OFFICIAL trade thread. Post trade proposals HERE! (merged)

stevetaebo · May 9, 2005

Peja+Corliss(realGm ok'd) => Paul Pierce

you know I've been reading alot of the posts on Paul Pierce on the Boston Globe Forums. Lots of mixed reactions. alot of fans seem to want to get rid of Pierce along with Walker and Payton. Most people say that Pierce is a ball hog and were often frustated in the season with him especially with his stupidity in the playoffs.

personally I like pierce, i wouldn't mind see this guy on our team. I think he just simply needs a change of scenery to help his game grow. Reminds me of a CWEBB situation for the wizards. solid player playing for a crap team for most of his career. In the right situation, he could thrive.

hrdboild · May 9, 2005

Yeah, Denver probably would take Mobley if they can't get Redd or Allen. Seems likely. But they don't need to do a sign and trade because they're under the salary cap.

kennadog · May 10, 2005

Just thought I'd throw this bit in from Sam Smith, Chicago Tribune since Pierce has been mentioned. Happened to read it today. He sure doesn't seem to think much of PP or A Walker. And boy did he rag on J Van Gundy!

Not saying I agree or disagree with anything in his column, but it gives me pause about PP.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-0505090099may09.column?page=2&coll=cs-home-utility

SacTownKid · May 10, 2005

kennadog said:

Pierce getting the boot wouldn't surprise me in the least. Ainge originally booted Walker without a second thought.

bbb · May 10, 2005

Even so, Ainge is going to just "let go" of Paul Pierce. PP is by far the best player on his team and a legit top 20/30 player in the League. On the realgm forums, Celtics fans almost laughed when a similar trade to Peja/Corliss for Pierce was mentioned. As much as Celtic fans are down on Pierce, they are so as well for Peja. I agree that Pierce needs a change of scenery, but I don't know if we have the pieces for BOS. They don't need Miller (unless they include Perkins or Jefferson in a trade, highly unlikely, especially in Jefferson's case) or Bibby (unless Marcus Banks or Delonte West is included, a much more reasonable choice for them). Peja seems to be the only option, but I doubt we have the role players they would want for their team.

I would, however, LOVE to have Paul Pierce on this team.

stevetaebo · May 10, 2005

Man I swear, as I was looking through the Celtics boards, I found
http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=370880&sid=88820123c8366c50597023fb0eb467e0

oh boy, how laughable was that. kinduv reminds me of the goofy posts about how we can get KG without giving up Peja/bibby/Miller

excerpts:

banks,pierce,davis
4
martin,stojakovic,bibby

Davis/Blount/West/18 for Bibby and one of the many stiffs they got from PHI.

Davis/West/Allen for Bibby

Raef/Davis/Banks for Bibby and previously mentioned PHI steaming pile.

ParniValjak · May 10, 2005

bigbadred00 said:

Blocking shots or getting steals doesn't mean you are a good defender. IMHO, Stro is an average defender and while he might bring in some shot blocking ability into the team, we wouldn't be getting a hell of a lot better on the defensive end. He blocks a couple of shots in a game but apart from that he is not much of a defender.

ParniValjak · May 10, 2005

A question to anyone that knows this.

If Mobley opts out of his contract and becomes a free agent could we still sign him up for the money he would get elsewhere??????

I understand we can't go out and spend $9-10 million on Hughes or someone of that ilk but can we re-sign our own player for that sort of money????

I am not saying Cat is worth that much but I just want to ask how all this stuff works.

Bricklayer · May 10, 2005

Just for kicks, for all you PJ lovers out there -- this is what a PJ friendly Kings team could look like:

Transaction 1:
Mike Bibby
Brad Miller
for
Kevin Garnett

variations/throw ins to make salary work:
a) Fred Hoiberg to us (makes salary work, perfect player for PJ)
b) Olowokandi for Tag (makes salary work, maybe clears problem player for Wolves, Kandi might actually work like Cartwright/Longley for Phil)
c) Hudson for Bobby (makes salary work, clears problem player/salary fro Wolves, doubtful PJ guy)

Transaction 2:
Peja Stojakovic
Kenny Thomas
for
Paul Pierce

notes: not sure whether Thomas works for Boston given contract, but if Walker is gone, Thomas might be adequate replacement in the EC, 2 starters for 1.

Transaction 3:
either:
a) try to sign Antonio Daniels as a FA; and/or:
b) if Cat reups his contract, trade him to Cleveland for Eric Snow, if he does not, try to get Snow with Corliss

Transaction 4:
if we still have Bobby, or Tag, or both, try to use their expiring deals to get PJ Brown from New Orleans -- perfect Phil power forward + nice and old too.

