[Game] Kings @ Knicks - 12/4/16 - 4:30PT/7:30ET

Temple have been good for us. Barnes is okay, as long as we don't rely on him to play heavy minutes; he should be a 12-15 minute guy, instead of the 26 minute guy he has been. We don't really know what we have in Tolliver: he was lights out in the preseason, missed his first couple of shots of the regular season, and basically hasn't been given any burn since. Afflalo has been the only unqualified bad signing, to this point; there are at least three guys on the roster I'd rather see getting those minutes right now.
We are in agreement on all points you mentioned.
I have not been able to find post game comments for almost all this road trip for some reason. I had gone against principal and been checking them out on facebook, but this trip they have not been there either. very frustrating.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Temple have been good for us. Barnes is okay, as long as we don't rely on him to play heavy minutes; he should be a 12-15 minute guy, instead of the 26 minute guy he has been. We don't really know what we have in Tolliver: he was lights out in the preseason, missed his first couple of shots of the regular season, and basically hasn't been given any burn since. Afflalo has been the only unqualified bad signing, to this point; there are at least three guys on the roster I'd rather see getting those minutes right now.
Barnes has never been a 12-15 minute guy. He's right where he always is.

BUT, the problem is that we are over reliant on him to consistently provide things he has only ever inconsistently provided. Always been an up and down player. Major rotation guy who can spark you, but never a night in night out rock. We need more rocks so Matt can get back to just being our wildcard.
 
If Joerger doesnt start WCS and Temple it is fair game to ask BIG questions about him. First half struggles directly correlate to Koufos and Afflalo not fitting with starters and second unit being anemic on offense.
It's to the point where even I would prefer WCS out there starting if it's the only way Joerger will stop starting Koufos, and he won't go small, especially in what already seems another developmental year

I think Casspi has supplanted Barnes
 
Barnes has never been a 12-15 minute guy. He's right where he always is.

BUT, the problem is that we are over reliant on him to consistently provide things he has only ever inconsistently provided. Always been an up and down player. Major rotation guy who can spark you, but never a night in night out rock. We need more rocks so Matt can get back to just being our wildcard.
charliebrown.jpg
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
care to share what was said?
Basically, in so many words, he had felt like he was entitled to more minutes, and the fact that he wasn't getting them was affecting his play... He appears to have made peace with that, and indicated that he has adjusted his mentality to be ready to play whenever, and if he doesn't get into a game, to try and not let it affect how he plays when he does get in.
 
Would it really hurt us if we gave some PT to Ben...or even Malachi??
If we're going to be losing to mediocre teams, why not let the young guys get some PT in?

On Barnes...for damn sakes. Why are we relying on him to be our 3rd best player again??
 
And I think he did with the freak lineup......as far as Afflalo and Koufos...I think it's a process. If you noticed in the second half when he called the early TO, he looked at some of the guys coming off the floor with his hands raised as if to say....well. That's when he pulled those guys.

I think it's a process with the vets out of respect possibly? Can't tell you about Ben. Only thing I can think of is he's going to get dealt in about 10 days when more guys can be moved on Dec. 15
I think about a 20 game sample of them handcapping us is enough to end the process to force them into being starters when they provide nothing with that group. Its like a challenge Joerger has for the finishing group to see how much of a hole they can get out of night in night out. All of the numbers point to us being better with less of koufus and aflalo yet Joerger has been stubborn about forcing it even after he himself said he had seen enough!

If they want to trade Ben they are tanking his value to make sure they nothing decent in return. When Ben sucked he play 30+ mins a night now that he shows he can hit some shots and has a groove he gets benched. This Organization is a freaking joke year in and year out.

I dont care about respect for vets starting and I doubt Cuz will sit there and say oh they respected scrub vets so ill resign even though we kept losing winnable games. Its all about wins! The respectable vets have had enough of a rope to prove themselves.
 
K

KingsFan80

Guest
Temple have been good for us. Barnes is okay, as long as we don't rely on him to play heavy minutes; he should be a 12-15 minute guy, instead of the 26 minute guy he has been. We don't really know what we have in Tolliver: he was lights out in the preseason, missed his first couple of shots of the regular season, and basically hasn't been given any burn since. Afflalo has been the only unqualified bad signing, to this point; there are at least three guys on the roster I'd rather see getting those minutes right now.
I would argue Tolliver is the worst. Guy is making $8 million to do nothing. How do I get a job like that?
 
K

KingsFan80

Guest
It's to the point where even I would prefer WCS out there starting if it's the only way Joerger will stop starting Koufos, and he won't go small, especially in what already seems another developmental year

I think Casspi has supplanted Barnes
While I am not a fan of WCS, and don't believe he will be anything besides a role player EVER, I do agree with you it is the point where you just put the young guys out there and let them get minutes. Unless Lord Vlade is going to pull magic and make a trade to improve this roster, we aren't making the playoffs. I would love to see Malachi and WCS starting.
 
K

KingsFan80

Guest
That's not evidence of a bad signing: Divac doesn't have any control over whether Joerger plays him or not.
Yeah but if someone isn't good enough to get minutes on this team, then they SUCK and should have never been signed in the first place, especially making that kind of money. If you need someone to sit in a seat on the bench why not re-sign Quincy Acy for a 1/4 of the price?

