OFFICIAL trade thread. Post trade proposals HERE! (merged)

B.R.A.G. Dad · Jun 3, 2005

What if the Kings do what your proposing for minnesota ?

something like

1.miller and corliss to knicks for Hardaway(expiring contract),Ariza, and the #8
2.bibbyand Skinner to orlando for nelson and expiring contracts (christie and kato)
or bibby and Skinner to Portland for Van exel and maybe outlaw or telfair

after next season we should be well under the cap to sign top notch player and Peja , and have some good young talent

ariza,,knicks #8,(Outlaw ,Telfair,or Nelson),and our own lottery pick

What do you think?

Bibby_Is_Clutch · Jun 3, 2005

I think Bibby and Skinner are worth more than Nelson or Van Exel. Nelson isnt a proven NBA star or even producer and neither is Telfair. We dont want/need christie back because of his injury and age and kato is an old man too isnt he? Also I thought Van Exel was like 38?

Young may be good or it may be bad but I dont think they have proven talent at the NBA level yet. The #8 pick from NY could help us but it may not be worth giving up Miller and Williamson for.

Packt · Jun 3, 2005

hrdboild said:

You'd probably have to give up Peja because 1: The Clippers wouldn't be interested otherwise, and 2: it's probably not a good idea to bring in another big scorer to fill the two spot with both Bibby and Peja on the roster.

On the other hand, Jackson could be an attractive backup for Livingston. If we could get Maggette with just Jackson, Thomas and whoever else from our bench, that'd be a steal. That'd provide us with another star trading piece. Maggette would have a lot of trade value, and him packaged with one of our core would be mighty tempting.

B.R.A.G. Dad said:

I don't like the idea of building around Peja. He's a player you add to a team, not someone you build around. That's not to mention he'd be looking for a huge contract and I'm not sure it'd be the best idea to give him one.

Bricklayer · Jun 3, 2005

B.R.A.G. Dad said:

Why oh why would we do that?

The Wolves at least have had a serious setback, fired their coach, have a team full of malcontents, and need to rebuild whether they move KG or not. But for a 50 win team to liquefy its talentbase for caproom and a chance to resign a single non-franchise player would be bizarre. Particularly when you are located in Sacramento, who's single big free agent acquisition in history was Vlade Divac -- a good player, but nowhere near what we'd have to sign in order to make a liquification strategy worthwhile. Our talent certainly appears ill suited to winning a championship, but we've still got enough good players that we're only a couple of good moves from making it back into contention. To actually scrap the roster for caproom you have to be pretty damn unhappy with what you have, because its a high risk maneuver that can easily wipe you out and leave you wallowing in the lottery for years and years.

thesanityannex · Jun 3, 2005

B.R.A.G. Dad said:

What if the Kings do what your proposing for minnesota ?

something like

1.miller and corliss to knicks for Hardaway(expiring contract),Ariza, and the #8
2.bibbyand Skinner to orlando for nelson and expiring contracts (christie and kato)
or bibby and Skinner to Portland for Van exel and maybe outlaw or telfair

after next season we should be well under the cap to sign top notch player and Peja , and have some good young talent

ariza,,knicks #8,(Outlaw ,Telfair,or Nelson),and our own lottery pick

What do you think?

WELCOME TO THE LOTTERY

ForlornKing · Jun 3, 2005

Sacramento Trade Breakdown Outgoing

First Round #23 Pick

Kenny Thomas
6-7 PF from New Mexico
11.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.6 apg in 28.6 minutes

Peja Stojakovic
6-10 SF from Yugoslavia 20.1 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 2.1 apg in 38.4 minutes

Incoming

Mamadou N'Diaye
7-0 C from Auburn
1.8 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.1 apg in 6.5 minutes

Elton Brand
6-8 PF from Duke
20.0 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 2.6 apg in 37.0 minutes

Change in team outlook: -9.6 ppg, +0.3 rpg, and -1.0 apg.

thesanityannex · Jun 3, 2005

ForlornKing said:

Sacramento Trade Breakdown Outgoing

First Round #23 Pick

Kenny Thomas
6-7 PF from New Mexico
11.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.6 apg in 28.6 minutes

Peja Stojakovic
6-10 SF from Yugoslavia 20.1 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 2.1 apg in 38.4 minutes

Incoming

Mamadou N'Diaye
7-0 C from Auburn
1.8 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.1 apg in 6.5 minutes

Elton Brand
6-8 PF from Duke
20.0 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 2.6 apg in 37.0 minutes

Change in team outlook: -9.6 ppg, +0.3 rpg, and -1.0 apg.