Transaction 5:
resign Mo Evans
resign Darius

More would have to be done, especially by bringing in a few more three point shooters, and Pierce and KG alone put us at the cap. Nonetheless, now THIS core looks like a Phil Jackson team. Its no longer us, but this is the sort of thing PJ could coach into contention:

Kevin Garnett
Paul Pierce
Eric Snow
PJ Brown
Antonio Daniels

Brian Skinner
Mo Evans
Darius Songaila
Kevin Martin

+ 1 of Kandi/Hoiberg/Hudson

LPKingsFan · May 10, 2005

Bricklayer said:

Just for kicks, for all you PJ lovers out there -- this is what a PJ friendly Kings team could look like:

Transaction 1:
Mike Bibby
Brad Miller
for
Kevin Garnett

variations/throw ins to make salary work:
a) Fred Hoiberg to us (makes salary work, perfect player for PJ)
b) Olowokandi for Tag (makes salary work, maybe clears problem player for Wolves, Kandi might actually work like Cartwright/Longley for Phil)
c) Hudson for Bobby (makes salary work, clears problem player/salary fro Wolves, doubtful PJ guy)

Transaction 2:
Peja Stojakovic
Kenny Thomas
for
Paul Pierce

notes: not sure whether Thomas works for Boston given contract, but if Walker is gone, Thomas might be adequate replacement in the EC, 2 starters for 1.

Transaction 3:
either:
a) try to sign Antonio Daniels as a FA; or:
b) if Cat reups his contract, trade him to Cleveland for Eric Snow, if he does not, try to get Snow with Corliss

Transaction 4:
if we still have Bobby, or Tag, or both, try to use their expiring deals to get PJ Brown from New Orleans -- perfect Phil power forward + nice and old too.

Transaction 5:
resign Mo Evans
resign Darius

More would have to be done, especially by bringing in a few more three point shooters, and Pierce and KG alone put us at the cap. Nonetheless, now THIS core looks like a Phil Jackson team. Its no longer us, but this is the sort of thing PJ could coach into contention:

Kevin Garnett
Paul Pierce
Eric Snow
PJ Brown

Brian Skinner
Mo Evans
Darius Songaila
Kevin Martin

+ 1 of Kandi/Hoiberg/Hudson
+ midlevel FA

Hey! This time you really did steal my idea! PJ Thread

Bricklayer · May 10, 2005

LPKingsFan said:

totally missed that -- sorry.

great minds and all that

LPKingsFan · May 10, 2005

Bricklayer said:

Haha, that's fine. As long as we can be co-GM's

ParniValjak · May 10, 2005

Anyone interested in Mutambo as a cheap, short term option, shotblocker and rebounder??????

bbb · May 10, 2005

Mutumbo? Sure, why not? He would be the toughest frontcourt player on our team. That's not saying a whole lot, but he would bring some shotblocking ability.

However, don't we already have a veteran (READ

ver-the-hill) shotblocker who can't jump, shoot, pass, or catch the ball===Ostertag.

At least Mutumbo is in shape and shows some aggression. But we're paying Tag $4mil, but if we can get Mutumbo for the veteran minimum, why not?

hrdboild · May 10, 2005

Alright, I guess I can get a little crazy too. What about this trade:

Toronto Trades:
Jalen Rose
Eric Williams
#16 Pick

Sacramento Trades:
Kenny Thomas
Bobby Jackson
Brian Skinner
Corliss Williamson

Toronto gets a capable starting forward to play alongside Bosh (Thomas) and three quality bench players at PG, SF, and PF without giving up much in return except a huge contract which still has two years left and a good SF role player (who's already said he wants out of Toronto) and one of their first round picks. I think the draft pick may be the sticking point. But regardless Toronto needs players and even when Jalen Rose comes off the books, it remains to be seen whether anybody will willingly go to Toronto.

We can draft Ike Diogu and Jarret Jack with the #16 and #23 pick (maybe) which gives us a developing PF and a replacement for Bobby at PG. We'd still need a starting PF for the time being and preferably another backup center. Songaila maybe comes back for another year. Rose's contract seems ridiculous, but he could play SG for two years and then give us a huge chunk of change to look for another starter. Sign a decent PF/C with the MLE and this could be the lineup. Flawed, but with an eye towards the future. In another couple years, we're a contender again.

Bibby/Jack
Rose/Evans/Martin
Stojakovic/Williams
Gadzuric/Songaila/Diogu
Miller/OTag

captain bill · May 10, 2005

Reading a lot of these threads is pretty absurd. It's one thing to say who we want (perfectly acceptable) but a lot of fans, esp on realgm, seem to think that they can somehow control what their gm is going to do. Looking at the Pierce trade discussions, Boston fans say things like Ainge wants to deal Pierce, and then look at trades involving him and say "no way, I like Pierce too much." Seriously people, you can't control what the team does. If you discuss trades, discuss what's good and bad, and the possibilities. Your personal sentiments for a player don't actually enter into a GM's mind.

