Jason Thompson?

[Chupacabra]

Thats an interesting question. I suppose id rank in this order:
1-Evans
2-Cousins
3-Thompson
4-Greene
5-Whiteside
6-Casspi
7-Landry

So pretty much, Id like our team to keep as much size as possible. The only reason Whiteside is so low is because hes a bit of a project, if he shows he can play he could easily move up to #3 on my list. Either way, its nice to have so much quality and youth. Then you throw Dalembert and Beno in there this team looks like a force, at least on paper.

 

[Megalodon]

He's an excellent passer and he handles the ball very well for a big.

Really? I thought those were his weak points? When I watch him play I feel like he is always trying to float the lazy pass to somebody for a turnover, and is constantly dribbling to much when he can just take a step and dunk.

What am I missing ?

 

[WALTtheWIZ]

Thompson is more valuable than you might think. And I guarantee you that there are teams that would take him off our hands in a heartbeat. Especially in a league filled with undersized centers and PF's. Remember, he just finished his second year. I'm not sure what some of you are looking for, or at. Someone brought up Haslem. Last year he averaged 9.9 PPG and 8.1 RPG to go along with 0.3 BPG. Last season Varejao averaged 8.6 PPG and 7.6 RPG to go along with 0.9 BPG. And thats like his 7th year in the league. last year Thompson averaged 12.5 PPG and 8.6 RPG to go along with 1.0 BPG.

Now that might not be superstar stats, but they're not bad for a second year PF in the league. He improved last year, and I would expect more improvement this coming season. He's a hard and dedicated worker. He also has a pretty good skill level for a big man. He's an excellent passer and he handles the ball very well for a big. He's still a work in progress in the post and still needs to reduce his fouls per game. I expect big things from him this year. Its an important year for him. The third year is when most bigs start to blossom. You just have to have some patience.

I do agree that from what i hear/read he is a hard worker and hustles. However, I disagree, from watching him play over the last 2 years, about his skill level and feel that he is overrated by kings fans. I havent seen excellent passing skills at all. excellent?!??! really? If you call his passing excellent what do you call pau gasol's passing? astronomical? I'd say his passing is slightly above average for a big man, certainly not excellent. And i agree about the ball handling, and to be the type of player that his skill set allows he needs to add muscle. He has a good frame but a slight build.

His offensive game however is not very good at all. He can not finish down low, period. Is he young? yes. Does that mean that he shouldnt be criticized for blowing lay-ups? no.

His offense needs to consist of getting garbage points around the basket and face up jumpers, which he needs to be more consistent and confident with. His high swing through move (similar to amare and our own donte greene) on the block is the only post move ive seen from him and it is not pretty. Neither are the running left, right handed shots that are fairly low percentage. Again, sure he is young, but lets not get carried away about his value or skill level. If he has no post game, he has no post game. We should tell it like it is until he improves (and i think and hope he can).

I know from reading your posts, baja, that you are very knowledgeable and i respect your opinion. However, I also know from your posts that you know that numbers dont tell the story. Right now, i dont believe he is better than Varejao or Haslem. Would I bet he cant be better? no. But right now, he is not, regardless of his stats. If you watch these guys play, its clear to me who is the more skilled and better basketball player right now. I certainly wouldnt give up on thompson and feel he can contribute to this team over the long haul. But i wouldnt, in my opinion, value him more than casspi or greene who have showed more promise and better skill set.

I know teams would love to "take him off our hands." And they would do so hoping for improvement and potential of a big body with good handling, good jump shot, and an effort rebounder ...not for the product we have seen over the past two years. Seeing people on this thread entertain the idea of trading him for O.J. Mayo is just silly...he is simply not that good of a basketball player. I hope he can keep working hard and develop into a good jump shooter who can space the floor for cousins and tyreke and crash the boards hard (Udonis Haslem version 1.5).

But he is not anything special and I feel that he is easily replaceable. Maybe that is harsh, but players need to be held accountable and not be given a free pass because of their lack of experience. Remember thompson is a 4 year college player and he is a lot older than most 3rd year players. I would love to see him stay and improve and im only making the point that he is over valued by kings fans.

 

[Tetsujin]

I usually do not post a lot here but got to rep JT this time. JT is the only legit bigman on the team. Cousins and Whiteside have yet to play. The only reason I'd put Tyreke above JT is because he can break down defense with his dribble. Go out and a play a street game against a team with a 6'10 guy on your block and you'll see JT's value immediately.

I'm sorry, what? Tyreke is a future superstar in this league. JT at his very best would be a third level player (David West)

 

[Tetsujin]

I do agree that from what i hear/read he is a hard worker and hustles. However, I disagree, from watching him play over the last 2 years, about his skill level and feel that he is overrated by kings fans. I havent seen excellent passing skills at all. excellent?!??! really? If you call his passing excellent what do you call pau gasol's passing? astronomical? I'd say his passing is slightly above average for a big man, certainly not excellent. And i agree about the ball handling, and to be the type of player that his skill set allows he needs to add muscle. He has a good frame but a slight build.

His offensive game however is not very good at all. He can not finish down low, period. Is he young? yes. Does that mean that he shouldnt be criticized for blowing lay-ups? no.

