Kings/GS Vegas Summer League

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#91
We have great passing big men in Hawes,JT and Miller so Douby at PG is not as big a deal as people are making it out to be. Give him time in a structured system and his passing IQ can improve anyways.
ARRRRGH. Douby will never, never, never, never, never, be a point guard. Get it out of your system. I'am so sick of people trying to make him into something he will never be. Yeah, we have very good passing big men, who would be worthless with Douby on the floor with them, because you see, in order to pass the ball, you have to HAVE THE BALL. And with Douby out there at the point, they would never see the ball.

Excuse me, I'm going to go throw up.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#92
Last year we were hoping that Spencer Hawes with his skills might become a Vlade one day or even a Brad in the sense of a solid starting center - he still might. But, Jason Thompson - good lord!! This guy has superstar potential written all over him. He might not become one, but Spencer will never be in that stratosphere. At this point, JT starts at PF for the Kings when the season opens without question. What a find and all the talk leading up to that #12 pick was how Randolph looked like a potential superstar - NOT!
You know, I think Randoff is going to be OK. He's lucky that he was drafted by the Warriors, because the style of game they play makes it easier for him to adapt. He will, in my opinion, never be a PF. But I could see him giving other SF's some trouble in a couple of years.

I don't know about Thompson becoming a superstar. I hope so. That would be us getting lucky for once. I do think he will be a pretty darn good player. He has some things he needs to work on, and I'm sure he's been told what they are. The nice thing about being a pro player, is that you have all the time in the world to practice and get better. As I stated in another post, I think a return to Pete Newell's big man camp would help him a lot.
 
#93
ARRRRGH. Douby will never, never, never, never, never, be a point guard. Get it out of your system. I'am so sick of people trying to make him into something he will never be. Yeah, we have very good passing big men, who would be worthless with Douby on the floor with them, because you see, in order to pass the ball, you have to HAVE THE BALL. And with Douby out there at the point, they would never see the ball.

Excuse me, I'm going to go throw up.

Douby posted up Hawes multiple times tonight... Actually every time I saw Hawes call for it and douby had it.. Q gave it up.
Im not trying to make him into somehting he'll never be. I realize hes not going to be a true PG like Sean Singletary, but its not out of the question for him to develop better passing awareness and dish out to the open man more often once he gets comfortable in a structured system and learns the teams sets.. He'll never be a true creator for others, I've come to peace with that but he can be a great scorer that makes good passes when they are supposed to be made. He has the handles and slashing ability to get into the lane and suck in the defense.. So the next step is just look up and around for teammates and not always at the rim.. Its not that hard and i believe Q has it in him he just needs some tuning.

The nice thing about being a pro player, is that you have all the time in the world to practice and get better.
You said it right there ^
 
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#94
Spoken ironically, but the important thing to remember here -- this likely does not translate. And by that I mean that Quincy is just back to playing like he did in college, take every shot etc.. He can play that role against inferior competition. He can NEVER play that role against the big boys. And hence, sure, he can do the put up big numbers on a bad (in this case a summer league) team bit, but that is little translation to how he has to play in the NBA. He will never be a #1 option in the NBA. Is never going to just get the ball whenever he wants it, unless he plays for a truly awful team. So proving that he can score in that situation isn't really proving much.
He is our Mike James but worse
 
#95
Douby isn't a point guard. Douby isn't a combo guard. Douby isn't a scoring point guard. Douby is a SHOOTING GUARD. It would only hurt this team if Douby were the full time backup PG. He might be the second best scorer on the team in your eyes (which he hasn't come close to proving) but he plays behind the best scorer on the team who takes 40 of the 48 minutes a night. So I am all for giving Douby 8 minutes a game and let him shoot all he wants. Just please don;t think for one second hes anything other than an undersized SG because that would be like me calling Brad Miller a SF since he can shoot a 3pt shot.
 
