[NBA] Comments that don't warrant a thread (TDOS)

As long as they continue to dominate the key advertising demo (males 18-49), the money will always be there. Game 3 beat everything except the NFL (which it's never had to compete against before), had a 2:1 advantage over its closest competitor in Game 1, and enjoyed a 4:1 advantage over its closest competitor in Games 3 and 4. If the NBA can continue to average a 3:1 advantage in the key demo over everything else it goes head-to-head with, that TV money ain't going anywhere.
Tell that to the newspapers. Tell that to the radio broadcasters. Their money is now part of the TV money (I'm assuming). If viewership moves elsewhere, the money will follow. Has it? That I'm not willing to bet on. If you are watching ESPN streaming rather than over cable/satellite, you are still watching even if the numbers don't reflect it.

The disclaimer is, if there isn't a way to advertise on the different mediums and the current means of advertising is still the most effective, then you are probably right, the money will stay. But I wouldn't bet on advertisers not being able to come up with a way to get into any game.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member

Attachments

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
Tell that to the newspapers. Tell that to the radio broadcasters.
You can't compare different mediums like that. And you are also ignoring necessary context: newspapers died because the internet made it quicker and easier to access the product, and because, in a 24-hour news cycle, nobody has the patience to wait for their news to be disseminated once a day, any more. TV doesn't really have that problem, because there are still too many places in the US where the quality of the internet doesn't make streaming live TV a viable option, over broadcast or satellite.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
This is the post you made, that started all this: would you like to read it again?

Their ratings are still down like 5-10 percent, but nothing lile the NBAs numbers. The NBA finals got beat out by 90 day fiance apparently

Let me repeat that, in case you missed it:

The NBA finals got beat out by 90 day fiance apparently
And here is a screen shot from the website that you are citing as evidence:

File1.png


Please be advised that the lakers are not playing the Jazz in the NBA Finals. Also, the Finals are not being played on ESPN. Stop reading the internet wrong.
 
You can't compare different mediums like that. And you are also ignoring necessary context: newspapers died because the internet made it quicker and easier to access the product, and because, in a 24-hour news cycle, nobody has the patience to wait for their news to be disseminated once a day, any more. TV doesn't really have that problem, because there are still too many places in the US where the quality of the internet doesn't make streaming live TV a viable option, over broadcast or satellite.
But that is the point, the dynamics changed. Are they changing again and if so, to what extent? The first part is, I think so but even so have no clue to the extent.

As far as the last part, that IS changing. Up to a few years ago, we didn't have broadband and when we did get it, it was the only game in town and I am miles away from the nearest town. There are now options of unlimited with no throttling down running off of the cell towers. Dynamics are changing but I don't know to what effect.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
But that is the point, the dynamics changed. Are they changing again and if so, to what extent? The first part is, I think so but even so have no clue to the extent.

As far as the last part, that IS changing. Up to a few years ago, we didn't have broadband and when we did get it, it was the only game in town and I am miles away from the nearest town. There are now options of unlimited with no throttling down running off of the cell towers. Dynamics are changing but I don't know to what effect.
When advertisers figure out how to advertise on the internet, then they'll pay the NBA to advertise on the internet. To borrow a phrase from when I was on active duty, you're trying to nuke this out, shipmate.
 
When advertisers figure out how to advertise on the internet, then they'll pay the NBA to advertise on the internet. To borrow a phrase from when I was on active duty, you're trying to nuke this out, shipmate.
Nuke it out? Nope. There’s one thing I have repeated, I don't know. Don't even know who will control said medium. Will they take a slice of the pie? You had pretty much given an absolute, that the money wasn't going anywhere with a disclaimer of course. I am simply questioning the certainty of that absolute.

He who controls the images controls the masses.
 
https://nypost.com/2020/10/08/theres-no-salvaging-these-awful-nba-finals-ratings/

My post is still valid, and the Lakers game got beat out by a garbage tv show. Ecen Adam Silver has come out and said something about it.

Have no comment on your whack source either huh? NBA Finals was no where in sight and thats your own source not mine.

"yOuRe DoInG tHe InTeRnEt WrOnG"

A semantics game can always be outplayed by facts. Ratings are lower than they ever have been, less fans are watching. Who cares about marketing? Commercials are the norm and will always be a part of cable or free live streaming services

RATINGS ARE LOW AND THE NBA GOT BEAT OUT BY TLC SHOWS
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
Nuke it out? Nope. There’s one thing I have repeated, I don't know. Don't even know who will control said medium. Will they take a slice of the pie? You had pretty much given an absolute, that the money wasn't going anywhere with a disclaimer of course. I am simply questioning the certainty of that absolute.

He who controls the images controls the masses.
You have indeed consistently stated that you "don't know." You're also, in my opinion, doing the most to posit, "But, what if, though?", and I'm not sure what your endgame is?
 
