Let's Decide on THE Big.
- Thread starter ForlornKing
- Start date
AleksandarN
Starter
Is there anyway of prying DArko from the MAgic?
M
MiniMe
Guest
I know KG must be dying to play in Sacramento 
so
Sacramento Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Brad Miller
7-0 C from Purdue
15.1 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 4.9 apg in 36.9 minutes
Bonzi Wells
6-5 SG from Ball State
14.6 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 3.1 apg in 34.4 minutes
Shareef Abdur-Rahim
6-9 PF from California
13.4 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 2.6 apg in 29.9 minutes
Francisco Garcia
6-7 SF from Louisville
6.3 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 1.6 apg in 21.6 minutes
Incoming
Kevin Garnett
6-11 PF from Farragut Academy (HS)
21.6 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 4.3 apg in 39.3 minutes
Trenton Hassell
6-5 SG from Austin Peay
9.5 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 2.5 apg in 33.8 minutes
Change in team outlook: -18.3 ppg, -9.4 rpg, and -5.4 apg.
Minnesota Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Kevin Garnett
6-11 PF from Farragut Academy (HS)
21.6 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 4.3 apg in 39.3 minutes
Trenton Hassell
6-5 SG from Austin Peay
9.5 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 2.5 apg in 33.8 minutes
Incoming
Brad Miller
7-0 C from Purdue
15.1 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 4.9 apg in 36.9 minutes
Bonzi Wells
6-5 SG from Ball State
14.6 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 3.1 apg in 34.4 minutes
Shareef Abdur-Rahim
6-9 PF from California
13.4 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 2.6 apg in 29.9 minutes
Francisco Garcia
6-7 SF from Louisville
6.3 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 1.6 apg in 21.6 minutes
Change in team outlook: +18.3 ppg, +9.4 rpg, and +5.4 apg.
Successful Scenario
Due to Sacramento and Minnesota being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Sacramento and Minnesota had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
On top of that we can throw in a first round draft pick...
KG would be in a familiar environment similar to when he was playing with Cassell. Except this time its Bibby to KG and KG to bibby.
KG plays better when he has a PG on his team that can shoot and Bibby can do just that. i don\'t remember Minni having much problem with Ervin Johnson at their center position so i suppose we can just sign a decent C during the offseason.
New Lineup would be:
C: Potapenko/Sampson or free agent we sign over offseason
PF: KG/KT/Sampson
SF: Artest/Martin/Monia
SG: Martin/Hassell
PG: Bibby/Hart
Few changes must be made in the offseason including a backup PG. Hassell can switch over to SG and SF. A center or two is also important and must be done via trade or free agency.
so Sacramento Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Brad Miller
7-0 C from Purdue
15.1 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 4.9 apg in 36.9 minutes
Bonzi Wells
6-5 SG from Ball State
14.6 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 3.1 apg in 34.4 minutes
Shareef Abdur-Rahim
6-9 PF from California
13.4 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 2.6 apg in 29.9 minutes
Francisco Garcia
6-7 SF from Louisville
6.3 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 1.6 apg in 21.6 minutes
Incoming
Kevin Garnett
6-11 PF from Farragut Academy (HS)
21.6 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 4.3 apg in 39.3 minutes
Trenton Hassell
6-5 SG from Austin Peay
9.5 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 2.5 apg in 33.8 minutes
Change in team outlook: -18.3 ppg, -9.4 rpg, and -5.4 apg.
Minnesota Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Kevin Garnett
6-11 PF from Farragut Academy (HS)
21.6 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 4.3 apg in 39.3 minutes
Trenton Hassell
6-5 SG from Austin Peay
9.5 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 2.5 apg in 33.8 minutes
Incoming
Brad Miller
7-0 C from Purdue
15.1 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 4.9 apg in 36.9 minutes
Bonzi Wells
6-5 SG from Ball State
14.6 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 3.1 apg in 34.4 minutes
Shareef Abdur-Rahim
6-9 PF from California
13.4 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 2.6 apg in 29.9 minutes
Francisco Garcia
6-7 SF from Louisville
6.3 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 1.6 apg in 21.6 minutes
Change in team outlook: +18.3 ppg, +9.4 rpg, and +5.4 apg.
