Kings active in trade talks?

[Padrino]

The way I look at it is this; if there was a guy in the draft that you knew would give you 10/11/2(blocks) and defense next season AND you had him on contract for 2.5 years at approximately 13 mil a season would you take him in the top 5?

My answer to that would be no. As good as Noah is, I think he is overpaid. In his last two years he is making 13 mil and 14 mil. That's 2nd option type money. Do you think Noah is a 2nd option on a team? I don't. He is an ultimate glue guy who can do a little bit of everything. I would rather take a flyer on Cauley-Stein than hamstring our small market team with Noah's contract. Don't get me wrong. I love him as a player and think he would be a great fit next to Cousins, but his contract makes it difficult to build a winner.

It's similar to Ibaka. He is vastly overpayed. I think it is one of the few mistakes the Thunder made. I was very surprised they decided to not extend their third star and offer a role player 12 mil year. It was ludicrous in my mind. They had their big 3 and decided an athletic shotblocker was more valuable than a star. As a Kings fan, I'm happy considering we don't have to compete against that trio in the playoffs.

that's second option money AND it's defensive anchor money in the nba. roy hibbert's on a max contract despite being even less effective offensively than joakim noah and serge ibaka, both of whom, like hibbert, have a tremendous impact on the defensive end. kings fans really need to remember that there are two sides to the game of basketball...

edit: in my opinion, the risk with noah is not that he won't be able to perform up to his contract. he's precisely the kind of defensive talent the kings need up front. he'd earn his money in sacramento... if he managed to stay healthy. that is the risk with noah, who's been injured enough throughout his career to give you a bit of pause...

 

[Tetsujin]

Wow the Celtics somehow managed to get a 1st rounder (PHI via MIA) for Jordan Crawford. They also got Joel Anthony, which pretty much means they're going straight for the tank this year.

They also assigned Rondo to D-League.

Ainge you magnificent bastard.

 

[Padrino]

Wow the Celtics somehow managed to get a 1st rounder (PHI via MIA) for Jordan Crawford. They also got Joel Anthony, which pretty much means they're going straight for the tank this year.

They also assigned Rondo to D-League.

Ainge you magnificent bastard.

from what i understand, it's just for a brief workout. he'll be back with the celtics at the conclusion of the workout. but it was definitely a slick move to snag a first rounder for jordan crawford, considering that the celtics have clearly entered tank-mode...

 

[Tetsujin]

that's second option money AND it's defensive anchor money in the nba. roy hibbert's on a max contract despite being even less effective offensively than joakim noah and serge ibaka, both of whom, like hibbert, have a tremendous impact on the defensive end. kings fans really need to remember that there are two sides to the game of basketball...

It would depend on how little else we'd have to exchange for Noah. If it was just dropping the pick protection and maybe offering a JT or D-Will, I would be all over it. Especially if we could couple it with a move for a Rondo with the remaining chess pieces we have (IT/B-Mac/insert what else we have left here).

Cousins/Gray
Noah/Landry
Gay/ (We'd probably wind up with Gerald Wallace and his bloated contract)
(I'm assuming MT would be stuck on our roster because no one would want him)
Rondo/ Jimmer

That starting line-up would have enough offensive punch AND defensive presence to give anyone trouble and having Carl Landry as your sixth man is suddenly more appealing when you can put him next to Noah while Cuz gets his rest. Then again, this is all likely a pipe dream but one can wish.

 

[Tetsujin]

from what i understand, it's just for a brief workout. he'll be back with the celtics at the conclusion of the workout. but it was definitely a slick move to snag a first rounder for jordan crawford, considering that the celtics have clearly entered tank-mode...

Of course. One can only wonder just how deep into tank mode the Celtics are. If it's reached trade Rondo levels, we'll know soon enough.

 

[Padrino]

It would depend on how little else we'd have to exchange for Noah. If it was just dropping the pick protection and maybe offering a JT or D-Will, I would be all over it. Especially if we could couple it with a move for a Rondo with the remaining chess pieces we have (IT/B-Mac/insert what else we have left here).

