[Game] 38/82: Kings @ Celtics 10 JAN 2025, 4:30pm PT/7:30pm ET

[kingsfan101]

Not enough room in the backcourt to play all those guys. If you are going to keep drafting guards you have to be willing to trade your best ones because trading small for big is hard.

I think this is a very reasonable take. Lot of fans support picking the BPA in the draft. Well, if most of your picks end up playing the same position, you have to trade some to clear the logjam and balance the roster.

Monte has shown that he understands this and has the balls to do it. Trading Hali would have been extremely tough for him, given his play, his desire to be in Sacramento, his personality, the love we got for once for drafting him, but most of all, since he was Monte's first pick. Yet he did it when the opportunity presented itself. In hindsight it was the right move.

We have a similar situation again. This time, trading Fox makes the most sense. Keon and Devin are low priced high value assets. Fox is also likely to get the best haul. Plus, if we focus on the future, instead of the immediate, the trade can help us build a long term contender while keeping the costs reasonable.

The trouble is that we don't know if Kings have indicated that they are open to trading Fox (there are whisperings, but might just be some media types blowing some smoke). Nor do we have any insights into what offers we are getting, if so. Unless there is an offer which makes lot of sense, it's better to wait till draft day.

 

[NewArena]

One thing you have that could be a Blessing in disguise for us, is Fox sitting back and getting a front row seat and reminder of how much talent we have right here in sac. He will come back trusting his teammates even more, not wanting to mess with this momentum. I believe that he’s a team player and I’m excited to see him continue to play under coach DC

 

[sactowndog]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1878157721188626853

Love Carter’s defense but not sure how that shows his scalability? Brown rises up over him, no hand in the face, Brown gets an open look but misses the shot.

 

[BosnianDiehard2.0]

Christie deserves credit and Monte deserves some apologies. Goes to show this roster was significantly better than everyone gave him credit for and a bunch of people wanted his head on a stick. Christie is maximizing that talent now, which is what the job of a head coach should be.

Monte definitely put together a roster better than 13-19, but there are still some weaknesses to be addressed if we want to make noise in the Playoffs. Desperately need another wing and a center could be nice.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

The roster absolutely has some flaws but it sucks that it's going to either be evaluated 20 games into Doug's tenure or have to wait 50 because whatever we were doing the last season and a half broke all the promise of the OG Beam Team.

 

[midtowner]

Love Carter’s defense but not sure how that shows his scalability? Brown rises up over him, no hand in the face, Brown gets an open look but misses the shot.

Look at where Brown gets the ball. He tries to bully DC to receive the ball deep in the post. DC stand his ground at the elbow - forcing Brown to relocate. Sure - dudes will be able to shoot over him, but not where they want to be on the floor and not comfortably because they will be bodied up.

 

[SacTownKid]

When he’s locked in he’s a dog and I’d expect he would be in close games

Fox is 50/50 on being locked in. If you are an athlete and strong, you CAN play defense but will you? Players like Ellis and Carter have it ingrained into their DNA. I mean, Carter in a lot of ways is largely physical tools which is the rarest when in combination with some offensive talent and desire to play defense.

 

[hrdboild]

Love Carter’s defense but not sure how that shows his scalability? Brown rises up over him, no hand in the face, Brown gets an open look but misses the shot.

At 6'6" and 225lbs, Jaylen Brown is one of the stronger wing players in the league. As Boston starts to run their play, Jaylen thinks he has a mis-match and tries to back Carter into the paint to set up a post-up opportunity. Carter is able to hold his ground and Brown is 2 steps outside of the paint when he catches the ball. Jaylen immediately turns to drive baseline but Carter slides his feet and seals off his path to the basket so Jaylen pulls up to shoot the mid-range instead. This looks like a makeable shot but he double-clutches and shoots on the way down. That indicates to me that he was expecting to draw a foul here. Carter chooses to keep his arms back which catches Jaylen by surprise and allows no opportunity for Jaylen to create a shooting foul. Carter's strength, quick instincts, and intelligence were all on display here.

 

[SacTownKid]

Look at where Brown gets the ball. He tries to bully DC to receive the ball deep in the post. DC stand his ground at the elbow - forcing Brown to relocate. Sure - dudes will be able to shoot over him, but not where they want to be on the floor and not comfortably because they will be bodied up.

Yeah, Carter got under him, throwing Brown off entirely. Brown tried to quick shoot an off balance shot. The other play Brown clearly hooked Carter and Carter got the rookie treatment from the refs. And we already saw Carter's ability to contest. He even already blocked a jumper on a SF like Robinson. Strength, length, lateral mobility, and a low center of gravity is a lethal combination on defense. That's Artest kind of stuff.

 

[SacTownKid]

Love Carter’s defense but not sure how that shows his scalability? Brown rises up over him, no hand in the face, Brown gets an open look but misses the shot.

