Interesting STATS after 6 pre-season games

[CruzDude]

Looking at stats (averages) for the Kings thru 6 pre-season games some interesting bits fall out. For example, on the good side Kings are:

9th best in steals at 9.3/gm
10th best in points scored at 99.5
20th in turn overs at 17/gm meaning only 10 teams have less so far
3rd best in free throw shooting at 82%

But you know not all is well so far in pre-season. Kings are:

5th worst in personal fouls with 25/game
#21 in FG % at 41.9%
#18 in 3PT % at only 33.6%

To me the most important so far are how well they are doing in steals and keeping TO's down. Scoring is good especially their FT at 82%.

But most glaring are the personal fouls with Cuz at 4th worst in league and JT 9th worst. Worse yet is that 2 of 3 worse than Cuz are rookies, Sullinger and Leonard with Jan Vesely in the worst 3 as well.

Whats is all mean? Progress in some important areas of defense (steals), ball handling (low TO's) and points both total and FT%. Areas needing work on offense being shooting (FG% and 3PT %).

 

[Padrino]

Looking at stats (averages) for the Kings thru 6 pre-season games some interesting bits fall out. For example, on the good side Kings are:

9th best in steals at 9.3/gm
10th best in points scored at 99.5
20th in turn overs at 17/gm meaning only 10 teams have less so far
3rd best in free throw shooting at 82%

But you know not all is well so far in pre-season. Kings are:

5th worst in personal fouls with 25/game
#21 in FG % at 41.9%
#18 in 3PT % at only 33.6%

To me the most important so far are how well they are doing in steals and keeping TO's down. Scoring is good especially their FT at 82%.

But most glaring are the personal fouls with Cuz at 4th worst in league and JT 9th worst. Worse yet is that 2 of 3 worse than Cuz are rookies, Sullinger and Leonard with Jan Vesely in the worst 3 as well.

Whats is all mean? Progress in some important areas of defense (steals), ball handling (low TO's) and points both total and FT%. Areas needing work on offense being shooting (FG% and 3PT %).

the foul issue is symptomatic of the greater ill that is keith smart's defensive strategy, which asks of the players that they reach in, gamble, and overplay the passing lanes. its bad enough that this kings team is undisciplined on defense, but it gets worse when their head coach encourages bad defensive habits, particularly for a young player like demarcus cousins who is already so foul prone!!

 

[Kings Faithful]

Our team does have some foul issues we have to work out... but I'm going to believe playing the Lakers twice in the last few games is going to inflate that.

 

[Bricklayer]

The biggest concern right now is the FG%. Reke and IT have struggled from the field. TRob is shooting .380 after shooting .380 in summer league as well. And the fouls and low FG% will hold back Boogie once again if he does not clean that up.

The good news is that we have had teamwide defensive hustle for the first time in forever, and that alone will give us wins as long as we don't mess with our personnel/rotations too badly.

 

[Sac.1989]

Reke is my biggest concern. We need his A game if we have any shot at a winning record and reaching our potential this season. He's got to figure out how to get it done in our offense and hes got to be effective without always having the ball.

 

[mac]

the foul issue is symptomatic of the greater ill that is keith smart's defensive strategy, which asks of the players that they reach in, gamble, and overplay the passing lanes. its bad enough that this kings team is undisciplined on defense, but it gets worse when their head coach encourages bad defensive habits, particularly for a young player like demarcus cousins who is already so foul prone!!

I'd like to add my take towards this whole reaching-in thing. I could be way off and totally wrong but it's just an alternative viewpoint, and I'll use Tyreke specifically for this example. I think that our guards are gambling for steals and reaching in a lot more trying to get steals because our bigs aren't getting them the ball early on in transition. So take Tyreke for example. He's never been known to gamble much for steals, yet in the preseason we've seen him gambling for them a whole lot more in terms of passing lanes and reaching in from behind the man he's guarding to poke the ball away instead of trying to keep up with the offensive player when he drives. I think that it is possible that he's doing this because that's the only way he's going to get the ball in the open court, where he excels. JT, Cuz and TRob have been insistent on pushing the ball up on their own any time they have it in transition, and getting it to their guards late. This completely nullifies the ability of our guards to run in the open court, change their pace etc. Imagine Boris Diaw or Tim Duncan getting the rebound and then pushing it up, passing the ball to Tony Parker only near the 3 point line, where Parker is then supposed to catch the ball, take a step and lay the ball up.

On our team, the only guard who excels at finishing in transition after just catching the ball like that is Marcus Thornton. Both IT and Evans on the other hand, are guys who like to put the ball down and use their quickness to get themselves a wide open path to the rim.