Successful Scenario
Due to Sacramento and Minnesota being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Sacramento and Minnesota had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
On top of that we can throw in a first round draft pick...
KG would be in a familiar environment similar to when he was playing with Cassell. Except this time its Bibby to KG and KG to bibby.
KG plays better when he has a PG on his team that can shoot and Bibby can do just that. i don\'t remember Minni having much problem with Ervin Johnson at their center position so i suppose we can just sign a decent C during the offseason. New Lineup would be:
C: Potapenko/Sampson or free agent we sign over offseason
PF: KG/KT/Sampson
SF: Artest/Martin/Monia
SG: Martin/Hassell
PG: Bibby/Hart
Few changes must be made in the offseason including a backup PG. Hassell can switch over to SG and SF. A center or two is also important and must be done via trade or free agency.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
MiniMe said:I know KG must be dying to play in Sacramento
Sacramento Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Brad Miller
7-0 C from Purdue
15.1 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 4.9 apg in 36.9 minutes
Bonzi Wells
6-5 SG from Ball State
14.6 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 3.1 apg in 34.4 minutes
Shareef Abdur-Rahim
6-9 PF from California
13.4 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 2.6 apg in 29.9 minutes
Francisco Garcia
6-7 SF from Louisville
6.3 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 1.6 apg in 21.6 minutes
Incoming
Kevin Garnett
6-11 PF from Farragut Academy (HS)
21.6 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 4.3 apg in 39.3 minutes
Trenton Hassell
6-5 SG from Austin Peay
9.5 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 2.5 apg in 33.8 minutes
Change in team outlook: -18.3 ppg, -9.4 rpg, and -5.4 apg.
Minnesota Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Kevin Garnett
6-11 PF from Farragut Academy (HS)
21.6 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 4.3 apg in 39.3 minutes
Trenton Hassell
6-5 SG from Austin Peay
9.5 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 2.5 apg in 33.8 minutes
Incoming
Brad Miller
7-0 C from Purdue
15.1 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 4.9 apg in 36.9 minutes
Bonzi Wells
6-5 SG from Ball State
14.6 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 3.1 apg in 34.4 minutes
Shareef Abdur-Rahim
6-9 PF from California
13.4 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 2.6 apg in 29.9 minutes
Francisco Garcia
6-7 SF from Louisville
6.3 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 1.6 apg in 21.6 minutes
Change in team outlook: +18.3 ppg, +9.4 rpg, and +5.4 apg.
Successful Scenario
Due to Sacramento and Minnesota being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Sacramento and Minnesota had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
On top of that we can throw in a first round draft pick...
KG would be in a familiar environment similar to when he was playing with Cassell. Except this time its Bibby to KG and KG to bibby.
New Lineup would be:
C: Potapenko/Sampson or free agent we sign over offseason
PF: KG/KT/Sampson
SF: Artest/Martin/Monia
SG: Martin/Hassell
PG: Bibby/Hart
Few changes must be made in the offseason including a backup PG. Hassell can switch over to SG and SF. A center or two is also important and must be done via trade or free agency.
Holy crap thats a lot to give up for anyone!
The one amazing thing about that though is that it doesn't totally destroy our team. That illustrates the kind of depth we possess!
I know that this thread is more about guys that already play in the League but speaking about the draft two guys I would consider very seriously: Josh Boone(UConn, junior) and Justin Williams(Wyoming, senior). Both rebounders(don't look at Boone's numbers: he plays alongside Armstrong and Gay and UConn also have two very good rebounders coming off the bench; Williams is probably top-5 rebounder among NBA prospects statistically despite often leaving his position to go blocking shots) and shot-blockers(Williams is second in the nation with 5.3bpg despite playing half the season with ankle sprain before which he averaged 6bpg and he doesn't even go after every shot just altering and affecting many attempts; Boone's numbers are lower than they should be because Hilton camps in the paint and Josh often drifts to perimeter to defend forwards) and along with very good stats they are both very good man-to-man(Williams struggles against really big centers - NBA prospect Yemi Nicholson(260lbs) fouled him out pretty easily) and quick defending pick-n-roll. Of course they will be rookies and right now do not posess true center size(Boone - 235-240, Williams - 225-230). They are both limited offensively(though Josh played limited role in UConn offense and can have some upside) but Josh is pretty good passer.
nbrans
All-Star
Not sure if anyone saw the Kansas game, but LaMarcus Aldridge is the real deal, and one of the very few two-way big man in this draft. Long arms, fantastic hook shot, good rebounding/shotblocking instincts. If the Kings don't make it into the top 3 I'd like to see them trade up to get him.
