May I ask... what DOES Rick Adelman bring to this team? i.e. what is his best attribute? I ask only out of curiosity and do not mean to step on anyones toes. I ask both the RA supporters as well as the haters. I know he has a good winning record etc; but what is he best known around the league as? As coaches goes I think:
- Brown is best defensive coach
- Jackson is best at ego massages
- Pop is best fundamentals
- Karl is best discipline
- etc.
So what is Adelman good at as a coach? I'm no expert and just thought I'd ask some of you with more basketball knowledge.
- Brown is best defensive coach
- Jackson is best at ego massages
- Pop is best fundamentals
- Karl is best discipline
- etc.
So what is Adelman good at as a coach? I'm no expert and just thought I'd ask some of you with more basketball knowledge.
Not calling timeouts in a timely manner.
Using a short rotation.
Putting people in the dog house and rarely letting them out.
Staying calm and cool when the team needs someone to FIRE them up.
Not putting in a defensive presence (Tag) when one is sorely needed because he thinks he just HAS to have some offense. (when in reality some good defensive stops can fuel the offense.)
Defense and rebounding not huge priorities.
Seemingly lacking the skills to win a championship (but not the excuses)
I guess I have listed enough to get properly flamed.
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ImaKingsFan said:
Not calling timeouts in a timely manner.
Using a short rotation.
Putting people in the dog house and rarely letting them out.
Staying calm and cool when the team needs someone to FIRE them up.
Not putting in a defensive presence (Tag) when one is sorely needed because he thinks he just HAS to have some offense. (when in reality some good defensive stops can fuel the offense.)
Defense and rebounding not huge priorities.
I guess I have listed enough to get properly flamed.
Using a short rotation.
Putting people in the dog house and rarely letting them out.
Staying calm and cool when the team needs someone to FIRE them up.
Not putting in a defensive presence (Tag) when one is sorely needed because he thinks he just HAS to have some offense. (when in reality some good defensive stops can fuel the offense.)
Defense and rebounding not huge priorities.
I guess I have listed enough to get properly flamed.
He doesn't hold his players accountable.
His players do not listen to him.
He pretty much lets the team do whatever they want
He constantly talks about the offense being the problem and neglects to mention how poor our defense is(as previously mentioned).
Ok. How about we send RA to Utah and we take Jerry Sloan. Or maybe, the Utah Jazz is thinking of firing him because, yes, he has made it twice to the finals, but no ring.
Come on people. It is not RA's fault. Get over it. He has done the best he can with what he has been given. And for the record. I want to see Cat., Thomas and Corliss stay in Sac. I think they bring a lot to this team. And were people watching the game last night. Peja showed up. They didn't get it to him in the 4th qtr. It is so easy to blame Peja, or Mike or Rick when it takes a team. Let's see what happens next year, and remember, no matter how frustrating it is for us fans, it is more so for the players and coaches.
Come on people. It is not RA's fault. Get over it. He has done the best he can with what he has been given. And for the record. I want to see Cat., Thomas and Corliss stay in Sac. I think they bring a lot to this team. And were people watching the game last night. Peja showed up. They didn't get it to him in the 4th qtr. It is so easy to blame Peja, or Mike or Rick when it takes a team. Let's see what happens next year, and remember, no matter how frustrating it is for us fans, it is more so for the players and coaches.
Pointing out some of the coaches deficiencies does not mean that I am calling on him to be fired. And that is unrealistic to say he does not share some of the blame. He is after all the coach and he shares the blame and the accolades for the teams failures and successes. It gets so frustrating that you cannot criticize some of his decisions without the patented response as to who else is going to do the job. Why can't he learn from his mistakes? What is so wrong with fans wanting him to realize that he too can adjust and make changes when what he is presently doing is not working for him?
It is common knowledge that he is personal friends with RA and that
Peja is his protege. I was pointing out that when you mix business with your personal feelings it can possibly hurt the business end of it. Whether he has made the right personnel changes remains to be seen. I do not think it is unfair to point out that Webber who wanted to stay was traded and Peja who said he wanted go is still here. I cannot prove that personal feelings entered into it, and I am well aware there were other mitigating circumstances. But in a forum such as this where ideas are allowed to circulate, I don't think I took a cheap shot at him by bringing it up. Petrie is only human, it is not a huge leap to assume that he could be influenced in some way by his personal feelings for these people.