 

[Section 101]

I'd like to add my take towards this whole reaching-in thing. I could be way off and totally wrong but it's just an alternative viewpoint, and I'll use Tyreke specifically for this example. I think that our guards are gambling for steals and reaching in a lot more trying to get steals because our bigs aren't getting them the ball early on in transition. So take Tyreke for example. He's never been known to gamble much for steals, yet in the preseason we've seen him gambling for them a whole lot more in terms of passing lanes and reaching in from behind the man he's guarding to poke the ball away instead of trying to keep up with the offensive player when he drives. I think that it is possible that he's doing this because that's the only way he's going to get the ball in the open court, where he excels. JT, Cuz and TRob have been insistent on pushing the ball up on their own any time they have it in transition, and getting it to their guards late. This completely nullifies the ability of our guards to run in the open court, change their pace etc. Imagine Boris Diaw or Tim Duncan getting the rebound and then pushing it up, passing the ball to Tony Parker only near the 3 point line, where Parker is then supposed to catch the ball, take a step and lay the ball up.

On our team, the only guard who excels at finishing in transition after just catching the ball like that is Marcus Thornton. Both IT and Evans on the other hand, are guys who like to put the ball down and use their quickness to get themselves a wide open path to the rim.

LOL, He gambles 90% of the time in transition. Rarely does he get back instead of going for a steal at mid court. Thornton does the same thing too BTW.

As for the bigs not giving up the ball how about the guards pass to the bigs for layups instead of driving into 2 defenders.

 

[Spike]

In transition? Usually the bigs are trailing and not in the play. Robinson should change that, as he would probably look to finish some of these plays, but otherwise you're giving up on the transition in order to go into half-court, which is fine if the drive is ill-advised, but if the defense isn't set, I don't see why you would stop.

I do agree with the main problem that the emphasis seems to be on gambling rather than proper positioning and team defense. A good solid defensive plan will probably lead to more stops, but fewer transition opportunities unless you have guards rebounding off long misses or you teach a good transition plan, which seems antithetical to what this team has been taught to do.

I guess we'll get a better sense of what the team structure(s) should look like soon, since there's no way we can assume anything based on preseason, other than Smart is throwing the noodles against the fridge to see what sticks.

 

[mac]

LOL, He gambles 90% of the time in transition. Rarely does he get back instead of going for a steal at mid court. Thornton does the same thing too BTW.

As for the bigs not giving up the ball how about the guards pass to the bigs for layups instead of driving into 2 defenders.

Who's talking about transition here? We're talking about in a half court setting. How about the guards pass to the bigs? How many friggin times has JT gotten open dunks when he's running with the guards in transition? Seriously, the fact that you're defending/advocating the bigs pushing the ball in transition, just because they apparently don't get the ball just makes me laugh. Nevermind, don't you worry.

This entire forum is becoming ridiculous. You can't say a single ****ing thing without one of these guys jumping in and saying something negative about Tyreke Evans. Oh, Cousins picked up 5 fouls today. It was cos Evans didn't play good D. Oh, Jimmer shot 1-50. It was because Tyreke didn't get him the ball in good spots. Oh, Keith Smart ****ed around with the lineups and played 15 guys. It's because Tyreke doesn't have a position.

Why don't you and your fellow haters just make some signs and hold Trade Evans protests outside the arena? Can't discuss a damn thing about the team in general anymore without it becoming about how bad Tyreke is.

 

[Npliam]

The biggest concern right now is the FG%. Reke and IT have struggled from the field. TRob is shooting .380 after shooting .380 in summer league as well. And the fouls and low FG% will hold back Boogie once again if he does not clean that up.

The good news is that we have had teamwide defensive hustle for the first time in forever, and that alone will give us wins as long as we don't mess with our personnel/rotations too badly.

I agree with this and have said that the biggest thing that will hold Boogie back in his development is his lack of offensive efficiency. Dribbling coast to coast in traffic and making tough shots in an athletically impressive fashion is cool for highlight reels and to energize a crowd but if you only make 40% of those shots you aren't going to win. That said boogie has been getting to the foul line a ton and making his free throws. I think he had a stat line of something like 5-15 but scored 23 ish points (too lazy to look it up) which is like 1.5 points per shot. That will win games despite the poor shooting percentage.

Agree on his need to stay out of foul trouble.

 

[Kingster]

Has Smart actually said that he wants more gambling on defense - more reaching for steals?
Or is this supposition of what Smart has said based upon how the Kings have been playing?

