OFFICIAL Fire Adelman and get _______ thread (MERGED)

#91
VF21 said:
Yeah. Especially the part about it not mattering if the Kings win or lose...

:rolleyes:

And before any of you accuse me of being just a little bitter, I'll admit it. YES, I'm bitter. I just read the Kings Notes, where Peja says he never bothers to review game tapes at home. He's got other things to do, like watch non-fiction. Sure, don't bother studying or trying to improve, Peja. Just turn it on when you get to work and turn it off when you leave the parking lot. That's cool...

...

blech.
Wow, that's amazing. Makes me want to throw up. We really do have to get rid of this guy, maybe even for a bag of apples and some extra trainers.
 
#92
swisshh said:
And Peja needs to watch tape. Everytime he gets a big man on him he shoots over him instead of driving right past him. That's just not smart offense.
That has more to do with the limitations of his game and the lack of comfort when putting the ball on the floor.
 
#94
VF21 said:
It may not be a huge leap to assume someone could be influenced by personal feelings, but I think it's unfair to make a bold statement that "he HAS mixed personal feelings with business" because you quite frankly cannot know that to be true. I believe Petrie CAN and DOES separate the personal feelings from business when it's necessary. He pulled the trigger on two pretty tough trades this year, and he did so despite personal feelings for both Doug and Chris. He did it because it was his job and he will absolutely do the best job he possibly can.

Peja has been his protege but if he had to pull the trigger on a trade to make the team better and say goodbye to Pookie, I'm sure he'd do it. In addition, he and Adelman are both professionals and if, for whatever reason, Adelman leaves it will be because it's best for the team. Personal feelings will not enter into the mix.

Whether he has made the right personnel changes remains to be seen? Sorry. I have to patently disagree with that statement. He made trades that were necessary. I may not agree with the timing, but you cannot fault the logic behind him.

At this point, I want to inject a thank you. Odd as it seems, being able to discuss this has actually made me feel a little less distraught.

;)
I think it is safe to say that neither one of us can say for sure what Petries motives are and if personal relationships ever enter into any of his decisions.
But at this moment in time even though he has traded Christie and Webber his friend RA and his protege Peja are still part of the Kings organization. Having said that I was not advocating that they leave, just pointing out that I personally felt that he probably has mixed his personal feelings with business. How can he not? Even if it has never happened; because of his relationship with RA and Peja it certainly could have the appearance that RA and Peja have a little more sway than others might. I am not saying that I know for sure what he is thinking, what his motives are or to predict what he will do in the future. It was just food for thought.
 
#95
Flip Saunders? Ugh, He had KG and only got out of the 1st round of the playoffs once? Why would we want him? Like he was really succesful in controlling his players (Sprewell and Cassell).

Just because the Maloofs extended RA's contract does not guarantee he'll be coach next year. And despite the obvious loyalty between Petrie, Adelman and Carril, I don't think Petrie would hesitate to change coaches if he thought it was best for the team. (Personally, I like loyalty, I think there's far too little of it these days.) The one valid reason I think there might be for changing is that maybe the team is tuning RA out. If true, then shame on them, but change might be necessary.

A lot of people say he never adjusts. With all the injuries he's had, I'd say he adjusts amazingly well. How often has this team continued to play very well with key players gone. Do you really think Adelman had nothing to do with that? With Brad and Webb hurt last spring the Kings continued to play beautifully. I was actully pretty proud of the team for taking the Wolves to 7 games last year and falling short by one shot, considering ADleman had to adjust everything to take advantage of what Webb could and couldn't do. And this year after the trades, Brad goes down and he has to change from an offense that goes thru the big men to a guard initiated offense. And he's had all his players available for the first time in the first playoff game! It looks to me like he's made all kinds of adjustments. Why do people expect a roster like this to play like a team that was together for years?

