Kings Dismal Record - Why Poll?

[PurpleHaze]

Since Adelman left Kings are 108-291. Although Adelmans last year was also dismal and big reason he was let go, it's not included in this total. I know we've debated it all before but don't think we've had a poll so here's one that basically asks - "What the hell happened since Adelman."

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Since Adelman left Kings are 108-291. Although Adelmans last year was also dismal and big reason he was let go, it's not included in this total. I know we've debated it all before but don't think we've had a poll so here's one that basically asks - "What the hell happened since Adelman."

Adleman never had a sub .500 season in Sacramento. I wouldn't call his last season dismal. It was just a case of folks having unrealistic expectations of that team. People still wanted 60 wins even though Webber, Bobby Jackson, Christie, and Vlade were gone. When that didn't happen, they scapegoated Adelemen as if 44 wins with that 2005/2006 roster was bad.

 

[PurpleHaze]

We all know Kings have been dismal last few years. If I got their overall record incorrect slightly since Adelman left please correct and also maybe compare to other down in the dumps NBA teams over same stretch. I only made the poll just to gauge what we collectively think reasons are, plus made it a little tongue in cheek since we need something to chuckle about amidst all the present doom.

 

[swisshh]

There's multiple reasons, mostly having to do with the Maloofs and Petrie. You could argue that if the Kings get the #1 pick and are able to draft Blake Griffin, their fortunes would be far better. The problems go back farther than that though. Management keeps proposing a vision of the team and then scrapping that vision within two years. There's no patience involved. I'm not sure why. The Kings had an offensive lineup of young players that just needed a PG to run things. They scrapped that idea and went with Tyreke, Casspi and a new tougher image and mindset. They traded away Hawes and Martin, and players like Cisco lost playing time. Drafting Cousins the next year and getting Dalembert made it seem like the team was ready to be tough and defensive, but only a year later and half those players are gone and the team is playing smallball without a care for defense.

Another product of this repeated rerolling of the team is that the roster never reaches the point where it has all the holes filled so that it can become the original idea that was presented to the fans. Martin & Co never get the proper PG. Tyreke & Toughness never get the vet leader. Tyreke & Smallball has no PG or Vet leader. At this point, every draft feels like a reset.

You also have a string of bad coaches and handling of those coaches that makes real coaches not want to come here. This can be blamed on the Maloofs tight purse, but keeping Westphal on into this year was probably not a wise decision by Petrie. They're still stuck paying two coaches now, but with the start of the season a total waste due to not making the move earlier.



This team has been accused of being a Rachel Phelps scenario and they really haven't done much to alleviate that image.

 

[PurpleHaze]

I looked at record of Kings again since Adelman and it's still dismal but needs a correction (plus Rick's last year was mediocre for him but not dismal). It stands currently (as of 01/16/12) at 141-283 - if my calculator's working correctly.

05-06 44W-38L Adelman's last season

Since Adelman:

06-07 33W-49L Musselman
07-08 38W-44L Theus
08-09 17W-65L Theus/Natt
09-10 25W-57L Westphal
10-11 24W-58L Westphal
11-12 4W-10L Westphal/Smart

 

[Sac.1989]

The Maloofs are the grassroots issue. Its hard to do well without money. This in turn has played its part in the coaches who have been picked, the players we have been able to sign and the inability to inact a system that works.

That is basically it my friends

 

[swisshh]

It doesn't surprise me that Theus had the best year out of all their hires. He was the only coach that installed a system that made good use of the team's personnel. His failing was trying to win with vets to save his job while still trying to give the youngsters a chance to grow. You can't really do both, and he also wouldn't fire his AC, so the Maloofs fired them both.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

The Maloofs are the grassroots issue. Its hard to do well without money. This in turn has played its part in the coaches who have been picked, the players we have been able to sign and the inability to inact a system that works.

That is basically it my friends

i agree with this post.

let's see ... birds chirping defense wins championships, wnba coach almost hired. powerpoint presentation wins them over. musselman hired. bibby, miller and co try their hardest to play defense. wrong personnel to do so.

 

[cuad]

I guess it all goes back to the Maloofs. I wanted to blame the roster, but Geoff Petrie put the roster together. I wanted to blame Petrie, but the Maloofs, being broke and all, had their hands all up in his business...

 

[Rookie]

Our "star" players isn't playing like "star".

While I point to the coach for some of it, they still need to shine themselves. It's like a snake without a head...wiggles around until it's dead. Maloof can spend more for better coach/role players but unless Tyreke/Cousins start showing that they are star players on a consistent basis, this team will go nowhere.

I think Cousins still has a lot more to offer and is playing well so far. He had a few bad games but mostly decent to good. With this being his second year, I still have a lot of hope for him. However I expect more from Tyreke this season and if he doesn't show any consistency in the second half of this season, I will be very worry. He also need to demand authority of the team and established himself as the head of the pack. Just my opinion but I really think we need an alpha dog...and I put that on Tyreke's shoulder. We be in deep $h!t if he doesn't man up to the role.

 

[mr. moustache]

Our "star" players isn't playing like "star".

