GP actually did say HEAD coaching experience in the NBA several times, so, yes, I think he eliminated Thib and Shaw. I also think he is right to do so. We have a young team that needs help adapting to the NBA, not a head coach that is himself adapting to being an NBA head coach. If we have another coach who is more focused on proving himself rather than developing the players and the team with the wisdom of experience, then we will end up looking for another head coach next summer because nobody is going to "prove himself" to be anything with this team.
Next Kings coach : list
- Thread starter Flopi
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GP actually did say HEAD coaching experience in the NBA several times, so, yes, I think he eliminated Thib and Shaw. I also think he is right to do so. We have a young team that needs help adapting to the NBA, not a head coach that is himself adapting to being an NBA head coach. If we have another coach who is more focused on proving himself rather than developing the players and the team with the wisdom of experience, then we will end up looking for another head coach next summer because nobody is going to "prove himself" to be anything with this team.
There is no why... Just a wishful thought on my part. Like him or not, he's been pretty sucessful throughout his career. Plus his teams have always played defense. I could care less about ego's. Last time I checked, you seemed to have one. As far as I'm concerned, you can talk all the talk you want, just as long as you produce. The talk part is cheap. I've sold plenty of it on this fourm. And it still hasn't gone up in value.
If we're going for wishful thinking here, then I hope the Jazz fire Jerry Sloan and we hire him. Then the Spurs and Rockets will fire Popp and Adelman and they can be his lead assistants. To round it out, the Cavs will trade us LBJ for Kenny Thomas!
Sptsjunkie
Starter
I stand corrected. Thank you. I thought I remembered a different quote posted earlier in the thread. Well, I guess that eliminates Shaw and Thib. Still keeps Rambis alive though
I stand corrected. Thank you. I thought I remembered a different quote posted earlier in the thread. Well, I guess that eliminates Shaw and Thib. Still keeps Rambis alive though
Shoot, I think I take Rambis over Avery Johnson!
Sptsjunkie
Starter
I would too. Unfortunatley for us, I think the Lakers are very high on him. He coached the one game that Phil missed this year and all of my Laker buddies say that he is pretty much the heir apparent to Phil. With the Lakers having a young stud C already in place for the post-Kobe era, I'm not sure why Rambis would want to come to Sac unless he really believed that a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. Especially since our bird is small and has a broken wing and the two in the bush are both healthy and majestic.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Er...why?
In any case, I would have taken Rambis last hiring cycle too - but the Maloofs went so far as to meet with him after Geoff brought him to them, and damnit if Nerdman just wasn't cool and hip enough for them with Reggie sitting there flashing his pearly whites. In any case, he's largely considered the second best head coaching candidate on Phil's staff, so very hard to see that happening at this point.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
I wouldn't want Rambis over Johnson. Avery was in the finals a few years ago and was up 2-0. Of course they lost the next 4 games, but he's been deep in the playoffs, and his teams always play hard. He has experience and I like his ability to teach, and his players are receptive to him. Thats is important. The players have tp respect the coach and want to put everything out there for him. Rambis would be an improvement over Natt and Muss, but I want a proven leader with a strong personality to come in here and grab the team by the reigns and turn the organization around. I don't think Rambis could do that, but Avery could.
That being said, Avery definately would not be my top choice. My list would be:
1: Byron Scott(if available)
2: Jeff V Gundy
3: Avery Johnson
4: Eddie Jordan
5: T. Thibadeau
That being said, Avery definately would not be my top choice. My list would be:
1: Byron Scott(if available)
2: Jeff V Gundy
3: Avery Johnson
4: Eddie Jordan
5: T. Thibadeau
My feelings about Avery Johnson are pretty much tied up in the fact that it only took three years of his tenure before his players mutinied. And this wasn't a lousy team, this was a team that was in the playoffs all three years. If he gets that much love from players on a contender, imagine what might happen here on a rebuilding team. The coach doesn't have to be the players' best friend, but inspiring mutiny is not what I'd hope for.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
At least I keep my wishful thinking within the realm of possibility. If Denver doesn't make it out of the first round, there's always the faint possibility that Karl could be out. Stranger things have happened. I seriously doubt that Sloan, Pop's or Adelman are in any trouble. I appreciate your sarcasm though. At least you didn't poke fun at my nose....
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Where are my horned rim glasses?
bajaden
Hall of Famer
So the choice is either one small turkey or two eagles. Hmmm! Let me think..... Which one did you say had the broken wing?
