[Game] Kings vs. Wolves, 11/10/10 7PM

[Kingster]

You know, I was thinking the exact same thing in my mind too. Last year we clearly didn't struggle this badly on offense, sure we still were awful on defense but we stayed in games because we kept scoring the basketball. Even without Tyreke in some of our games, we put up 100+ easily. I really don't understand what's going on, maybe it's the lack of spacing, playing 4 on 5, sometimes 3 on 5 basketball. Who knows!

Beno was a zero tonight, just like the last game. Both point guards didn't play well. Seems like the whole offense is stymied if the point guard is stopped. I'm wondering if the substitution of low post type centers for high post type centers (Hawes and Thompson) has something to do the offense. Seems like it's easier to pack the paint with the low post centers, which negates a lot of what Tyreke and Beno do well.

 

[dukeswh]

lol



He hasn't added that. He's had it. Only, last season, he was dumping it off to guys who couldn't finish around the rim: JT and Hawes. The only difference is now he is dumping it off to players who are actually getting him assists instead of turning the ball over, or missing point blank shots, or getting rejected.

Evans 2PT jumpers last year: 95/287 (.331) This year: 9/24 (.375) Pace: 146/389 in 81 games
Evans 3PT jumpers last year: 36/141 (.255) This year: 4/10 (.400) Pace: 65/182 in 81 games

These numbers are from before today's game.

Data from hoopdata.com (via Sactown Royalty)

As stated by Cap. Factorial, Evans is on pace to shoot 389 jumpers. Compared to last year's 287, that's a difference of 102 more jumpers. FG%(jumpers) last year is 33% this year it's 38%. I think you can call those improvements, at least IMO, maybe not for you.

And I don't want him to change his style of attacking the basket aggressively since that's where he's best at and that's his strength, I don't want him to be a jumpshooter. He passing has also improved, although his decision making sometimes leaves something to be desired, well you can't expect huge leaps for a 2nd year player.

I just think you have set your expectations too high as far as reke's improving his game is concerned. But for me, I like what i see, and i'm sure he can only improve more as the season rolls on.

 

[kingsboi]

Beno was a zero tonight, just like the last game. Both point guards didn't play well. Seems like the whole offense is stymied if the point guard is stopped. I'm wondering if the substitution of low post type centers for high post type centers (Hawes and Thompson) has something to do the offense. Seems like it's easier to pack the paint with the low post centers, which negates a lot of what Tyreke and Beno do well.

That could be an option. I was thinking as well that we have Dalembert/Cousins in the paint and that blocks up the painted area for the most part and that doesn't leave you with much space to operate with. It also doesn't help to one C and two PF's in the game at the same time, that's too many big bodies going no where. Beno is shooting o.k. , Cisco is not too bad & Omri is inconsistent. That's pretty much all we have from the outside.

 

[PurpleHaze]

Westphal can be clueless sometimes. WTF was he thinking when he left Reke on the floor with 5 fouls.

I know what he was thinking and it's not uncommon in the NBA. Your best player has to be able to play with 5 fouls. Duncan, Melo, Kobe and other big-time stars play with 5 fouls and have for years on those nights they get wistled a lot. Their coaches trust them to not foul out and usually it's the right in game strategy.

I've been watching NBA basketball and college game since the early 1970's. Last season as a rook probably Coach W hold him out until around 4-5 minute mark. In this case he inserted him at 8-9 min mark in the game. The biggest lead Minny had all night until near final buzzer was 8 pts and if Coach had waited too long maybe it would have gotten out way out of range. At the time he fouled out Reke had played 27 mins. - so if he would have played until the end he would have recorded about35 mins on the night. Beno played total 40 mins, Cisco 28 mins.

 

[pshn80]

I was there tonight. It was one of the worst Kings performances i've seen in 25 years. They did not play well at all as a team. Too many important pieces played lousy. Maybe the reason Thompson plays the SF spot so often and so much tonight is because he is the best SF we have. Now that would be scarie but tonight you could sell it. The Kings can't go on this way. The league will set them down.

 

[DeMoN]

I know what he was thinking and it's not uncommon in the NBA. Your best player has to be able to play with 5 fouls. Duncan, Melo, Kobe and other big-time stars play with 5 fouls and have for years on those nights they get wistled a lot. Their coaches trust them to not foul out and usually it's the right in game strategy.

I've been watching NBA basketball and college game since the early 1970's. Last season as a rook probably Coach W hold him out until around 4-5 minute mark. In this case he inserted him at 8-9 min mark in the game. The biggest lead Minny had all night until near final buzzer was 8 pts and if Coach had waited too long maybe it would have gotten out way out of range. At the time he fouled out Reke had played 27 mins. - so if he would have played until the end he would have recorded about35 mins on the night. Beno played total 40 mins, Cisco 28 mins.

Oh god Evan's is in his second year...

 

[ArcoKings]

Very disappointing loss. Losing to the T-wolves at home? Lack of: D, offense, hitting FTs, and bricking TOO MANY 3s, etc, etc. Their practice sessions must suck. 1-3 on the home-stand. Not good. Rant over.