#96
Maybe Douby can become the next Eddie House or even a bit better. I just don't see how he gets much beyond House-type talent level which is decent if that's all he has. He might become a solid roll player, part of some new bench mob. But the bottom line is, House is better right now because his seasoned NBA skills are that of a little combo guard who CAN run the point. Douby CANNOT run the point and shows ZERO signs so far of ever getting it down. I'm hoping he improves his overall game this NBA season (discounting whatever scoring outbursts he puts up in Vegas) or he simply is going to be on a constant bubble to stay in the league.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#97
Douby posted up Hawes multiple times tonight... Actually every time I saw Hawes call for it and douby had it.. Q gave it up.
Im not trying to make him into somehting he'll never be. I realize hes not going to be a true PG like Sean Singletary, but its not out of the question for him to develop better passing awareness and dish out to the open man more often once he gets comfortable in a structured system and learns the teams sets.. He'll never be a true creator for others, I've come to peace with that but he can be a great scorer that makes good passes when they are supposed to be made. He has the handles and slashing ability to get into the lane and suck in the defense.. So the next step is just look up and around for teammates and not always at the rim.. Its not that hard and i believe Q has it in him he just needs some tuning.

You and I will never come to agreement, because the style of basketball I like, is a style that Douby simply doesn't fit into. I will be blunt. I despise players that become black holes on a team. It was one of my main gripes with Ron, I'm going to save the world, Artest. I'm having the same problem with Douby, and at times I have a problem with Salmons. I like teams that space the floor and pass the ball. They create something called assists. Something the Kings severally lacked last year.

You can usually look at two stats at the end of a game, and 99% of the time, you can tell who won the game without looking at the score. Assists and rebounds. Guess what?? The Kings stunk in both departments last year. I do not see Douby doing anything to change that situation. He gets no assists and doesn't rebound. Say what you want about Bobby Jackson, but the guy could rebound for a little guy.

I watched one play tonight, that was mentioned earlier, where Hawes was wide open under the basket and Douby ignored him. There was another play in the fourth quarter where a steal was deflected to Douby. He had Thompson way out in front of him on the break with no one between Thompson and the basket, and guess what? Big surprise, he ignored Thompson and took it to the basket himself. I, personally have no use for him, or any other player that becomes selfish with the ball. And don't give me this, he kept us in the game crap. How do you know? Maybe someone else might have scored if given a chance.

Now I will try and calm down. This just happens to be one subject I have a passion for. But, to be fair, I would not be shocked if the coaching staff told Douby to shoot, and to shoot often. Could be that their show casing him for a possible trade. At least I hope so, because I honestly don't think he has a place on this team.

As a final thought. I try my best not to fall in love with a player. The reason being, it makes it difficult to be objective about that player. Its hard sometimes. I mean, who couldn't love Vlade. But you just can't love a player so much that it blurr's your ability to make a realistic judgement on that players performance. By the same token, you can't dislike a player so much that it distorts your view.

As much as I disliked a lot of the things that Douby did tonight, I will try and wipe the slate clean for the next game. And if he performs better in the areas that I've mentioned, I will give him credit for it. Bear in mind, that all that you have read in this post is my opinion. That doesn't make it fact. So take it for what its worth.
 
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#98
Pretty good game overall. JT looked very very good. Only problem I see with him is that he tends to disappear at times, especially in the first half of this game. I think he needs to be a little more assertive. Douby looked good offensively and he also came away with a couple steals and a block or two. He has the opposite problem of JT, he is too aggresive, I worry that if he ever becomes a good player he is going to be an absolute black hole. I don't think he has met a shot he didn't like. He tried to show some passing skills, but he failed miserably. I just can't see him ever becoming a point guard. Spencer Hawes looked bad again. For someone with good hands he sure does fumble a lot of rebound attempts, actually that goes for the whole team. It seemed to me like his shot around the basket was very very flat with little to no rotation on his hooks, put backs, etc... They almost look like knuckleballs that just bounce around the rim. Singletary looks good passing the ball, as he almost always puts the ball perfectly where his teammates want it, unfortunately right now he is an offensive liability. He really needs to look for his own shot more. Sheldon Williams played pretty well I though. Everyone needs to lower expectations for him, I don't know if he will ever be a starter in the league but he can be a good big off the bench to give you maybe 10-15 minutes a game. He rebounds well, plays good defense inside and has a good inside game provided he gets the ball very deep. He struggles with the double team and he struggles when he gets the ball too far outside. He should be getting most of his points on hussle plays, put backs, and dunks.
 
