Maloofs criticize Reggie
- Thread starter BMiller52
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Maybe not so much. Perhaps it's a shot with regards to the direction that Theus wants to take in the draft in comparison with Petrie's version.
The article references what style of play the Maloofs want in Sacto. Sounds like what they had with Adelman. Go figure.
The article references what style of play the Maloofs want in Sacto. Sounds like what they had with Adelman. Go figure.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Not surprising to me.
Would have been surprising if you told me that at the beginning of last year, but reading all the quotes, and non-quotes down the back half of the eyar a number of things became evident:
1) Geoff is cool on Reggie. Shaw was his guy, and there are some fundamental philosophical differences (and on that front I am actually on Reggie's side)
2) Reggie is challenging Geoff. He has made repeated comments about the sort of players Geoff likes vs. the sort of players he (Reggie) likes, and sort of arrogantly implied that he knew better and Geoff should listen to him.
3)The Maloofs still have manlove for Geoff. Like Whiz before him, Geoff is part of the family.
4) Geoff, and here is the surprising one, the Maloofs as well, wanted to see the kids play down the stretch. As did I and many if not most Kings fans. Reggie, in his arrogance, I think essentially defied his bosses. That's not a great way to stay employed. The Maloofs repeatedly mentioned minutes for Shelden and Douby in particular.
5) Geoff and the Maloofs also are responsible for publickly annointing Kevin as Golden Boy. When Reggie repeatedly insulted or challenged Kevin, I think that hurt him in their eyes. There is a lot of wrong with that whole scenario. Reggie was wrong to do put down Kevin (and most of his guys). The Maloofs were wrong in the annointment. And now there is a bit of an icky player wiht more power than the coach thing going on -- whether Kevin knows it or not, if he squirmed and created enough fuss, I think he could actually get Reggie fired on his behalf. Reggie is either too dumb or too cocky to recognize that. And hopefully Kevin is above such cancerous behavior. But there is no doubt in my mind at least which party would be favored by the powers that be if a showdown erupted.
6) A few other tidbits:
-- Geoff has been guarded in his comments about Shelden and Beno. I'm not sure he really likes either that much (which surprised me in Beno's case).
--Reggie really has no use for Shelden.
-- But Reggie really liked Beno I think.
--No idea how the Maloofs feel about Beno, but they obviously wanted to see Shelden play.
-- Both the Maloofs and Geoff wanted to see Douby play.
-- Reggie does not see a position for Douby as an undersized non-PG.
-- Geoff moderately, but the Maloofs in particular really liked Spencer.
-- Theus on the other hand has reservations about him (never been entirely clear why, but he keeps using the word "finesse" as a synonym for soft).
CruzDude
Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
Added to this is the lack of any head coaching experience among the assistant coaches Reggie has on his staff. That would have added a bit of "reality check" to the heady approach Reggie seems to put forth. But if you want to be the King you can't have any Princes close by who know more than you. 
A rookie can not challenge his bosses especially when the bosses have a track record in the NBA. This is Reggie's final year of his contract with a team option for the following year. If he does not read the "hand writing on the wall" or thinks he knows better, could be a very dicey summer and not bode well for the Kings going into training camp.
One way or the other I think the team gets built around Kevin or Reggie's leash gets really short really quick.
A rookie can not challenge his bosses especially when the bosses have a track record in the NBA. This is Reggie's final year of his contract with a team option for the following year. If he does not read the "hand writing on the wall" or thinks he knows better, could be a very dicey summer and not bode well for the Kings going into training camp.
One way or the other I think the team gets built around Kevin or Reggie's leash gets really short really quick.
Showtime
Starter
If Reggie doesn't want Beno back, then I have nothing else to add other than: I don't know how a coach in his situation, who has gotten that kind of production out of a PG who had a very short time to get acclimated to his role on a new team, isn't high on getting that player a new contract.
quick dog
Starter
After all these years, I now believe that Petrie (and Kevin Martin) are overrated. Petrie seems to be very fond of "soft shooters". If you look at the final four teams in the NBA playoffs, are there any "soft" shooters still on the court? I never saw Petrie play. Was he a softy?