KevinSalvadori
Bench
First thing about Westphal- he is NOT Paul West-HEAD, he of the "balls to the wall" offensive schemes and other no-D mentality. What he is (and let me start with the negative first) is a coach that had a falling out with the last marquee player he coached (Payton) and seemed at a loss for answer with teams that had nailed the fundamentals and were thus able to exploit his ambitious (and somewhat dysfunctional) defensive schemes (CHI in Finals, '94 Rockets, Jazz). He also inherited solid, complete pieces with both PHO and SEA and largely tanked in the one instance he had to execute any real player development (Pepperdine).
That said, he has experience at the collegiate (Pepperdine) and NBA (PHO and SEA) levels, and has also served as an assistant coach and executive in this league- adding to an eye for scouting and instinct on what is required in specific situations maybe outside the vision of a head coach. He runs an "up-tempo" offense that blossoms under the guise of a pass-first point guard with a high basketball IQ, this possibly great for guys like KJ (whilst he was in PHO) and *possibly* Rubio but BAD for guys like Payton, thus part of their fall-out. Add this to the fact that he played in two NBA Finals as a player and PG and could be a great tutor for a player that is very much in the same style, if not better, in *possibly* Rubio.
Petrie said he wanted someone that had NBA head coaching experience and success- Westphal coached seven years, including one NBA Final, and has a solid W/L% (.627).
Petrie said he wanted someone with NBA experience on the whole- Westphal played 12 NBA seasons (making it to the Playoffs all but three times I count) and has also served as an executive and assistant coach in Dallas, amongst other places.
Petrie said he wanted someone that could teach- Westphal coached at the collegiate level with Pepperdine and has traversed the communication gap between established pro and raw, talented kid. While he didn't set the world alight success-wise, his exposure to this type of environment should stand for something. This quality could make him the lead for this job, in addition to his belief in the Princeton offense and relationship with our local mayor. Really, it's a delicate balance. Is it better to have someone with a poor NBA record but a great reputation from the collegiate level, a la Mike Montgomery or Lon Kruger? That's a judgment call.
Hope this helps...
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Aenadin
Starter
thanks man!
he pretty much is a qualified guy OVER the likes of eddie jordan..
i like the fact that he played in the nba and was a 5time allstar (i think i read it somewhere) and has coached a finals series...well at least we know he can and was able to coach greats like payton... id take this guy over EJ any day
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KevinSalvadori
Bench
No problem. While I am still interested in Messina, I do like the idea of a more established coach with years of experience in coaching both successful and transitioning teams to really help calm these guys. My closet pick for the job is Bickerstaff, who has unbelievable experience, a reputation for coaching young players well, and has helped tutor Derrick Rose and others in both Chicago and Charlotte, as well as serving as an executive. My top five (in no preferential order):
1. Bernie Bickerstaff
2. Paul Westphal
3. Eddie Jordan
4. Lon Kruger
5. Byron Scott (if released)
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Bickerstaff has never gotten me all that excited, but I can't really give you a good reason. Maybe its because it seems as though he's been around forever and I just don't recall seeing him pacing the sidelines in the playoffs that much. In retrospect however, he does seem to have success with very young teams, something the Kings are. So I guess its not out of the question that he could be high on the list. Eddie Jordan doesn't excite me either, but I will say that I'm probably still judging him from when he was here.
Westphal has coached at all levels and played at a high level. Who knows, maybe having been an NBA executive, will give him a new prospective, and make him an even better NBA coach. Of course we don't know if he even wants to leave his cushy job in Dallas.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Oh lord -- I've mentioned before that Bickerstaff is a career long LOSER. Classy guy maybe, but he never wins, EVER. He's never won more than 46 games in a season. He's had 3 winning seasons, and 11 losing seasons. And he's been coaching since 1985. He last won a playoff game when Reagan was president. At his age the only possible reason you hire him is as a handholder to the kids for a couple of years. But he's not taking you anywhere.
Westphal bombed out of the league after the Phoenix years, and has been seen as a failure ever since. Too soft, can't control his locker room, can't coach defense. And yet he's the only one of those top 4 guys there who's ever had any real success. He was much like D'Antoni before there was D'Antoni -- taking an uber-talented run n gun Pheonix roster and making them...well soft and run n gun underacheivers (see he's REALLY like D'Antoni. Still, for having done something once upon a time that's got to trump the other guys who have done nothing ever. Just don't expect to be a serious team, to play defense, rebound, play full size lineups or do anything else that leads to the big prize.
Jordan has proved nothing year after year. Another guy who's never won more than about 46 games, doesn't coach defense, and in his case never had any control of his locker room or ability to create team chemistry. Richmond quit on him, Arenas feuded with him, Etan Thomas and Haywood were getting in weekly fistfights. His lone attraction is that Geoff probably thinks he'll kiss a little Princeton butt.
