Kings Roster next season

You compare what you are reading on this board with Poku and OKC fans. It’s pretty shocking how short term thinking this fan base has become. The management reflects that thinking. I guess that approach is how you insure you stay out of the playoffs for years.

I haven't read those forums and I am a big fan of Poku, but everyone and I mean everyone saw him as a super long term project. I don't think their fan base or management gets any bonus points for that.
 
I haven't read those forums and I am a big fan of Poku, but everyone and I mean everyone saw him as a super long term project. I don't think their fan base or management gets any bonus points for that.
I’m talking more how their fan base takes a longer term view ( and the view with Poku is very long) while the Kings fan base is focused on making the play-offs this year each and every year.

Once we let Bogi walk we weren’t making the play-offs this year. Which by the way is fine but then why make the moves Monte subsequently made? We shall see how he drafts but so far the first year with Monte is not encouraging.
 
You compare what you are reading on this board with Poku and OKC fans. It’s pretty shocking how short term thinking this fan base has become. The management reflects that thinking. I guess that approach is how you insure you stay out of the playoffs for years.
Ah the verdict from on high comes once again. Woe to all of us mortal fans, let us pray the gods send our saviour Bogdanovic. May our fortunes flip like the fandom, empty threats and hissy fits of random people on the internet. May our short term thinking be made as long as our playoff drought. May our playoff appearances be made as repetitive as his posts.
 
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I’m talking more how their fan base takes a longer term view ( and the view with Poku is very long) while the Kings fan base is focused on making the play-offs this year each and every year.

Once we let Bogi walk we weren’t making the play-offs this year. Which by the way is fine but then why make the moves Monte subsequently made? We shall see how he drafts but so far the first year with Monte is not encouraging.
I am not sure of the bone you have to pick with McNair. You seem to have a negative view in regards to just about everything he has done. It is possible he is trying to make lemonade out of the lemon Vivek is as an owner. When looking at decisions he is making, context matters.

Because he kept Walton, last year is on him. Despite what we may have wanted last year, Vivek wanted play-offs. They came up short but weren't even expected to be in the conversation. Half-full or half-empty? The stated goal for next year is the play-offs or at least play-in if they have it again. He should be judged according this coming year. I personally think looking at his moves in the context of Vivek wanting and quite possibly only allowing moves with that goal in mind puts a different spin on things. Here is hoping for lemonade but anticipating more sour lemons........
 
I am not sure of the bone you have to pick with McNair. You seem to have a negative view in regards to just about everything he has done. It is possible he is trying to make lemonade out of the lemon Vivek is as an owner. When looking at decisions he is making, context matters.

Because he kept Walton, last year is on him. Despite what we may have wanted last year, Vivek wanted play-offs. They came up short but weren't even expected to be in the conversation. Half-full or half-empty? The stated goal for next year is the play-offs or at least play-in if they have it again. He should be judged according this coming year. I personally think looking at his moves in the context of Vivek wanting and quite possibly only allowing moves with that goal in mind puts a different spin on things. Here is hoping for lemonade but anticipating more sour lemons........
Short answer - he didn't keep Bogdanovic who would have otherwise led us to championship
 
Short answer - he didn't keep Bogdanovic who would have otherwise led us to championship
You make large assumptions about Bogi's willingness to stay, Walton's ability to use Bogi and you overlook the opportunity cost of keeping him on the squad. If Kings kept Bogi and Buddy there are serious potential issues with extending Fox and no playing time for Halliburton. Once Tyrese slipped to the Kings in the draft either Bogi or Buddy had to go to make room and with Buddy's contract the writing was on the wall. I have yet to be impressed with Monte as GM but he made the right move trying to sign and trade Bogi, he just did not watch his background when he pulled the Triger and the deal blew up.
 
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There is a only couple of PF that averaged more than 10 rebounds a game. And those guys play heavy minutes. It is very tough for Bagley, or anyone really, to average 10 without playing heavy minutes or at the center position.
Bagley per 36 is the best rebounder on the team per minute outside of Hassan who is an ELITE rebounder by the numbers.
 