I would really love to get rid of Peja, Thomas and #23 for +.3 rpg. What a steal.

Bibby_Is_Clutch · Jun 3, 2005

ForlornKing said:

Sacramento Trade Breakdown Outgoing

First Round #23 Pick

Kenny Thomas
6-7 PF from New Mexico
11.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.6 apg in 28.6 minutes

Peja Stojakovic
6-10 SF from Yugoslavia 20.1 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 2.1 apg in 38.4 minutes

Incoming

Mamadou N'Diaye
7-0 C from Auburn
1.8 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.1 apg in 6.5 minutes

Elton Brand
6-8 PF from Duke
20.0 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 2.6 apg in 37.0 minutes

Change in team outlook: -9.6 ppg, +0.3 rpg, and -1.0 apg.

Is this a joke?

thesanityannex · Jun 3, 2005

a cruel joke. yes.

Bibby_Is_Clutch · Jun 3, 2005

I dont see how any of what we get in return is worth Peja and our #23 alone but when you toss in Kenny its just funny.

whozit · Jun 3, 2005

The following idea will make the summer so .... so .... long ....probably nauseating also.

This has the Kings only making one trade that occurs before the end of the draft. The Kings trade Bobby Jackson, Brian Skinner and Corliss Williamson to the Grizzlies for Jason Williams, Bonzi Wells and their 1st round pick (no. 19). The Kings do it to get rid of some parts that don't fit too good and they want that pick. They also want the excitement Jason used to bring (something to stir the fans). The Grizzlies do it to get rid of two problem children. Bobby Jackson as a backup has to be better than headcase Cassell. (per rumor that Mempis and Minn. would trade Williams + pick for Cassell and filler) Skinner and Williamson give valuable bench parts.

The Kings lose Mobley in FA by letting him walk. The Kings resign Songalia as insurance since he is a good fit. With their two picks the Kings pick up Randolf Morris C/PF and a defensive minded SF/SG (I put Gelabele simply because thats who I picked in the prediction thread). They also resign Maurice Evans rather than use the mid-level on another player. Barnes is brought back as a crowd pleaser.

The new line-up looks like:

PG - Mike Bibby
PG - Jason Williams ... the one who puts more effort in defense (since it seems neither do) plays more

SG - Bonzi Wells
SG - Maurice Evans
SG - Kevin Martin

SF - Peja
SF/SG - Mickael Gelabele or defensive minded player
SF - Matt Barnes (IR)

PF/SF - Kenny Thomas
PF - Darius Songalia
PF/C - Randolf Morris

C - Brad Miller
C - Greg Ostertag

One plus is if the team resigns Evans and Songalia near mid-level (~4 mil.) the teams payroll will be around 62mil., not much more than it is now. (i.e. doesn't break the bank) Another plus is an influx of youth across the board.

The negatives are playing time with the point guards and power forwards. That also is not even addressing the questions of how good (i.e. bad) defensively this team could be.

Please refer back to my vomit comment. It suddenly doesn't look as good.

Bibby_Is_Clutch · Jun 3, 2005

I just dont think that helps us all that much. Bonzi and Jason plus who knows what we get from pick 19. I would love to have Jason back and wouldnt mind Bonzi but is that going to make us a contender again? No.

We have to keep in mind that the goal is to become a contender again.

AriesMar27 · Jun 3, 2005

if adelman ran the team right and no one played more than 30 min a game like hubie did in memphis... that could work.... that would be the sickest small ball back court, mike and jason....