Lon Kruger was a complete and utter failure. Him getting another shot would be somewhat south of Muss getting another shot. His big year, his best, he went 33-49.
Westphal bombed out of the league after the Phoenix years, and has been seen as a failure ever since. Too soft, can't control his locker room, can't coach defense. And yet he's the only one of those top 4 guys there who's ever had any real success. He was much like D'Antoni before there was D'Antoni -- taking an uber-talented run n gun Pheonix roster and making them...well soft and run n gun underacheivers (see he's REALLY like D'Antoni. Still, for having done something once upon a time that's got to trump the other guys who have done nothing ever. Just don't expect to be a serious team, to play defense, rebound, play full size lineups or do anything else that leads to the big prize.
Jordan has proved nothing year after year. Another guy who's never won more than about 46 games, doesn't coach defense, and in his case never had any control of his locker room or ability to create team chemistry. Richmond quit on him, Arenas feuded with him, Etan Thomas and Haywood were getting in weekly fistfights. His lone attraction is that Geoff probably thinks he'll kiss a little Princeton butt.
Lon Kruger was a complete and utter failure. Him getting another shot would be somewhat south of Muss getting another shot. His big year, his best, he went 33-49.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
So what do you suggest? - pick the guy who has the best winning percentage, regardless of the talent he had on his team?
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Something like that if those are your only choices. At least in his case you KNOW that if you get enough talent on his team he can win 60. With the rest of those guys they've never proven it.
AleksandarN
Starter
Byron Scott
HighTopKicks
Bench
Scott signed a 2 yr extention @$5M per yr in 08. It's doubtful that he'll get the blame for Chandler & Posey & Peja's poor performance. CP3 needs another scorer who doesn't rely on him to get him his shots. Too many guys standing around waiting for CP3 to take a shot or pass them the ball.
Scott returns to NO next yr, IMHO.
Aenadin
Starter
a year of westphal with Messina as his assistant.. have him groom messina thats the best case scenario
if we get better next year extend his contract... if somehow it ruptures the locker room presence messina takes over...
i dont want to commit to a 3 to 4 year year with avery and jordan...
if we get better next year extend his contract... if somehow it ruptures the locker room presence messina takes over...
i dont want to commit to a 3 to 4 year year with avery and jordan...
ParniValjak
All-Star
QoooooQ
G-League
If they lose by almost 60 again in game 5, he might not be back.
I think there's a VERY real chance that Scott gets the boot. Cuz if he signs with the Kings for 3 million/year for 4 years...then the next two years the Hornets are only obligated to pay him 2 million a season, instead of 5 million a season...saving them roughly 6 million dollars over the next years minus the cost of the new (probably inexperienced and cheap) coach.
With Shinn the way he is, I could very well see him trying to cut some costs here.
With Shinn the way he is, I could very well see him trying to cut some costs here.
HighTopKicks
Bench
Messina is the highest paid coach in Europe. He'd demand top salary to come to the US. Maybe, in the $5-6M range. That's more than the Kings paid Petrie & Theus combined. And, you still have to pay Westphal.
Doen't expect the Kings to spend more than $4M.
I'd be surprised if they spent more than 3 annually.
DocHolliday
Starter
I actually think it would be in reverse. He's made money, he's won championships, but for a shot at the NBA he'd take a little less for the opportunity if that was his goal.
To me the NBA is still the pinnacle of all basketball league's. The opportunity at coaching in the NBA and seeing if you can coach and win in both leagues would worth taking a little bit of a pay decrease.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
I like Messina, and most of seasons he would be at the top of my list. Everything I have heard about him leads me to believe he would be successful in the nba if given a good opportunity.
But this offseason we have better coaches to chose from who are proven nba head coaches. I would like us to sign a coach which involves a minimal amount of risk-meaning we know they have been successful in the nba. I think G Karl is staying put, but B Scott and the Hornets might look to go their seperate ways. Scott would be my #1 choice. Van Gundy, A Johnson, E Jordan, and P Westphal would all get the nod over Messina if it was my decision. We can't afford another mistake, and although I thin Messina will be successful in this league at some point I want a proven nba head coach.
But this offseason we have better coaches to chose from who are proven nba head coaches. I would like us to sign a coach which involves a minimal amount of risk-meaning we know they have been successful in the nba. I think G Karl is staying put, but B Scott and the Hornets might look to go their seperate ways. Scott would be my #1 choice. Van Gundy, A Johnson, E Jordan, and P Westphal would all get the nod over Messina if it was my decision. We can't afford another mistake, and although I thin Messina will be successful in this league at some point I want a proven nba head coach.