 

[Section 101]

Who's talking about transition here? We're talking about in a half court setting. How about the guards pass to the bigs? How many friggin times has JT gotten open dunks when he's running with the guards in transition? Seriously, the fact that you're defending/advocating the bigs pushing the ball in transition, just because they apparently don't get the ball just makes me laugh. Nevermind, don't you worry.

This entire forum is becoming ridiculous. You can't say a single ****ing thing without one of these guys jumping in and saying something negative about Tyreke Evans. Oh, Cousins picked up 5 fouls today. It was cos Evans didn't play good D. Oh, Jimmer shot 1-50. It was because Tyreke didn't get him the ball in good spots. Oh, Keith Smart ****ed around with the lineups and played 15 guys. It's because Tyreke doesn't have a position.

Why don't you and your fellow haters just make some signs and hold Trade Evans protests outside the arena? Can't discuss a damn thing about the team in general anymore without it becoming about how bad Tyreke is.

Evans gambles plenty in the half court too getting out of position. And he has since his rookie season. Remember his steal on Arenas that everyone loves to use to defend his defense? Gambled and won that one. If he misses Arenas is by him.

I never said the bigs should be pushing it, but many of the times the guards are not coming to get the ball. They are breaking out themselves. Don't listen to Jerry Reynolds when he says the big needs to find the guard. The majority of the time the guard needs to find the ball. The big just can't pass it to pass it. Surprisingly the only guard who consistently comes to get the ball is Jimmer.

 

[Kingster]

I agree that shooting percentage is the most important negative stat. That indicates to me that there will be more emphasis by Smart to play more minutes of those players with higher shooting percentage; less minutes of those with lower shooting percentage. At the minimum he needs to play two guys in the lineup with pretty high shooting percentage.

Also, with respect to Cousins, he just needs to have a little more discretion on his shots. For example, If IT is wide open at the 3 point line, he shouldn't be putting up a fallaway jump shot from 14 feet away from the basket. I don't think Cousins is selfish in the true sense of the word, I just think he's overly aggressive. He needs to have some more patience and when he gets the ball assess what's going on out on the floor.

 

[Section 101]

Has Smart actually said that he wants more gambling on defense - more reaching for steals?
Or is this supposition of what Smart has said based upon how the Kings have been playing?

He said he wants to play the passing lanes more. But he always says that they reach too much and not move their feet.

 

[Arkitect]

Who's talking about transition here? We're talking about in a half court setting. How about the guards pass to the bigs? How many friggin times has JT gotten open dunks when he's running with the guards in transition? Seriously, the fact that you're defending/advocating the bigs pushing the ball in transition, just because they apparently don't get the ball just makes me laugh. Nevermind, don't you worry.

This entire forum is becoming ridiculous. You can't say a single ****ing thing without one of these guys jumping in and saying something negative about Tyreke Evans. Oh, Cousins picked up 5 fouls today. It was cos Evans didn't play good D. Oh, Jimmer shot 1-50. It was because Tyreke didn't get him the ball in good spots. Oh, Keith Smart ****ed around with the lineups and played 15 guys. It's because Tyreke doesn't have a position.

Why don't you and your fellow haters just make some signs and hold Trade Evans protests outside the arena? Can't discuss a damn thing about the team in general anymore without it becoming about how bad Tyreke is.

Yeah for whatever reason Reke is just a polarizing player. While his development is important, we have many, many more problems than just him.

 

[mac]

Evans gambles plenty in the half court too getting out of position. And he has since his rookie season. Remember his steal on Arenas that everyone loves to use to defend his defense? Gambled and won that one. If he misses Arenas is by him.

I never said the bigs should be pushing it, but many of the times the guards are not coming to get the ball. They are breaking out themselves. Don't listen to Jerry Reynolds when he says the big needs to find the guard. The majority of the time the guard needs to find the ball. The big just can't pass it to pass it. Surprisingly the only guard who consistently comes to get the ball is Jimmer.

So pray tell how a guard is supposed to be a good defender if he doesn't sometimes reach in? I wouldn't call all reaching in gambling. His steal on Arenas came from the front as Arenas tried to go past him. I wouldn't call that gambling though I can see where you're coming from.

I don't understand how come it's apparently hard for a big to pass the ball in front or to a guard running alongside him, such that the guard needs to "find the ball", but it's easy for the big to dribble the ball down the court and lay out a perfect bounce pass or something to a guard right at the rim.

 

[Kingster]

He said he wants to play the passing lanes more. But he always says that they reach too much and not move their feet.

Ok. That's not a problem then. Seems pretty sane to me. Thanks.