Peja is his protege. I was pointing out that when you mix business with your personal feelings it can possibly hurt the business end of it. Whether he has made the right personnel changes remains to be seen. I do not think it is unfair to point out that Webber who wanted to stay was traded and Peja who said he wanted go is still here. I cannot prove that personal feelings entered into it, and I am well aware there were other mitigating circumstances. But in a forum such as this where ideas are allowed to circulate, I don't think I took a cheap shot at him by bringing it up. Petrie is only human, it is not a huge leap to assume that he could be influenced in some way by his personal feelings for these people.
Adelman should have been let go earlier, not because he's a terrible coach, but because this team needs to change. This team was built around a pretty style of play that worked with the right roster, but not anymore. Today's NBA winners win by stopping the other team from scoring, or possibly by scoring at an unmatchable pace (PHX - of course this depends on their playoff success). We can't do either, and haven't been since Webber went down vs the Mavs a few years back. The window closed that day, and it's been ugly since.
Getting a roster in tact for Rick's system is very difficult to do, it did not happen overnight. Now, it's clearly over, unless Petrie wants to rebuild over the next few years, which I don't see happening, as we have many superb players avaiable, and trading chips. A new coach with a new system is a much more plausible change.
---------
And on a side note, don't let this game get to you so much. I've noticed a high level of emotion in this series, as if people were expecting the Kings to win, and are outraged that they won't.
NEWSFLASH: We were the sixth seed, and probably the 7th best team in the playoffs, possibly 8th. We can't rebound, defend, and now, we can't even pass or score. Expecting anything other than a first-round exit is only a set-up for disappointment. Enjoy the excitement for what it's worth.
Getting a roster in tact for Rick's system is very difficult to do, it did not happen overnight. Now, it's clearly over, unless Petrie wants to rebuild over the next few years, which I don't see happening, as we have many superb players avaiable, and trading chips. A new coach with a new system is a much more plausible change.
---------
And on a side note, don't let this game get to you so much. I've noticed a high level of emotion in this series, as if people were expecting the Kings to win, and are outraged that they won't.
NEWSFLASH: We were the sixth seed, and probably the 7th best team in the playoffs, possibly 8th. We can't rebound, defend, and now, we can't even pass or score. Expecting anything other than a first-round exit is only a set-up for disappointment. Enjoy the excitement for what it's worth.
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Like I said in the middle of my post it is the team. Not one guy, be it RA, Peja, Bibby. I did not mean for it to sound like I think RA shouldn't have to answer for some of the problems. MY bad. And, if you didn't get the sarcasm about getting Jerry Sloan, I am sorry, because I was being sarcastic about it. I am in full agreement that RA and the players should learn from their mistakes. Of course that is what we want. The point I was trying to make, was for everyone to stop throwing around the "Fire Adelman" mantra because IMHO it is ridiculous. Just as the team is learning to play together, so is the coach. Let's see what happens in the offseason.
It may not be a huge leap to assume someone could be influenced by personal feelings, but I think it's unfair to make a bold statement that "he HAS mixed personal feelings with business" because you quite frankly cannot know that to be true. I believe Petrie CAN and DOES separate the personal feelings from business when it's necessary. He pulled the trigger on two pretty tough trades this year, and he did so despite personal feelings for both Doug and Chris. He did it because it was his job and he will absolutely do the best job he possibly can.
Peja has been his protege but if he had to pull the trigger on a trade to make the team better and say goodbye to Pookie, I'm sure he'd do it. In addition, he and Adelman are both professionals and if, for whatever reason, Adelman leaves it will be because it's best for the team. Personal feelings will not enter into the mix.
Whether he has made the right personnel changes remains to be seen? Sorry. I have to patently disagree with that statement. He made trades that were necessary. I may not agree with the timing, but you cannot fault the logic behind him.
At this point, I want to inject a thank you. Odd as it seems, being able to discuss this has actually made me feel a little less distraught.
peja16 - I'm sorry it doesn't matter to you if the Kings win or lose. If it's all the same, I'll let it keep mattering to me. I know I'm probably not living up to your standards for life, but hey - I guess I'll just have to learn to live with the disappointment.
Peja has been his protege but if he had to pull the trigger on a trade to make the team better and say goodbye to Pookie, I'm sure he'd do it. In addition, he and Adelman are both professionals and if, for whatever reason, Adelman leaves it will be because it's best for the team. Personal feelings will not enter into the mix.
Whether he has made the right personnel changes remains to be seen? Sorry. I have to patently disagree with that statement. He made trades that were necessary. I may not agree with the timing, but you cannot fault the logic behind him.