Also, Tyrus Thomas has been putting up sick numbers for LSU. Haven't seen him play though.
I think it's a tad unrealistic to hope for the Kings getting a proven interior presence through a trade, so the title of this thread is a little beside the point in my opinion. There are too few good interior defenders/rebounders and there's a reason the ones that are forces inside are hot commodities -- you can count the number of impact interior players in the league on one hand.
If the Kings are going to get one of these players it's probably going to be through development, either by signing a young big man or through the draft. The good news is that there are quite a few big men with potential available in free agency in the offseason, such as Nene, Mario Kasun and DJ Mbenga, who could come cheap and develop into strong interior players.
Also, Tyrus Thomas has been putting up sick numbers for LSU. Haven't seen him play though.
I think it's a tad unrealistic to hope for the Kings getting a proven interior presence through a trade, so the title of this thread is a little beside the point in my opinion. There are too few good interior defenders/rebounders and there's a reason the ones that are forces inside are hot commodities -- you can count the number of impact interior players in the league on one hand.
If the Kings are going to get one of these players it's probably going to be through development, either by signing a young big man or through the draft. The good news is that there are quite a few big men with potential available in free agency in the offseason, such as Nene, Mario Kasun and DJ Mbenga, who could come cheap and develop into strong interior players.
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playmaker0017
Guest
Even though I'm a huge Reef fan - I think the person to move would be Miller.
Why?
It's easier to find a defensive center that can match his opponents output and play solid team defense than it is to find a PF capable of doing that.
Just my take.
I'd rather two guys in the paint that at least TRY to play defense than one guy trying to make up for the other.
Both Thomas and Reef at least give effort defensively. Thomas is just too small to make an impact - but he tries. Miller is a matador and a pushover defensively ...
He may bring the ability to stand in the high post and pass or hit a completely uncovered shot ... but I just don't think that skill set outweighs his lack of anything defensively.
In my mind, if you make a move for a purely defensive PF that rebounds ... the team has negative post impact. Teams just can't sustain themselves without the easy buckets from the post.
The PFs that dominate offensively/defensively aren't attainable.
Why?
It's easier to find a defensive center that can match his opponents output and play solid team defense than it is to find a PF capable of doing that.
Just my take.
I'd rather two guys in the paint that at least TRY to play defense than one guy trying to make up for the other.
Both Thomas and Reef at least give effort defensively. Thomas is just too small to make an impact - but he tries. Miller is a matador and a pushover defensively ...
He may bring the ability to stand in the high post and pass or hit a completely uncovered shot ... but I just don't think that skill set outweighs his lack of anything defensively.
In my mind, if you make a move for a purely defensive PF that rebounds ... the team has negative post impact. Teams just can't sustain themselves without the easy buckets from the post.
The PFs that dominate offensively/defensively aren't attainable.
nbrans
All-Star
playmaker0017 said:
Before the Artest trade I would have been with you, playmaker, but I think bringing in Artest changes the equation somewhat. Without Peja the Kings badly need Miller's ability to spread the floor with his outside shooting, and I think he's the right compliment to Artest's inside game. Miller obviously works well with Bibby with that two-man game. If you move Miller you lose some of Bibby's production and teams will be even more inclined to stack the middle with their defense and dare the Kings to shoot from outside.
If the Kings move Bibby and if Martin keeps developing as an outside shooter maybe the Kings can afford to move Miller (or if the Kings are giving up Miller for someone who can shoot outside like KG). But Miller's ability to draw the opposing team's center out of the post is crucial to letting smalls like Artest and Bonzi operate freely from the block. His jump shot is valuable even when he's not shooting it because they have to pay attention to him.
As much as I value SAR and to a lesser extent Thomas, I recognize the need to improve that spot on the boards and defensively. The Kings need someone in the power forward slot who can mask Miller's deficiencies. SAR, while a competent one on one defender who gives great effort, doesn't have the physical tools to be that player.