 

[Section 101]

So pray tell how a guard is supposed to be a good defender if he doesn't sometimes reach in? I wouldn't call all reaching in gambling. His steal on Arenas came from the front as Arenas tried to go past him. I wouldn't call that gambling though I can see where you're coming from.

I don't understand how come it's apparently hard for a big to pass the ball in front or to a guard running alongside him, such that the guard needs to "find the ball", but it's easy for the big to dribble the ball down the court and lay out a perfect bounce pass or something to a guard right at the rim.

It's a gamble in that if you don't poke the ball away you have given up your defensive position.

That's the problem with the guards. When you see the big man with the ball the guards are probably a head of them. Usually the big gets the ball, looks for a guard, doesn't have a pass to the guard, his defender is running back so he can dribble up the court. The problem is when a defender meets the big they need to pass the ball, but if a guard isn't making themselves available he's got no where to go.

 

[Bricklayer]

It's a gamble in that if you don't poke the ball away you have given up your defensive position.

Its a gamble that virtually every top defensive guard takes. Tony Allen takes it. Rajon Rondo takes it. But Reke takes it and its a sign of undisciplined behavior.

 

[Section 101]

Its a gamble that virtually every top defensive guard takes. Tony Allen takes it. Rajon Rondo takes it. But Reke takes it and its a sign of undisciplined behavior.

You missed the point. It was stated that Evans doesn't gamble in the half court. I said he does and gave an example.

 

[rainmaker]

Evans gambles plenty in the half court too getting out of position. And he has since his rookie season. Remember his steal on Arenas that everyone loves to use to defend his defense? Gambled and won that one. If he misses Arenas is by him.

I never said the bigs should be pushing it, but many of the times the guards are not coming to get the ball. They are breaking out themselves. Don't listen to Jerry Reynolds when he says the big needs to find the guard. The majority of the time the guard needs to find the ball. The big just can't pass it to pass it. Surprisingly the only guard who consistently comes to get the ball is Jimmer.

You mean like against LA when TRob dribbled up the floor and lost it near halfcourt because instead of coming back to get the ball Jimmer was already spotting up on the right wing for 3?

Even my fiance was yelling, why isn't Jimmer acting as an outlet for TRob and is instead all the way down the floor spotting up, isn't he the PG? Now when Reke clearly isn't he PG, and Smart rarely has him setting up the offense, it's Reke getting blamed for not coming back and getting the ball, instead of the guy Smart charged with setting up the offense, you know, the actual PG.

 

[rainmaker]

You missed the point. It was stated that Evans doesn't gamble in the half court. I said he does and gave an example.

Being squared up to the guy you're guarding, and picking his pocket on an attempted crossover to win a game, three years ago, is quite a poor example. Being squared up to a defender, low, and being able to put your hand between his knees and the floor, to stop a crossover and get the steal is something you're taught at an early age. It's actually a good example of when you're supposed to go for a steal.

If the offensive player has the ball off his right hip, and looking to crossover, you get in him and put your right hand low, inside his left shin to block the crossover attempt. Left hand shading the ball, right hand blocking the crossover. Defense 101. If the ball is off the left hip, it's the opposite with the left hand low. If the offensive player tries to crossover anyway and ends up getting picked, it isn't some poor gamble by the defender. Reke executed there what is taught by coaches all over.

 

[Section 101]

You mean like against LA when TRob dribbled up the floor and lost it near halfcourt because instead of coming back to get the ball Jimmer was already spotting up on the right wing for 3?

Even my fiance was yelling, why isn't Jimmer acting as an outlet for TRob and is instead all the way down the floor spotting up, isn't he the PG? Now when Reke clearly isn't he PG, and Smart rarely has him setting up the offense, it's Reke getting blamed for not coming back and getting the ball, instead of the guy Smart charged with setting up the offense, you know, the actual PG.

Oh boy you picked one time. It's hard to say who's responsibility it was at that particular time without specifics. Now if Jimmer the first guy on the break he shouldn't be coming back. Watch for it next time. Jimmer comes back to get the ball when we get rebounds or steals. The other guards either run up the court or wait for the ball to come to them.

 

[Section 101]

Being squared up to the guy you're guarding, and picking his pocket on an attempted crossover to win a game, three years ago, is quite a poor example. Being squared up to a defender, low, and being able to put your hand between his knees and the floor, to stop a crossover and get the steal is something you're taught at an early age. It's actually a good example of when you're supposed to go for a steal.

