Need for a defensive wing - realistic targets?

VF21 said:
Since you're proposing it, what do you think? Why would the Magic consider it?
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I didn't see this before, somehow... I think the Magic would have to consider it at the very least. With Collison, you would be getting a great backup PG that has the ability to score (Orlando is 20th in PPG as a team) and with Ben you would still be getting a young prospect while also freeing up more room for Mario Hezonja and Fournier (they will be the future). I also think they need some veteran guidance, which Collison would be able to bring and Anderson with his championship experience (yes, I know, but Anderson really brings nothing else). With Payton also being 6-4, you can actually run out Collison/Payton and not be crucified (unlike us with Rondo/Collison). Obviously, Oladipo would instantly upgrade our defense from the wing spot, and he's not that bad of a shooter (you have to respect him). He's also still quite young and athletic enough to run with Rondo. He's also got some creativity to him, unlike Ben. Watson or Napier would obviously be to fill in Collison's role as backup PG (though he wasn't really a backup PG). Collison would improve their scoring from the PG tremendously while providing veteran leadership. Ben would be the 3rd SG off the bench most likely, but still a nice piece to have for the right team. Anderson is a filler piece, but he does have championship experience, which does mean something to a younger team.

Honestly, I doubt this deal would make the Magic agree, but I think it would perk up their ears some. The biggest issue in this trade, IMO, is Ben. They have no real need for him.
 
Sac.Kings said:
I didn't see this before, somehow... I think the Magic would have to consider it at the very least. With Collison, you would be getting a great backup PG that has the ability to score (Orlando is 20th in PPG as a team) and with Ben you would still be getting a young prospect while also freeing up more room for Mario Hezonja and Fournier (they will be the future). I also think they need some veteran guidance, which Collison would be able to bring and Anderson with his championship experience (yes, I know, but Anderson really brings nothing else). With Payton also being 6-4, you can actually run out Collison/Payton and not be crucified (unlike us with Rondo/Collison). Obviously, Oladipo would instantly upgrade our defense from the wing spot, and he's not that bad of a shooter (you have to respect him). He's also still quite young and athletic enough to run with Rondo. He's also got some creativity to him, unlike Ben. Watson or Napier would obviously be to fill in Collison's role as backup PG (though he wasn't really a backup PG). Collison would improve their scoring from the PG tremendously while providing veteran leadership. Ben would be the 3rd SG off the bench most likely, but still a nice piece to have for the right team. Anderson is a filler piece, but he does have championship experience, which does mean something to a younger team.

Honestly, I doubt this deal would make the Magic agree, but I think it would perk up their ears some. The biggest issue in this trade, IMO, is Ben. They have no real need for him.
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If you replace Anderson with Moreland the chance of the magic picking up the phone will probably go up.
So it would be Ben, Collison and Moreland for Oladipo and CJ Watson. Their FO loves young athletic defenders so I can see them at least being interested.
The idea of Oladipo as our SG going forward is certainly appealing. A Rondo-Oladipo-Gay-Wcs-Cousins lineup is really talented and has a lot potential defensively. Sign a back up PG like Chalmers in the offseason and you have a well-rounded 9 man rotation with Chalmers, Belinelli, Casspi and Koufos of the bench.
The problem that I see is that our spacing will suffer and not one guy in the starting lineup can come around a screen and knock down a shot consistently. But we might be able to overcome this by bringing in Chalmers or Marco for Oladipo early.
 
Sac.Kings said:
I didn't see this before, somehow... I think the Magic would have to consider it at the very least. With Collison, you would be getting a great backup PG that has the ability to score (Orlando is 20th in PPG as a team) and with Ben you would still be getting a young prospect while also freeing up more room for Mario Hezonja and Fournier (they will be the future). I also think they need some veteran guidance, which Collison would be able to bring and Anderson with his championship experience (yes, I know, but Anderson really brings nothing else). With Payton also being 6-4, you can actually run out Collison/Payton and not be crucified (unlike us with Rondo/Collison). Obviously, Oladipo would instantly upgrade our defense from the wing spot, and he's not that bad of a shooter (you have to respect him). He's also still quite young and athletic enough to run with Rondo. He's also got some creativity to him, unlike Ben. Watson or Napier would obviously be to fill in Collison's role as backup PG (though he wasn't really a backup PG). Collison would improve their scoring from the PG tremendously while providing veteran leadership. Ben would be the 3rd SG off the bench most likely, but still a nice piece to have for the right team. Anderson is a filler piece, but he does have championship experience, which does mean something to a younger team.

