled a technical when they look at it in league offices (the McDyess takedown), and it threw Dwight way off his game. He didn't lead the team, it was left to a good but not great vet in Hedo to do it. Watch the contrast for the Hornets where their young star is already there as their leader -- you try to rough up CP3 (as Bowen has) he just comes back at you harder. Also why the Hornets may very well advance and why the Magic will go home until Dwight develops that nasty and leadership.

And as an aside -- the announcers were scary good/accurate this time out. You almost never say that, but they had almost everything right tonight. Did miss a bit at the end though when they called for the Pistons to run Hamilton into the post again, not realizing that that was just a matchup strategy to take advanatgae of the undersized Dooling, but that there was no way he was going to back down Mo Evans the same way.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

In the midst of the Great Trio of Arrogance, you have Tayshaun Prince, who may well wind up being the best player on that team. Awesome to see him hit that gamewinner with a Magic player right in his grill.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Watching the replay of this game on ESPN360.com, it's very disheartening. It reminded me of Game 4 in 2001, when it seemed like Hedo was the only guy who showed up to try and prevent the sweep.

 

[Bricklayer]

Watching the replay of this game on ESPN360.com, it's very disheartening. It reminded me of Game 4 in 2001, when it seemed like Hedo was the only guy who showed up to try and prevent the sweep.

Actually that was exactly what I was thinking too -- right now we have two semi-final series that both remind me of former Kings series. The Magic/Pistons of us vs. Lakers in 2001, when we were young, talented, but just not ready against the veteran squad and got swept. And then Hornets/Spurs which reminds me of us vs. Lakers in 2002 when we were the young bucks, quite possibly better than the old champs, and oh so close to knocking them off the throne. Except of course the Hornets might do it because their Bibby counterpart is a legit superstar. About the difference in development level of the Magic vs. the Hornets too -- one team has that swagger and the other still has to prove to itself it belongs. (Does not hurt the comparisons that the young challenging teams have all sorts of Kings connections -- Hedo/Mo in Orlando, Bonzi/Peja/Byron Scott in New Orleans.)

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

And then Hornets/Spurs which reminds me of us vs. Lakers in 2002 when we were the young bucks, quite possibly better than the old champs, and oh so close to knocking them off the throne. Except of course the Hornets might do it because their Bibby counterpart is a legit superstar.

Don't forget that their Peja counterpart is healthy.

 

[PurpleHaze]

2008 NBA Playoffs All-Star team of former Kings:

First Team

Hedo Turkoglu
Peja Stojakovic
Bonzi Wells
Bobby Jackson
Maurice Evans

Second Team

Ronnie Price
Mike Bibby
Eddie House
Darius Songaila
Damon Jones

Coach

Rick Adelman

 

[bozzwell]

Gotta love Brother Hedo steeping up to become a star, and a clutch star at that, all these years later. But asking him to just isolate and square up Tayshaun Prince to win the game for you ala Kobe is a bit much.

I'm very happy for brother Hedo too. Always liked him, always will. When Hedo was drafted, I read an article by one of top European coaches saying that Hedo will become best overseas player in the NBA because he's the best suited for the league. We know now that that didn't happen, especially since Hedo had such a rough time adjusting to the life in US (remember stories of $2000+ cell phone bills?), but he certainly looks great now.

 

[xrzn]

2008 NBA Playoffs All-Star team of former Kings:

First Team

Hedo Turkoglu
Peja Stojakovic
Bonzi Wells
Bobby Jackson
Maurice Evans

Second Team

Ronnie Price
Mike Bibby
Eddie House
Darius Songaila
Damon Jones

Coach

Rick Adelman

Notice how the Kings haven't produced a legit center. You did forget Pollard, but then again, I said legit. he was a decent center of the bench.

Watching game 5, it seems like the refs are completely siding with the Pistons. The Magic are barely getting any calls. Nevertheless, turnovers are killing the Magic.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Magic didn't deserve to win, Teko notwithstanding.

 

[4cwebb]

... Howard -- an amazing young specimen who will domiinate the league in 5 years but is still in many ways a kid, and acts like it

Howard's bricks for hands hurt the Magic tonight. He fumbled away a number of passes and rebounds, and committed turnovers when he had the ball too boot. Must have infected the entire Magic team in the 4th quarter.

So the Pistons make their 6th straight Eastern Conference finals appearance. Wonder if they'd rather face the Celtics or Cavs...

 

[VF21]

And another one bites the dust...