His offense needs to consist of getting garbage points around the basket and face up jumpers, which he needs to be more consistent and confident with. His high swing through move (similar to amare and our own donte greene) on the block is the only post move ive seen from him and it is not pretty. Neither are the running left, right handed shots that are fairly low percentage. Again, sure he is young, but lets not get carried away about his value or skill level. If he has no post game, he has no post game. We should tell it like it is until he improves (and i think and hope he can).

I know from reading your posts, baja, that you are very knowledgeable and i respect your opinion. However, I also know from your posts that you know that numbers dont tell the story. Right now, i dont believe he is better than Varejao or Haslem. Would I bet he cant be better? no. But right now, he is not, regardless of his stats. If you watch these guys play, its clear to me who is the more skilled and better basketball player right now. I certainly wouldnt give up on thompson and feel he can contribute to this team over the long haul. But i wouldnt, in my opinion, value him more than casspi or greene who have showed more promise and better skill set.

I know teams would love to "take him off our hands." And they would do so hoping for improvement and potential of a big body with good handling, good jump shot, and an effort rebounder ...not for the product we have seen over the past two years. Seeing people on this thread entertain the idea of trading him for O.J. Mayo is just silly...he is simply not that good of a basketball player. I hope he can keep working hard and develop into a good jump shooter who can space the floor for cousins and tyreke and crash the boards hard (Udonis Haslem version 1.5).

But he is not anything special and I feel that he is easily replaceable. Maybe that is harsh, but players need to be held accountable and not be given a free pass because of their lack of experience. Remember thompson is a 4 year college player and he is a lot older than most 3rd year players. I would love to see him stay and improve and im only making the point that he is over valued by kings fans.

I'm really not sure if 6'11"/ 250lbs is what I'd call a slight build. (If that's slight, then Cousins is normal sized and Whitesides is malnourished).

I'm really going to have to disagree with you on the Varejao comment. Varejao, in my honest opinion, is among the most overrated players in the league. Does he hustle? Yes. Does he have floppy hair? Yes. Is he kind of easy to market? Yes. Does he also have the foul-tastic issues and general brain farts that JT has? yes. Does he also have one of the greatest to ever play behind his back to help alleviate some of his issues? Yes.

Your logic in completely disregarding the stats also makes me scratch my head. While some of his numbers may possibly have been inflated, to get rid of them as a credible example of his growth is kind of like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. By this logic, such luminaries as Steve Blake and Andre Miller as just as good as Tyreke because, while their stats aren't as good, they played for better teams and didn't make as many mistakes.

 

[WALTtheWIZ]

I'm really not sure if 6'11"/ 250lbs is what I'd call a slight build. (If that's slight, then Cousins is normal sized and Whitesides is malnourished).

I'm really going to have to disagree with you on the Varejao comment. Varejao, in my honest opinion, is among the most overrated players in the league. Does he hustle? Yes. Does he have floppy hair? Yes. Is he kind of easy to market? Yes. Does he also have the foul-tastic issues and general brain farts that JT has? yes. Does he also have one of the greatest to ever play behind his back to help alleviate some of his issues? Yes.

Your logic in completely disregarding the stats also makes me scratch my head. While some of his numbers may possibly have been inflated, to get rid of them as a credible
example of his growth is kind of like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. By this logic, such luminaries as Steve Blake and Andre Miller as just as good as Tyreke because, while their stats aren't as good, they played for better teams and didn't make
as many mistakes.

false.

Where did Thompson improve his numbers from last year?

No, I'm not completely disregarding stats, but I form opinions about players based on how they play vs there stats. If not, then al Jefferson is better than tim Duncan. Rashad mccants would still be in the league. And Kevin Martin is a better offensive player than Paul pierce.
Stats early don't paint the whole story and if 12 points and 8 rebounds at 26 years old is a sign of great potential then Spencer hawes would still be around.
Are you comfortable when jt gets the ball? I'm not. When gets the ball on the block I get more nervous than he does, but his numbers would tell you he is just as trustworthy as Andrew bynum.
It's not all about stats-- see Rudy gay, Andres blatche (who I like alot), Randy foye, Ricky Davis, Larry Hughes, tim Thomas...it's happened before and will happen again, stays will mislead you

 

[WALTtheWIZ]

I'm really not sure if 6'11"/ 250lbs is what I'd call a slight build. (If that's slight, then Cousins is normal sized and Whitesides is malnourished).

I'm really going to have to disagree with you on the Varejao comment. Varejao, in my honest opinion, is among the most overrated players in the league. Does he hustle? Yes. Does he have floppy hair? Yes. Is he kind of easy to market? Yes. Does he also have the foul-tastic issues and general brain farts that JT has? yes. Does he also have one of the greatest to ever play behind his back to help alleviate some of his issues? Yes.

Your logic in completely disregarding the stats also makes me scratch my head. While some of his numbers may possibly have been inflated, to get rid of them as a credible
example of his growth is kind of like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. By this
logic, such luminaries as Steve Blake and Andre Miller as just as good as Tyreke
because, while their stats aren't as good, they played for better teams and didn't make
as many mistakes.

there were years when Jerry stackhouse put up better numbers than Reggie miller, which one would you rather have on your team? Monta Ellis would be one of the best players on the league based on stats, why can't the warriors move him? The way he scores and plays doesnt usually last long and isn't suited for the playoffs. Rudy gay or Manu ginobili?
Keith van horn and raef lafrentz wouldve been prime time franchise players based on their stats for a few years. I mean, guys put up better numbers than Kobe right now, bur come on.
But you know what, forget it, jt is a monster!!! Kings are the best team in the league!!!! Yaaaaaaaa, wooooooh
(and thompson doesn't look big or strong to me but thanks again for the numbers. Put him next to Amare and tell me who looks stronger even tho they have similar measurements. Does jt look as strong as webber to you? Again similar weight)

 

[mac]

false.