Honestly, I doubt this deal would make the Magic agree, but I think it would perk up their ears some. The biggest issue in this trade, IMO, is Ben. They have no real need for him.
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Looks like Magic just acquired another guard ...

The Cleveland Cavs sent guard Joe Harris, cash considerations and the Sacramento Kings' 2017 protected second-round pick to the Magic in exchange for the Portland Trail Blazers' protected 2020 second-round pick, the team announced on Tuesday.
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http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14557501/cleveland-cavaliers-trade-joe-harris-orlando-magic
 
Only way we get Vitor is for WCS imo and I'm not for that trade, plus Evan Fournier could get massive money this off season they may not want to match meaning most likely they need both right now until they clearly decide who they prefer to build around.
 
what's with the Evan Fournier infatuation? He is nothing special to be honest. He is a inconsistent shooter who does not do much of anything else really.
 
kingsboi said:
what's with the Evan Fournier infatuation? He is nothing special to be honest. He is a inconsistent shooter who does not do much of anything else really.
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He's a very solid playmaker and he's a consistant shooter and there is a lack of decent SG's in the NBA making hi m more valuable in particular with the skillset he has. What your describing is Ben Mclemore.
 
kingsboi said:
what's with the Evan Fournier infatuation? He is nothing special to be honest. He is a inconsistent shooter who does not do much of anything else really.
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Obviously he is doing enough to have caused Oladipo to be benched, which prior to this season I wouldn't have believed possible.
 
Sac.Kings said:
Obviously he is doing enough to have caused Oladipo to be benched, which prior to this season I wouldn't have believed possible.
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All Oladipo has done prior to Scott Skiles calming him down was take a lot of bad, contested shots and brick a lot of them. Just because he is a bench player now for Orlando does not mean he won't be a starter down the line.
 
Oladipo is 23 I don't see the Magic giving him up for nothing. I agree with KingMilz WCS would be what the Magic are looking for back, not DC and filler
 
The more I think about it, the more I think Bazemore would be the perfect fit at SG. Bazemore can guard both SGs & SFs effectively which would be great next to Gay, and on top of that he is a hustler/scrapper who can stroke the 3 ball. He plays aggressive and doesn't back down.

The only problem is our cap situation next year, we won't have enough to sign both him & Rondo. I could easily see him getting anywhere from $12 mil to $16 mil. Rondo will probably be around $16 mil to $20 mil. So we're possibly looking at needing $36 mil in cap space to make that work. If Butler opts out, we don't extend a qualifying offer to Moreland, & we waive Acy & Dukan, that leaves us with ~23.9 mil in cap space. That means we would need to create $4-$12 mil in cap space (depending on their contracts). Cousins, Gay, Cauley-Stein, & Casspi aren't moving which means we're looking at moving Collison, McLemore, Belinelli, and/or Koufos. With a core of Rondo/Bazemore/Gay/Casspi/Cauley-Stein/Cousins, Collison, McLemore, & Koufos are the odd men out in my mind. Collison because the two PG lineup isn't very effective, McLemore because Bazemore is filling the 3 and D role now and a scoring/shooting SG is a better compliment (Belinelli), and Koufos because he forces Cousins out of position when they are on the floor together.

The salaries of those 3 equal $17.3 mil which means 1) we would only be able to take back ~$5.3 mil and 2) we need to find a trade partner who has enough cap space in the offseason. I think there are a couple of trading partners: Chicago & New York. We could trade Collison, McLemore, & Koufos for Nikola Mirotic OR Collison, McLemore, & Koufos for Kyle O'Quinn & Jerian Grant. I think it makes sense for both teams fit wise and they are getting more value in the deal due to us having to "pay" to dump salary.