I fully believe Petrie had to pull the trigger on the Webber trade. Everyone thought he was untradeable. So how did you expect him to get more in return? I'll bet he was shocked when the 76ers called and wanted to do a deal. What do you think he should have gotten from the trade (please don't get ridiculous and say AI or even Dalembert....that was never going to happen). Sure Webb was a 20/10/5 guy, but the problem was that his efficiency score all year was quite negative....the worst among the starters. In other words, the team was losing points with him on the floor. Something was clearly wrong. You can stat stuff and still not improve your team. Doug had a bad wheel and it was generally conceded his contract was too high. Finally, Vlade has a bad back! I love and miss those guys terribly, but let's be real. This team was not any more of a contender for a title before the trades than they are now. These trades were made for the future.

Finally, whether you like Peja or not, he explained that he did not "want" to leave Sacramento, but it appears there was friction between him and Webber. Peja said he "offered" himself as the one to go. Up until the Webber trade, he said he fully expected he'd be the one to go. But I would've traded Webb in a heartbeat, before I would've traded Peja. Trading Peja would not have gotten rid of a huge contract. And if you still want to trade Peja, he'll be more appealing to a lot of teams than Webber would have been. Why...because a lot of teams will take a chance on a player who's contract isn't huge and is expiring at the end of next season.

I was listening to another season ticket holder today on KHTK who said he was selling his season tickets, becasue the team was so bad and wasn't going to win a championship in the next 15 years. :eek: Geez! All I could think was. you may be a season ticket holder, but you're no fan. Are Cubby fans less rabid, becasue their team isn't a champion often enough? We're Red Sox fans less rabid, because it took 86 years to win another championship? No. Those are FANS! The Kings are my team....that's all that matters.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#96
kennadog said:
Finally, whether you like Peja or not, he explained that he did not "want" to leave Sacramento, but it appears there was friction between him and Webber. Peja said he "offered" himself as the one to go. Up until the Webber trade, he said he fully expected he'd be the one to go. But I would've traded Webb in a heartbeat, before I would've traded Peja. Trading Peja would not have gotten rid of a huge contract. And if you still want to trade Peja, he'll be more appealing to a lot of teams than Webber would have been. Why...because a lot of teams will take a chance on a player who's contract isn't huge and is expiring at the end of next season.
Of course Peja explained...and put the spin on it that would put him in the best light. It doesn't change the fact he CHOSE to publicly air his trade "request" from overseas, through Ailene Voisin. It doesn't change the fact he CHOSE to state that he didn't even care where he went, as long as he got out of Sacramento.

Peja talks the talk just fine. He doesn't walk the walk. That's the problem I have with him right now. Talk is cheap. ACTIONS are what are needed and he hasn't met his obligations.

It's a business and as a highly paid, skilled employee I would have to give him a less than satisfactory performance review.

Look back at Brick's grades over the season and you'll see very little to indicate Peja has done anything over and above expectations. In fact, in reviewing the grades, it becomes obvious that Brick has actually lowered his expectations as far as Peja is concerned.

I, too, love this team which I'm sure everyone is pretty much tired of hearing. I think I have a right to hope that the players wearing the uniform are at least somewhat as dedicated to the team as I am...

GO KINGS!!!
 
#97
VF21 said:
Of course Peja explained...and put the spin on it that would put him in the best light.
Wow, how cynical. There may a lot of things to criticize about Peja on the court, but I really just can't see him as that cynical and manipulative a person.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#98
kennadog said:
...There may a lot of things to criticize about Peja on the court, but I really just can't see him as that cynical and manipulative a person.
Exactly.

He's neither sinner NOR saint, but somewhere in between... and, unfortunately, all we can do is guess.

We don't know Predrag Stojakovic the person. We know "Peja" - #16 on the Sacramento Kings.

I have no doubt that as a person he is probably kind, loving and good to his family.