#99
Pretty good game overall. JT looked very very good. Only problem I see with him is that he tends to disappear at times, especially in the first half of this game. I think he needs to be a little more assertive. Douby looked good offensively and he also came away with a couple steals and a block or two. He has the opposite problem of JT, he is too aggresive, I worry that if he ever becomes a good player he is going to be an absolute black hole. I don't think he has met a shot he didn't like. He tried to show some passing skills, but he failed miserably. I just can't see him ever becoming a point guard. Spencer Hawes looked bad again. For someone with good hands he sure does fumble a lot of rebound attempts, actually that goes for the whole team. It seemed to me like his shot around the basket was very very flat with little to no rotation on his hooks, put backs, etc... They almost look like knuckleballs that just bounce around the rim. Singletary looks good passing the ball, as he almost always puts the ball perfectly where his teammates want it, unfortunately right now he is an offensive liability. He really needs to look for his own shot more. Sheldon Williams played pretty well I though. Everyone needs to lower expectations for him, I don't know if he will ever be a starter in the league but he can be a good big off the bench to give you maybe 10-15 minutes a game. He rebounds well, plays good defense inside and has a good inside game provided he gets the ball very deep. He struggles with the double team and he struggles when he gets the ball too far outside. He should be getting most of his points on hussle plays, put backs, and dunks.
I agree. He should be pulled out of the game immediately when he even thinks about doing something outside the realm of those options.
 
I've been very impressed with Thompson's game, his guard skills, quickness, and activity on the boards have all been plusses. However his footwork and post moves need a lot of work IMO, he needs a coach to work with him on that; I wish Vlade was on staff.
 
While I'm not disagreeing with the view that Douby does not possess pg skills or vision, I would like to point out that the game was summer league and Q was scoring a lot, which maybe led to his apparent "selfishness" in the cases where someone else was open. Of course there's still a line between wanting to score yourself and being plain stupid.
 

Entity

Hall of Famer
Douby would always score 30+ points even in the NBA if he were the #1 option on a team. The problem is if Douby is your #1 option you.......well honestly you suck.
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
I'm with everyone who says he could be a good scoring option off the bench, and nothing more.

Douby and Garcia is a second unit who could put some points on the board.

Maybe he'll shine in 15 mpg, and then be a trade throw in haha (Artest/Douby may make taking Thomas as well an easier pill to swallow).
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Pretty good game overall. JT looked very very good. Only problem I see with him is that he tends to disappear at times, especially in the first half of this game. I think he needs to be a little more assertive. Douby looked good offensively and he also came away with a couple steals and a block or two. He has the opposite problem of JT, he is too aggresive, I worry that if he ever becomes a good player he is going to be an absolute black hole. I don't think he has met a shot he didn't like. He tried to show some passing skills, but he failed miserably. I just can't see him ever becoming a point guard. Spencer Hawes looked bad again. For someone with good hands he sure does fumble a lot of rebound attempts, actually that goes for the whole team. It seemed to me like his shot around the basket was very very flat with little to no rotation on his hooks, put backs, etc... They almost look like knuckleballs that just bounce around the rim. Singletary looks good passing the ball, as he almost always puts the ball perfectly where his teammates want it, unfortunately right now he is an offensive liability. He really needs to look for his own shot more. Sheldon Williams played pretty well I though. Everyone needs to lower expectations for him, I don't know if he will ever be a starter in the league but he can be a good big off the bench to give you maybe 10-15 minutes a game. He rebounds well, plays good defense inside and has a good inside game provided he gets the ball very deep. He struggles with the double team and he struggles when he gets the ball too far outside. He should be getting most of his points on hussle plays, put backs, and dunks.
J. Thompson played 25 minutes. He was 7 out of 11 shots from the floor and had 10 rebounds. Personally, I hope he disappears like that every night. I agree with an earlier post, that Thompson just seems to let the game come to him, and doesn't force things as much as you might think a rookie would.