Bulls: Get a good backup PG behind the injury prone Rose, McLemore gives them another young wing, & Koufos is a good defensive center to replace Noah
PG - Rose/Collison
SG - Butler/McLemore/Snell
SF - Dunleavy/McDermott
PF - Gibson/Portis/Bairstow
C - Gasol/Koufos/Felicio

Knicks: Strengthen PG position, add a young SG behind an aging Afflalo, and add another defensive center to give them 48 minutes of paint protection
PG - Collison/Calderon
SG - Afflalo/McLemore/Galloway
SF - Anthony/Early
PF - Porzingis/Williams
C - Lopez/Koufos

Roster (Bulls Trade):
PG - Rondo/Curry
SG - Bazemore/Belinelli/Anderson
SF - Gay/Casspi
PF - Cauley-Stein/Mirotic
C - Cousins

Roster (Knicks Trade):
PG - Rondo/Grant/Curry
SG - Bazemore/Belinelli/Anderson
SF - Gay/Casspi
PF - Cauley-Stein/O'Quinn
C - Cousins

These trades would obviously only be made after Bazemore has agreed to sign with us, but that's one way Vlade could go about making some more cap space this offseason to sign Rondo and find that defensive wing that can knock down the three.
 
I wonder how much longer we can wait to make a (financial) commitment to 21-year old Vince Hunter before someone else does. He is really talented and has great physical tools being 6'7.5'' and above average athleticism. Currently he averages 22 points on 59% shooting, 11 rebounds, 1.7 blocks and 0.9 steals in 32 minutes per game as the Center for the Bighorns. He has some perimeter skills though and I think the long tearm goal has to be to turn him into a SF or a small-ball PF. Obviously, he has to work on his shot to achive this since he has made only one 3 the whole season. But being as quick and athletic as he is, I can see him hold his own against 3s on the defensive end right away
Maybe we can call him up and see if he can give us some perimeter d?
 
Hahahah lance ****ing stephenson are you crapting me.

Pheonix will blow it up soon so offer a young player like Ben for Tucker. Tucker is an elite defender but a below average shooter from 3 (33, 34, 38) last 3 years however he is a great cutter. We can play him for 20-25mpg to lock onto the other teams scorer (SG/SF).
 
Sac.Kings said:
I still think our best shots at improving the SG spot (regardless of the players involved) lie with Kevin Martin and Victor Oladipo. Oladipo is the clear favorite to me for us (though he isn't a good shooter) and obviously very young and will be able to play on rookie contract for 2 more years. I think Oladipo is the best SG that we would have a prayer of getting. If I said this last season (when he was starting and playing well) I would have been laughed at, but now, not so much.
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Unfortunately getting Oladipo is likely still a pipe dream. Not sure of the fit anyway next to Rondo, but after he was finally re-unleashed when Payton went down, he started having big games again, and I have no idea what expendable pieces we have that could net him.
 
randymoss1881 said:
Hahahah lance ****ing stephenson are you poopooting me.

Pheonix will blow it up soon so offer a young player like Ben for Tucker. Tucker is an elite defender but a below average shooter from 3 (33, 34, 38) last 3 years however he is a great cutter. We can play him for 20-25mpg to lock onto the other teams scorer (SG/SF).
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I have liked Tucker, the DU(wildly)I aside, and have had the same thought about Phoenix's path. He'd add toughness and D. but the thing is he's really closer to a SF/PF at this point despite his height. Way too bulky for consistent SG minutes. Tips the scale at 250ish and is sometimes used in emergencies to guard Boogie.
 
Bricklayer said:
I have liked Tucker, the DU(wildly)I aside, and have had the same thought about Phoenix's path. He'd add toughness and D. but the thing is he's really closer to a SF/PF at this point despite his height. Way too bulky for consistent SG minutes. Tips the scale at 250ish and is sometimes used in emergencies to guard Boogie.
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Yep. But if we really trade Rudy and Omri becomes the starter Tucker would make a lot of sense as a back up sf.
For example, a three-team trade with the Bulls and Suns:
Rudy to the Bulls
Gibson and Tucker to the Kings
King's pick and Hinrich to the Suns
 
macadocious said:
Why are we trying to make Omri a starter? He's not a starter. He's an excellent backup SF/Stretch 4.
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I guess it comes with sucking for so long. Its not become a tradition to promote anyone that is playing well into a starter. Who really needs productive bench players these days! :rolleyes:

I find it amazing how quickly people want to get rid of any depth so that they could start someone who is performing well as a energy guy off the bench/spot starter.
 