Where did Thompson improve his numbers from last year?

No, I'm not completely disregarding stats, but I form opinions about players based on how they play vs there stats. If not, then al Jefferson is better than tim Duncan. Rashad mccants would still be in the league. And Kevin Martin is a better offensive player than Paul pierce.
Stats early don't paint the whole story and if 12 points and 8 rebounds at 26 years old is a sign of great potential then Spencer hawes would still be around.
Are you comfortable when jt gets the ball? I'm not. When gets the ball on the block I get more nervous than he does, but his numbers would tell you he is just as trustworthy as Andrew bynum.
It's not all about stats-- see Rudy gay, Andres blatche (who I like alot), Randy foye, Ricky Davis, Larry Hughes, tim Thomas...it's happened before and will happen again, stays will mislead you

I don't think tetsujin said it was all about stats. He simply meant that you can't completely disregard stats. Stats paint a picture, though it may not be the most accurate one. I don't know if you're totally new to the board but if you've been around long enough you'd know that hardly anyone here places complete faith in stats, be it normal NBA recorded stats or more complicated ones derived from strange formulas.

 

[dmj]

I don't want to derail this thread, but I don't think anyone using statistics to judge player performance would come to any of the conclusions that WALTtheWIZ has (Monta Ellis being among the best NBA players, Al Jefferson being better than Tim Duncan, etc.). If you only use basic statistics like PPG and RPG without adjusting for pace, minutes played, or even FG%, then, yes, you could possibly reach some of those conclusions. Again, though, I don't think anyone would argue that those statistics would provide anything close to a reliable metric of player performance.

To make the discussion relevant to the topic of the thread, consider this comparison of Jason Thompson and Andrew Bynum:

Are you comfortable when jt gets the ball? I'm not. When gets the ball on the block I get more nervous than he does, but his numbers would tell you he is just as trustworthy as Andrew bynum.

Thompson was a much less productive player offensively than Bynum, shooting 47% from the field in comparison to Bynum's 57%.

While I think that Thompson is a quality starting big man in this league, I agree with the conclusion that he didn't improve after his rookie season. His numbers from both seasons are almost identical, with the only notable difference being a decline in his FG%.

 

[CruzDude]

Landry came off the bench for the Rockets when he was being considered for 6th man award last year. If JT steps up this year that could be the Kings plan as well.

 

[DesertFox]

there were years when Jerry stackhouse put up better numbers than Reggie miller, which one would you rather have on your team? Monta Ellis would be one of the best players on the league based on stats, why can't the warriors move him? The way he scores and plays doesnt usually last long and isn't suited for the playoffs. Rudy gay or Manu ginobili?
Keith van horn and raef lafrentz wouldve been prime time franchise players based on their stats for a few years. I mean, guys put up better numbers than Kobe right now, bur come on.
But you know what, forget it, jt is a monster!!! Kings are the best team in the league!!!! Yaaaaaaaa, wooooooh
(and thompson doesn't look big or strong to me but thanks again for the numbers. Put him next to Amare and tell me who looks stronger even tho they have similar measurements. Does jt look as strong as webber to you? Again similar weight)

There's a difference between stats and putting up numbers via opportunity.
There are few good stats that would ever consider Stackhouse better than Miller.
Stats say Ginobili is one of the best players in the NBA, and Rudy Gay is an average player. Don't see a problem there.

Looking at the stats, JT is a good rotation player and borderline starter at 23. That's worth something.

 

[bajaden]

I do agree that from what i hear/read he is a hard worker and hustles. However, I disagree, from watching him play over the last 2 years, about his skill level and feel that he is overrated by kings fans. I havent seen excellent passing skills at all. excellent?!??! really? If you call his passing excellent what do you call pau gasol's passing? astronomical? I'd say his passing is slightly above average for a big man, certainly not excellent. And i agree about the ball handling, and to be the type of player that his skill set allows he needs to add muscle. He has a good frame but a slight build.

His offensive game however is not very good at all. He can not finish down low, period. Is he young? yes. Does that mean that he shouldnt be criticized for blowing lay-ups? no.

His offense needs to consist of getting garbage points around the basket and face up jumpers, which he needs to be more consistent and confident with. His high swing through move (similar to amare and our own donte greene) on the block is the only post move ive seen from him and it is not pretty. Neither are the running left, right handed shots that are fairly low percentage. Again, sure he is young, but lets not get carried away about his value or skill level. If he has no post game, he has no post game. We should tell it like it is until he improves (and i think and hope he can).

I know from reading your posts, baja, that you are very knowledgeable and i respect your opinion. However, I also know from your posts that you know that numbers dont tell the story. Right now, i dont believe he is better than Varejao or Haslem. Would I bet he cant be better? no. But right now, he is not, regardless of his stats. If you watch these guys play, its clear to me who is the more skilled and better basketball player right now. I certainly wouldnt give up on thompson and feel he can contribute to this team over the long haul. But i wouldnt, in my opinion, value him more than casspi or greene who have showed more promise and better skill set.