SacTownKid · Jun 3, 2005

Bibby_Is_Clutch said:

Bibby and J-will on the floor at the same time brings tears to my eyes. Simply beautiful!

Bibby_Is_Clutch · Jun 3, 2005

AriesMar27 said:

It may be cool to watch and all but I dont think that it gets us past San Antonio, Pheonix, Dallas, etc.

AriesMar27 · Jun 3, 2005

Bibby_Is_Clutch said:

it gets us past phoenix and dallas no doubt..... but we would have to trade thomas and maybe bonzi for a real pf, boozer is always my first choice if healthy to get past san antonio.... balls would be flying all over the place.... so beautiful....

Bibby_Is_Clutch · Jun 3, 2005

AriesMar27 said:

With Boozer we probably would. JWill, Mike, Peja, Brad, Boozer, Evans, Songaila, Skinner.

I like it. Especially if Peja can play like he did before the all star break in 2003.

whozit · Jun 4, 2005

Bibby_Is_Clutch said:

Utah probably would not do that deal, they don't need Thomas and Bonzi is a unrestricted free agent after next year (assuming under my scenerio that Memphis picks up his option in order to trade on draft night) Unless Utah is just wanting to get out from under Boozer's contract, they lose in that deal.

As far as Skinner goes, he was lost in the trade to Memphis. When originally making this idea on another board, I had Ostertag instead of Skinner. I changed it here because I thought the team was lacking size and figured Memphis would rather have Skinner than Tag. Skinner can backup both the C and PF slots.

The team I proposed is not a title contender. It can be hopefully a competitive one. The idea is that to go forward, you have to stop going back. It is in the idea to get a balanced team in terms of veterans and young players. Morris would be the PF for the future, 6-10 and likes it around the basket. This could be a very exciting, entertaining team built to go forward in the future.

Still not sure if it can defend a lick.

Bricklayer · Jun 4, 2005

Boozer bangs, but is again undersized for a PF and plays like it on defense. Aside from clotheslining our highflyer he's a swinging door right to the rim. Doesn't work for us (nor apparently for Sloan, hence the dissatisfaction) with Brad around. Tired story, but true. For Brad to work, the other guy just HAS to be tall and a shotblocker or your interior defense is screwed.

JWill is no longer JWill at this point. He's a good solid starting PG, but much of the flash has been bled out of him by various coaches preaching discipline. And that's probably a good thing if you're serious about winning. In any case given that we already have a Top 5 PG who can eat 35-40 mpg, he'd be a total waste. Unless you actually want to imagine the true horror of a Bibby/JWill backcourt out there together

, you can only play JWill by sitting Bibby, and that certainly doesn't help the team any.

Now Bonzi is actually an interesting player for us, skillwise at least. Post up power guard who can explode. For a wussy team with no post players, could be interesting (Cat tried to post too for some reason, but the difference is Bonzi is really good at it and built for it). Too bad that ability is attached to a a jerk package that can become a major distraction. Not sure we have the locker room leadership to absorb that sort of punk at this point.

Regardless, that overall team is just a shrug. Nothing really special about it, and the names fail to excite. Its certainly not getting us past ANY of the elite teams, and I don't know why we'd trade to go get mid-career guys unless those guys were going to get us back into contention. I've stated before I wouldn't mind finding some way to get an extra pick or two in this draft given its great depth, but that's thinking long term not short. And in the meantime just becoming the Memphis Kings (without the defense even) and piling up middling talent is going to get us just about as far as Memphis did with that approach. 7th/8th seed, out in Rnd 1. We need some special talents to unmire us.

whozit · Jun 4, 2005

I am thinking long term, hence

and in my initial post on this, I refered to nasuea and vomit. Since '01/'02 the team has been bleeding off talent. This is an attempt to put some new young blood in there, not recycled refuge. You exchange mid-career guys for mid-career guys for the draft pick, 'cause you ain't going to get some existing special talent and picks. Also, to get existing special talent you are probably going to have to exchange some of yours. That approach doesn't necessarily stop the bleeding.

Playing Bibby 35-40 min. all season gets you a worn out, banged up spent PG for the playoffs. A good solid starting PG can be an excellant 10-18 min. backup.