...no way in hell do I ever want to see a starting lineup of Rondo-Gay-Cousins-Oladipo.............

Elfrid Payton-Victor Oladipo duo has struggled...not sure why anyone would think Rondo-Oladipo would be ok....
 
Bricklayer said:
I have liked Tucker, the DU(wildly)I aside, and have had the same thought about Phoenix's path. He'd add toughness and D. but the thing is he's really closer to a SF/PF at this point despite his height. Way too bulky for consistent SG minutes. Tips the scale at 250ish and is sometimes used in emergencies to guard Boogie.
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What quick SG would he struggle against he does a very nice job on Harden.
 
Bricklayer said:
I have liked Tucker, the DU(wildly)I aside, and have had the same thought about Phoenix's path. He'd add toughness and D. but the thing is he's really closer to a SF/PF at this point despite his height. Way too bulky for consistent SG minutes. Tips the scale at 250ish and is sometimes used in emergencies to guard Boogie.
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Still, he's the kind of guy we want to target and he'll very much be available for the right price. He hasn't played as much SG lately because of the crowded back-court situation and their need for productive wings, but I think you can easily put him there for some stretches. Just a versatile player and one we could find a big use for. Also signed on for next season, which would make a Ben swap really appealing.
 
macadocious said:
Oh, do tell...
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K.

-Casspi is one of the most efficient scorers in the NBA right now. At the top of the leaderboards in most categories.

-Excellent individual defensive numbers. Ranked 4th in DRPM and 7th overall

-Excellent rebounder, ranking 7th among all SF's in rebound rate

-On/Off numbers are insane too.

With him On:

ORTG-- 107.7
DRTG-- 103.3

WIth him Off:

ORTG-- 104
DRTG-- 113.1

Net rating: +13.1

So just to recap.

Top 5 in efficiency, regardless of position
One of the top defenders at SF.
One of the best SF rebounders
Team is 13 points better with him on the floor.

I'll gladly hear your counter as to why he isn't a starter
 
You can stat me to death. I know he's a great player, but on this team he is not a starter. We cannot have only one player in the starting lineup who can get shots for himself. It's really that simple. Hence, not a starter.
 
KingsFanGER said:
Smart is capable of playing both guard spots and can even guard SF's if necessary. Rozier is not your typical PG. Bradley is a SG. Celtics have Thomas and Turner, who will run the team most of the time, but they have more than enough playmaking.
They have no need for DC. And they won't give you a part of the best perimeter defense of this league for a backup PG and a washed up SF.
Adding KK wouldn't change that. Brad Stevens wants versatile players and wants his big to be able to spread the floor.

The only player, who (you can add a BIG maybe here) might be available, when we decide to overpay is Smart, because Thomas has proven, that he can defend well enough to man the starting PG spot. But I tried to think about a lot of combinations, that might get the Celtics interested to part ways with a 6'4 defensive stud, who can guard 3 positions and might come around on offense in time ( his shooting % is related to the Celtic's style of play and should go up a bit on a team not so centered around the 3 ball). I couldn't find anything on our team, that would cause enough interest.
And with Marco off the bench, Smart would be the ideal fit for us.
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If all your expecting out of Smart is to guard someone, then fine, but there are a lot of players that can guard, but can't score, and some of them can be acquired more cheaply. Smart is a terrible shooter who is only shooting 20% from the three, and around 34% overall. He can't get to the basket the same way he did in college. His poor shooting might be something you could live with if he realized that he's not a good shot, but no, he takes around 4 three point shots a game and makes less than one. He takes around 10 shots overall and makes less than three. Right now he's a one dimensional player. I didn't like Smart in college, and I still don't like him.

Trust me, if you add Smart to the team, it wouldn't take long before everyone on this forum was calling for his head for jacking up shots at critical points in the game and missing. Rondo knows he's not a great shooter, so he picks his spots, usually when the clock is running down. But Smart is brainless and will jack up a three whenever it pleases him. Don't want him on our team. Sorry I'm so late responding to this post. Been busy having cervesa's on the beach.
 
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