I know teams would love to "take him off our hands." And they would do so hoping for improvement and potential of a big body with good handling, good jump shot, and an effort rebounder ...not for the product we have seen over the past two years. Seeing people on this thread entertain the idea of trading him for O.J. Mayo is just silly...he is simply not that good of a basketball player. I hope he can keep working hard and develop into a good jump shooter who can space the floor for cousins and tyreke and crash the boards hard (Udonis Haslem version 1.5).

But he is not anything special and I feel that he is easily replaceable. Maybe that is harsh, but players need to be held accountable and not be given a free pass because of their lack of experience. Remember thompson is a 4 year college player and he is a lot older than most 3rd year players. I would love to see him stay and improve and im only making the point that he is over valued by kings fans.

So your saying that stats don't matter when his stats happen to be better than those of Haslem or Varejao. Both of whom have been in the league a lot longer than Thompson. Using your line of thinking about Thompson, a second year player, you would have gotten rid of Steve Nash after his second, third or even possibly this fourth year. I don't get people (Not necessarily you) using stats when it reinforces their point of view, but throwing them out as being non conclusive when they don't.

Personally I don't like using stats, but in this instance I have little else other than my opinion. I'm one of those that believes that Varejao is overrated. Especially for a player in his fifth or sixth year. Anyway, my argument isn't that Thompson is a star or even will be a star. Its that he's a valuable player for the team. His improvement may not have been huge, but he did improve stat wise, but more importantly, I think he took a giant step forward when he came back and started with Landry. His game slowed down and he fouled less. If he can pick up where he left off, and thats not a given, but if he can, then he'll average around 15 ant 10. Defensively, a lot of his problem came from playing with Hawes. A problem he won't have with Dalembert there. Also remember that Thompson played for three coaches in two years. That doesn't help a young players development.

I guess I don't get why Thompson is always everyone's whipping boy. He seems to be the first one that everyone wants to get rid of. Why people think he has no value is beyond me. Look at what Charlie Villanueva got last year in the way of a contract. Then look at his numbers. 11.9 PPG, 4.7 RPG. Then take a look at his shooting percentage. My point isn't whether Thompson is better than Villanueva or not. Which he is in my opinion. My point is that there is such a shortage of PF's and centers with size that someone was willing to pay Villanueva more money than he was worth.

One last thing. I don't know if you've ever seen Thompson up close, but he's a big dude. So I don't know where you get this slight of build stuff. Thompson is pretty athletic. You don't want him to get so heavy it affects his mobility.

 

[WALTtheWIZ]

So your saying that stats don't matter when his stats happen to be better than those of Haslem or Varejao. Both of whom have been in the league a lot longer than Thompson. Using your line of thinking about Thompson, a second year player, you would have gotten rid of Steve Nash after his second, third or even possibly this fourth year. I don't get people (Not necessarily you) using stats when it reinforces their point of view, but throwing them out as being non conclusive when they don't.

Personally I don't like using stats, but in this instance I have little else other than my opinion. I'm one of those that believes that Varejao is overrated. Especially for a player in his fifth or sixth year. Anyway, my argument isn't that Thompson is a star or even will be a star. Its that he's a valuable player for the team. His improvement may not have been huge, but he did improve stat wise, but more importantly, I think he took a giant step forward when he came back and started with Landry. His game slowed down and he fouled less. If he can pick up where he left off, and thats not a given, but if he can, then he'll average around 15 ant 10. Defensively, a lot of his problem came from playing with Hawes. A problem he won't have with Dalembert there. Also remember that Thompson played for three coaches in two years. That doesn't help a young players development.

I guess I don't get why Thompson is always everyone's whipping boy. He seems to be the first one that everyone wants to get rid of. Why people think he has no value is beyond me. Look at what Charlie Villanueva got last year in the way of a contract. Then look at his numbers. 11.9 PPG, 4.7 RPG. Then take a look at his shooting percentage. My point isn't whether Thompson is better than Villanueva or not. Which he is in my opinion. My point is that there is such a shortage of PF's and centers with size that someone was willing to pay Villanueva more money than he was worth.

One last thing. I don't know if you've ever seen Thompson up close, but he's a big dude. So I don't know where you get this slight of build stuff. Thompson is pretty athletic. You don't want him to get so heavy it affects his mobility.

I've dont really like to use stats to argue for or against a player. I would rather watch them play and judge their skillset and what they bring to the team. More importantly, I just like to see how people look out there-- is a guy comfortable with the ball in his hands, is he under control, does he have good court vision, does he seem to be in the right places, take good shots, make the extra pass, and most important does a guy do what hes supposed to do WHEN he is supposed to do it.

Now dont get me wrong, i dont think thompson is terrible or bad at all. Ive just noticed that kings fans ten to over value him, and sometimes I've seen ppl throw around stats of other players and suggest thompson is better. I guess where i was wrong was that ppl on this forum have been whipping on him, i was under the impression that it was the opposite so maybe my posts came across like guns blazing.