Douby played 33 minutes and was 14 out of 21 from the floor. Not bad so far. Unlike Thompson, he did not let the game come to him, and took every opportunity to score. In the regular season, he wouldn't get those minutes and he wouldn't be the focal pt of the offense. So it remains to be seen how he responds to a differnent scenaro. The down side of his game is that in those 33 minutes, he had 1 assist and 4 turnovers, to go along with no rebounds. Even Spud Webb would grap 3 or 4 rebounds in 33 minutes. His problem is, at this point of his career, he's too one dimensional. His plusses do not outweigh his minuses, and thats not good.
 
Spoken ironically, but the important thing to remember here -- this likely does not translate. And by that I mean that Quincy is just back to playing like he did in college, take every shot etc.. He can play that role against inferior competition. He can NEVER play that role against the big boys. And hence, sure, he can do the put up big numbers on a bad (in this case a summer league) team bit, but that is little translation to how he has to play in the NBA. He will never be a #1 option in the NBA. Is never going to just get the ball whenever he wants it, unless he plays for a truly awful team. So proving that he can score in that situation isn't really proving much.

This is spot on. Almost the flipside of my post yesterday saying don't just look at JT's stats since he is the third option on this team while some other rookies get to dominate the ball much more. While it's better to see Douby score than not be able to score, we haven't seen if he can confidently knock down spot up 3 pointers and his D has looked pretty mediocre. I don't have any problem with the fact that Douby will never be a true PG, but if he ever wants to be an actual rotation player, he needs to be able to score without dominating the ball and play good D.
 
J. Thompson played 25 minutes. He was 7 out of 11 shots from the floor and had 10 rebounds. Personally, I hope he disappears like that every night. I agree with an earlier post, that Thompson just seems to let the game come to him, and doesn't force things as much as you might think a rookie would.

I do like that he doesn't force things, but I'd still like to see a little more aggressiveness out of him. My observation about him disappearing was mainly for the first half of this game, and parts of the last two. The way he played in the second half (where he got most of his points) was perfect.
 
A

AriesMar27

Guest
douby is a waste... we'd be well on our way towards a full rebuild if rondo, farmar or sergio had been drafted instead of douby... when he becomes a rfa we should just let him go....

he'll never become a useful player on this team unless he grows 3 or 4 inches this summer...
 
While I'm not disagreeing with the view that Douby does not possess pg skills or vision, I would like to point out that the game was summer league and Q was scoring a lot, which maybe led to his apparent "selfishness" in the cases where someone else was open. Of course there's still a line between wanting to score yourself and being plain stupid.
Did you watch the game? He made about 3-4 absolutely terrible passes the few times he did try to set up teammates. He just doesn't have the court vision or passing skills that you need from a PG. Even when he isn't being selfish and trying to get teammates involved he does a poor job.
 
douby is a waste... we'd be well on our way towards a full rebuild if rondo, farmar or sergio had been drafted instead of douby... when he becomes a rfa we should just let him go....
...
I don't know that those 3 put us well on our way to a rebuild. Rondo certainly has the most upside and is the guy I wanted. Still, he is very raw and far from the star player we need. His weaknesses were largely masked playing with 3 superstars this year. Farmar is nice asset, but will never be a star or anything close to it. And Sergio, I have never understood some people's obsession with him. He has shown less than Douby has and his defence would make you nostalgic for Jason Williams' defending the point.
 