As a player, however, I'm not concerned with what he does or doesn't do if it doesn't have an impact on the team. IMHO the impact he has had on the team I love the past year has not been positive and I think he - #16 - should be held accountable, just as any other player (including #4) would be. Right now, he should be doing everything he possibly can to meet the needs of the team. IMHO (again) this would include taking the time to put in a little extra study - especially when he KNOWS the team needs to find a way to stop Ray Allen. I just don't see #16 putting forth the effort and it is upsetting.
 
#99
SInce 1996, only 3 different men have been coaches of teams that have won the championship: Phil Jackson, Pop, and Larry Brown. I really don't see us getting any of them, so firing Adleman to get another coach that has not recently led their team to a championship seems a little pointless. Among active coaches only Lawrence Frank, Byron Scott, and Pop have a higher playoff winning percentage than RA. http://www.insidehoops.com/coaches.shtml

When you look at what he has accomplished as a coach, this season alone, there should be no question that is a great coach. Leaving out all the injuries, which by now should be just another day at the office for him, not many coaches could have led his team to a 50 win season given the same circumstances the Kings faced. Without Vlade, Doug, and Chris, the entire dynamic of this team changed, mostly mid-season. Our ENTIRE offense ran through Vlade and Chris, when they were no longer there, he had to shift his focus with a collection of players who had NO IDEA of the complexities our system.

Someone earlier in the tread said that this was not a true team, but a collection of individuals wearing the same uniform (paraphrase) and I agree. All things considered, Adleman did a WONDERFUL (I didn't say PERFECT) job.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
chelle said:
...Someone earlier in the tread said that this was not a true team, but a collection of individuals wearing the same uniform (paraphrase) and I agree. All things considered, Adleman did a WONDERFUL (I didn't say PERFECT) job.
I said it. It was me!

:D

I love it when people refer to my comments in a flattering manner.

 
I think as long as Adelman wants to coach the job should be his. We're probably going to get younger this offseason, and Adelman is actually a good teacher. His coaching philosophy is clearly sound. He has, what, 2-3 former players and protoges coaching in the league right now? He's the best ego manager in the game, better than Jackson, and that's your most important asset as a coach in the NBA. Brown is done after this year, win or lose, because he wears on people and allows others to wear on him. Unless we get Shaq/Lebron/Kobe and about 6 million more people in the Sacramento area with the attendant media circus, Jackson isn't coming. Pop will retire in San Antonio.

Now, I am also a HUGE fan of Sloan's coaching, but he's not coming to Sacramento either. Adelman is a GREAT X's and O's coach. He is clearly an excellent practice coach, as his teams have had some of the most complex systems over the past 5-6 years, and he is pretty good at making adjustments between playoff games. Moves like initiating the offense in Game 3 w/ a high pick and fade. That was brilliant. He is not, however, a great game-time coach. He's adequate, and better than most, but he relies on his players to make in-game adjustments. But so does Jackson. Phil is a worse game-time coach than Rick, by far. It's just that he always has the talent to bail him out. Coaches like Brown are rare, who can make in-game changes that decide games. That's a rare talent. I think alot of the complaints about Rick's coaching style apply to most coaches. Celtics fans are irate about Doc Rivers right now. Anyway, point being, the grass isn't always greeners. I wanted to end on a cliche. . .
 
Sounds good on paper, doesn't it? With the melt-down that went on last night, putting Tag and/or Evans into the mix might or might not have stopped Allen but it certainly wouldn't have boosted our offense. And, regardless of what you seem to think, you can stop oppponents all night long and still lose if you don't have someone on the floor making at least a few points.
Yes, but the Kings have plenty of players who can score. Putting in one or two defensive players won't suddenly turn the team into an offensive sloth. Hell, all we had in during the second half was the team's offensive players and they were still sloths. But you know what some defense can get you? Turnovers and rebounds that lead to easy transition buckets. Is that not what the Kings got in the 1st quarter of game 3?
 
I have always liked RA for the most part but it just seems that lately some of his decisions have been somewhat questionable. I think he's frustrated with all he's had to deal with this year, mid season trades, broken legs etc. and I can't blame him for that. The next 2 or 3 years are going to be challenging and he's up for it. Flip, come on give me a break (trying to be nice).
 