You happened to throw out the stats in comparison to a couple guys, so implying that i wouldve given up on steve nash after his second year is a bit off base. If anything, your argument/line of thinking would tend to have given up on him based on stats (you used the stats to benchmark players). Not saying you wouldve given up on the guy, but you cant say i wouldve when i am not the one concerned with the stats at all. I've watched nash play from when he was at santa clara, and while he was less refined, his feel and court vision were always pretty clear. I didnt think he wouldve ended up as good as he is, but i certainly would not have given up on him because his talent was clear to me regardless of what numbers may have said.

I like thompson and think he has a role on this team and brings things every nba team needs. But i dont think he is big and would not consider him to be strong. He LOOKS to have average to below average muscle mass for a guy his size:

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/photo_images/9945/60674_Kings_Warriors_Basketball.jpg

To me, it does not look like he spends much time in the weight room, though he did bulk up a bit after year 1. And yes, he would look big if i stood next to him, but he doesnt guard guys my sizs. So it doesnt matter how big he looks to you up close unless you were standing between him and a guy like kenyon martin or nene. (I know it doesnt matter but ive stood next to many other nba post players- shareef, shaq, webber, erik dampier, etc.). If he can continue to work on getting stronger he could be a great big off the bench. And what stats improved from his rookie year? I looked it up and they look almost identical to me considering he played 3 extra minutes a game this year. I think he should focus on making that 15 footer very reliable. I dont know if he will ever be a good low post threat-- and he may not need to be, but you cant tell me he has made progress and point to his stats when no improvement exists. If you said, you just saw a better, more comfortable players, then your opinion may have some weight as he did appear better towards the end of the year. And ok, fine he has had 3 coaches and he was playing along side spencer hawes, and came from a small school---all placing the blame elsewhere even if those are somewhat legit complaints.

 

[WALTtheWIZ]

There's a difference between stats and putting up numbers via opportunity.
There are few good stats that would ever consider Stackhouse better than Miller.
Stats say Ginobili is one of the best players in the NBA, and Rudy Gay is an average player. Don't see a problem there.

Looking at the stats, JT is a good rotation player and borderline starter at 23. That's worth something.

i dont think stats would tell you that ginobili is the best player in the nba. I took a glance and the last couple seasons he is at around 17 ppg, 4.5apg, 4.5rpg, 1.5 spg, 2 topg with good shooting numbers (rough estimates). If the STATS make him one of the best players in the game then every team has one of the best players in the nba on their team. I do think hes one of the best but not b/c of his stats.

I agree with you, JT is a good rotation player.

I was really under the impression that kings fans were in love with JT (just from the circles i run in). And saw a post on here asking if we should trade him for O.J. Mayo. My posts were in relation to that and obviously, that doesnt correlate to the general sentiment.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I've really only been following this thread to the extent that moderators are "supposed" to monitor all of the threads on the board, but I couldn't let this go without remark:

I like thompson and think he has a role on this team and brings things every nba team needs. But i dont think he is big and would not consider him to be strong. He LOOKS to have average to below average muscle mass for a guy his size:

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/photo_images/9945/60674_Kings_Warriors_Basketball.jpg

O RLY?

http://fantastiksports.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/lopez-x2.jpg
http://www.nba.com/media/randolph_500_080728.jpg
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/Marreese Speights.jpg
http://misterirrelevant.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/javale-of-cashmere.jpg
http://www.nba.com/media/bobcats/profile_inside_ajinca.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_OWm4UwpS47k/SJCmjq5ZLII/AAAAAAAAAQU/ACE_hn3L7Yg/s400/koufos_627_080728.jpg
http://content.draftexpress.com/gallery/SergeIbaka/1212911682.jpg
http://blacksportsonline.com/index/pau gasol.jpg
http://ahaynes11.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/kevin-garnett22.jpg
http://ligaliga.co.il/blogs/files/2010/01/1-chris-bosh.png
http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2009/08/07/alg_rashard-lewis.jpg

Thompson has less muscle mass than these guys? Exactly how much muscle mass do you think the average guy Thompson's size has, anyway?

 

[pshn80]

there were years when Jerry stackhouse put up better numbers than Reggie miller, which one would you rather have on your team? Monta Ellis would be one of the best players on the league based on stats, why can't the warriors move him? The way he scores and plays doesnt usually last long and isn't suited for the playoffs. Rudy gay or Manu ginobili?
Keith van horn and raef lafrentz wouldve been prime time franchise players based on their stats for a few years. I mean, guys put up better numbers than Kobe right now, bur come on.
But you know what, forget it, jt is a monster!!! Kings are the best team in the league!!!! Yaaaaaaaa, wooooooh
(and thompson doesn't look big or strong to me but thanks again for the numbers. Put him next to Amare and tell me who looks stronger even tho they have similar measurements. Does jt look as strong as webber to you? Again similar weight)

Thompson is stronger than Webber ever was as a King.

 

[pshn80]

I've dont really like to use stats to argue for or against a player. I would rather watch them play and judge their skillset and what they bring to the team. More importantly, I just like to see how people look out there-- is a guy comfortable with the ball in his hands, is he under control, does he have good court vision, does he seem to be in the right places, take good shots, make the extra pass, and most important does a guy do what hes supposed to do WHEN he is supposed to do it.

Now dont get me wrong, i dont think thompson is terrible or bad at all. Ive just noticed that kings fans ten to over value him, and sometimes I've seen ppl throw around stats of other players and suggest thompson is better. I guess where i was wrong was that ppl on this forum have been whipping on him, i was under the impression that it was the opposite so maybe my posts came across like guns blazing.