You make large assumptions about Bogi's willingness to stay, Walton's ability to use Bogi and you overlook the opportunity cost of keeping him on the squad. If Kings kept Bogi and Buddy there are serious potential issues with extending Fox and no playing time for Halliburton. Once Tyrese slipped to the Kings in the draft either Bogi or Buddy had to go to make room and with Buddy's contract the writing was on the wall. I have yet to be impressed with Monte as GM but he made the right move trying to sign and trade Bogi, he just did not watch his background when he pulled the Triger and the deal blew up.
Anyone could tell just by the body language Bogdan was gone. Vlade was proactive about some things and considerably inactive on others. Monte started off proactive in some ways and is proving inactive in others. More of the same and mostly related to the coaching spot and player usage. There is no sense in sitting in the middle but they are determined to give this a 3rd go here so hopefully 3rd time is either the charm or if it isn't they aren't going to let this stumble along any farther. Monte has to be aggressive early. If Walton falters out of the gate he has to try and shock the locker room with a coaching change, then if that doesn't work, time to start moving the other direction before his options on a quick semi-rebuild on the fly are extinguished. It's funny Kings fans have seen it ALL over the last 15 years when it comes to FO moves. Maybe they should crowd source this thing which seems like a very Vivek thing to do. haha.
 
I’m talking more how their fan base takes a longer term view ( and the view with Poku is very long) while the Kings fan base is focused on making the play-offs this year each and every year.

Once we let Bogi walk we weren’t making the play-offs this year. Which by the way is fine but then why make the moves Monte subsequently made? We shall see how he drafts but so far the first year with Monte is not encouraging.
You like to claim others are short sighted, but the short term is all you seem to see when itcomes to Monte's moves. The move for TD helped our bench this season, but was obviously a move for the future IMO. His talent is obvious (just inconsistent). If we can get him to be more consistent, he could be a huge part of the future. The same could be said of Delon Wright. Everyone could see that Joseph didn't fit with this team and they desperately needed a good backup PG. Especially one that could keep the offense up tempo and play good defense. The only move that might not help our future was the trade with Miami. Although, maybe we find a way for Harkless to stay on the bench.
 
You like to claim others are short sighted, but the short term is all you seem to see when itcomes to Monte's moves. The move for TD helped our bench this season, but was obviously a move for the future IMO. His talent is obvious (just inconsistent). If we can get him to be more consistent, he could be a huge part of the future. The same could be said of Delon Wright. Everyone could see that Joseph didn't fit with this team and they desperately needed a good backup PG. Especially one that could keep the offense up tempo and play good defense. The only move that might not help our future was the trade with Miami. Although, maybe we find a way for Harkless to stay on the bench.
It was still shortsighted though because they gave themselves all of about a couple of months to decipher that while the player was in a contract year and then let him go completely ham to finish off the season. I'm not sure it will end up costing the Kings much money relative to his upside but that's gambling for sure and depends on agents and the market. I think Monte was like "we'll take a flyer on someone" considering the stash of Vlades 2nd rounders from here to eternity is more of a burden than anything. Little did he realize who is coach was apparently. Even without the injuries mounting up Walton was going to build these guys up beyond probably what they should have been. He has serious double standards issues and always has. If someone comes up from the bottom of the heap they get green lights all the way but players like Buddy, Bogdan, etc. get jerked around. This is the story of the pre-LeBron Lakers in a nutshell and you don't want to be them as a franchise.
 
You compare what you are reading on this board with Poku and OKC fans. It’s pretty shocking how short term thinking this fan base has become. The management reflects that thinking. I guess that approach is how you insure you stay out of the playoffs for years.
My thinking may or may not be limited to the short term. But at least, I think, I am able to hold more than one theme in my head.
 
Ah the verdict from on high comes once again. Woe to all of us mortal fans, let us pray the gods send our saviour Bogdanovic. May our fortunes flip like the fandom, empty threats and hissy fits of random people on the internet. May our short term thinking be made as long as our playoff drought. May our playoff appearances be made as repetitive as his posts.
He must be really slumming it when he hangs out with us simpletons. Like when Jesus walked amongst the prostitutes.

