[Game] [VSL Game 4] Kings vs. Cavaliers. 7/16/2025 12:30 Pacific, 3:30 Eastern (ESPN 2)

lots of fans on bluesky railing on him for important things like his hairline and the arc on his shot today. I certainly don't think he is the missing piece of the puzzle to this team's future success but it sure feels to me that some folks have poisoned the well on the kid to the point they've got Kings fans rooting against him without actually doing a single thing wrong.

I think we've both been around long enough to know that it usually takes more for fans to turn on players so I just don't get it. Clearly they are blaming him for Fox and Brown, I'm afraid those were going to happen no matter what when Monte failed to get us wing help over his final two offseasons.

Yeah, there’s a clear anti-player agenda in play here. I think some of it comes from a faction of fans listening to certain local media members podcasts or whatever then adopting the same POV.

It’s just sad that there seemingly always has to be at least one or two players that draw the ire of fans no matter what they do or don’t do.

These fans dial 9-1 then just wait for what they believe to be the next poor game to dial the final 1.
 
Carter had some positives and negatives today. Overall I’d say he’s had a good summer league. He’s a 23 year old kid and this is pretty much his rookie year, there’s going to be some growing pains. The good thing is the Kings have team control over him and he’s a hard worker - he’ll get better with hard work.

Absolutely. He’s nowhere near a great player. But he isn’t a bad player or “bust” either.

He’s definitely shown enough to warrant some patience. I mean, how many players have we seen underachieve or take several years to develop? Carter didn’t even get to play in SL last season and wasn’t able to play til around the beginning of 2025.

I constantly see fans here covet players from other teams that took years to develop and/or were taken for granted by that teams fanbase. I very much feel that if Carter was on another team the fans here constantly hating on him would notice more of his positives than his negatives.
 
Yeah I thought Carter had some nice assists, throwing it over the defense a couple times, and some good defensive plays. On the other hand sometimes he drives under the basket and has nowhere to go. Overall I think he is promising and could take some backup minutes at both guard positions.
 
Yeah I thought Carter had some nice assists, throwing it over the defense a couple times, and some good defensive plays. On the other hand sometimes he drives under the basket and has nowhere to go. Overall I think he is promising and could take some backup minutes at both guard positions.
with Nique on the team it dosent really matter that carters not a pure pg. they fit well together.

kind of in shock from what im seeing from Clifford. i know its just SL but he looks absolutely complete as a player. wonder what happends when they develop him more?
 
It's not really planned. It's the end result of not getting separation from his defender.

I personally don’t think it’s a separation issue. He has blown past his man time and time again but then he doesn’t know what to do when he gets to the second line of defense. I don’t think he has attempted one floater in Summer league. He either needs to go hard at the basket and try to draw contact or perfect a floater. Maybe analytics consider that a bad shot now?
 
Or, in your case, don’t see what you don’t wanna to see. Because multiple others in this thread saw it.

Time to get your eyes checked.
I don't know what you are talking about.

The phrase "You see what you wanna see" can go both ways. How did you know I meant what I meant?

(Honestly I forgot even which side I was on upon further review now)
 
Yeah I thought Carter had some nice assists, throwing it over the defense a couple times, and some good defensive plays. On the other hand sometimes he drives under the basket and has nowhere to go. Overall I think he is promising and could take some backup minutes at both guard positions.
Carter’s problem is where does he get minutes.

Schroder, Clifford,
LaVine, Ellis, Monk

Those are our top 5 guards. Carter won’t get time to develop. Either he or Monk needs to be traded. If we can’t trade either it’s just a waste of assets. Not Perry’s fault. Clifford was a great pick in that spot. Carter not in his spot.
 
Carter is talented but he's raw. He lacks fundamental and discipline. For example, he doesn't box out and only does it when he feel like it. This demonstrate lack of discipline. He drove into the teeth of defense and got trapped and then turnover. This shows lack of polish in his game. He lazily make a long pass under pressure and turnover. This shows failing to read properly. At this point, I don't mind if Kings trade him.
 
Carter’s problem is where does he get minutes.

Schroder, Clifford,
LaVine, Ellis, Monk

Those are our top 5 guards. Carter won’t get time to develop. Either he or Monk needs to be traded. If we can’t trade either it’s just a waste of assets. Not Perry’s fault. Clifford was a great pick in that spot. Carter not in his spot.

Clifford isn’t getting minutes either and even with a monk trade we might pick up Westbrook
 
Raynaud damn near crossed his feet on his defensive slide. His defensive fundamentals are so bad. I think he will get a bunch of G League time playing the 4 but I think lots of room for improvement.
Yeah, it seems his offensive iq is as high as his defensive iq is low. Kinda like sabonis.
Now it makes sense why his college coaches didn't want him to go for blocks.
He wouldnt be able to be on the court defensively, if he tried and he was too valuable on offense for them.