I am also not sure that the Maloofs (all of them) have been very helpful in regard to managing the Kings and selecting coaches and players over the past four years. It seems as though the Kings organization lacks a dominant leader because the Maloofs play favorites and try to coach the team from the stands. The "man behind the man" sort of thing.
Why hire a new coach that is expected to be dynamic and forceful, then neuter him on television?
I am also not sure that the Maloofs (all of them) have been very helpful in regard to managing the Kings and selecting coaches and players over the past four years. It seems as though the Kings organization lacks a dominant leader because the Maloofs play favorites and try to coach the team from the stands. The "man behind the man" sort of thing.
Why hire a new coach that is expected to be dynamic and forceful, then neuter him on television?
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Well I think there are several players in Kevin's class left -- Manu in San Antonio, Rip in Detroit, and Allen in Boston. And Vlad Rad is of course a soft shooter of a different type (more poor man's Peja), but he is just a role player so does not really matter.
Thing is that Manu is so much more than just that, and scraps (and flops) all over the court, Rip is not the scorer Kevin is, but has turned himself into a well rounder player, and its been precisely Ray Allen's faltering as the playoff noose has tightened that has been so problematic for Boston. Actually think the biggest lesson lies in the Spurs sereis where you watch Kobe -- on eof the few guys in the league to shoot more FTs than Kevin -- just unable to get to the line at all. And Kobe generally doesn't cheat and flop his way to the line either. He just attacks. He's good enough to do it without the FTs, but it is an object lesson about the perils of a player relying on the refs rather than his own skill. Gets deep into the playoffs, games get rougher, refs swallow their whistles, if you are counting them calling every flop a chunk of your game can disappear without warning.
I think the title of this thread is a bit misleading, as it wasn't the focal point of Voisin's article at all.
The piece was primarily a commentary on the Maloof's extension of Geoff Petrie's contract. I found this part to be pretty telling:
We can argue about Petrie and his effectiveness/mistakes all we like, but to me it seems clear the Maloofs still want him around. And I, quite frankly, find that reassuring, along with the comment about "tinkering has its limits." This could be the year when Petrie is allowed free reign to once again do what HE thinks is best for the team.
The piece was primarily a commentary on the Maloof's extension of Geoff Petrie's contract. I found this part to be pretty telling:
We can argue about Petrie and his effectiveness/mistakes all we like, but to me it seems clear the Maloofs still want him around. And I, quite frankly, find that reassuring, along with the comment about "tinkering has its limits." This could be the year when Petrie is allowed free reign to once again do what HE thinks is best for the team.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I agree that Shaw was probably Geoff's guy. I think the Maloff's tend to fall in love with people that are chrismatic and good for PR. Thus Musselman and now Reggie. I'm not taking anything away from Reggie, who did an OK job in his first year. So yes, there is a philosophical difference between Reggie and Geoff. And I can tell you who the winner is going to be if Reggie doesn't at least make some effort to conform.
As far as Geoff being guarded in his comment about Shelden and Beno. Geoff is guarded in his comments about everything. He never wants to take back anything he said. He's the only guy I know, that can do a one hour talk show and tell you absolutely nothing you didn't already know.
Once again, I think Reggie rubs Geoff the wrong way with his outspoken manner, which constantly gets him into trouble. One of the reasons that Geoff and Addleman got along so well was that Addleman, who seldom said anything, never said anything that he had to take back.
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HighFlyingMonkey
Starter
Point is that all of this was avoidable. But the Maloofs had to get their media-friendly man. There is a disconnect somewhere between Reggie and Petrie, and until they're on the same page (or one of them is gone), then we can not move forward.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
Um, they had a choice between Shaw and Theus, they didn't have a choice about Webber's knee blowing out. Much better for the coach to be the choice of the GM rather than the owners, because the owners don't make the basketball decision for the most part.
