SLAB
Hall of Famer
Next year he’ll be healthy, average 24/15, and play great defense.
Its that fourth year leap you expect from such a talented young man!!!
Kings Roster next season
- Thread starter sactowndog
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Next year he’ll be healthy, average 24/15, and play great defense.
Its that fourth year leap you expect from such a talented young man!!!
ockingsfan
Starter
Bagley has a lot of offensive and rebounding potential, the problem is his defense and staying healthy. He could easily be a top 10 offensive center in the NBA. Most centers nowadays in the NBA aren't very good offensively, even if Bagley is guarding them. The problem with Bagley is that he was playing power forward, which has more talented offensive players eating him up down low. Bagley's best position is Center, whether he likes it or not. However, Monte will need to find a very good defensive specialist to anchor the defensive starting next to him.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
With the way Holmes got bounced around by big centers, Bagley’s going to get both bounced and broken by a big center the first time one breathes on him.
ockingsfan
Starter
True, but Bagley will need to put on his big boy pants at some point in his career or he will be out of the league in a few years. He's going to have to play through the minor injuries and get stronger to stay in the league. Unless Monte can find a good deal for Bagley, we may need to sink or swim with him, especially if we lose Holmes in FA. The Kings don't have much behind Holmes, if we lose him in FA.
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steelevt
All-Star
The prophet has spoken! Lock him up with a multi year contract ASAP
chief bromden
Starter
Your jest about Walton sticking around about a month or so ago came true... So excuse me if I got really excited to see this post from you. Finals bound next season, baby!
But seriously, in true Kings fashion, he will be 24/15 next season in another lost season due to others being injured, then the Kings will max him only for him to be hurt every year after. Lol
LPKingsFan
All-Star
If he can't anchor a defense... is center really Bagley's best position?
That requires you to find a forward to play next to him that can space the floor offensively but also anchor the defense... a unicorn essentially. And then you are back like you were with Tyreke Evans, having to bend over backward to find players to fit next to a player who might not be worth it.
I hate to say it, but when you look at centers who can bring offense and rebounds but not defense... the Kanters and Monroes... they found their greatest success coming off the bench. If he's not a PF, is that Bagley's destiny?
(Edit to add -- I can't say I know the answers to these questions, nor am I making any grand pronouncements about Bagley's future, I just think these are the things that need to be thought out and addressed to figure out how to move forward. It really is a shame about all the injuries, because the team should have been able to experiment with different lineups and looks to figure these out the past three years. Unfortunately, many of the same questions about Bagley's fit that were raised in his first season remain unanswered.)
Livinthedream
All-Star
He's a small ball 5 and a traditional 4 that can stretch the floor a little. If you're playjng small, theoretically it's because the other team isn't playing very big at the time. If HB slides down to 4, or Harkless is in, then you have another good defender in the frontcourt with him. If the Kings are playing a traditional lineup, Marvin himself can be a bit of a floor spacer because he can shoot the 3. This makes Marvin a way more flexible piece than Holmes.
The question with Marvin is health, not fit.
The question with Marvin is health, not fit.
Somebody needs to play physical basketball on the Kings next year. And it won’t be Haliburton, Barnes or Bagley. Fox plays physical ball, but he is no enforcer. And Holmes is physical for a 4, not so much compared to true 5’s. I think the first question that needs to be answered is - where is the physicality going to come from? Once that is answered, we can build out the roster.
I think both health and fit are legit questions with him. We know the Kings' defense was atrocious. The road to respectability, much less perennial playoff participation or championship contention, is largely about making leaps and bounds on the defensive side. The Kings' defensive woes clearly don't reduce to MB's liabilities, but, right now, whether at the 4 or 5 he hurts you; you have to talk about a complementary player (or players) along the front line.
Even offensively it's tricky. OOH, he shot 34.3% from 3. Not great, but not bad (2 pts better than DFox), and trending upward. But he's clearly more comfortable and effective down low, meaning, as LPKingsFan says, the ideal fit with him is a defensive anchor w/a 3-ball - Jaren Jackson w/better rebounding skills. (Dedmon was supposed to offer some of that, but...)
Not easy.
Except when we played the 76ers at home, Bagley was the guy that actually was effective against Embiid, surprisingly. But that was a one time deal I think. Bagley is a 4 it appears
Livinthedream
All-Star
JJJ is what you would need to compliment Holmes. Marvin has had to make the adjustments in his game so they can play Holmes as a starting 5. In reality, Holmes is what we're trying to work around. When the team goes big, we have our small ball center still in the game and we have Marvin playing the 4, standing in the corner. So we still have an undersized 5 even when we're supposed to be big.
More often then not when both Holmes and Marvin are playing together, fans get frustrated with Marvin not being able to stop the opposing 5, completely missing the fact that Marvin has to play the 5 on defense because Holmes can't match up either and gets in foul trouble. But Marvin has to also play the 4 on offense because Holmes can't space the floor. This isn't a defense of Marvin. It's just the facts of what's happening on the court.
sactowndog
All-Star
I suspect it will be harder to make the play-offs next year. Golden State will have Thompson back and likely the 7th pick in the draft.