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playmaker0017
Guest
nbrans said:
See - I still go back to this:
I think Adelman is the one that needs to go. Not Reef, not Miller. But, rather Adelman.
With Artest, budding Martin and a PG that at least TRIES on defense ... I think the "need" for a defensive big that dominates goes away a lot. Our biggest problem is the lack of commitment to defense. I've seen Bibby walk down the court on defense or Miller jump out of the way. It's sad. That's coaching.
We've got enough talent offensively to put up points. What we need is a coach that sticks to fundamentals and defense. Someone not afraid to exert a bit of control on this team.
The problem is that for the most part - the center doesn't leave the post ... and with a defensive PF ... the PF will now clog the lane.
It's not that Miller and Bibby CAN'T play defense, in my opinion. It's that they DON'T play defense.
nbrans
All-Star
playmaker0017 said:
In the last 10 games defense hasn't really been the problem when the Kings have struggled. The defense has been pretty good, as has the rebounding. Offense has been the problem. Things changed when Artest arrived, and I think people take offense for granted around here. Inserting a nonscoring roleplayer into a lineup that is struggling to score is a risky proposition, particularly when you're removing someone who not only scores 15 ppg but opens up the floor for people to operate inside.
Sure, removing Miller and inserting a defensive specialist will improve the defense, but at what cost to the offense? Is a defensive specialist going to stop more points than Miller creates, both with his own scoring and the opportunities he creates for others?
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playmaker0017
Guest
nbrans said:
Of course, my cynicism peaks up and I have to ask:
Was it the level of competition or our defense or some combination thereof that made us look good defensively?
It's not like we've been playing the creme de la creme.
Of course, I have to ask how much of that is Adelman's fault.
His offensive scheme is NOT meant for this type of team. We've become traditional. We have no post presence at all right now. Artest may or may not be a prime post option when he's 100%, but right now he's not there.
When I watch our offense, it's like we have ONE option. If that option can't find any room, the next option is launch pure garbage. We do a lot of stand around and place right thumb firmly into rear end. That, again, is coaching.
I think Miller's passing is EXTREMELY overrated. Can he pass well for a center? Sure. Is he "creating" opportunities for others? No.
He's not opening up the lane or causing defenders to switch up on him. He stands there with the ball for 10 seconds and then makes a pass .... he's not "creating" for anyone. Especially anyone in the post.
It's not like you remove Miller and we become a 70PPG team. There's too much talent. The scoring will be picked up elsewhere. It's just different people will be touching the ball.
Of course, that's not to say Rahim's the answer. I think he COULD be a major piece since he's a solid defender and one of the most efficient PF scorers per shot. But, I just think that Reef (or a PF like Reef) gives the team more options at other positions. Brad Miller forces the team to take a player that can cover his weaknesses. I just don't think he brings enough to "build" around him, which is essentially what you'd have to do.
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MrBiggs
Guest
Entity said:
1.4 blocks in the d-league. That equates to what? Like about .6 blocks per 48 minutes in the NBA?
Tell that to Chris Andersen.MrBiggs said:
SacKings4Life21
Bench
WE need All stars
Ok I have been reading all of these discussions on brining in Pryz, Chandler, griffin... and honestly i have reserched that to and liked it. but we need to realize 1 huge problem! What team has won a championship ever! without a super star. I am very, i mean very high on Artest. He is my favoite player in the league. But can he provide the franchise with super star responsibilities? I think he absolutly could... but becase of the uncertainty he will need a partnet. Artest needs a pippen. Shaq had kobe, Duncan has ginobili/parker. Artest needs a PF who can help his intense role to win it all. I liek this additon talks. but in all honestly we need offensive post presence to go with the Defense. WE need a all star PF. No team wins without 2 allstars. miller/bibbey.... eh.... Im not a huge bibby fan, tho i love miller he doesnt play D. I dont have an answer becase there are no availible all star bigs for hte 4 position. KT/Shereef. cannot bring us to the glory land, tho they are solid role players. LEt me know what yall think...