Is Don Nelson a good coach? Or am I going to get flamed for this post? I've always liked him back in the run TMC days. Would he come out of retirement and coach?
 
Sorry, I wouldn't let RA go for Nelson. Nelson is a good regular season coach but he's 70-85 in the post-season. RA was 67-60 at the end of last year.

The Inside Hoops webpage chelle posted earlier had this comment.
The top NBA coaches we can think of who would probably love an NBA head coaching job (again): Phil Jackson, Flip Saunders, Paul Silas, Brian HillJohnny Davis, Mo Cheeks, Jeff Bzdelik, Tim Floyd, Randy Whittman, Chris Ford, Don Casey, PJ Carlesimo, Bill Cartwright, Lenny Wilkens
Some thought Nate might lose his job with the Sonics post-season. I think that's getting less likely. ;)
 
Last edited:
ultraman206 said:
Is Don Nelson a good coach? Or am I going to get flamed for this post? I've always liked him back in the run TMC days. Would he come out of retirement and coach?
Well, if he did return and coach in Sac, at least that's 3-4 less tech fouls he'll rack up. Seems like he always got T'd and tossed when coaching against the Kings.:D
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Don Nelson never has and never will win anything. It would be beyond pointless. Intentionally hire the most proven playoff loser in the league, amybe the history of the league, to replace a guy who has done everything but win a title? That's senseless. Or Flip Saunders? Mr. 30% win percentage in the playoffs? At best, and I do mean best, that's change just to change. And quite likely you've taken a step back. They're good coaches, but any complaints about them and/or weaknesses are exactly the same as they are for Rick.


If we really turn the team over, and Rick maybe doesn't want any part of it, look to a younger coach who at least has a chance to be something different and special.
 
Well, IF Adelman's gone, which is about as likely to happen as Jerome James keeping up these numbers next season is, I'd love to see either Flip, Silas or Lenny Wilkins take over. Again, not going to happen. Not this year.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
KingCookie said:
Well, IF Adelman's gone, which is about as likely to happen as Jerome James keeping up these numbers next season is, I'd love to see either Flip, Silas or Lenny Wilkins take over. Again, not going to happen. Not this year.
Lenny Wilkens? :eek:

I remember when he was a good coach. Back about the time the new 5.45" floppies being DOUBLE-sided was still pretty cool.
 
Didn't Adelman and staff get signed for another year?

I don't think they're going to get fired. No reasonable person expected the Kings to
go that far this year.
 
Bricklayer said:
Back about the time the new 5.45" floppies being DOUBLE-sided was still pretty cool.
Cool?? Those were awesome. You flip up the latch, pull it out, turn it over, put it back in, and BAM! twice as much storage space. I'm still pissed that the 3.5" disks took over. Those things weren't cool (except for the little window thingie).
 
Bricklayer said:
Lenny Wilkens? :eek:

I remember when he was a good coach. Back about the time the new 5.45" floppies being DOUBLE-sided was still pretty cool.
My god, I can't stand Adelman(and I still haven't heard a good reason as to why he should be back) but Lenny Wilkens is even worse at this point.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Ryle said:
My god, I can't stand Adelman(and I still haven't heard a good reason as to why he should be back) but Lenny Wilkens is even worse at this point.
Good reasons he should be back:

5 straight 50 win seasons
held team together despite ridiculous turnover/injuries
he can get you to the Finals, has proven it
knows the system, indeed helped build the system


Rick's one of those classic "all he does is win" coaches. I disagree with a number of things he does/has done, but all he does is keep on winning doing it his way. Year after year after year. Mentioned before that he is going to wind up as one of the 10 winningest coaches to ever coach in the NBA before he's done. And in the absence of anything more obvious, I think his great skill has to be "getting his players to work together and buy into the system". And that's actually an absolutely huge skill to have. Every year, his teams come out and play like pros.