Pretty good game overall. JT looked very very good. Only problem I see with him is that he tends to disappear at times, especially in the first half of this game. I think he needs to be a little more assertive. Douby looked good offensively and he also came away with a couple steals and a block or two. He has the opposite problem of JT, he is too aggresive, I worry that if he ever becomes a good player he is going to be an absolute black hole. I don't think he has met a shot he didn't like. He tried to show some passing skills, but he failed miserably. I just can't see him ever becoming a point guard. Spencer Hawes looked bad again. For someone with good hands he sure does fumble a lot of rebound attempts, actually that goes for the whole team. It seemed to me like his shot around the basket was very very flat with little to no rotation on his hooks, put backs, etc... They almost look like knuckleballs that just bounce around the rim. Singletary looks good passing the ball, as he almost always puts the ball perfectly where his teammates want it, unfortunately right now he is an offensive liability. He really needs to look for his own shot more. Sheldon Williams played pretty well I though. Everyone needs to lower expectations for him, I don't know if he will ever be a starter in the league but he can be a good big off the bench to give you maybe 10-15 minutes a game. He rebounds well, plays good defense inside and has a good inside game provided he gets the ball very deep. He struggles with the double team and he struggles when he gets the ball too far outside. He should be getting most of his points on hussle plays, put backs, and dunks.

The reason he disappeared is because the Kings have a black hole that they are letting bring the ball up the court. It's hard to be assertive when Douby takes most of the shots. You notice when we have Singletary taking the ball up you have more people involved in the offense.
 
I do like that he doesn't force things, but I'd still like to see a little more aggressiveness out of him. My observation about him disappearing was mainly for the first half of this game, and parts of the last two. The way he played in the second half (where he got most of his points) was perfect.
I know I just quoted you, but remember when Douby had about 25 points or something in the first half right? I think he tool about 60% of the shots for the Kings in the first half. Anytime you have a guy that's bringing the ball up the court not really passing to anyone you will tend to have the 4 others "disappear".
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I don't want to get into a, lets hammer Douby to death thing, but to put it in prespective, how would everyone have felt if Singletery had shot the ball every time it touched his hands. As it is, some are complaining that their disappointed in him because he didn't score enough.

Well, I've seen him play in college, so I know he can score. I thought it was refreshing to see a player stay within himself and try to do the little things needed to be done to win. Most rookie's would try to do something spectacular to draw attention. I think he's made the team as the backup. And, I think he'll be fine. There might be certain match ups where it would be difficult for him, but we always have Cisco or Salmons that can fill in.

The only problem I can forsee, is if Beno were to go down with an injury for any length of time. Hey, there's always the waiver wire.
 
After 4 VSL games, I don't think the coaching staff will be forcing Douby to play the point. He'll be playing as shooting guard same as what we saw at the end of last season. As long as he'll be scoring I don't think it'll be a big problem. He will have a place in the NBA but in this team, he'll be behind Martin, Garcia, or Salmons for the SG spot. Ben Gordon plays SG, AI plays shooting guard. Though quite a long shot comparison, but these players are all undersized SG that needs to hug the ball a lot to score. So I don't understand much why most people keeps pounding on Douby. I think he just needs to get more confident to score, coz that's the only way he'll be effective on this team the soonest possible time. With Beno back and Singletary(who should make it with the team), PG issue is not much of a problem now than last season. So I wouldn't mind playing Douby at SG coz that will always be his game.

On the side note, looking at JT still getting good numbers while playing as 3, we might be looking at one of the tallest frontline in the NBA with Kings Jersey from time to time. Against teams with slow SF(like the Lakers with Vlad at 3..hahaha), it'll be good see Miller, Hawes, JT, Martin, Beno on the floor. :D
 
On the side note, looking at JT still getting good numbers while playing as 3, we might be looking at one of the tallest frontline in the NBA with Kings Jersey from time to time. Against teams with slow SF(like the Lakers with Vlad at 3..hahaha), it'll be good see Miller, Hawes, JT, Martin, Beno on the floor. :D
No kidding! After all those recent years of being stuck with a small team, to see that front line on the court in a Kings uniform will be a BIG relief. Even during warm-ups just prior to getting Hawes I thought we looked intimidated by most of the other teams large number of bigs. Now with the addition of JT that front line of Miller, Hawes and Thompson (all 7 feet or near) is our chance to intimidate!
 