Did you see what Brown did to Monk and Ellis? Brown is one of the more physically imposing wings in the entire league and he moved Carter about a foot at best to the rim. People can't forget, this is a 22 year old rookie who is barely 4 games back in after 9 months off that hasn't even really hit the gym yet or has a detailed scouting report on players. Also, this was the first time Doug really tested out that "scalability". What you're looking for there is the ability to not get pounded by a bigger player. Test passed.

 

[Tetsujin]

But his standing reach!

 

[Telemachus]

But his standing reach!

I know you are joking, but think I've said this before. He had a shoulder injury when he did the combine. Anyone who has injured their shoulder knows you can't lift your arm straight up. And I doubt they measure the highest hand. That could easily cost him 2 or 3 inches in standing reach.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

At 6'6" and 225lbs, Jaylen Brown is one of the stronger wing players in the league. As Boston starts to run their play, Jaylen thinks he has a mis-match and tries to back Carter into the paint to set up a post-up opportunity. Carter is able to hold his ground and Brown is 2 steps outside of the paint when he catches the ball. Jaylen immediately turns to drive baseline but Carter slides his feet and seals off his path to the basket so Jaylen pulls up to shoot the mid-range instead. This looks like a makeable shot but he double-clutches and shoots on the way down. That indicates to me that he was expecting to draw a foul here. Carter chooses to keep his arms back which catches Jaylen by surprise and allows no opportunity for Jaylen to create a shooting foul. Carter's strength, quick instincts, and intelligence were all on display here.

I thought the most impressive part of this sequence was Carter not being baited into the cheap foul. He's a friggin rookie and aware he's not going to be given any leeway for marginal contact and still makes the play.

 

[The_Jamal]

Love Carter’s defense but not sure how that shows his scalability? Brown rises up over him, no hand in the face, Brown gets an open look but misses the shot.

Dude, you truly just see what you want to see huh? Carter took away his space, sped him up and forced him to take an awkward mid-range. You don't have to do "this" just because you crap on the pick over and over.

Let's put it this way, I'd feel very confident Jaylen Brown would have a bad game if you just multiplied that shot 20 times in a game. Great offensive players, like Brown, can make that shot, but it's far from wide open.

 

[sactowndog]

Look at where Brown gets the ball. He tries to bully DC to receive the ball deep in the post. DC stand his ground at the elbow - forcing Brown to relocate. Sure - dudes will be able to shoot over him, but not where they want to be on the floor and not comfortably because they will be bodied up.

I agree Carter won’t be bullied but longer players shooting over the top will be a problem. Now conversely his ability to stop dribble penetration is every bit as elite as Davion. Just to be clear I’m only questioning is ability to be a stopper on longer players. I’m not questioning his ability to be a top perimeter defender against back court players. I look forward to seeing him against SGA and Ja.

 

[sactowndog]

Dude, you truly just see what you want to see huh? Carter took away his space, sped him up and forced him to take an awkward mid-range. You don't have to do "this" just because you crap on the pick over and over.

Let's put it this way, I'd feel very confident Jaylen Brown would have a bad game if you just multiplied that shot 20 times in a game. Great offensive players, like Brown, can make that shot, but it's far from wide open.

No I see what has worried me about Carter’s defense against longer players. He has fouled 3 point shooters by leaving his feet twice in the few games he has played and Brown had a clear look at the basket.

I don’t buy he can regularly guard NBA 3’s. Doesn’t mean I don’t like his defense. I just don’t think he solves are problem of length on the wing.

 

[sactowndog]

I know you are joking, but think I've said this before. He had a shoulder injury when he did the combine. Anyone who has injured their shoulder knows you can't lift your arm straight up. And I doubt they measure the highest hand. That could easily cost him 2 or 3 inches in standing reach.

Possible

 

[sactowndog]

At 6'6" and 225lbs, Jaylen Brown is one of the stronger wing players in the league. As Boston starts to run their play, Jaylen thinks he has a mis-match and tries to back Carter into the paint to set up a post-up opportunity. Carter is able to hold his ground and Brown is 2 steps outside of the paint when he catches the ball. Jaylen immediately turns to drive baseline but Carter slides his feet and seals off his path to the basket so Jaylen pulls up to shoot the mid-range instead. This looks like a makeable shot but he double-clutches and shoots on the way down. That indicates to me that he was expecting to draw a foul here. Carter chooses to keep his arms back which catches Jaylen by surprise and allows no opportunity for Jaylen to create a shooting foul. Carter's strength, quick instincts, and intelligence were all on display here.

I’m not arguing any of those qualities. And I believe if switched onto a big he will use those to not be a mark on a switch.

but that point is different than having the length to be the primary match-up which I believe is what was insinuated.