Cousins/Gray
Noah/Landry
Gay/ (We'd probably wind up with Gerald Wallace and his bloated contract)
(I'm assuming MT would be stuck on our roster because no one would want him)
Rondo/ Jimmer

That starting line-up would have enough offensive punch AND defensive presence to give anyone trouble and having Carl Landry as your sixth man is suddenly more appealing when you can put him next to Noah while Cuz gets his rest. Then again, this is all likely a pipe dream but one can wish.

well that would be quite the fantasy scenario, to manage trades for both noah and rondo. but i don't think the kings have the assets to pull off such an extraordinary coup. if chicago actually has designs on trading noah (note: chad ford is the quoted source reporting on it, so this "rumor" is really less-than-a-rumor in terms of reliability), it means they're attempting a full-scale rebuild, which also means that they'll want draft picks and expiring contracts...

apart from jimmer's and thomas' rookie-scale contracts, the kings don't have anything left in the way of expirings (do they?), and the bulls already own a future kings first-rounder, so a simple removal of protections + JT doesn't strike me as the kind of deal for noah that would get it done. i can't imagine they'd want to take on JT's salary. they may have interest in someone like williams, and they might even have interest in isaiah thomas, while they wait for derrick rose to recover...

personally, i don't think the kings have enough with which to pry noah away from chicago. if the bulls really intend to trade him, i'm sure they can find a better deal elsewhere. but if the kings were able to make a competitive offer, there's little i wouldn't give up outside of cousins (and rudy gay, who the bulls likely wouldn't be interested in, anyway). after all, noah/cousins/gay reads quite a bit like a supercharged version of gasol/randolph/gay, a starting frontcourt that had considerable success at the height of its power...

 

[Gary]

that's second option money AND it's defensive anchor money in the nba. roy hibbert's on a max contract despite being even less effective offensively than joakim noah and serge ibaka, both of whom, like hibbert, have a tremendous impact on the defensive end. kings fans really need to remember that there are two sides to the game of basketball...

edit: in my opinion, the risk with noah is not that he won't be able to perform up to his contract. he's precisely the kind of defensive talent the kings need up front. he'd earn his money in sacramento... if he managed to stay healthy. that is the risk with noah, who's been injured enough throughout his career to give you a bit of pause...

If we happen to be winning if we have Noah then there *should* be a culture change, meaning if the team is used to winning then they are going to keep playing winning basketball. *if noah were to get injured*

I think Noah gives us that aspect as well. He can make us into a winner and get over that hump then the players we have now would expect to win every night.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Still think the Bulls are in a one-year "retool" rather than a tear-down rebuild, but we'll see.

 

[Gary]

personally, i don't think the kings have enough with which to pry noah away from chicago. if the bulls really intend to trade him, i'm sure they can find a better deal elsewhere. but if the kings were able to make a competitive offer, there's little i wouldn't give up outside of cousins (and rudy gay, who the bulls likely wouldn't be interested in, anyway). after all, noah/cousins/gay reads quite a bit like a supercharged version of gasol/randolph/gay, a starting frontcourt that had considerable success at the height of its power...

I believe unprotecting the draft pick would probably be enough (and adding player(s) so the salaries match up). Chicago is not going to get a better pick then we will have this year. The draft is a good draft but it's top heavy so there are players 1-6 or 1-7 that would possible be #1 picks in other draft years. So our pick is probably worth 2 or 3 picks in the teens.

 

[cuad]

Celtics clearin' space for Isaiah Thomas, I see.

 

[JLoss22]

If we got Noah..... Oh lawddddddddddd I'd be so happyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

 

[JLoss22]

So Thornton, Mclemore and move protected pick to top 5 protected. And call it a day?

We would then need to get a SG somwhere

 

[Entity]

well celtic traded both of of their SG and got a PG. I know where they can get a SG and a PG

 

[twslam07]

that's second option money AND it's defensive anchor money in the nba. roy hibbert's on a max contract despite being even less effective offensively than joakim noah and serge ibaka, both of whom, like hibbert, have a tremendous impact on the defensive end. kings fans really need to remember that there are two sides to the game of basketball...

edit: in my opinion, the risk with noah is not that he won't be able to perform up to his contract. he's precisely the kind of defensive talent the kings need up front. he'd earn his money in sacramento... if he managed to stay healthy. that is the risk with noah, who's been injured enough throughout his career to give you a bit of pause...

Thanks for the cheap shot... I'm a big proponent of defense on this board, but I understand it's difficult to keep tabs on everyone.

I'm going to go ahead and say I was wrong on this topic, Padrino. Defensive anchors do warrant big paydays along with 1st and 2nd options.

It really is a big risk when you think about it. Do I keep the pick (Embiid/Cauley-Stein) and hope my rookie pans out into the player I want him to be thus setting me up financially to go after another very good player, or do I trade the pick away for the sure thing (Noah) but tie my hands financially and prevent myself from making any more moves. One has more upside, and one is more safe. Well what does history say? Does going the riskier route lead to more championship caliber teams or does playing it safe lead to more championship caliber teams? I couldn't tell you off the top of my head.

 

[Bricklayer]

So Thornton, Mclemore and move protected pick to top 5 protected. And call it a day?

We would then need to get a SG somwhere

I assume that's just a proposal rather than anything you've heard?