Not advocating Boozer and I have questions on the defensive ability of the new team lineup. Could be decent or just plain horrid.

One year headache. Let Adelman deal with it in his final year, resolving personality conflicts (or preventing them) is supposed to be his strong suite. He would also have the issue of playing time with his point guards to deal with.

I do think the team could be entertaining and competitive in the regular season, post season is a different story.

Elektrik · Jun 4, 2005

Okay. Lots of interesting trade scenarios on this thread. Try this one on for size. It is doable although unlikely but it would address rebounding and defense without losing much offense. It would hurt somewhat on our outside shooting but not too bad. Call it my wish list.

Sign and trade Cuttino Mobely to Washington for Larry Hughes

Trade Kenny Thomas and Bobby Jackson to Denver for Nene, Najera, and Earl Boykins

Trade Peja to Indiana for Ron Artest

Re-sign Darius Songaila and Mo Evans

This gives us the following lineup:

Center-Brad Miller, Greg Ostertag, Brian Skinner
Power Forward-Nene, Darius Songaila, and Najera
Small Forward-Ron Artest and Corliss Williamson
Shooting Guard- Larry Hughes, Mo Evans, Kevin Martin
Point guard-Mike Bibby, Earl Boykins

I understand the criticisms of why would Denver and Washington do that. Still, in a perfect world, assuming that KG is not going to happen, I think this is one of the better lineups we could have going into the next season and if I were Geoff Petrie this is what I would like to see on the team.

Bibby_Is_Clutch · Jun 4, 2005

Denver wouldnt do the trade, neither would Washington and Indiana wouldnt either.

Gilles · Jun 4, 2005

Just a wishful thinking. Redd is one of the best FA this offseason. I guess he will stay at Milwaukee. But there's a chance he may want to go to Cleveland. His agent gamble on this possibility. Maybe it's just piling up his stock, but if Bucks know he's on his way out, do you think we can swoop in with say Mobley(S&T) and maybe Bobby(yeah, they like TJ and Maurice but still). Would Milwaukee want this deal, would Redd consider moving here, would we want this deal(maybe then sending Peja to Indy for Ronny) and at what price(Redd's agent claims Michael wants and deserves max deal).

VF21 · Jun 4, 2005

Elektrik said:

LOTS of reasons those won't work.

1. You aren't going to get Cuttino Mobley to agree to a sign and trade to the Wizards IMHO. And I don't see Washington agreeing to get rid of Hughes for Cat anyway.

2. There is NO reason on earth Denver would agree to the proposal. None. It doesn't do anything for them.

3. The Peja to Indiana for Artest boat has most likely sailed. I don't see the Maloofs agreeing to get rid of one of their favorites for a loose cannon.

4. This is the only one I think is possible, although it depends on how much $$$ Petrie is going to be able to offer either or both Darius and Mo. If they get decent offers from other teams we'll simply have to wave good-bye. We don't have $$$ to spend other than the exceptions.

kingkung · Jun 4, 2005

If we're starting over again, we might as well start over again:
-Trade Mike Bibby for Jason Williams
-Trade Kenny Thomas and Brian Skinner and Eddie House for Chris Webber
-Trade Cuttino Mobley for Hedo Turkoglu
-Trade Brad Miller and Greg Ostertag for Vlade Divac and Scot Pollard
-Trade Darius Songaila for Jon Barry
-Trade Kevin Martin for Tariq Abdul-Wahad (yes, Tariq Abdul-Wahad)
-Sign Lawrence Funderburke
-Sign Vernon Maxwell

Starters:
PG Jason Williams
SG Tariq Abdul-Wahad
SF Corliss Williamson
PF Chris Webber
C Vlade Divac
Bench Bobby Jackson
Bench Peja Stojakovic
Bench Jon Barry
Bench Vernon Maxwell
Bench Hedo Turkoglu
Bench Scot Pollard
Bench Lawrence Funderburke

VF21 · Jun 4, 2005

Gilles said:

Keep in mind that in order to get Cuttino so we can do a sign and trade, we have to get him to arrange to be traded to Milwaukee - which is NOT going to happen IMHO. Cat has opted out of his contract with the Kings. In order to get him back - even for a sign and trade - would require us to make an offer he's willing to accept and, having been around, his agent would make absolutely sure there was some kind of trade restriction in any contract. He would be very foolish not to...especially after the other moves the Kings have made recently.