Scanning through the thread, I'll offer this. As a die hard sports junkie, crap went off the rails political with my MLS team that I hold season tickets to last year, it turned me off in a major way, I was absolutely livid, and stuck holding tickets I couldn't resell, but I still renewed. (though after COVID I reduced from 4 to 2 tickets for next season)

I've watched less sports than ever this year, largely because most of these seasons have felt like they are forced conclusions to seasons suspended unnaturally. NHL it sure felt like the teams with momentum in March lost it by June. NBA was whackadoodle and they created a end of season close where a team went on a 9-0 tear and yet didn't advance.

I'm watching a bit of NFL though less than normal, because it feels like a full season but I didn't watch my team this week after our QB tested positive for COVID. I've tuned out all college sports right now.

It's the virus and a life priority issue. While I can't speak for everyone, I was the guy who watched live sports 5 days a week year round who is now maybe watching once a week. I could give f-all about people having opinions during a period it feels like the world is falling apart.

eta: my interest was so low I cancelled subscription live tv because of a price increase.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
The New York Post? Who's tagline ought to be, "We occasionally print in English"? I'm supposed to take what they have to say seriously?
Have no comment on your whack source either huh? NBA Finals was no where in sight and thats your own source not mine.
What do you mean, no comment? I already commented: my comment was, The Finals ratings are not on that list, because that specific list shows only shows the cable ratings, and the Finals are not broadcast on cable. You didn't read the whole page. Which is weird, because you would have had to actually scroll past the part where the NBA Finals ratings were, in order to get to the part that you took a screen shot of. Stop reading the internet wrong.

"yOuRe DoInG tHe InTeRnEt WrOnG"

A semantics game can always be outplayed by facts. Ratings are lower than they ever have been, less fans are watching. Who cares about marketing? Commercials are the norm and will always be a part of cable or free live streaming services

RATINGS ARE LOW AND THE NBA GOT BEAT OUT BY TLC SHOWS
Since you couldn't be bothered, I did your homework for you: in the sixty days since the restart, the NBA has only been beat in the cable ratings seven times. They were:
  • Monday, Aug. 3 (90-day) (Feature prime-time game: lakers/Jazz)
  • Tuesday, Aug. 11 (Fox News) (Feature prime-time game: Pelicans/Kings)
  • Wednesday, Aug. 12 (RHOBH) (Feature prime-time game: Clippers/Nuggets)
  • Wednesday, Aug. 19 (DNC) (Feature prime-time game: Mavericks/Clippers Game 2)
  • Sunday, Aug. 23 (90-day) (Feature prime-time game: Nuggets/Jazz)
  • Sunday, Aug. 30 (90-day) (Feature prime-time game: Nuggets/Jazz)
  • Thursday, Sept. 17 (Football double-header) (Feature prime-time game: Heat/Celtics)

So, the NBA lost in the ratings seven times (twice, ironically, to politics), and either the Nuggets or the Jazz (or both) were involved in four of them. Maybe the solution is as simple as to stop featuring the Nuggets and the Jazz?
 
Last edited:

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
Fortunately for the NBA, the 2020 Finals don't have to go head-to-head against the 2019 Finals. But, what's funny is how these sites all have the nuance that your argument lacks. They all recognize the myriad factors that have contributed to the ratings, whereas your argument has consisted of pointing at the ratings, and going, "Failing NBA. Sad. Hurr durr."

EDIT - And let me repeat, once again, for the record, that I never said that the NBA ratings weren't down. If you hadn't lied and said that the Finals had lost to 90-day Fiancé, we wouldn't be here.
 
You have indeed consistently stated that you "don't know." You're also, in my opinion, doing the most to posit, "But, what if, though?", and I'm not sure what your endgame is?
Simple discussion. The NBA business plans appear to assume increasing revenue streams. A changing market is a threat. I know on a few shows I would rather pay a small fee than lose eight minutes in a thirty minute slot.

Sort of off topic but in the early eighties where magazines were the rage, despite the racks of selections, around twenty conglomerates controlled the great majority. Since then, how few now controls the sources? That is also a potential problem.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
Simple discussion. The NBA business plans appear to assume increasing revenue streams. A changing market is a threat. I know on a few shows I would rather pay a small fee than lose eight minutes in a thirty minute slot.
I guess I simply don't see the point of the discussion, then. I think that anybody concerned about the future of the NBA, or who thinks that it's something worthy of discussion, is underestimating the NBA's ability to adapt to changes in technology. But I guess only time will tell. It's not interesting speculation to me, but your mileage obviously varies.
 
I guess I simply don't see the point of the discussion, then. I think that anybody concerned about the future of the NBA, or who thinks that it's something worthy of discussion, is underestimating the NBA's ability to adapt to changes in technology. But I guess only time will tell. It's not interesting speculation to me, but your mileage obviously varies.
You are right, my interest is definitely different than yours. During the relocation saga, I was more interested/entertained by what was happening off the court than on it. Business elite vs Political elite. But that is in the past and talked to death.