You happened to throw out the stats in comparison to a couple guys, so implying that i wouldve given up on steve nash after his second year is a bit off base. If anything, your argument/line of thinking would tend to have given up on him based on stats (you used the stats to benchmark players). Not saying you wouldve given up on the guy, but you cant say i wouldve when i am not the one concerned with the stats at all. I've watched nash play from when he was at santa clara, and while he was less refined, his feel and court vision were always pretty clear. I didnt think he wouldve ended up as good as he is, but i certainly would not have given up on him because his talent was clear to me regardless of what numbers may have said.

I like thompson and think he has a role on this team and brings things every nba team needs. But i dont think he is big and would not consider him to be strong. He LOOKS to have average to below average muscle mass for a guy his size:

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/photo_images/9945/60674_Kings_Warriors_Basketball.jpg

To me, it does not look like he spends much time in the weight room, though he did bulk up a bit after year 1. And yes, he would look big if i stood next to him, but he doesnt guard guys my sizs. So it doesnt matter how big he looks to you up close unless you were standing between him and a guy like kenyon martin or nene. (I know it doesnt matter but ive stood next to many other nba post players- shareef, shaq, webber, erik dampier, etc.). If he can continue to work on getting stronger he could be a great big off the bench. And what stats improved from his rookie year? I looked it up and they look almost identical to me considering he played 3 extra minutes a game this year. I think he should focus on making that 15 footer very reliable. I dont know if he will ever be a good low post threat-- and he may not need to be, but you cant tell me he has made progress and point to his stats when no improvement exists. If you said, you just saw a better, more comfortable players, then your opinion may have some weight as he did appear better towards the end of the year. And ok, fine he has had 3 coaches and he was playing along side spencer hawes, and came from a small school---all placing the blame elsewhere even if those are somewhat legit complaints.

Hey, come on to Sacramento and watch a few games. There's nothing wrong with your views on Thompson that some time in the seats at Arco won't cure.

 

[Dreadnought]

Thompson is stronger than Webber ever was as a King.

I really don't think that is true at all.. Webber was a great player who had both finesse and the ability to rough other players. Thompson just isn't that.

 

[pshn80]

I really don't think that is true at all.. Webber was a great player who had both finesse and the ability to rough other players. Thompson just isn't that.

What you say about Webber I agree with but Thompson is stronger - not in the same league as a player but stronger.

 

[Bricklayer]

No, he's really not.

For his size Jason isn't terribly strong really. He still gets bounced in there, has fairly unimpressive muscular development and really needs to dedicate himself to lifting one of these years. He gets by because he is 6'11", and that's an inherent advantage. But if he were 6'8" with the same relative body he would be in real trouble.

Now Webb was often accused of being finesse, and ins ome ways he was. But he also always had an Adonis body, and until the legs went could bang with almost all of the bigs of his time:

He was actually already more built up than Jason as a 20yr old at Michigan:

 

[WALTtheWIZ]

Yes...both lopez brothers added significant muscle (Thompson has added some but not nearly as much). You can tell that Thompson hasn't hit the weights hard for very long but I like that he seems to be working on it, he knows he needs to add strength. I have followed kg's career and he really began making strides in strength staring in his last couple years in sota and in my opinion greatly helped his on ball defense. He was always a very good defender and became a force as he added muscle. So yes he has more muscle mass than jt and to me it's obvious. Same goes for bosh, he has added to his body significantly since 03.
Basketball is mostly lower body and core stength more than upperbody, though that helps also. It's difficult to see lower body muscle but for the most part you can tell how much time a player is spending in the weight room by looking at their upper body since it's easier to gauge. In that regard, you can't tell me that jt looks like he has been lifting serious weights for more than one year. From his traps to his shoulders to cheat to forearms, he has little definition or size. What I meant before was that he has a good frame, he is wide shoulder to shoulder but is underdeveloped muscularly. His body has lots of room for bulk which is a good thing if he continues to work hard. But guys like boozer, Amare, Odense, bynum, David west hit the weights hard and it shows....jt is simply not there yet and i'd say has average to below average strength. A part of me feels like the stronger he gets the more comfortable he will feel under the basket and the better finisher he will become. I'm glad he's working on it, b/c he needs to.

Webber hit the weights hard and he was strong as bull, give me a break. The guy put in work and you could tell. It got to the point that after his knee injury their were rumblings over the fact that he wouldn't lose weight (muscle > fat) at the request of management to take pressure off his knees. He eventually did and it was the right thing to do. Jason Thompson is not as strong as webber was for us. Let's not confuse hustle anda willingness to bang for strength or muscularity. Webber may not have used his strength the way we all wanted but a stronger jt would improve his game immensely

 

[bajaden]

I've dont really like to use stats to argue for or against a player. I would rather watch them play and judge their skillset and what they bring to the team. More importantly, I just like to see how people look out there-- is a guy comfortable with the ball in his hands, is he under control, does he have good court vision, does he seem to be in the right places, take good shots, make the extra pass, and most important does a guy do what hes supposed to do WHEN he is supposed to do it.