AleksandarN · Jun 4, 2005

I thinking the other day that this could be a good trade

Sac trades
Brad Miller and Bobby Jackson
gets a resigned Kwame Brown and Jamaal Magloire

Was trades
a resigned Larry Hughes and Kwame Brown
gets
Bobby Jackson and Brad Miller
NO trades

Jamaal Magloire
gets Sac sack number 23 pick
and Larry Hughes

Since I can not checjk real GM for resigned players you might have to use trade extemptions and cap filler to balance the trade

ForlornKing · Jun 4, 2005

kingkung said:

If we're starting over again, we might as well start over again:
-Trade Mike Bibby for Jason Williams
-Trade Kenny Thomas and Brian Skinner and Eddie House for Chris Webber
-Trade Cuttino Mobley for Hedo Turkoglu
-Trade Brad Miller and Greg Ostertag for Vlade Divac and Scot Pollard
-Trade Darius Songaila for Jon Barry
-Trade Kevin Martin for Tariq Abdul-Wahad (yes, Tariq Abdul-Wahad)
-Sign Lawrence Funderburke
-Sign Vernon Maxwell

Starters:
PG Jason Williams
SG Tariq Abdul-Wahad
SF Corliss Williamson
PF Chris Webber
C Vlade Divac
Bench Bobby Jackson
Bench Peja Stojakovic
Bench Jon Barry
Bench Vernon Maxwell
Bench Hedo Turkoglu
Bench Scot Pollard
Bench Lawrence Funderburke

Theres a real contender.

thesanityannex · Jun 4, 2005

kingkung said:

If we're starting over again, we might as well start over again:
-Trade Mike Bibby for Jason Williams
-Trade Kenny Thomas and Brian Skinner and Eddie House for Chris Webber
-Trade Cuttino Mobley for Hedo Turkoglu
-Trade Brad Miller and Greg Ostertag for Vlade Divac and Scot Pollard
-Trade Darius Songaila for Jon Barry
-Trade Kevin Martin for Tariq Abdul-Wahad (yes, Tariq Abdul-Wahad)
-Sign Lawrence Funderburke
-Sign Vernon Maxwell

Starters:
PG Jason Williams
SG Tariq Abdul-Wahad
SF Corliss Williamson
PF Chris Webber
C Vlade Divac
Bench Bobby Jackson
Bench Peja Stojakovic
Bench Jon Barry
Bench Vernon Maxwell
Bench Hedo Turkoglu
Bench Scot Pollard
Bench Lawrence Funderburke

I always thought corliss should start in front of peja, and j.will is much better than bibby. What a deal, Divac for Miller. Wow.

BigWaxer · Jun 4, 2005

thesanityannex said:

HUH?

Jwill is better then Bibby and Corliss should start above Peja? I strongly disagree with both of those statements.

So you think Vlade in his present state of OLD age can play better then Miller? I would say yes we over paid for Brad but no way as of today Vlade is better.

With that said Brad is better then Current day Vlade and JWILL is not even close to the PG Bibby is. Since the both play NO D at all then I think its fair to say the offensive numbers alone prove Bibby is better. Not to mention more in control.

OFFICIAL trade thread. Post trade proposals HERE! (merged)

Prospect

Starter

Starter

Don't Make Me Use The Bat

thesanityannex

Guest

Starter

thesanityannex

Guest

Starter

thesanityannex

Guest

Starter

Starter

Starter

AriesMar27

Guest

Hall of Famer

Starter

AriesMar27

Guest

Starter

Starter

Don't Make Me Use The Bat

Starter

Bench

Starter

Starter

Super Moderator Emeritus

Bench

Super Moderator Emeritus

Starter

Starter

thesanityannex

Guest

Starter