While I point to the coach for some of it, they still need to shine themselves. It's like a snake without a head...wiggles around until it's dead. Maloof can spend more for better coach/role players but unless Tyreke/Cousins start showing that they are star players on a consistent basis, this team will go nowhere.

I think Cousins still has a lot more to offer and is playing well so far. He had a few bad games but mostly decent to good. With this being his second year, I still have a lot of hope for him. However I expect more from Tyreke this season and if he doesn't show any consistency in the second half of this season, I will be very worry. He also need to demand authority of the team and established himself as the head of the pack. Just my opinion but I really think we need an alpha dog...and I put that on Tyreke's shoulder. We be in deep $h!t if he doesn't man up to the role.

Big men don't dominate their second year in the league, at least the VAST majority don't. If you expect Cousins to consistently put up 18/12; you're setting yourself up for failure. Evans is playing great for a guard in his third year. Again, it's unrealistic expectations you're putting on him. If you expect him to be like D. Rose, you're expecting him to play like an MVP. He's not an MVP and likely won't ever be. That's OK. He's a phenomenal player. Your disappointment is directly related to your expectations and your expectations are unrealistic. I have a secret for you. Jimmer is probably not now, or ever, an All-Star type player. That's OK too, unless you think he should be an All-Star player.

 

[kupman]

Can we still blame all bad outcomes on Kenny Thomas? Why is this not an option? It is the deep tradition of this board.

 

[Bricklayer]

Kinda lumping two distinct era together here making any one answer impossible.

Era 1 were the 3-4 years immediately after the golden era, and that era, typified by dropping dumb contracts on mediocre vets futilely chasing #8 seeds was absolutely either a front office problem, or a Maloof problem if the front office was being told by the owners to take that line.

Era 2 is the last 2+ years where the problems are inexperienced NBA players. Every year we've been getting younger not older, and it shows. Now the front office may have contributed to this particular year by makign some shaky offseaosn moves this time, but their earlier mvoes in the 2-yr span were actually very good as a rule. Shedding old guys, accumulating talent, we were doing swimmingly...right up until the Maloofs has another enthusiasm fit and saw JJ Barea get ht in the Finals and decided that was what won champsionships, and Geoff went into the wayback machine and fell in love with another undersized shooter in the draft. while reacquiring a fellow flatline personality in Salmons. I can only imagine the scintilating conversation at the table as Geoff and new assistant GM Shareef met with Salmons after he arrived.

 

[Kingster]

It starts with the cheapness of the Maloofs. The salary cap issues have nothing to do with paying the $ necessary for a good coach, and for that matter, a good GM.

As I've said after the Westphal firing, I'm done with Petrie. Someone has to take responsibility for the coaching carousel and the poor team performance. Maybe the Maloofs have meddled and hamstrung him. Who can really know to what degree? Leaving that aside, thinking that not having a decent 3 was the root of the Kings issues was preposterous. Then compounding the error by getting Salmons of all people was ridiculous. Then exchanging Beno for Salmons was absurd. It doesn't take a Phi Betta Kappa to understand that you just threw ballhandling and assists into the toilet with that exchange. Also, you lose a floor general in Beno and you get a passive tool in Salmons. There was an incredible overestimation of Tyreke's ballhandling skills, or Jimmer's, or Cousins' for that matter. Not being able to even get Barea in FA when you have all that dough is beyond my comprehension. Sometimes the obvious is just....obvious. Throw in older history like the overpaying of guys like Miki Moore, and the mult-year delay in admitting the *obvious* that this team needed to rebuild with a capital R, you're left with a disaster. This organization just smells putrid. You really wonder what is going on behind the scenes.

 

[rainmaker]

Crappy organization.

This organization reminds me of Blockbuster. Ten years ago doing great, top of the industry, popular, raking in money, seemed to be redifining the way movie rentals worked, or in our case, taking the standards of beautiful passing/teamwork to a new level.

Yet ten years later, Blockbuster is still banking on it's old tactics, living in the past, not adapting to the times/technology, and is pretty much going out of business. Well, look at us. A number of similarities. Living off our glory years, as we've been an utter failure since. No longer popular, as other rebuilding teams have passed us up. Not realizing in this league, at this time, on this team that a bunch on 1v1 players doesn't work. Poor investment strategy. Owners who appear clueless, not with the times or what it takes to succeed.

Blockbuster ten years ago was atop the industry, and are now the bottom rung. Ten years ago we were the most popular, or one of the most popular teams world wide, yet are now the bottom rung, with what appears as zero ability to adapt or change.

If this was a corporation, would you apply? I sure as hell wouldn't.

 

[BMiller52]

i agree with this post.

let's see ... birds chirping defense wins championships, wnba coach almost hired. powerpoint presentation wins them over. musselman hired. bibby, miller and co try their hardest to play defense. wrong personnel to do so.

cosigned, multiple problems but all lead back to Joe and Gavin.

 

[sactownfan]

Crappy organization.