Now dont get me wrong, i dont think thompson is terrible or bad at all. Ive just noticed that kings fans ten to over value him, and sometimes I've seen ppl throw around stats of other players and suggest thompson is better. I guess where i was wrong was that ppl on this forum have been whipping on him, i was under the impression that it was the opposite so maybe my posts came across like guns blazing.

You happened to throw out the stats in comparison to a couple guys, so implying that i wouldve given up on steve nash after his second year is a bit off base. If anything, your argument/line of thinking would tend to have given up on him based on stats (you used the stats to benchmark players). Not saying you wouldve given up on the guy, but you cant say i wouldve when i am not the one concerned with the stats at all. I've watched nash play from when he was at santa clara, and while he was less refined, his feel and court vision were always pretty clear. I didnt think he wouldve ended up as good as he is, but i certainly would not have given up on him because his talent was clear to me regardless of what numbers may have said.

I like thompson and think he has a role on this team and brings things every nba team needs. But i dont think he is big and would not consider him to be strong. He LOOKS to have average to below average muscle mass for a guy his size:

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/photo_images/9945/60674_Kings_Warriors_Basketball.jpg

To me, it does not look like he spends much time in the weight room, though he did bulk up a bit after year 1. And yes, he would look big if i stood next to him, but he doesnt guard guys my sizs. So it doesnt matter how big he looks to you up close unless you were standing between him and a guy like kenyon martin or nene. (I know it doesnt matter but ive stood next to many other nba post players- shareef, shaq, webber, erik dampier, etc.). If he can continue to work on getting stronger he could be a great big off the bench. And what stats improved from his rookie year? I looked it up and they look almost identical to me considering he played 3 extra minutes a game this year. I think he should focus on making that 15 footer very reliable. I dont know if he will ever be a good low post threat-- and he may not need to be, but you cant tell me he has made progress and point to his stats when no improvement exists. If you said, you just saw a better, more comfortable players, then your opinion may have some weight as he did appear better towards the end of the year. And ok, fine he has had 3 coaches and he was playing along side spencer hawes, and came from a small school---all placing the blame elsewhere even if those are somewhat legit complaints.

First off, when I saw Thompson up close he was standing right next to Greene and Landry. He was considerably bigger than both. And by bigger I don't mean taller. You finished by saying that my explaining about three coaches and playing with Hawes as laying blame somewhere else. I don't see any blame to be placed. Your the one placing blame, not me. My expectations are obviously less than yours. I figured it would take Thompson at least three years to have the light come on and for him to be what he's going to be. I thought he started last year fine and then went into a funk, which he didn't come out of until returned from the injury and started with Landry.

From everything I read, Thompson spends a lot of time in the weight room, and to be honest, your the first person I can remember criticizing Thompson for being too weak or undersized. If you want me to place more blame, as you put it. Remember he was a pt guard in highschool. Then he was a SG then a SF and then a Center. As he grew from 6'4" to 6'11" in four years of college. When we drafted him I stated that he was still getting used to his body and it would take him time to adjust. A lot of bigs that grow that fast in a short period of time are somewhat clumsey in their movements for a while. Now thats not an excuse, its just what it is.

I also followed Steve Nash at Santa Clara. As you know I'm a big college fan. I'd be less than honest if I said that I thought Nash would be as good as he turned out to be. After his third season I started to think that he was as good as he was going to be. He played out of control. Left his feet with no one to pass to. His shot was erratic and he turned the ball over too much. None of that has anything to do with his skill set, which is an entirely different issue. He had good handles and was a very good passer. He seemed to have good court vision. He wasn't a great athlete, but played with a lot of change of direction and quickness that enabled him to get open. My problem was with his decision making. At one point I remember telling my son that Bibby will end up being a much better point guard.

Well I was wrong in a big way. Not the first time and won't be the last. But it'll be a long time before I give up on a player too early again. So I'm not about to give up on Thompson just yet. I may end up being wrong about him. But I'd like to find out before shipping him out and then watching him play in an all star game for someone else. And by the way, if you were to go back and read posts from last year, you'll find that Thompson's name probably comes up as trade bait more than anyone else's, except maybe for Nocioni.

 

[bajaden]

Lower body strength was mentioned, and in my opinion is the most important strength for playing in the post. But lets not get carried away here with this strength thing. I've been watching basketball for 50 years and I've seem some guys that were a lot smaller in definition than Thompson hold their own in the post. Thompsons main problem isn't strength. Its technique and footwork. Its all about leverage and how you set up and use your body. No one will accuse Pau Gasol of being Mr. Universe, but he does a good job of defending in the post. He has excellent footwork. Having good length doesn't hurt him either.

This doesn't mean I don't think he should get stronger. Of course he should. And I'm sure he will. But no one can accuse him of being out of shape. His motor never quits, and thats just as important as lifting 300 pounds over your head. I've see a lot of very strong players that couldn't stay on the court for more than 5 or 6 minutes without getting winded. The trick is find the right combination of strength and indurance that doesn't start to limit your agility, or athleticism if you will.

 

[Sparky6string]

Yeah it's physics. Hakeem had great strength in the post as much because of his low center of gravity as his muscularity. JT has a high center of gravity so he needs to squat some when he gets a forearm on someone.

 

[WALTtheWIZ]

Hey, come on to Sacramento and watch a few games. There's nothing wrong with your views on Thompson that some time in the seats at Arco won't cure.