VF21 · May 10, 2005

captain bill said:

People are going to discuss whatever trades they think might work. Some of them may not be logical, but who cares? The main point is some people do like to talk about it and read about it, so if you don't like them, just move on to the next thread.

Seriously.

SacTownKid · May 11, 2005

Isn't Garnett a PF???

Bricklayer · May 11, 2005

SacTownKid said:

Or a SF -- has played both. What was that a reference too?

SacTownKid · May 11, 2005

Bricklayer said:

It just seems everybody puts KG in the lineup in the SF position. Is he going to gaurd Lebron?

Bricklayer · May 11, 2005

SacTownKid said:

Is LeBron going to guard him? And actually KGs versatility has always allowed him to guard almsot anybody who's not PG. A couple of years ago he played SF without incident. I do think of him as a PF because of the height/incredible rebounding etc., and my idea for getting him would be to basically reacquire young/healthy Webber, and maybe better, to run our high post offense through. But you put him at SF, and pair him with a true PF and C and you have one of the most intimidating frontlines in history and may not get outrebounded in a game again, basically ever.

16to93 · May 11, 2005

Step 1- Resign Mobley for 20 million.

Step 2- Milwaukee resigns Micheal Redd for 30 million.

Step 3- Trade Bobby Jackson and Cuttino Mobley for Redd and Anthony Goldwire (low salary player).

Bibby
Redd
Stojakovic
Thomas???
Miller

House
Evans
Corlliss
Songailia
Ostertag

I haven't came up with anything good for the PF position.

NBAGURU · May 11, 2005

Trade:
Peja Stojakovic and Bobby Jackson

for:
Lebron James

I wish......or maybe not.....hhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmm.

ReinadelosReys · May 11, 2005

Bricklayer said:

Is LeBron going to guard him? And actually KGs versatility has always allowed him to guard almsot anybody who's not PG. A couple of years ago he played SF without incident. I do think of him as a PF because of the height/incredible rebounding etc., and my idea for getting him would be to basically reacquire young/healthy Webber, and maybe better, to run our high post offense through. But you put him at SF, and pair him with a true PF and C and you have one of the most intimidating frontlines in history and may not get outrebounded in a game again, basically ever.

::drools::

Note to self: Must remember the reasons I dislike KG in the first place

hrdboild · May 11, 2005

PejaHoops16 said:

I'm wondering why Milwaukee would trade Micheal Redd for Cuttino Mobley. They don't have salary problems. I guess if Redd wants to go to Sac, that could happen as a sign and trade - but he's going to get bigger offers from other teams (namely, Cleveland). I think he's more likely to re-sign with Milwaukee than to sign with Sacramento. But I do like the trade if somehow he does want to come here. Bobby is a tough guy to replace, but he'll be gone in a year anyway so it would be good to get something in return.

D-Mass · May 11, 2005

I don't have any great trades to propose...no time to get on realgm. But, I think we first need to address our biggest problem. Our biggest problem reared it's ugly head during the Seattle series. Was it Peja? I don't think so. Was it Mobley? Some could argue that, but we got P O U N D E D inside by sub-par post players. I agree that Mobley is not the right fit for our team, but I think with more in the post and a new mentality (if that's possible), MOST of our current players will be great. If some players need to go, let's make sure they go for the sake of a bad-azz post player. let's not make all kinds of crazy trades for another guard that shoots well from time to time and isn't a defensive stopper. Besides a different mentality, I don't really see that Redd is going to give us anything much better than Mobley.

16to93 · May 11, 2005

I don't think that he's as much of a guy who shoots it as soon as he catches it. He also would fit in better with our system.

Entity · May 11, 2005

Lets face it Miller is a great shooter and seems to be a great guy to have on your team but he is the center of our weakness on the inside. We have to address that with a very dominate PF. The only ones that could make up for that are Big Ben or KG maybe TD. These mid level PF's that we mention will not make up for that weakness. now for the proposal

Miller/Mobley/Jackson to MINN

KG and 1st rd pck to SAC

Thomas/Tag MINN"S 1st rd pck to IND

Artest to SAC

Then we go after a Dan Gazuric or someone like that Also pick Matt Barnes backup from FA

Bibby/House/Barnes( i listed him as possibe pg because of that one game he played PG for a bit and had 7 ast that game he did a great job at pg for that game.
Artest/Evans/Martin
Peja/Williamson/Barnes
KG/Songaila
???/Skinner or vice versa Then we draft a combo 4/5 guy

I know out Center spot looks weak but even Skinner is better than Ervin Johnson or Olowakandi was last year and MInn made it to WCF

bbb · May 12, 2005

I agree with Entity that our backcourt is great and that our biggest weakness is our frontcourt toughness/rebounding/etc. However, the MIN/SAC trade is ridiculous. If we were to trade with MIN, we would have to give up some sourt of combination of Bibby/Peja/Miller (some would even say we would have to give up all 3). Plus, we won't have the high draft picks that MIN would want in a trade. Remember, they would do this trade to have a brighter future, and be competitive in the short-term (IN THAT ORDER). If they just wanted to remain quasi-contenders, they would keep KG and put scrub players around him. I just don't see any KG trades going though at this point...