I hope we have some good coaches that can infuse some defensive iq into him.
He seems like a clever guy, so there is a chance.
 
Carter’s problem is where does he get minutes.

Schroder, Clifford,
LaVine, Ellis, Monk

Those are our top 5 guards. Carter won’t get time to develop. Either he or Monk needs to be traded. If we can’t trade either it’s just a waste of assets. Not Perry’s fault. Clifford was a great pick in that spot. Carter not in his spot.

Clifford is going to take the backup 3 minutes this year. I think he works well with Carter too as they can share the creation duties. And on a team with Domas, you dont want or need a super ball dominant trad PG anyway
 
Fine. Where does he get minutes?
Well…he doesn’t…unless there is another move made. Have you seen people on this forum claim that he’ll get minutes if our roster remains as is? I haven’t but perhaps I’m wrong.

Look, it’s the middle of July. Training camp starts at the beginning of October. 2.5 months is A LOT of time. Let’s have the patience to wait and see what this roster actually looks like come training camp before we begin the criticisms.

I’ll personally be upset if we don’t make a move to clear a way for Carter to get some minutes, but I’m not there yet as I recognize that there is still a massive amount of time to make moves before training camp begins.
 
Nique is showing some real shot taking confidence out there. Reminds me a lot of DDR with his midrange game. Excited to see what we've got in him. He has a ton of tools and looks like an 8 year vet 90% of the time out there.

Carter didn't have a good game but he wound up with more points than shots taken, which is always a positive. Free throw stroke looks better. 3pt shot wasn't falling but did have a couple of the in and out variety.

I was worried about Maxime's rebounding coming out of college and it reared its ugly head yesterday. IJ's rebounding has always worried me as well. They got taken to the cleaners on the boards. Luckily IJ had a great offensive game to make up for it.

The bench guys are the reason why the Kings didn't lose this one. Stevens, Plowden and Kinsey (can't remember his name)? They all had solid efficient games and not only kept them from losing, but kept the point differential up as well.
 
Well…he doesn’t…unless there is another move made. Have you seen people on this forum claim that he’ll get minutes if our roster remains as is? I haven’t but perhaps I’m wrong.

Look, it’s the middle of July. Training camp starts at the beginning of October. 2.5 months is A LOT of time. Let’s have the patience to wait and see what this roster actually looks like come training camp before we begin the criticisms.

I’ll personally be upset if we don’t make a move to clear a way for Carter to get some minutes, but I’m not there yet as I recognize that there is still a massive amount of time to make moves before training camp begins.

Indeed. Reports seem to suggest that the Kings' front office is still working on further reshaping the roster, but Perry has already softened the ground for eventual fan disappointment, saying something to the effect of, "We're looking at everything, but we're pretty satisfied with the roster as-is for the time being." He knows he's going to get kicked in the teeth if no further moves are made this off-season, which is going to put a lot of pressure on him at the trade deadline next year.
 
Indeed. Reports seem to suggest that the Kings' front office is still working on further reshaping the roster, but Perry has already softened the ground for eventual fan disappointment, saying something to the effect of, "We're looking at everything, but we're pretty satisfied with the roster as-is for the time being." He knows he's going to get kicked in the teeth if no further moves are made this off-season, which is going to put a lot of pressure on him at the trade deadline next year.
The sad reality is teams are entering the season cautious about salary and paying good money to guys that create roster redundancies and we somehow managed to create a roster where 3 guys occupy our top 4 pay slots and effectively play the same position and "need" to start.

The landscape is bleak and perhaps the most sensical move would be Monk for PJ Washington but one or both sides have not pursued this. That's the kind of deal that I don't think either fanbase will get too worked up over even if it needs some minor sweetener.

Obviously anything that clears Deebo is ideal but I am not sure there will be takers until later in the season when teams have a player go down or realize they need a 4th quarter kick in the pants. So we're probably stuck with him for the foreseeable future too.

I can't really fault Perry for making trades that can't happen because Monte or Vivek somehow decided that this logjam was acceptable. It's pretty clear he's trying to get out of it but hamstrung by the new CBA structure causing teams to put a pause on all "middle class" player acquisitions. Monk's contract seemed like a bargain to most of us when it was signed as we all collectively held our breaths that he would take it.
 
The sad reality is teams are entering the season cautious about salary and paying good money to guys that create roster redundancies and we somehow managed to create a roster where 3 guys occupy our top 4 pay slots and effectively play the same position and "need" to start.

The landscape is bleak and perhaps the most sensical move would be Monk for PJ Washington but one or both sides have not pursued this. That's the kind of deal that I don't think either fanbase will get too worked up over even if it needs some minor sweetener.

Obviously anything that clears Deebo is ideal but I am not sure there will be takers until later in the season when teams have a player go down or realize they need a 4th quarter kick in the pants. So we're probably stuck with him for the foreseeable future too.