 

[sono]

The game was so fun I watched it again.

Look at this shooting to begin the tied 4th quarter:

Carter - two consecutive 3 point bombs to start the barrage. He's playing the Champions in Boston, the game is tied going into the 4th qtr and he's jacking it up like he's playing at the local YMCA. This kid has some balls.

Sabonis - he continues to make big 3 point shots at important times in the game. These 3 point shots are like 4 point shots because it opens up the entire floor for everyone else. Every time he makes these I think it's a Sabonis 4-point play.

Murray - 2 bombs. No hesitation anymore. He has his hands ready to catch and shoot and he *wants* the ball. The "smile" is back.

DDR - had 2 bombs in the 4th, which is not what you normally expect in the DDR game, but I'm not complaining.

The ONLY miss from the 3-point line in the entire 4th quarter was Carter's heat check. We'll forgive him this one time.

He plays like a seasoned vet with poise and patience. The kid can be closer, got ice in his veins.

 

[sactowndog]

I thought the most impressive part of this sequence was Carter not being baited into the cheap foul. He's a friggin rookie and aware he's not going to be given any leeway for marginal contact and still makes the play.

that I would agree with whole heartedly

 

[sono]

According to the analysts, it was Boston's worst loss of the season.

 

[kingsboi]

Second. But it is the first win in Boston since 2007 when fans were present.

they won during the asterisk season?

 

[Section 101]

they won during the asterisk season?

The season after when no fans were in the arena.

 

[reptilexcq2]

I agree Carter won’t be bullied but longer players shooting over the top will be a problem. Now conversely his ability to stop dribble penetration is every bit as elite as Davion. Just to be clear I’m only questioning is ability to be a stopper on longer players. I’m not questioning his ability to be a top perimeter defender against back court players. I look forward to seeing him against SGA and Ja.

Nah, Davion is much shorter than Carter. Carter can jump and block shots. Davion can't. I bet on Carter against taller players any day.

 

[reptilexcq2]

If Kings want to trade Fox, they should wait and trade a star for a star in return. Wait until the timing is right, until summer if you have to. Maybe, Anthony from Minnesota want out because the Wolves suck...or a star on another team want out....or we could get Lauri. I think both players fit the team need. You don't want to trade a star caliber player for some changes and drafts...it wastes the investment of what you have created.

 

[sactowndog]

Nah, Davion is much shorter than Carter. Carter can jump and block shots. Davion can't. I bet on Carter against taller players any day.

my point on Carter re Davion is he can stop dribble penetration.

as far as jumping and blocking shots, Carter has a tendency to do that on closeouts and has already fouled three point shooters twice in 3 games. As the scouting report gets built on him I’m guessing teams will use that tendency against him more and more.

 

[chief bromden]

my point on Carter re Davion is he can stop dribble penetration.

as far as jumping and blocking shots, Carter has a tendency to do that on closeouts and has already fouled three point shooters twice in 3 games. As the scouting report gets built on him I’m guessing teams will use that tendency against him more and more.

Would you rather have OMax or Devin Carter on this current Kings team?

 

[sactowndog]

Would you rather have OMax or Devin Carter on this current Kings team?

not the same draft class. And you are missing the point.

if your are going to repeatedly draft BPA available especially 6’3” and under you better be ready to trade your best one for a wing. 6’8” guys are scarce and don’t come up in free agency often and if they do Sacramento is at the bottom of the pile.

For the same reason everyone but the Kings reaches for long wings in the draft …. Nobody is trading an equally skilled 6’8” wing for an equally skilled 6’3” player, simply because of scarcity and value. Despite half this board thinking otherwise it will never happen unless that player has significant other questions like a Zion.

 

[chief bromden]

not the same draft class. And you are missing the point.

if your are going to repeatedly draft BPA available especially 6’3” and under you better be ready to trade your best one for a wing. 6’8” guys are scarce and don’t come up in free agency often and if they do Sacramento is at the bottom of the pile.

For the same reason everyone but the Kings reaches for long wings in the draft …. Nobody is trading an equally skilled 6’8” wing for an equally skilled 6’3” player, simply because of scarcity and value. Despite half this board thinking otherwise it will never happen unless that player has significant other questions like a Zion.

I'm not missing any point. I was asking because I'm curious how you rate the two at this current moment.

Agreed it's difficult to trade small for big.

 

[sactowndog]

I'm not missing any point. I was asking because I'm curious how you rate the two at this current moment.

Agreed it's difficult to trade small for big.

clearly Carter is the better player as he should be drafted 12th versus 24th ( I might be off on the slots).

it seems only in Monte’s head (and maybe this board) can you trade 6’3” skilled for 6’8” equally skilled. I’m not even sure we could get Smith from Houston for Fox. Which is why we are 3 years past the horrific Davion pick and we are still light in the Front Court.