I have to agree... This current roster is a total mess. a mixture of all similar players that don't fit or share the ball...

for every step forward we take 3 more back... drafting Cousins good.. trading Noc and Hawes for Dalembert good... not trading him or resigning him bad. salmons bad. Jimmer (so far bad), JJ hickson, Outlaw, bad bad bad...

I think drafting Evans over Rubio was fools gold.... and now that Rubio has joined the league... Rubio is exactly what this blend of players on the Kings needed... a unselfish pass first prodigy that on nights that he hits one basket he can give his team a win almost getting a triple double in ast steals and rebounds.. plus doing a ton of other hustle stuff that didn't show up in the stats...

Rubio Keeps the offense moving and smooth... Rubios teammates know that IF THEY MOVE ... HE WILL FIND THEM...he makes things easier for teammates and keeps them in a rhythm... Evans brings the offense to a stop. and consists usually of Evans looking to drive himself... if Evans teammates move usually it results in Evans not seeing it or being able to get them the ball.

I realize Rubio is never coming to sacramento.... but the biggest need for this team behind a new front office, GM and owners is a player and PG like Rubio. i'd say coach 3rd biggest need... i just think this team would instantly be winning more if we had a Rubio to make things easy for these guys.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Collection of young talented parts that do not fit, as well as a collection of either has-been veterans or the wrong type of vets. Its like that puzzle piece you swear fits in the spot you are trying to fill, but after trying it you see that all it was.. was your misjudgment. In professional sports, the misjudgment can only come from the ones that own and lead the organization, and thus the cheap manner in which the team was handled, as well as the fiddling of the owners who think they know basketball, have guided the team into a deep ditch. We need some sort of point guard to stabilize the offense, and Sammy D should never have been allowed to leave. Westphal clearly didn't help the team either. A series of bad decisions from management, and Petrie, have led the team astray.

 

[rainmaker]

I have to agree... This current roster is a total mess. a mixture of all similar players that don't fit or share the ball...

for every step forward we take 3 more back... drafting Cousins good.. trading Noc and Hawes for Dalembert good... not trading him or resigning him bad. salmons bad. Jimmer (so far bad), JJ hickson, Outlaw, bad bad bad...

I think drafting Evans over Rubio was fools gold.... and now that Rubio has joined the league... Rubio is exactly what this blend of players on the Kings needed... a unselfish pass first prodigy that on nights that he hits one basket he can give his team a win almost getting a triple double in ast steals and rebounds.. plus doing a ton of other hustle stuff that didn't show up in the stats...

Rubio Keeps the offense moving and smooth... Rubios teammates know that IF THEY MOVE ... HE WILL FIND THEM...he makes things easier for teammates and keeps them in a rhythm... Evans brings the offense to a stop. and consists usually of Evans looking to drive himself... if Evans teammates move usually it results in Evans not seeing it or being able to get them the ball.

I realize Rubio is never coming to sacramento.... but the biggest need for this team behind a new front office, GM and owners is a player and PG like Rubio. i'd say coach 3rd biggest need... i just think this team would instantly be winning more if we had a Rubio to make things easy for these guys.

Minn has done a good job surrounding Rubio with guys who can catch and shoot. We however have not done the same with Reke, or Cousins for that matter.

You surround Reke with competent shooters, and his assists go up dramatically. The offense doesn't stop with Reke. He's setting guys up almost to a fault, at the expense of his own offense, to only see guys convert at an NBA record low pace. Reke doesn't shoot for his teammates. Neither does Rubio. That's not to say Rubio isn't a better passer, but Reke sets guys up plenty. The problem is the complete lack of shooting, as is the system, where Minn is better due to Rick.

 

[bajaden]

Since Adelman left Kings are 108-291. Although Adelmans last year was also dismal and big reason he was let go, it's not included in this total. I know we've debated it all before but don't think we've had a poll so here's one that basically asks - "What the hell happened since Adelman."

Adelman's last year here he was 44 and 38 and we made the playoffs. That looks pretty good to me right now. I'd hardly call it dismal.

 

[PurpleHaze]

Adelman's last year here he was 44 and 38 and we made the playoffs. That looks pretty good to me right now. I'd hardly call it dismal.

I know, I corrected it with follow-up post.

 

[bluntsnbball]

Rubio would have been nice, but realistically, there was no way we could have drafted him. We were the absolute worst team in the league with rumors of our team moving. We couldnt gamble on rubio, then wait 2 years for him to come over. Fans would have been angry. And i'm not mad with the draft, Reke is all-star calibur, we just have to figure out the best way to use him still.


BUT to answer the post, we have consistently had the lowest payroll and lowest payed coach in the league, how good of a team can you honestly expect w/ that?

 

[lwc]

Rubio would have been nice, but realistically, there was no way we could have drafted him. We were the absolute worst team in the league with rumors of our team moving. We couldnt gamble on rubio, then wait 2 years for him to come over. Fans would have been angry. And i'm not mad with the draft, Reke is all-star calibur, we just have to figure out the best way to use him still.


BUT to answer the post, we have consistently had the lowest payroll and lowest payed coach in the league, how good of a team can you honestly expect w/ that?

Bingo!