 

[Prince_XY]

lol Beno dribbling it off his foot and then falling to the floor.

Again?

Oh, well. That is not entirely surprising on Beno the awesome guard for the Kings. He never missed doing that every season of his entire career.

 

[The Basketball Kings]

Westphal should bench about everyone... let Slamson play at least hes Turnover free this season!

He should bench HIMSELF. Our offense sucks. Our defense sucks. We have talent, it's not being used properly.

Seriously - what the hell is going on over there?

 

[Lockehead]

Telfair and Beasley put up 25/49 fg for 58 points together. Most were isolated 1 on 1 plays. We didnt have anyone who could defend them individually, and we werent doubleteaming or help d-ing as effectively as we should had. On Offense, we actually recorded 10 more assists than they did, yet we were outscored 9 points. So, at least for tonight, we didnt have anyone who was an iso threat, or could get their own baskets except for tyreke and maybe beno. Maybe we are putting too much emphasis on teamwork and passing, while neglecting our own individual abilitites? If we can exploit our player's own abilities (such as we do with tyreke) then itll make the passing/team work part a lot easier..

 

[FaStRmAn]

Beasley lighting us up. Too bad our best SF defender is in the doghouse.

Well, they did play Greene on Beasley. Didn't look like shut down defense to me! Looked a little like someone who was out of shape, gets a 3:40 run and is so winded he doesnt get back in the game. Green did not stop Beasley, although he did as good a job as anyone else on the Kings. He needs to get back into Basketball shape. We sure could use the svelt Donte Green of last season.

Our defensive problems are at the Pointguard, where Beno just doesnt play defense, at the Small Forward, where Casspi gets torched, and at the Power Forward, where Landry can not guard anyone because everyone is bigger than him. Darnell Jackson is going to take Landry's JOB soon if he keeps playing the way he has. PW has got to plug the holes the Kings have on defense. The Kings do not have a lot of outside firepower. Having the lowest payroll in the NBA is starting to show. They really should have made a run at a 3 point shooting guard to help with scoring. Luther Head is a washed up POS. His shots are WAY off, and although everyone rants about his defense, he seems to have lapses of poor defense at critical times. They need to WAIVE Head and trade for a 2 guard who can shoot and play defense. Right now, the Kings have 2 problems. Teams have figured out how to guard Tyreke and they have no good one on one defenders except Dalembert. The Refs are really RIDING Cousins too. He gets some of the worst foul calls. He is guilty of some but he gets called for ticky tack fouls playing defense while he is getting beat up under the basket on the other end and not getting any calls.

 

[mac]

Beno was a zero tonight, just like the last game. Both point guards didn't play well. Seems like the whole offense is stymied if the point guard is stopped. I'm wondering if the substitution of low post type centers for high post type centers (Hawes and Thompson) has something to do the offense. Seems like it's easier to pack the paint with the low post centers, which negates a lot of what Tyreke and Beno do well.

I'm going to have to disagree with you a little here. Beno had an ok game. Not spectacular, but ok. He put up 16points 7 boards and 9assists. Where he hurts us most is on defence.
The REAL problem was ... the shortest guy we played in the entire game was our second leading rebounder. And us missing 12 free throws. And the TOs of course.

 

[Kingstime]

Westphal can be clueless sometimes. WTF was he thinking when he left Reke on the floor with 5 fouls.

The funniest part about that was Jerry Reynolds and anybody watching knew Reke would pick his 6th up via a offensive foul...then he did it hahaha just wow.

Offensively I think the biggest part in our regression directly ties into the coach. So far Beno is having a great year he is arguably even more consistent with his mid range game than last year so far. We also have a healthy Cisco shooting lights out off penetration and Omri is playing better as well, although a lilttle streaky. If Landry was actually hitting his shots the countless, clock draining ISO's we run for him would be paying off...but he's ice cold out there. I didn't even see our big rookie get more than 1 or 2 touches in the post last night. I have no problem with struggling this year as we are still young, but this team should be about the Reke/DMC combo working inside and out while our shooters(Cisco,Omri, Beno) feast off wide open looks. So far I'm seeing nothing but ISO dribble drive and dishes or Landry corner bricks just boring bball to watch.

As the season goes on I really hope this gets better because as I've said before there really is alot of talent on this team it's just deeply hidden amongst confusion...

 

[MizzouKing]

... this team should be about the Reke/DMC combo working inside and out while our shooters(Cisco,Omri, Beno) feast off wide open looks. So far I'm seeing nothing but ISO dribble drive and dishes or Landry corner bricks just boring bball to watch. As the season goes on I really hope this gets better because as I've said before there really is alot of talent on this team it's just deeply hidden amongst confusion...

That's how it looks to me too. There just seems to be some kind of disconnect, some missing piece. Being young and inexperienced should make for some fun and exciting basketball with a clear direction for improvement. I'm not ready to dump it all on the coach just yet, but I have to wonder where the disconnect is?