Minnesota should be healthy.
OKC could have two top 5 picks to go with SGA and Dort.
The only team I can say we for sure will be better than will be Houston. We might be better than New Orleans if they lose Ball. I would like to add SA but we never seem to be able to beat them when it matters. So best case I think we end up back end of lottery unless Monte gets lucky and picks well in the lottery.
late edit: or Marvin does a Julius Randle next year.
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SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Is it? We already know what Walton chose him over Haliburton to start and it was a FAIL. They stuck with Walton and if they give him free range and it doesn't work this will hurt them like it did the Lakers. Young potential diminished, role players elevated. Scary, scary, scary.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Exactly, and Marvin has looked like a better post defender than Holmes already. The issue with Marvin is on the other end. The defense was doomed regardless of who they put out there and Marvin playing spacer for Holmes is killing his potential.
Telemachus
Starter
Bagley actually faired much better defensively against big centers than Holmes. He is taller and longer than Holmes and didn't have to do a lot of help defense. It is when he has to be theone to try and clog all the holes defensively that he gets confused (and where Holmes excells).
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Yeah, the things about Holmes is that his motor is off the charts and while he doesn't have the post D potential Bagley does he's got grit Bagley has rarely shown.
Telemachus
Starter
This is one of the reasons I want the Kings to somehow get Evan Mobley. His defensive potential is off the charts. He is a legitimate 7 footer and a very good athlete who runs the floor well. On offense, he has a good mid range game (15-20 ft.) who can put the ball on the floor. He has very good vision and passing ability for a center and showed some ability to hit the 3 (too small of a sample size to judge). He would be able to play along side of either Bagley or Holmes with no trouble.
Livinthedream
All-Star
He's a good prospect as you've outlined. As with all big men, they need time to develop and for their bodies to fill out. Monte isn't going to wait 3 years for another big. I suspect the Kings are looking to trade the pick, which is why they weren't concerned with tanking.
These are not the facts of what's happening on the court. I'd argue that almost everything you've said here is the completely opposite of what is actually happening. Bagley is not playing the 5 on defense with Holmes out there. His defense is worse in every conceivable way. There is literally nothing Bagley does on defense that is as good as Holmes and he's not even in the same universe when it comes to defending the pick and roll. Maybe you've seen them switch or cover each others man here and there but Bagley is certainly not tasked with guarding opposing 5s to cover for Holmes' inability. I'm sorry but that's absurd.
sactowndog
All-Star
Holmes is a much better pick and roll defender.
sactowndog
All-Star
If the Kings get a top 2-3 pick in this draft to pair with Fox and Hali and trade it away because Monte doesn’t want to wait a year two..... he will have officially moved into Vlade level incompetence.
Livinthedream
All-Star
If the goal is the playoffs ASAP, don't take a C with a top 3 pick. I personnally have the patience to watch a player develop. But that's not where this fan base is at and it's not where our owner is at. Everything from Monte and Luke from the last couple of days of interviews has centered around making the playoffs. A 19 year old center is not going to move the needle right away. Ask Golden State how useful Wiseman has been for their playoffs run.
I can't imagine that Monte would deal away the pick if we got into the top-4 in this draft. That's a fireable offense.
It would be Bagley all over again, though hopefully the kid could stay healthy.
2018 draft was the year the big men came back, right now 3 years in Ayton looks ok but maybe not worthy of the #1 overall. JJJ has a future if he can stay healthy. Bagley looks like a bust because he can't. Bamba has been declared a bust. Trae Young was the only top 6 pick who impressed his rookie year except for that other guy who I can't remember his name, but I'm pretty sure he was picked at 1.5 before we picked at two, right?
I'm just not sure with the way contracts are structured you can wait 3-4 years on a guy when you have to make a huge decision the next year.
Section 101
All-Star
This is the entire problem. He shouldn't have rebounding potential. No reason he shouldn't be over 10 a game now even with limited minutes. It's all effort based.
Pretty much would depend on what he traded it away FOR.
sactowndog
All-Star
You compare what you are reading on this board with Poku and OKC fans. It’s pretty shocking how short term thinking this fan base has become. The management reflects that thinking. I guess that approach is how you insure you stay out of the playoffs for years.
regularkingsfan
G-League
There is a only couple of PF that averaged more than 10 rebounds a game. And those guys play heavy minutes. It is very tough for Bagley, or anyone really, to average 10 without playing heavy minutes or at the center position.
krylia sovetov
Bench
poku had tremendous luck to get drafted by OKC... as you can see, he can do whatever he wants on a court, since OKC is in deep tank
in all other scenarios, he'd be a G league player with a 5-6 MPG in NBA
and, i'm not sure how good we are in developing raw players, maybe bagley is uncoachable, maybe its us.
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