J. Thompson played 25 minutes. He was 7 out of 11 shots from the floor and had 10 rebounds. Personally, I hope he disappears like that every night. I agree with an earlier post, that Thompson just seems to let the game come to him, and doesn't force things as much as you might think a rookie would.

Douby played 33 minutes and was 14 out of 21 from the floor. Not bad so far. Unlike Thompson, he did not let the game come to him, and took every opportunity to score. In the regular season, he wouldn't get those minutes and he wouldn't be the focal pt of the offense. So it remains to be seen how he responds to a differnent scenaro. The down side of his game is that in those 33 minutes, he had 1 assist and 4 turnovers, to go along with no rebounds. Even Spud Webb would grap 3 or 4 rebounds in 33 minutes. His problem is, at this point of his career, he's too one dimensional. His plusses do not outweigh his minuses, and thats not good.
I am anxious to check out the game tomorrow night. I've missed all of the other ones since I was on vaca. Sounds like Thompson has played well. Good to hear.
 
I know I just quoted you, but remember when Douby had about 25 points or something in the first half right? I think he tool about 60% of the shots for the Kings in the first half. Anytime you have a guy that's bringing the ball up the court not really passing to anyone you will tend to have the 4 others "disappear".

It wasn't just this game, he has done it the others too. You are right though Douby doesn't help matters. Still though don't get me wrong, JT has lived up to and far exceeded all expectations I've had for him so far. Really my complaint is relatively minor but what else is there to nitpick at with JT? He has pretty much done it all.
 
After 4 VSL games, I don't think the coaching staff will be forcing Douby to play the point. He'll be playing as shooting guard same as what we saw at the end of last season. As long as he'll be scoring I don't think it'll be a big problem. He will have a place in the NBA but in this team, he'll be behind Martin, Garcia, or Salmons for the SG spot. Ben Gordon plays SG, AI plays shooting guard. Though quite a long shot comparison, but these players are all undersized SG that needs to hug the ball a lot to score. So I don't understand much why most people keeps pounding on Douby. I think he just needs to get more confident to score, coz that's the only way he'll be effective on this team the soonest possible time. With Beno back and Singletary(who should make it with the team), PG issue is not much of a problem now than last season. So I wouldn't mind playing Douby at SG coz that will always be his game.

On the side note, looking at JT still getting good numbers while playing as 3, we might be looking at one of the tallest frontline in the NBA with Kings Jersey from time to time. Against teams with slow SF(like the Lakers with Vlad at 3..hahaha), it'll be good see Miller, Hawes, JT, Martin, Beno on the floor. :D
I don't see why we can't get both Douby and Singletary 10-15 MPG. Let Douby play with Beno and Singletary while Martin's out. The fresher Martin is for the 4th quarter the better, and eventually(a year or 3 down the line) you aren't going to want to play him 40 MPG anyway because it would wear him down leading up to the playoffs.

When Detroit won the title, Billups and Rip both averaged 35 MPG. They had Lindsey Hunter and Mike James averaging 20 MPG off the bench. I'm not sure how exactly they pulled it off, but I don't see why we couldn't do something similar. Douby and Singletary have shown they're both scrappy and good defenders, Douby's used his long arms to get a lot of steals so far and Singletary's ability to pressure guys when they're bringing the ball up helps that. With Singletary running the offense, and Beno running the offense, you're not going to see Douby become a black hole or anything. He's a nice scorer off the bench at SG, and he plays good D even if he is undersized.
 
If Douby is in there for 20mpg at SG then there will be some issues with defense. Douby is a good defender when defending PGs but not bigger SFs. They would be able to back him down pretty easy.
 
If Douby is in there for 20mpg at SG then there will be some issues with defense. Douby is a good defender when defending PGs but not bigger SFs. They would be able to back him down pretty easy.
Eh I don't think he'd play 20 MPG but he could probably play 15. Or he could spend a few minutes at PG with with Cisco or JS bringing the ball up the court. A lot of teams don't have big shooting guards though. It'd work against teams like LAC, Chicago, Memphis, GS, PHX, etc.