Joerger is looking for anyone who can play to step up right now. Affalo doesn't surprise me- I knew what we were getting-- and while I did expect him to be a little better, he is right where I thought he would be. Affalo is over the hill, Tolliver is a scrub, Barnes is a good player but getting too old, I like Temple because he plays hard but he isn't going to make or break a team.
 
While I am not a fan of WCS, and don't believe he will be anything besides a role player EVER, I do agree with you it is the point where you just put the young guys out there and let them get minutes. Unless Lord Vlade is going to pull magic and make a trade to improve this roster, we aren't making the playoffs. I would love to see Malachi and WCS starting.
I am sure if every team could draft only stars they would. But that is not the reality is it? This whole your either a superstar or a bust mentality some people have is asinine.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
While I am not a fan of WCS, and don't believe he will be anything besides a role player EVER...
Role players are massively underrated: Meyers Leonard is a role player. Steven Adams is a role player. Kyle O'Quinn is a role player. Contrary to many people's personal prejudices, "role player" is not semantically equivalent to "scrub."
 
K

KingsFan80

Guest
I am sure if every team could draft only stars they would. But that is not the reality is it? This whole your either a superstar or a bust mentality some people have is asinine.
When you take a top seven pick in the draft then ideally they should be a impact player at some point in their career.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
Yeah but if someone isn't good enough to get minutes on this team, then they SUCK and should have never been signed in the first place...
What is your evidence that "not getting minutes" is due to "not good enough to get minutes"? Afflalo is not good enough to get minutes, but he's getting them, any way. McLemore has certainly earned more minutes than he's getting.
 
K

KingsFan80

Guest
What is your evidence that "not getting minutes" is due to "not good enough to get minutes"? Afflalo is not good enough to get minutes, but he's getting them, any way. McLemore has certainly earned more minutes than he's getting.
If Joerger believed McLemore was better than Affalo do you honestly think he wouldn't play him?
 
When you take a top seven pick in the draft then ideally they should be a impact player at some point in their career.
And a player taken at 60 at the end of the second round will never be an All-Star yet that does not hold true does it. The number where a player is picked is not some concrete measure of worth or even expectation. A guideline? Sure.
 
K

KingsFan80

Guest
And a player taken at 60 at the end of the second round will never be an All-Star yet that does not hold true does it. The number where a player is picked is not some concrete measure of worth or even expectation. A guideline? Sure.
It is probability. Just like five star recruits vs three star recruits in college. There is a better chance a five star will be better than a three, so therefore teams like Kentucky take a five star. Probability is a number 7 pick has a better chance to be an all-star over a guy picked 60. How many times has the number 60 pick been an all-star?
 
For all we know Ben is already traded but the deal can't go through yet. Sucks not getting memo's from the front office but that is where we find ourselves, thankfully.
 
K

KingsFan80

Guest
Would you classify Kirk Hinrich as an "impact player"? How about Charlie Villanueva? Corey Brewer?
All three of those guys could be on the Kings right now and not have any impact whatsoever because we are not a good team. The Roster has no talent. I know Hinrich and Brewer both play on successful teams..no clue where Villaneva is
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
All three of those guys could be on the Kings right now and not have any impact whatsoever because we are not a good team. The Roster has no talent. I know Hinrich and Brewer both play on successful teams..no clue where Villaneva is
Again, that wasn't the question: would you classify those guys as "impact players," yes or no?
 
It is probability. Just like five star recruits vs three star recruits in college. There is a better chance a five star will be better than a three, so therefore teams like Kentucky take a five star. Probability is a number 7 pick is probably going to be better than 60 - I am not sure why I have to explain that
I am not sure why you feel you have to. My point is Willie was not taken because he screamed next superstar. He was what the team needed at the time he was picked, was coming from a dribble drive system to play in Karls dribble drive system.
 
K

KingsFan80

Guest
I am not sure why you feel you have to. My point is Willie was not taken because he screamed next superstar. He was what the team needed at the time he was picked, was coming from a dribble drive system to play in Karls dribble drive system.
I get that..but I am a UK fan, I watched WCS play a lot in college. I knew what we were getting. But that is besides the point -- I agree put him out there, put Malachi out there too, and leave Papa in Reno lol or trade him.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
Not at all...but I don't think they would be as good as they were if they had not been on a winning team
Okay, so were they decent players because they played on good teams, or were the teams they played on good because they were decent?

That's the rub, isn't it? Has Cauley-Stein's performance been a reflection of the team he's on, or has it been the other way around?
 
K

KingsFan80

Guest
Okay, so were they decent players because they played on good teams, or were the teams they played on good because they were decent?

That's the rub, isn't it? Has Cauley-Stein's performance been a reflection of the team he's on, or has it been the other way around?
I would honestly say it is a combo of the two. If WCS had been drafted by the Spurs, per se, he might be better than he is now. Because he would have been in a more stable environment, better players around him, etc. I am just saying he wasn't a great player at UK, and coming into an environment like this, around a losing team, he is going to struggle because we rely on him more because this team has no talent. It is like a guy who gets drafted by the Browns first pick, to play QB, gets beat to death and never wins then is out of the league in 4 years. If he gets drafted at 20-25 by a team like the Steelers, he might not get paid as much but the environment is better to be successful with a winning team.

Who knows? But I can guarantee you if Leonard had gone to the Kings he would not be as good as he is now. Would you disagree with that?