At this point, I want to inject a thank you. Odd as it seems, being able to discuss this has actually made me feel a little less distraught.
peja16 - I'm sorry it doesn't matter to you if the Kings win or lose. If it's all the same, I'll let it keep mattering to me. I know I'm probably not living up to your standards for life, but hey - I guess I'll just have to learn to live with the disappointment.
peja16 said:
And on a side note, don't let this game get to you so much. I've noticed a high level of emotion in this series, as if people were expecting the Kings to win, and are outraged that they won't.
NEWSFLASH: We were the sixth seed, and probably the 7th best team in the playoffs, possibly 8th. We can't rebound, defend, and now, we can't even pass or score. Expecting anything other than a first-round exit is only a set-up for disappointment. Enjoy the excitement for what it's worth.
And find a more fulfilling, and less stressful hobby. When the Kings win or lose, it really doesn't matter whatsoever. If you just took a walk or read a book instead, imagine how much better you're life would be. Find something where your success is measured by your own hard work and dedication, not by some dopes you'll never meet, who could care less about what you're doing.
I missed the entire season, as I didn't have television or internet until the week of the playoffs. And it's been absolutely fantastic. The only day of the season I can say I was informed was when Chris Webber was traded, which became my 'groundhog day'. Needless to say, I live in eternal bliss
Go Raptors!
NEWSFLASH: We were the sixth seed, and probably the 7th best team in the playoffs, possibly 8th. We can't rebound, defend, and now, we can't even pass or score. Expecting anything other than a first-round exit is only a set-up for disappointment. Enjoy the excitement for what it's worth.
And find a more fulfilling, and less stressful hobby. When the Kings win or lose, it really doesn't matter whatsoever. If you just took a walk or read a book instead, imagine how much better you're life would be. Find something where your success is measured by your own hard work and dedication, not by some dopes you'll never meet, who could care less about what you're doing.
I missed the entire season, as I didn't have television or internet until the week of the playoffs. And it's been absolutely fantastic. The only day of the season I can say I was informed was when Chris Webber was traded, which became my 'groundhog day'. Needless to say, I live in eternal bliss
Go Raptors!
We are not idiots here. We know the outcome of games and trades etc do not directly affect our lives. But it is our passion for the game and for our team that makes us want the win and makes us exasperated when it doesn't happen. I am sure a lot of us, take walks, and read and are actually quite literate people with other interests. I for one am a professional singer who performs on stage every weekend and I find great pleasure and accomplishment in that. I am 100% sure that my SELF worth is not comprised of the NBA and it's players. Can I get a show of hands as to whose self worth is wrapped up in what the Kings do? But, hello?!!! It is NBA season and the playoffs. Where would sports be without true fans who go crazy about games or music or any other fan based job?
Pathetic.
Rick Adelman has done a lot for the franchise. Our MAIN stumbling block has been injuries, not poor coaching.
When the time comes for a new coach, it won't change what Adelman has done for the team, the fans, the franchise, and basketball in general. He is NOT a bad coach and I defy you or anyone else to name a coach who was AVAILABLE and could have taken the team any further than we got in the good years.
We lost in game 7 to the Lakers because our team collectively FORGOT how to shoot free throws. That cannot be blamed on the coach. He isn't the one standing on the stripe and taking the shots.
We lost in 2003 because our power forward had the unmitigated gall to collapse in a heap on the floor...and not get up. Blame? Not Adelman.
In 2004, while I think they may have pushed Webber back into the line-up a little too strongly, when it came to the playoffs, I don't think Adelman made any blunders that cost us the ring. If anything, the cheap shot Peeler took that cost us a suspension might have been attributable.
There are other reasons, of course, but to say the Kings would have 2 or 3 rings if Adelman hadn't been our coach just doesn't make much sense.
Rick Adelman has done a lot for the franchise. Our MAIN stumbling block has been injuries, not poor coaching.
When the time comes for a new coach, it won't change what Adelman has done for the team, the fans, the franchise, and basketball in general. He is NOT a bad coach and I defy you or anyone else to name a coach who was AVAILABLE and could have taken the team any further than we got in the good years.
We lost in game 7 to the Lakers because our team collectively FORGOT how to shoot free throws. That cannot be blamed on the coach. He isn't the one standing on the stripe and taking the shots.
We lost in 2003 because our power forward had the unmitigated gall to collapse in a heap on the floor...and not get up. Blame? Not Adelman.
In 2004, while I think they may have pushed Webber back into the line-up a little too strongly, when it came to the playoffs, I don't think Adelman made any blunders that cost us the ring. If anything, the cheap shot Peeler took that cost us a suspension might have been attributable.