* Please note my comments are meant in good humour. I find the short sighted criticism more amusing than anything else.
 
Back to team building. One thought at a time so we can all keep up. Nice little attempt to quantify the spacing we have (or don't have).


Spacing: A player’s ability to draw their defender out of the paint to the three point line

Gravity: A on-ball player’s ability to draw their defender to them and away from shooters
I mentioned this a few times this season and while Walton did actually use Buddy very well in pnr because of it he was consistently the one player teams emphasized off the ball and on the ball on defense and a lot of what Haliburton, Fox, and Barnes got in terms of looks early on was partly Buddy's presence. Teams would space their defense to Buddy's side consistently and would draw up doubles to him in pick and roll. This is why Buddy being used more and more in pick and roll and off screens was a mistake though. He should have been in more spot up scenarios to provide that spacing since teams were content on playing Fox and Haliburton one on one.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
Back to team building. One thought at a time so we can all keep up. Nice little attempt to quantify the spacing we have (or don't have).


Spacing: A player’s ability to draw their defender out of the paint to the three point line

Gravity: A on-ball player’s ability to draw their defender to them and away from shooters
This tells me we should have been running a lot more plays for Harkless because he was wide open all the time.
 
You like to claim others are short sighted, but the short term is all you seem to see when itcomes to Monte's moves. The move for TD helped our bench this season, but was obviously a move for the future IMO. His talent is obvious (just inconsistent). If we can get him to be more consistent, he could be a huge part of the future. The same could be said of Delon Wright. Everyone could see that Joseph didn't fit with this team and they desperately needed a good backup PG. Especially one that could keep the offense up tempo and play good defense. The only move that might not help our future was the trade with Miami. Although, maybe we find a way for Harkless to stay on the bench.
My issue is not with those players but the orders you do things.

Step 1) Get your star. Done via the draft or free agency

Step 2) Fill around them with role players

we did it in reverse which might work if you are in Brooklyn but we aren’t in Brooklyn. So I’m not going to argue your points on the roll players. But without them we likely finish 4 or 5th in the lottery with a 50% versus 20% chance at a top 4 pick.
 
Short answer - he didn't keep Bogdanovic who would have otherwise led us to championship
meh. You aren’t really paying attention.

My issue was not picking and committing to a direction and failing to take advantage of the limited assets he was given. ( ie letting players walk for nothing, wasting 2nds in an futile playoff attempt).
 
You make large assumptions about Bogi's willingness to stay, Walton's ability to use Bogi and you overlook the opportunity cost of keeping him on the squad. If Kings kept Bogi and Buddy there are serious potential issues with extending Fox and no playing time for Halliburton. Once Tyrese slipped to the Kings in the draft either Bogi or Buddy had to go to make room and with Buddy's contract the writing was on the wall. I have yet to be impressed with Monte as GM but he made the right move trying to sign and trade Bogi, he just did not watch his background when he pulled the Triger and the deal blew up.
I shall assume you didn't mean to be referring to me..
 
meh. You aren’t really paying attention.

My issue was not picking and committing to a direction and failing to take advantage of the limited assets he was given. ( ie letting players walk for nothing, wasting 2nds in an futile playoff attempt).
Lol, dude picking and committing to a direction had absolutely nothing to do with it, or if it did, you barely talked about it prior to us letting Bogi walk. You very clearly wanted us to keep Bogi, and turned to bashing Buddy as a result. You love to talk about how others Kings fans are short sighted, not fact-based, basically stupid. Well you, king of Kings fans, threw a hissy fit and quit the team ON ONE SINGLE MOVE just because McNair didn't get a trade exception from the Hawks. It had everything to do with keeping Buddy over Bogi, or need I remind you of the following?

"I read that Bogi doesn’t want to deal with the Buddy comments and drama. I have heard other things about him wanting to be in Sac. Do you think the Buddy drama stops when Haliburton takes his spot?"

"I think Buddy’s stupid play, expanding reputation as a source of locker room drama and overpaid contract make him almost untradeable as Sam alluded to. I don’t think any of that goes away and worse it could impact Haliburton."