I can't really fault Perry for making trades that can't happen because Monte or Vivek somehow decided that this logjam was acceptable. It's pretty clear he's trying to get out of it but hamstrung by the new CBA structure causing teams to put a pause on all "middle class" player acquisitions. Monk's contract seemed like a bargain to most of us when it was signed as we all collectively held our breaths that he would take it.

Yeah, that's about the size of it. I still can't believe all parties looked at this version of the CBA and said, "Yep! Sign us up for exceedingly Byzantine cap management issues, crippling roster construction outcomes, and the utter obliteration of the NBA's middle-class!"
 
I personally don’t think it’s a separation issue. He has blown past his man time and time again but then he doesn’t know what to do when he gets to the second line of defense. I don’t think he has attempted one floater in Summer league. He either needs to go hard at the basket and try to draw contact or perfect a floater. Maybe analytics consider that a bad shot now?
He’ll figure it out as the game continues to slow down for him. Not saying he’s on the same level as Fox, but i remember it took Fox a couple seasons to develop a floater of some kind and look like he knew what he was doing in the painted area or in transition.
 
Yeah, that's about the size of it. I still can't believe all parties looked at this version of the CBA and said, "Yep! Sign us up for exceedingly Byzantine cap management issues, crippling roster construction outcomes, and the utter obliteration of the NBA's middle-class!"
Apparently it was a response to Ballmer but why the players accepted it is beyond me. It was obvious on first read it was bad all around just from the perspective of keeping homegrown (draft) talent on standard 2nd contracts. On the other hand it makes it clear that not every player who isn't a bust is a max player, which never sat well with me either.
 
Indeed. Reports seem to suggest that the Kings' front office is still working on further reshaping the roster, but Perry has already softened the ground for eventual fan disappointment, saying something to the effect of, "We're looking at everything, but we're pretty satisfied with the roster as-is for the time being." He knows he's going to get kicked in the teeth if no further moves are made this off-season, which is going to put a lot of pressure on him at the trade deadline next year.
I have said repeatedly it is really really hard to trade small for big. It’s why you don’t draft a Carter or Davion in the lottery. Both were horrendous picks and you can see why. The Warriors see little value in a cost Controlled Carter. The team can’t give Monk away.

Anyone who says draft them early as best player available and we will figure it out later is not paying attention.
* Drafting Davion
* Drafting Carter
* Trading Fox for LaVine

All really bad moves that set this franchise back in a significant way.
 
The sad reality is teams are entering the season cautious about salary and paying good money to guys that create roster redundancies and we somehow managed to create a roster where 3 guys occupy our top 4 pay slots and effectively play the same position and "need" to start.
That is not quite accurate. The top six salaries for next year are, in order, for LaVine, Sabonis, DeRozan, Monk, Schröder, and Murray. No one else currently on the team will make over $10,000 this coming season. Of those six, the redundancies are at small forward (Murray, DeRozan) and shooting guard (LaVine, Monk). And Keegan, of course, plays out of position at power forward.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/sacramento-kings/cap

Keon Ellis makes an insane $2,301,587. According to the footnote, he will be eligible for an extension on February 9.
 
That is not quite accurate. The top six salaries for next year are, in order, for LaVine, Sabonis, DeRozan, Monk, Schröder, and Murray. No one else currently on the team will make over $10,000 this coming season. Of those six, the redundancies are at small forward (Murray, DeRozan) and shooting guard (LaVine, Monk). And Keegan, of course, plays out of position at power forward.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/sacramento-kings/cap

Keon Ellis makes an insane $2,301,587. According to the footnote, he will be eligible for an extension on February 9.
The 3 of 4 players I was talking about are Monk, LaVine, DeRozan. I understand that in the modern game Deebo is slotted at the 3 but the reality is he doesn't play defense and occupies a spot that might be better left to Keegan Murray. The fact that all 3 of these guys are redundant and all want to start is a major issue. We should have never brought LaVine in while both Monk and Deebo were still here.
 
Carter’s problem is where does he get minutes.

Schroder, Clifford,
LaVine, Ellis, Monk

Those are our top 5 guards. Carter won’t get time to develop. Either he or Monk needs to be traded. If we can’t trade either it’s just a waste of assets. Not Perry’s fault. Clifford was a great pick in that spot. Carter not in his spot.

If the Kings think this is a Carter problem, or a youth problem then the problem is STILL the Kings. You don't trade a young rookie controlled contract so a player like Monk can get time or ease rotation crunches. The Kings are going with the vets to start the year most likely, but who knows what the deadline looks like. If it's rebuild then trading a 2nd year lottery pick so Monk can get time or so the crunch looks better on paper means this franchise is likely still doomed and stupidity reigns. Carter has years left on his deal so there is no rush. Perry said he's looking at this as a building over time? Well, prove it bud.
 
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