There are other reasons, of course, but to say the Kings would have 2 or 3 rings if Adelman hadn't been our coach just doesn't make much sense.
I'm not saying Petrie should rush to judgment and fire Adelman; but at the same time he shouldn't be without blame either. He is definately at fault for leaving only one dimensional players in the game while the three most defensive minded players (Tag, Skinner, Evans) stay on the bench the entire game as the Kings simply tried to outscore the Sonics even as no one was hitting shots and no one could close to stopping Allen.
peja16 said:
Adelman should have been let go earlier, not because he's a terrible coach, but because this team needs to change. This team was built around a pretty style of play that worked with the right roster, but not anymore. Today's NBA winners win by stopping the other team from scoring, or possibly by scoring at an unmatchable pace (PHX - of course this depends on their playoff success). We can't do either, and haven't been since Webber went down vs the Mavs a few years back. The window closed that day, and it's been ugly since.
Getting a roster in tact for Rick's system is very difficult to do, it did not happen overnight. Now, it's clearly over, unless Petrie wants to rebuild over the next few years, which I don't see happening, as we have many superb players avaiable, and trading chips. A new coach with a new system is a much more plausible change.
---------
And on a side note, don't let this game get to you so much. I've noticed a high level of emotion in this series, as if people were expecting the Kings to win, and are outraged that they won't.
NEWSFLASH: We were the sixth seed, and probably the 7th best team in the playoffs, possibly 8th. We can't rebound, defend, and now, we can't even pass or score. Expecting anything other than a first-round exit is only a set-up for disappointment. Enjoy the excitement for what it's worth.
And find a more fulfilling, and less stressful hobby. When the Kings win or lose, it really doesn't matter whatsoever. If you just took a walk or read a book instead, imagine how much better you're life would be. Find something where your success is measured by your own hard work and dedication, not by some dopes you'll never meet, who could care less about what you're doing.
I missed the entire season, as I didn't have television or internet until the week of the playoffs. And it's been absolutely fantastic. The only day of the season I can say I was informed was when Chris Webber was traded, which became my 'groundhog day'. Needless to say, I live in eternal bliss
Go Raptors!
Getting a roster in tact for Rick's system is very difficult to do, it did not happen overnight. Now, it's clearly over, unless Petrie wants to rebuild over the next few years, which I don't see happening, as we have many superb players avaiable, and trading chips. A new coach with a new system is a much more plausible change.
---------
And on a side note, don't let this game get to you so much. I've noticed a high level of emotion in this series, as if people were expecting the Kings to win, and are outraged that they won't.
NEWSFLASH: We were the sixth seed, and probably the 7th best team in the playoffs, possibly 8th. We can't rebound, defend, and now, we can't even pass or score. Expecting anything other than a first-round exit is only a set-up for disappointment. Enjoy the excitement for what it's worth.
And find a more fulfilling, and less stressful hobby. When the Kings win or lose, it really doesn't matter whatsoever. If you just took a walk or read a book instead, imagine how much better you're life would be. Find something where your success is measured by your own hard work and dedication, not by some dopes you'll never meet, who could care less about what you're doing.
I missed the entire season, as I didn't have television or internet until the week of the playoffs. And it's been absolutely fantastic. The only day of the season I can say I was informed was when Chris Webber was traded, which became my 'groundhog day'. Needless to say, I live in eternal bliss
Go Raptors!
You just said our three most defensive minded players are Greg Ostertag, Brian Skinner and Maurice Evans.
The three most defensive minded players of the Sacramento Kings are an out-of-shape third string center, an undersized and injured forward/center who rode the pine until coming to the Kings AND a guy who floated around Europe before coming to training camp and being added to the Kings roster?
...
I think I may have to go outside and threaten another tree.
The three most defensive minded players of the Sacramento Kings are an out-of-shape third string center, an undersized and injured forward/center who rode the pine until coming to the Kings AND a guy who floated around Europe before coming to training camp and being added to the Kings roster?
...
I think I may have to go outside and threaten another tree.
Yeah. Especially the part about it not mattering if the Kings win or lose...
And before any of you accuse me of being just a little bitter, I'll admit it. YES, I'm bitter. I just read the Kings Notes, where Peja says he never bothers to review game tapes at home. He's got other things to do, like watch non-fiction. Sure, don't bother studying or trying to improve, Peja. Just turn it on when you get to work and turn it off when you leave the parking lot. That's cool...
...
blech.