I am curious if I will go back watching or will other things (including entertainment) continue to take my focus. Like someone binge drinking, will sometimes enjoy binge watching. Time will tell.
 
Great podcast by Grant, a lot of people are tired of the politics and the ratings show the result of woke culture in sports


My original post. Your argument is based off of something I heard off the news and my use of "apparently" is not concrete. If im wrong, im wrong about that one minute detail.

Youve been trying to prove me wrong when ive constantly shown you that ratings are down, then you wanted to keep playing hopscotch with topics trying to validate your point. While my WHOLE point is that ratings are down. Im wrong about the 90 day fiance thing? Cool brah, i was wrong. But that wasnt my main point whatsoever and you want to keep playing semantics.

When I bring up that NBA finals are still at an all time low, you want to skip to some other invaliidities of my sources. Dont like NY Times, okay cool. Pick one of the other several sources I provided.

I dont know what your deal is, but whatever it is I hope your life gets easier. Seems like just because youre a staff member you have this special pedastal you have to defend. Youre human bro and you can midtakes as I do.
 
As for politics, there's a certain threshold. Where that threshold is, that's for each person to decide.
.
Im sure political issues in sports has caused some viewers to turn off their TVs but it pales in comparison to the real reason ratings are down. Attention span. Our culture has moved is such a way that we can’t sit through 10 minutes of something without browsing YouTube and ten other sites at the same time. People skip the games and just watch 2 minute clips of highlights at their leisure.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
Im sure political issues in sports has caused some viewers to turn off their TVs but it pales in comparison to the real reason ratings are down. Attention span. Our culture has moved is such a way that we can’t sit through 10 minutes of something without browsing YouTube and ten other sites at the same time. People skip the games and just watch 2 minute clips of highlights at their leisure.
There certainly is something to be said about NBA basketball being the one major sport that requires active viewing rather than MLB and the NFL, where "all the good stuff" is so spaced out and infrequent that you can largely fiddle around on twitter for most of the game without missing everything. The NBA's problem is that it's so high paced (and so over-broadcast) that it becomes hard to just put on for a couple of hours in the background while doing other reallife stuff.

I know personally (and this is also largely thanks to my schedule as an ex-pat leading to sports mostly airing during my workday) I find myself having to turn off whatever random NBA game is on my TV because it's too distracting/hard to get stuff done while I can largely focus on work with an NFL game in the background and occasionally turn to watch when something exciting happens.

In it's drive to make games so exciting, high-paced, easier to watch, and high scoring, it feels like the league has somehow managed to distance itself from any of these things.

Also the bubble has been going on for like three months now and I sorta tuned out mid-September.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
My original post. Your argument is based off of something I heard off the news and my use of "apparently" is not concrete. If im wrong, im wrong about that one minute detail.
I would classify confusing a throwaway seeding game for the NBA Finals as more than a "minute" detail, especially when you kept doubling and tripling down on it. But you would probably just cry "Semantics!" again, so whatever.

Youve been trying to prove me wrong...
I did prove you wrong. You just don't care that I proved you wrong, because you consider the only part of your statement that I was actually arguing against to be a "minute detail."

... when ive constantly shown you that ratings are down...
Which I've never disputed. I never said that ratings weren't down. What EYE said was that the ratings being down isn't the big deal you think it is.

When I bring up that NBA finals are still at an all time low, you want to skip to some other invaliidities of my sources. Dont like NY Times, okay cool. Pick one of the other several sources I provided.
I'm fine with most of your sources because, again, I've never disputed the ratings being down. What I dispute is your reductive and specious claims about why the ratings are down. I don't have a problem with most of your sources, because most of your sources have approached the subject with about a hundred times more thought, perspective and nuance than you have.

Having said that, I was quasi-facetious when I said it before, but I was still being half-serious: the NBA lost to 90-day Fiancé three times, and all three times the featured prime time game involved the Utah Jazz. So... for all we know, the solution might really be as simple as for the NBA to stop featuring Jazz games?

Seems like just because youre a staff member you have this special pedastal you have to defend.
What "pedastal" do you think I'm defending?

Youre human bro and you can midtakes as I do.
This is a set-up, right? 'Cause it feels like a set-up.

Great podcast by Grant, a lot of people are tired of the politics and the ratings show the result of woke culture in sports
Speaking of admitting to mistakes, I need to apologize to @whozit, because I expended a considerable amount of energy arguing with them that tautologies didn't need to be stated, and that it didn't have to be explained that there have been multiple reasons for the ratings decline, because we're all intelligent enough to understand that, without being told. And yet, some people are determined to prove that, indeed, we are not all intelligent enough to understand that, without being told.
 
I’m sure the NBA owners are seeing profits shrink. Caused by empty arenas and the reduced number of games. The Bubble salvaged what revenue it could. Covid was the primary cause of the loss of NBA profits.

Any measure of the other causes of the profit loss are going to be hard to gauge. This makes it hard to argue a side in this debate.