"I think you have to consider Buddy being a bad environment for Haliburton. He is clearly not going to mentor him both because he is too ****ing dumb and selfish."

"Reading Amick has me convinced more then ever you sign Bogi and bring the hammer down on Buddy until you can trade him."

"I see these comments but no comment what happens when/if Haliburton becomes as good as we hope. We know Bogi is a professional and Buddy is not. We know Bogi can teach Haliburton somethings and Buddy can not."

"No way in hell. Buddy’s contract is untradeable. This is it for me. I’m done with stupid GM’s. Perhaps I will return in 3 years to say I told you so when you are still in the lottery and Buddy is on the team"

Anybody with half a brain knows that you're just a Bogi stan from how often you bring him up. You made up your mind on Monte the second he let Bogi walk, and since then all you've done is nitpick to fit your "Monte is bad" narrative, even taking the unpopular opinion of defending Luke Walton at one point. Please don't treat us like idiots and pretend that your main gripe is some objective criticism of Monte's GMing over the course of the season.
 
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Bogdans fate was sealed by Walton the year prior PERIOD. He allowed it to become Buddy vs. Bogdan instead of Bogdan and Buddy. And the sad thing is he saw a similar combo of Haliburton and Buddy create 2/5's of a top 4 net rating unit and STILL benched it in favor of a player averaging 2 mpg before he hit the bench in Sac.

And as you would have it, the Kings are kind of in the same scenario now with Bagley and Holmes. The one positive is at least Walton prefers to play them together even though this team is so much better with Barnes at PF. History repeats itself because morons are going to moron. Is Monte a moron? We don't even know if he has actual power yet since Dumars and a Vivek hover above. This summer likely exposes all of this for what it actually is.
 
Lol, dude picking and committing to a direction had absolutely nothing to do with it, or if it did, you barely talked about it prior to us letting Bogi walk. You very clearly wanted us to keep Bogi, and turned to bashing Buddy as a result. You love to talk about how others Kings fans are short sighted, not fact-based, basically stupid. Well you, king of Kings fans, threw a hissy fit and quit the team ON ONE SINGLE MOVE just because McNair didn't get a trade exception from the Hawks. It had everything to do with keeping Buddy over Bogi, or need I remind you of the following?

"I read that Bogi doesn’t want to deal with the Buddy comments and drama. I have heard other things about him wanting to be in Sac. Do you think the Buddy drama stops when Haliburton takes his spot?"

"I think Buddy’s stupid play, expanding reputation as a source of locker room drama and overpaid contract make him almost untradeable as Sam alluded to. I don’t think any of that goes away and worse it could impact Haliburton."

"I think you have to consider Buddy being a bad environment for Haliburton. He is clearly not going to mentor him both because he is too ****ing dumb and selfish."

"Reading Amick has me convinced more then ever you sign Bogi and bring the hammer down on Buddy until you can trade him."

"I see these comments but no comment what happens when/if Haliburton becomes as good as we hope. We know Bogi is a professional and Buddy is not. We know Bogi can teach Haliburton somethings and Buddy can not."

"No way in hell. Buddy’s contract is untradeable. This is it for me. I’m done with stupid GM’s. Perhaps I will return in 3 years to say I told you so when you are still in the lottery and Buddy is on the team"

Anybody with half a brain knows that you're just a Bogi stan from how often you bring him up. You made up your mind on Monte the second he let Bogi walk, and since then all you've done is nitpick to fit your "Monte is bad" narrative, even taking the unpopular opinion of defending Luke Walton at one point. Please don't treat us like idiots and pretend that your main gripe is some objective criticism of Monte's GMing over the course of the season.
If you are comparing keeping Buddy versus Bogi yeah that’s a no brainer. How many stupid turnovers in key games did it take for you to draw the same conclusion. That said I didn’t complain about Monte until he let Bogi walk for nothing.
 