If so, even if Noah were on the market I a) doubt you could keep any protection at all on the pick. You could aim for Top3, maybe get #1 protection or some such. And b) suspect JT would be the contact moved, not Thornton. The Bulls would need a big man back, and with Landry coming to crowd things up, there won't be room for a $6-$7mil 4th big.

 

[JLoss22]

I assume that's just a proposal rather than anything you've heard?

If so, even if Noah were on the market I a) doubt you could keep any protection at all on the pick. You could aim for Top3, maybe get #1 protection or some such. And b) suspect JT would be the contact moved, not Thornton. The Bulls would need a big man back, and with Landry coming to crowd things up, there won't be room for a $6-$7mil 4th big.

Would they want the length of JT's contract though? I mean he has 3 years after this season, where as Thornton would be an expiring next year. And as far as the protection, I wouldn't budge on it, I wouldn't give up a top 5 pick AND McLemore for him. I love Noah but that's a little too steep for me. Although if they were willing to take back JT and Outlaw's contracts somehow and make it work, I may consider it.

 

[Hallama]

I assume that's just a proposal rather than anything you've heard?

If so, even if Noah were on the market I a) doubt you could keep any protection at all on the pick. You could aim for Top3, maybe get #1 protection or some such. And b) suspect JT would be the contact moved, not Thornton. The Bulls would need a big man back, and with Landry coming to crowd things up, there won't be room for a $6-$7mil 4th big.

I could see the Bulls going for JT + 2014 #1 for Noah + Kings protected pick. BIG risk, but with Noah, the Kings could make a bit of a run this season, so the draft pick would be more likely in the 8-10 range.

 

[Bricklayer]

I could see the Bulls going for JT + 2014 #1 for Noah + Kings protected pick. BIG risk, but with Noah, the Kings could make a bit of a run this season, so the draft pick would be more likely in the 8-10 range.

Not sure what you are intending with that 2014 #1, but hope you aren't suggesting the Bulls would swap picks with us and give us Noah as well. If the Bulls trade Noah they are taking a dive. You couldn't get their #1 pick at that point for anything less than Cousins. Which is ok actually. There is a little bit of serendipity to having one of the few teams in the league with a perfect fit guy to put next to Cousins to suddenly make a trade acquiring our protected pick/most valuable trade asset.

 

[Padrino]

Thanks for the cheap shot... I'm a big proponent of defense on this board, but I understand it's difficult to keep tabs on everyone.

I'm going to go ahead and say I was wrong on this topic, Padrino. Defensive anchors do warrant big paydays along with 1st and 2nd options.

It really is a big risk when you think about it. Do I keep the pick (Embiid/Cauley-Stein) and hope my rookie pans out into the player I want him to be thus setting me up financially to go after another very good player, or do I trade the pick away for the sure thing (Noah) but tie my hands financially and prevent myself from making any more moves. One has more upside, and one is more safe. Well what does history say? Does going the riskier route lead to more championship caliber teams or does playing it safe lead to more championship caliber teams? I couldn't tell you off the top of my head.

that wasn't a cheap shot directed at you, in particular. it was more of a sideways shot aimed at kings fans, in general, who just love offense, but often fail to recognize the value in taking a risk on defensive talent, despite the fact that the team's glaring defensive issues are so obviously the reason for their seven straight absences from the post-season...

i apologize if it came across as a personal attack. i suppose i'm just frustrated by the tenor of a lot of the conversations that go on at kf.com. i mean, there is a healthy segment of the fanbase that gets completely up in arms at the mere suggestion of eventually returning isaiah thomas to a sixth man's role, despite the fact that no nba team has ever had sustainable success with three 20-point scorers in the starting lineup, none of whom are elite-level defenders...

it just doesn't work. history tells us that it doesn't work. and history also tells us that defensive bigs are the key to playoff success, even when there's a dearth of talent or scoring elsewhere on the roster. if i can get joakim noah now, i do it. if i can't, i try for cauley-stein or vonleh in the draft, provided i miss out on embiid, parker, wiggins, and exum...

 

[Entity]

Not sure what you are intending with that 2014 #1, but hope you aren't suggesting the Bulls would swap picks with us and give us Noah as well. If the Bulls trade Noah they are taking a dive. You couldn't get their #1 pick at that point for anything less than Cousins. Which is ok actually. There is a little bit of serendipity to having one of the few teams in the league with a perfect fit guy to put next to Cousins to suddenly make a trade acquiring our protected pick/most valuable trade asset.

when is the Date in which Derek Williams can be combined in a trade? isn't it 2 months after the last trade?

 

[LPKingsFan]

According to ESPN's trade machine, it's Jan 26.

 

[Entity]

According to ESPN's trade machine, it's Jan 26.

Derek Williams and JT + unprotect that pick for Noah and Snell

 

[LPKingsFan]

Derek Williams and JT + unprotect that pick for Noah and Snell

If they're really rebuilding (and I don't think they are), why in the world would they trade Snell?