And before any of you accuse me of being just a little bitter, I'll admit it. YES, I'm bitter. I just read the Kings Notes, where Peja says he never bothers to review game tapes at home. He's got other things to do, like watch non-fiction. Sure, don't bother studying or trying to improve, Peja. Just turn it on when you get to work and turn it off when you leave the parking lot. That's cool...
...
blech.
As long as you don't try to bill me for the trees...
I actually stole that thing about our 3 most defensive players from Brick's original grades for the game post. Bobby could be added to that list, but I think the main point was that RA didn't make many adjustments, he kept the "defensive" on the bench when things got tough and hoped for the best.
It's sad but true, something has to be done quickly about this pathetic defense. Being a Kings fan used to be a double-edged sword for me: I loved the way they played such team basketball instead of one on one ball, but they couldn't stop anyone and often had a lack of effort on the boards (something that drives me nuts). Unfortunately, our defense is even worse while that fluid offense is now severely limited.
I actually stole that thing about our 3 most defensive players from Brick's original grades for the game post. Bobby could be added to that list, but I think the main point was that RA didn't make many adjustments, he kept the "defensive" on the bench when things got tough and hoped for the best.
It's sad but true, something has to be done quickly about this pathetic defense. Being a Kings fan used to be a double-edged sword for me: I loved the way they played such team basketball instead of one on one ball, but they couldn't stop anyone and often had a lack of effort on the boards (something that drives me nuts). Unfortunately, our defense is even worse while that fluid offense is now severely limited.
With the trades that were made, they were made to make this team better defensively. The personal is more adept to playing defense now: younger, more athletic and active. Yet this team hasn't gotten better at defense at all. Why? Well after nearly every loss Adleman's line is "we needed better offense". Even when the team scores 105 points that's his response. That mentality just doesn't cut it in the playoffs.
And Peja needs to watch tape. Everytime he gets a big man on him he shoots over him instead of driving right past him. That's just not smart offense.
And Peja needs to watch tape. Everytime he gets a big man on him he shoots over him instead of driving right past him. That's just not smart offense.
swisshh - The trades were NOT made to make the team better defensively. They were made primarily to get rid of large contracts held for players who had declining productivity and questions about their health. If you have evidence to the contrary, I'd certainly like to see it.
As far as Adelman's line about offense, you need to read the whole section of quotes. He also made several points about defense. He's made them all year. He cannot force players who do not have a defensive mindset to suddenly become mini-Doug Christies.
As far as Adelman's line about offense, you need to read the whole section of quotes. He also made several points about defense. He's made them all year. He cannot force players who do not have a defensive mindset to suddenly become mini-Doug Christies.
It was made for both reasons. The sentiment from people was that the move would improve them defensively. I believe when Petrie talked about players like Corliss and Skinner, he mentioned their ability to play some defense and rebound.
And you can still play team defense, but this team rarely shows focus at that end of the floor and you rarely see focus from the coach on that end of the floor. Plus, it doesn't help when you won't play some of your defensive minded players. Do the Kings have one player to stop Ray Allen? No, but thats not how you stop a major player. It's a team effort. Maybe throwing Evans and Ostertag in the game would have given Allen a bigger more physical presence to go up against and he wouldn't just be getting layups with Ostertag in the middle.
And you can still play team defense, but this team rarely shows focus at that end of the floor and you rarely see focus from the coach on that end of the floor. Plus, it doesn't help when you won't play some of your defensive minded players. Do the Kings have one player to stop Ray Allen? No, but thats not how you stop a major player. It's a team effort. Maybe throwing Evans and Ostertag in the game would have given Allen a bigger more physical presence to go up against and he wouldn't just be getting layups with Ostertag in the middle.
Well of course Petrie was going to say something like that. What else could he have said? If you are honestly trying to say you think Petrie approached the trade with the "This will make us better defensively" idea, then we are in complete and total disagreement. Webber was putting up 20/10/5... he wasn't traded away for someone who could do better.
Sounds good on paper, doesn't it? With the melt-down that went on last night, putting Tag and/or Evans into the mix might or might not have stopped Allen but it certainly wouldn't have boosted our offense. And, regardless of what you seem to think, you can stop oppponents all night long and still lose if you don't have someone on the floor making at least a few points.
Sounds good on paper, doesn't it? With the melt-down that went on last night, putting Tag and/or Evans into the mix might or might not have stopped Allen but it certainly wouldn't have boosted our offense. And, regardless of what you seem to think, you can stop oppponents all night long and still lose if you don't have someone on the floor making at least a few points.