 

[Showtime]

As stated by Cap. Factorial, Evans is on pace to shoot 389 jumpers. Compared to last year's 287, that's a difference of 102 more jumpers. FG%(jumpers) last year is 33% this year it's 38%. I think you can call those improvements, at least IMO, maybe not for you.

I didn't think this needed to be stated, but OK: you are using a pace factor of 7 games.

I bet the actual numbers don't show much improvement over the course of the season, which can happen with small sample sizes on which to base projections. Now that that's out of the way...in those 7 games, there isn't a huge improvement, even if we extended that pace over the course of a season. Even with the numbers you just posted, there's not a dramatic improvement. But I'm talking about more than numbers.

I guess people just don't want to read. My point all along has been about Evans getting to the point with his jumper to where he can consistently use it as another weapon in his game. Right now, he's still only taking them rarely, and hitting still at an inconsistent clip. Even if those numbers you posted become an accurate projection, that's still not good for a NBA star shooting guard. If he drained 38% of them all season long, the way he's playing still doesn't reflect a player who has that weapon in his arsenal. Defenses don't even bother with it, and Evans doesn't bother using it when he should, such as in situations where defenses are gameplanning against his drive and he's in foul trouble. He will still not be at the point of having a legitimate jumper to use against teams, which is the entire point of working on a shot.

And I don't want him to change his style of attacking the basket aggressively since that's where he's best at and that's his strength, I don't want him to be a jumpshooter. He passing has also improved, although his decision making sometimes leaves something to be desired, well you can't expect huge leaps for a 2nd year player.

SMFH I guess nobody can read on this forum. Did Wade improving his jumper make him less of a threat to drive? Did Lebron improving his shot and defense make him less of a threat to get to the basket? What is so hard to understand about this? Adding weapons to his game to make him effective in more areas in order to impact the game and be a better player does NOT turn him into Jason Kapono. Jesus.

I just think you have set your expectations too high as far as reke's improving his game is concerned. But for me, I like what i see, and i'm sure he can only improve more as the season rolls on.

I guess it is too much to ask to have a guy with that kind of potential not really work to improve and expand his game over the summer after winning ROY.

 

[Bricklayer]

I didn't think this needed to be stated, but OK: you are using a pace factor of 7 games.

I bet the actual numbers don't show much improvement over the course of the season, which can happen with small sample sizes on which to base projections. Now that that's out of the way...in those 7 games, there isn't a huge improvement, even if we extended that pace over the course of a season. Even with the numbers you just posted, there's not a dramatic improvement. But I'm talking about more than numbers.

I guess people just don't want to read. My point all along has been about Evans getting to the point with his jumper to where he can consistently use it as another weapon in his game. Right now, he's still only taking them rarely, and hitting still at an inconsistent clip. Even if those numbers you posted become an accurate projection, that's still not good for a NBA star shooting guard. He will still not be at the point of having a legitimate jumper to use against teams, which is the entire point of working on a shot.



SMFH I guess nobody can read on this forum. Did Wade improving his jumper make him less of a threat to drive? Did Lebron improving his shot and defense make him less of a threat to get to the basket? What is so hard to understand about this? Adding weapons to his game to make him effective in more areas in order to impact the game and be a better player does NOT turn him into Jason Kapono. Jesus.


I guess it is too much to ask to have a guy with that kind of potential not really work to improve and expand his game over the summer after winning ROY.

I'm sorry but again your post comes across as a load of hooey because we know he DID put in the work and it HAS been evident. There's not even a conversation to be had because you are watching the same games (or are you?) and ignoring the advances that are obvious to everybody else. A guy could come back shooting 50% from 3pt land and it wouldn't be any improvement at all to somebody who chose to ignore it.

There was no way, none, that Tyreke was going to come back off a single summer's work and have Kobe's jumper. Just physically impossible.for anybody, including Kobe himself. All he could do was improve, and then improve again next summer, and then imiprove again the next summer after that. And he has. The eyes support it. The numbers support it. But if you don't want to see that there is nothing to talk about.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I didn't think this needed to be stated, but OK: you are using a pace factor of 7 games.

5 games, actually, because Tyreke was suspended for the first and the values were compiled before last night's game.

But look at what you just did. First you demanded statistics that backed up the opposing viewpoint, then when the best available statistics were provided, you say that they don't count.

Read that again.

I'll give you one thing, that's a good strategy to keep people from arguing with you. Another good strategy to keep people from arguing with you is to stick your fingers in your ears and scream "NA NA NA NA NA NA NA I'M NOT LISTENING TO YOU NA NA NA NA NA!" at the top of your voice.

 

[Arco Thunder]

That's how it looks to me too. There just seems to be some kind of disconnect, some missing piece. Being young and inexperienced should make for some fun and exciting basketball with a clear direction for improvement. I'm not ready to dump it all on the coach just yet, but I have to wonder where the disconnect is?

I agree that something's definitely not quite right. I'm trying to give it a little more time, but part of me wants things to start clicking NOW for the sake of our future here in Sacramento. My heart aches to see this team succeed... I love my Kings.