Ok I have been reading all of these discussions on brining in Pryz, Chandler, griffin... and honestly i have reserched that to and liked it. but we need to realize 1 huge problem! What team has won a championship ever! without a super star. I am very, i mean very high on Artest. He is my favoite player in the league. But can he provide the franchise with super star responsibilities? I think he absolutly could... but becase of the uncertainty he will need a partnet. Artest needs a pippen. Shaq had kobe, Duncan has ginobili/parker. Artest needs a PF who can help his intense role to win it all. I liek this additon talks. but in all honestly we need offensive post presence to go with the Defense. WE need a all star PF. No team wins without 2 allstars. miller/bibbey.... eh.... Im not a huge bibby fan, tho i love miller he doesnt play D. I dont have an answer becase there are no availible all star bigs for hte 4 position. KT/Shereef. cannot bring us to the glory land, tho they are solid role players. LEt me know what yall think...
ForlornKing
Starter
SacKings4Life21 said:
Does Kevin Garnett ring a bell?
SacKings4Life21
Bench
of course he does.... Ron and Garnett would be devistating. we would be best defensive team in the league. Yoiu put the kids around him. Ship mike and brad would be my idea. But then u run into "loyalty" issues and ignorant kings fans who are like "OMG I LOVE MIKE! Brad!!!! OMG I LOVE HIM!" Kind of like how some girls loves a football team for thier colors, some fans KG would be amazing... but i wouldnt count on it at all... but that is championship for sure if it can go down
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
SacKings4Life21 said:
The All-star/superstar problem is a separate issue.
And I say separate because yes, its a titanic issue too and I don't know if Artest by himself is enough (in fact I suspect not). Of course the modern day non-superstar gender benders would be the Pistons, but they are damn near unique.
However, superstar or not, we absolutely need a lane clogger. Even the non-superstar Pistons have multiple ones -- in fact part of how they make up for their lack of an overwhelming talent. And we desperately need a non-shooting dirty-work roleplayer that basically every championship team going back as far as I can remember has had in its starting lineup to free up shots for its stars, whether its Big Ben, or Bowen, or Fox, or Rodman, or Horry, or Laimbeer, or Green/Rambis etc. etc..
We have too many scorers. Even if we picked up a superstar PF the problem would only get worse and half our roster would be rendered less valuable than Eduardo Najera as they were forced to play off the ball and do things that frankly, they suck at.
I would of course love to plug Garnett in next to Artest and just go kick the league's ***. But its an incredible longshot. And so first things first -- get that interior lane-clogger/rebounder to balance us out and at least give us a chance to stop a high school JV girls team from running layup drills through our lane. THEN, with that problem patched, go find that superstar. Somewhere. Somehow. doesn't matter what position he plays. Doesn't matter what we have to give up to get him except Artest (and preferably not our new lane-clogger unless said superstar can handle those duties).
SacKings4Life21
Bench
I suppose you are right dude. Lane Clogging is a must. BUt my only concern with just that was brought to my attention even more when I was sitting 5 rows from the flow at staples center last thursday...(this a kings thread.. u all know what happened) Noone coule do anything but make a jump shot (and they didnt even make them)... i just wanted to see somone dribble, post, pivot/spin, and jam (slappign the backboard of course). I was never a webber fan. But I do miss the confidence he brought down low (before surgery) SOmebody slap the glass! PLEASE
SacKings4Life21
Bench
I just want to add how much i love artest hehehe I was waiting for this trade for 3 years... the other person i love is Pauly P out in the the Big B. Awwww how i would loose my mind to see them at the 2/3
SacKings4Life21
Bench
do you guys really feel confident in a front line of miller and ty chan? with testy mike and bonzi (hopfully)? i mean thats nice with defense but who will score on a low post play? i think we will need someone to be a consistant scorer down low.
SacKings4Life21
Bench
You see a championship with that starting line up? I am not turning it downb, i just am skeptical. I suppose if Ty chan was literaly a lane clogger and a 10-13 rbs a night guy. then he would be very helpful. But what team has won without a go to guy in the post? the bulls had grant and rodman who could score when needed. Ty Chan can score lol
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Artest can play the post. And Chandler would clean up the garbage and get open looks from teams pressuring Bibby, Martin, Artest, and Miller on the perimeter.