You make large assumptions about Bogi's willingness to stay, Walton's ability to use Bogi and you overlook the opportunity cost of keeping him on the squad. If Kings kept Bogi and Buddy there are serious potential issues with extending Fox and no playing time for Halliburton. Once Tyrese slipped to the Kings in the draft either Bogi or Buddy had to go to make room and with Buddy's contract the writing was on the wall. I have yet to be impressed with Monte as GM but he made the right move trying to sign and trade Bogi, he just did not watch his background when he pulled the Triger and the deal blew up.
Bogdqn and his agent got more money from ATL. Otherwise Bogdan would be a Buck.
 
If he can't anchor a defense... is center really Bagley's best position?

That requires you to find a forward to play next to him that can space the floor offensively but also anchor the defense... a unicorn essentially. And then you are back like you were with Tyreke Evans, having to bend over backward to find players to fit next to a player who might not be worth it.

I hate to say it, but when you look at centers who can bring offense and rebounds but not defense... the Kanters and Monroes... they found their greatest success coming off the bench. If he's not a PF, is that Bagley's destiny?

(Edit to add -- I can't say I know the answers to these questions, nor am I making any grand pronouncements about Bagley's future, I just think these are the things that need to be thought out and addressed to figure out how to move forward. It really is a shame about all the injuries, because the team should have been able to experiment with different lineups and looks to figure these out the past three years. Unfortunately, many of the same questions about Bagley's fit that were raised in his first season remain unanswered.)
I hear you saying that the Kings should acquire “The Unicorn” from Dallas.
 
I suspect it will be harder to make the play-offs next year. Golden State will have Thompson back and likely the 7th pick in the draft.

Minnesota should be healthy.

OKC could have two top 5 picks to go with SGA and Dort.

The only team I can say we for sure will be better than will be Houston. We might be better than New Orleans if they lose Ball. I would like to add SA but we never seem to be able to beat them when it matters. So best case I think we end up back end of lottery unless Monte gets lucky and picks well in the lottery.

late edit: or Marvin does a Julius Randle next year.
I think fans can reasonably infer from McNair’s post-season comments that he knows that this current Kings squad does not have the makings of a contender in the Western Conference. I believe that Monte is a savvy executive, and he’s not going to shy away from making moves that will significantly re-tool the roster. He has to be bold, otherwise the team will continue to be mired in mediocrity.
 
I think fans can reasonably infer from McNair’s post-season comments that he knows that this current Kings squad does not have the makings of a contender in the Western Conference. I believe that Monte is a savvy executive, and he’s not going to shy away from making moves that will significantly re-tool the roster. He has to be bold, otherwise the team will continue to be mired in mediocrity.
Well a good time to have done those things was probably at the deadline and he didn't do those things, he did the opposite. He looked to fill out the bench and added salary to his cap sheet next year when his starting center is a FA and he's already limited in terms of what he can pay him. We'll see if he makes bold moves but so far he's done far from that with "his" decision on the coaching spot.
 
Well a good time to have done those things was probably at the deadline and he didn't do those things, he did the opposite. He looked to fill out the bench and added salary to his cap sheet next year when his starting center is a FA and he's already limited in terms of what he can pay him. We'll see if he makes bold moves but so far he's done far from that with "his" decision on the coaching spot.
outside of trading Barnes for a pick and a young player (and at this point are we sure that was even on the table? Boston never really did anything else) what move would you have liked Monte to make?
He allegedly tried to trade Bags to Detroit for a player many of us would have been happy with in the draft. Buddy isn’t moveable yet. The only thing he could have done at the deadline is sit on his extra second rounders and maybe trade Holmes. Hard to trade a guy you want long term even if there is a chance he bolts.
 
outside of trading Barnes for a pick and a young player (and at this point are we sure that was even on the table? Boston never really did anything else) what move would you have liked Monte to make?
He allegedly tried to trade Bags to Detroit for a player many of us would have been happy with in the draft. Buddy isn’t moveable yet. The only thing he could have done at the deadline is sit on his extra second rounders and maybe trade Holmes. Hard to trade a guy you want long term even if there is a chance he bolts.
you are correct he really only had two possible moves: Barnes and/or Holmes.