However, I like the idea of trading Miller (not that I like the idea, just that I would rather have him go than Bibby or Peja). I used to be in the camp of "TRADE PEJA," but after thinking about it, Miller seems to be the odd man out. Our backcourt is great with Bibby and Peja (though I want another SG), but our frontcourt is SOOOO weak, and that starts with Miller. I love the guy, but he plays no defense, doesn't rebound as well as he should, and is only a good offensive player. We have enough of those players already. Trading him would only be a good idea if we could get a dominant LOW-post player who can play outside (as opposed to yet another high post player who can't post up to save his life). That would create the necessary spacing for Peja and Bibby to shoot and, yes, even Peja, drive past the closing out defenders.

While I can't think of a legit trade for Miller at this time, I am curious as to people's response to this and what you think would be a fair trade for him

bbb

hrdboild · May 12, 2005

Alright, I'm going to give it another go-round. Call this version 3.0.

Trade #1: Sign-and-trade involving Toronto.
Kenny Thomas
Bobby Jackson
for
Donyell Marshall (sign and trade)
Eric Williams

We get a starting PF and a solid backup SF. Toronto gets a starting SF and a proven PG who can backup Alston for a year or possibly start if needed. This also doesn't cut into our MLE which we'll need to sign...

Chris Anderson. Opted out of his Player Option with New Orleans. Puts up pretty good numbers as a backup PF - 7.7pts 6.1rebs 1.1assts 1.5blks in 21 min this season. Probably will make somewhere around 2-3 million.

Trade #2: Sign and trade involving LA Clippers
Brian Skinner
#23 Pick
for
Marko Jaric

I'd hate to give up the draft pick, but Jaric is available now and it's unlikely we could sign both him and Andserson with the MLE. The Clipps are pretty well covered at SG and PG, so they might take a defensive PF to help round out the bench - with another first round pick to sweeten the deal.

Bibby/Jaric
Jaric/Evans/Martin
Stojakovic/Williams/Williamson
Marshall/Anderson
Miller/OTag

Establish a three-man rotation at the guard spots. Bibby plays about 36 minutes. Jaric plays 12 minutes at PG when Bibby is out and another 24 minutes at SG. That leaves 24 minutes for Evans at SG coming off the bench. Hopefully late in the season Martin can see some time in the rotation too, depending on what's needed.

At SF we have the ultimate versatility. Peja is in there for all around offense and long range shooting. Eric Williams gives us a defensive specialist. And rounding it out we've got Corliss with his inside game. I expect Peja and Williams to account for most of the minutes. Williamson is still kind of wasted here, and ideally he could be traded for another PF/C.

At PF we have some interesting options. Marshall isn't a traditional PF, he's got that outside jumper which is going to be trouble for a lot of opposing PFs used to banging around inside. Anderson brings energy off the bench with scoring, rebounding, and the occasional acrobatic block. If we still have that draft pick, we should pick up a PF to give us more depth here. Songaila is still an option, but I think he'll be more useful to someone else.

Center is still a weak spot for this team though Tag has the potential to be a defensive presence in the lane. What's missing is a young, athletic 7 foot shot blocker. That will have to be addressed either midway through the season, or the next summer. Or maybe we could try to swing a sign and trade with Mobley and perhaps Williamson to get some more size on the team. Or maybe a camp invitee impresses.

So what you've get basically is a starting lineup of five guys who can pass and shoot the ball. As long as they keep the ball moving and knock down the open shots, the high scoring offense will continue rolling. Off the bench you've got one tough defensive second unit with Evans, Williams, and Jaric at the wing positions. If Otag can play more of a role, there will at least be some defensive presence inside and you've got Anderson to grab boards and block shots and just generally be a nuisance too.

Going out:
Cuttino Mobley
Darius Songaila
Kenny Thomas
Brian Skinner
Bobby Jackson
Eddie House

Coming In:
Donyell Marshall
Eric Williams
Marko Jaric
Chris Anderson

OFFICIAL trade thread. Post trade proposals HERE! (merged)

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