Not to sound like a dbag, but I watched all the kings games the last few years and was a season ticket holder for ten years before that. I've been lucky enough to watch a lot of games over the years.

I'm sure others have seen more games than me, but I think I've seen enough to be convinced that jt is uncomfortable on the block (looks incredibily rushed) and is not a good finisher. He also fouls a lot on d by playing defense with his arms and hands. Building strength could help these things but ultimately I think his calling card will be hustling, rebounding and spot up jumpers. Baja made a good point on his ball handling which I think may or may not be used in the future but is nice to have.

Saying jt is stronger than webber is absolutely ridiculous to me, but seems like a lot of you guys see things differently than I do.

 

[Sparky6string]

There is not a single player in the league that doesn't have flaws. Everyone has something to work on, so to point out that JT has flaws just means that he is an NBA player. I don't remember many complaining about the Mailman when I lived in Utah, or Duncan too much no matter where I lived, but other than that I have never seen a PF that people didn't complain about on some level. What's mostly going on here is some are focusing on the empty half of the glass and others on the full half.

JT has things he needs to work on including staying calm at all times etc but this does not mean he is not valuable. His stats show that he is effective, and whether or not he is beautiful to watch he gets work done. What he brings is valuable in the NBA- size, tenacity, desire. The fans of every team have a forum where they sit around and de-construct their players and focus on the bad rather than the good. I guarantee if we trade JT for another PF we will find faults in him as well and complain.

 

[WALTtheWIZ]

Lower body strength was mentioned, and in my opinion is the most important strength for playing in the post. But lets not get carried away here with this strength thing. I've been watching basketball for 50 years and I've seem some guys that were a lot smaller in definition than Thompson hold their own in the post. Thompsons main problem isn't strength. Its technique and footwork. Its all about leverage and how you set up and use your body. No one will accuse Pau Gasol of being Mr. Universe, but he does a good job of defending in the post. He has excellent footwork. Having good length doesn't hurt him either.

This doesn't mean I don't think he should get stronger. Of course he should. And I'm sure he will. But no one can accuse him of being out of shape. His motor never quits, and thats just as important as lifting 300 pounds over your head. I've see a lot of very
strong players that couldn't stay on the court for more than 5 or 6 minutes without
getting winded. The trick is find the right combination of strength and indurance that
doesn't start to limit your agility, or athleticism if you will.

I agree with this. Well said.

Where I thing we diverge is that I don't think jt is as skilled as others do. Building strength could help some of the weaknesses which I think he has and pointed out in other posts.

But you're right basketball is a skill game and ultimately that's what wins. Good examples with the hakeem and pau references. I don't think jt will develop that "type" of game (and I'm sure no one expects him to) so I think strength would compliment the way he plays best.

 

[pshn80]

Not to sound like a dbag, but I watched all the kings games the last few years and was a season ticket holder for ten years before that. I've been lucky enough to watch a lot of games over the years.

I'm sure others have seen more games than me, but I think I've seen enough to be convinced that jt is uncomfortable on the block (looks incredibily rushed) and is not a good finisher. He also fouls a lot on d by playing defense with his arms and hands. Building strength could help these things but ultimately I think his calling card will be hustling, rebounding and spot up jumpers. Baja made a good point on his ball handling which I think may or may not be used in the future but is nice to have.

Saying jt is stronger than webber is absolutely ridiculous to me, but seems like a lot of you guys see things differently than I do.

Sorry to have impuned your Kings watching. Maybe it's that you haven't read our posters enough that you think the group is too high on Thompson. What you say in bold above has been well established on this venue. I don't think Thompson's value has been miss-perceived.

 

[Bricklayer]

I agree with this. Well said.

Where I thing we diverge is that I don't think jt is as skilled as others do. Building strength could help some of the weaknesses which I think he has and pointed out in other posts.

But you're right basketball is a skill game and ultimately that's what wins. Good examples with the hakeem and pau references. I don't think jt will develop that "type" of game (and I'm sure no one expects him to) so I think strength would compliment the way he plays best.

Anybody who doesn't think Hakeem was strong just didn't get to watch him play. Dude was a rock in there. I don't remember how the Shaq battles went, but anybody else, he just stoned them.

Pau is obviously all about the length, and that said, since when did this stupid Pau myth originate? This past year was the firswt itme he was anything but mediocre on the boards or defense, and his phycial weakness has long been part of it. Apparently Kobe nd Phil go ton him ot hit the weights more, and he responds with his best defensive/rebounding season. Go figure.

 

[bajaden]

Anybody who doesn't think Hakeem was strong just didn't get to watch him play. Dude was a rock in there. I don't remember how the Shaq battles went, but anybody else, he just stoned them.

Pau is obviously all about the length, and that said, since when did this stupid Pau myth originate? This past year was the firswt itme he was anything but mediocre on the boards or defense, and his phycial weakness has long been part of it. Apparently Kobe nd Phil go ton him ot hit the weights more, and he responds with his best defensive/rebounding season. Go figure.

He was in his stealth mode before. Truth is, sometimes your as good as those you play with. Take Bynum off the lakers and put him in Toronto, and I doubt he nearly as effective. For whatever reason, Gasol has played much better since arriving at the Lakers. As for Hakeem. He was just a special player. Super athlete with excellent quickness for a big man. His fade away baseline shot was simply unstoppable.