 

[Entity]

If they're really rebuilding (and I don't think they are), why in the world would they trade Snell?

for Derek Williams and that unprotected first round pick. Williams isn't exactly a seasoned vet what this is third year?

 

[macadocious]

I assume that's just a proposal rather than anything you've heard?

If so, even if Noah were on the market I a) doubt you could keep any protection at all on the pick. You could aim for Top3, maybe get #1 protection or some such. And b) suspect JT would be the contact moved, not Thornton. The Bulls would need a big man back, and with Landry coming to crowd things up, there won't be room for a $6-$7mil 4th big.

Hmm, wonder where I have seen this before, oh, yes now I remember:

I would really like to see a trade like this around the deadline.

We offer then a decent big in Thompson, and expiring contract in Jimmer and assuming at the trade deadline we are still in the 5-7 range for pick we remove our hold on the pick. Maybe we bump up to the 8-9 pick at best. This way we get a player and position we desperately need, add a veteran and aren't throwing another 19-21 year old in their with Boogie and whomever were retain from this group.

This give Chicago a replacement big (sorta) and cuts about $6MM a year in salary they also get the most benefit out of the 1st round pick they traded for.

 

[jalfa]

Wow the Celtics somehow managed to get a 1st rounder (PHI via MIA) for Jordan Crawford. They also got Joel Anthony, which pretty much means they're going straight for the tank this year.

They also assigned Rondo to D-League.

Ainge you magnificent bastard.

the 76ers pick is lottery protected for this year, as well as next year, and becomes a 2nd rounder afterwards. so, it's a 2nd rounder, really. still an interesting deal for them, especially since they now have approximately 42 draft picks over the next few years.

 

[SacKings2002NBAChampions]

The bulls have Mirotic coming who is doing extremely well in Europe this season and will star in the NBA
Rose is coming back slowly.
They freed a lot of cap room with trading Deng.
They have some decent prospects and cultured vets.
Why in world would they trade Noah. They are not rebuilding or tanking this season.

 

[Entity]

The bulls have Mirotic coming who is doing extremely well in Europe this season and will star in the NBA
Rose is coming back slowly.
They freed a lot of cap room with trading Deng.
They have some decent prospects and cultured vets.
Why in world would they trade Noah. They are not rebuilding or tanking this season.

Rose is coming back slowly??
he is done for the year 2 years in a row now. unless if by slowly you mean 2014-15 season.

 

[Bricklayer]

Rose is coming back slowly??
he is done for the year 2 years in a row now. unless if by slowly you mean 2014-15 season.

Seems a good bet given he mentioned Mirotic as well.

And the underlying point is certainly a possibility -- merely dumping Deng, who wanted too much money that they were not going to pay him this summer, does not necessarily mean they are going full rebuild. We want them to. A lot of weekend Warriors writing their columns say they will or should, but that doesn't mean the Bulls are thinking the same way. I'm hoping they are because that looks like a legit possibility for us. But they aren't stupid. Dump Noah for peanuts, and you could spend the next 5 years trying to find a guy to play that role as well.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Seems a good bet given he mentioned Mirotic as well.

And the underlying point is certainly a possibility -- merely dumping Deng, who wanted too much money that they were not going to pay him this summer, does not necessarily mean they are going full rebuild. We want them to. A lot of weekend Warriors writing their columns say they will or should, but that doesn't mean the Bulls are thinking the same way. I'm hoping they are because that looks like a legit possibility for us. But they aren't stupid. Dump Noah for peanuts, and you could spend the next 5 years trying to find a guy to play that role as well.

Indeed. I think their strategy is pretty obvious. The Deng trade didn't get them any cap space but it did get them under the luxury tax. It didn't really make sense for them to pay the luxury tax for this, what is essentially a lost season without Rose, especially given the stricter tax penalties for repeating teams and the potential for Deng to walk anyway.

Next season, they don't really have space either, considering only Hinrich is an expiring of note, but if they amnesty Boozer and just let Hinrich walk, they'll have $7 million or so in my estimation. Most of that would go to Mirotic, I'd guess, given that he is no longer bound by the rookie salary scale. They'll also have their own pick (somewhere in the low teens or even lower, depending on how they fare long term without Deng) and potentially the Bobcats pick (top 10 protected). So, they move forward with a retooled core of Rose, Noah, Gibson, Butler, Snell, Mirotic, Dunleavy, and the 2014 pick(s).

That team could certainty be competitive in the East again in 2014-15, limited only by Rose. If Rose is done, sure, they break it all down, but I don't think they do that unless they're sure. Trade Noah now and Thibs likely bolts and Rose, even if healthy, may make rumblings of wanting to play elsewhere.