Hindsight is always 20-20. We don't know all the details of the decision to select Reggie Theus and we probably never will. It's real easy for us to sit here and judge how the Maloofs should run THEIR BUSINESS but, bottom line, it is their business. We don't know for a certainty that any of us in the same circumstance would do anything different.
Didn't Supersonic management forced Carlesimo to play Jeff Green over Wally? Maloofs need to force Theus to play Douby in particular. Perhaps they need to sit Theus down and say play the young guys, bench the vets; play for the future and not to win. That way, they can't fire Theus for sucking. Wonder how Artest will handle being benched.
kennadog
Dog On It!
They can fire Theus for breathing, if they want to. You want coaches who really want to win, but then it's hard to tell them not to use all the resources they have to get wins. We need to trade away guys that probably should not be benched to make room for the younger guys that need to play more. Then Reggie wouldn't really have to make that decision. Will we be worse? Probably, for awhile.
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CruzDude
Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
I find it interesting in all this that Chuck Persons name has come up several times this week online and on ESPN related to head coaching openings. Seems others may see in him some real coaching qualities. He does do quite a bit of talking in huddles from what I see on Direct TV. Wonder where he fits in the Reggie equation? Hmmm.
quick dog
Starter
If any of the young Kings players were candidates for true greatness, of the caliber of Kobe, Duncan, or LeBron, would it not be pretty obvious by now. By playing lesser players major minutes, win or lose, is like trying to make chicken soup from that other commodity. It would be wishful thinking.
How many Kings players have the potential to be great? Spencer? Martin? The Kings are a squad of role players with a 2008 NBA lottery pick of 12. How is Reggie responsible for the current situation? Should the Kings have have "taken dives" in 20 games this season to gain a nice lottery position? Illegal, immoral, pragmatic, or not, who would have bought tickets to see the Kings play?
How many Kings players have the potential to be great? Spencer? Martin? The Kings are a squad of role players with a 2008 NBA lottery pick of 12. How is Reggie responsible for the current situation? Should the Kings have have "taken dives" in 20 games this season to gain a nice lottery position? Illegal, immoral, pragmatic, or not, who would have bought tickets to see the Kings play?
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Not really important who comes to those last 20 games. As Orlando, Cleveland, Boston, New Orleans, Portalnd etc. etc. etc. show, the fans WILL come back if you put a winner on the floor. You put a title contender led by a young stud on the floor, the house will be packed, and it will be loud. So whatever you have to do to get there. You aren't worried about 20 games of fans.
We were near the bottom of the league in attendance this year, and wiht another season ticket die off, it promises to get even worse/more embarrassing. Whatever it takes. There aren't that many fans to lose at this point, and far far mroe who come streaming back if you do what is necessary to turn that corner.
PurpleHaze
All-Star
Reggie is very close to Chuck and not just because they played against each other in the NBA. Coach Theus and The Rifleman spent many long hours commiserating, looking at film late-late into wee hours last season - probably more than any of his other assistants. Also, because Chuck Person was an assistant at Indiana when Ron Artest was there those two know each other quite well and Chuck can maybe get Ron's ear better than most at times.
quick dog
Starter
I suppose that if an NBA team (owners and managers) were to decide on building for the future at all cost, then the ethical way would be to sell or trade all of the team's role players for future NBA draft picks.
NBA history clearly demonstrates that teams only win NBA championships with "super star" players. Kobe Bryant proved that yet again last night. Following that apparent long-standing NBA dynamic, the only way to win the whole enchalada is to spend very large sums of money to purchase star players, and support that action by trading the entire journeyman squad. There appears to be no greater perogative that acquiring a dominant "super star".
You know, like Memphis, Phoenix, and Dallas did.
NBA history clearly demonstrates that teams only win NBA championships with "super star" players. Kobe Bryant proved that yet again last night. Following that apparent long-standing NBA dynamic, the only way to win the whole enchalada is to spend very large sums of money to purchase star players, and support that action by trading the entire journeyman squad. There appears to be no greater perogative that acquiring a dominant "super star".
You know, like Memphis, Phoenix, and Dallas did.
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