If the offensive player has the ball off his right hip, and looking to crossover, you get in him and put your right hand low, inside his left shin to block the crossover attempt. Left hand shading the ball, right hand blocking the crossover. Defense 101. If the ball is off the left hip, it's the opposite with the left hand low. If the offensive player tries to crossover anyway and ends up getting picked, it isn't some poor gamble by the defender. Reke executed there what is taught by coaches all over.

So you agree he does gamble in the half court. Good !

 

[CruzDude]

Thats what I like about averages, % percentage for a team. If one player raises his scoring average 10 % points, it likely only affects the team average by 1.0 or 1.5 % points. The idea of the averages was to look at TEAM OFFENSE and TEAM DEFENSE. Cuz down low taking 1-2 offensive rebounds for each put back is one issue affecting poor shooting. Not taking open shots is another. Slipping back into 1-on-1 offense yet another problem. Being set for a 3 instead of pushing the shot is another issue. A lot to learn for a very young team.

Having a lower turn over rate shows ball movement is better in the pre-season environment.

On defense, we need to get off finger pointing and harping on the "reaching-in" problem. Help defense goes a long way to improving defense and can be an incentive to stop reaching so much because if the ball handler sees a rotation in his way to the bucket he may change his mind. Increased steals helps offset the reaching in fouls, if those fouls are kept to a minimum.

I'll look at these same stats after 10 games then again after 20 games to see what is improving or not.

 

[Bricklayer]

You missed the point. It was stated that Evans doesn't gamble in the half court. I said he does and gave an example.

If he "gambles" like the top guys gamble, then he's not gambling, he's playing good defense on that play.

but we all know what this is about Section. Its been embarrassing for three years now. If Reke didn't gamble on that play it would be "he's passive and doesn't give effort". Its got nothing to do with him at all. And everything to do with you, and not in a complimentary fashion.

 

[Section 101]

If he "gambles" like the top guys gamble, then he's not gambling, he's playing good defense on that play.

but we all know what this is about Section. Its been embarrassing for three years now. If Reke didn't gamble on that play it would be "he's passive and doesn't give effort". Its got nothing to do with him at all. And everything to do with you, and not in a complimentary fashion.

I think your the one embarrassed. Since everyone in the nation and coaching staff see Evans for what he is. You were the one who was wrong.

 

[Bricklayer]

I think your the one embarrassed. Since everyone in the nation and coaching staff see Evans for what he is. You were the one who was wrong.

Section, on this issue you give all the appearance of being the jerk who screams at the waitress in the restaraunt. Your conduct is embarrassing, and the fact you can't see that is worse yet. I shouldn't have to make this statement to someone with as many years of Kings fandom under his belt as you. You aren't fair, have no interest in being fair, and gleefully try to slime Reke at every opportunity. The target of your affections isn't important. The fact you would conduct yourself this way toward ANY member of the Kings is the problem. Hell, if you conducted yourself this way toward any member of the Lakers it would still look ridiculous. There really is nothing to distinguish your hatred of Reke from that of a troll from a Lakers board coming on here. Its incessant, immature, and disruptive in the extreme. Its all you want to talk about. Even when you appear to post on another topic, you are still angling at Reke. Nobody questions your overall Kings fandom, but this is really a dark blot on it and its like you are embracing a crusade. Cruz didn't start this thread so that you could hijack it into another Reke is horrible mess.

 

[Section 101]

Section, you give all the appearance of being the jerk who screams at the waitress in the restaraunt. Your conduct is embarrassing, and the fact you can't see that is worse yet. You aren't fair, have no interest in being fair, and gleefully try to slime Reke at every opportunity. The target of your affections isn't important. The fact you would conduct yourself this way toward ANY member of the Kings is the problem. Hell, if you conducted yourself this way toward any member of the Lakers it would still look ridiculous. There really is nothing to distinguish your hatred of Reke from that of a troll from a Lakers board coming on here. Its incessant, immature, and disruptive in the extreme. Its all you want to talk about. Cruz didn't start this thread so that you could hijack it into another Reke is horrible mess.

Funny, how I even posted earlier and the end of last year how Evans was playing the best ball since his rookie year. But everyone is hung up on him being the PG. People keep talking about he's not a SF well he is a worse PG than SF and the team is worse with him as a PG than SF.

Oh and BTW I didn't bring up Evans in the thread Mac did. In fact, I rarely bring up Evans at all unless someone posts something about him that isn't true.

Also note that you didn't refute what I said as being not true.

 

[sdballer]

Funny, how I even posted earlier and the end of last year how Evans was playing the best ball since his rookie year. But everyone is hung up on him being the PG. People keep talking about he's not a SF well he is a worse PG than SF and the team is worse with him as a PG than SF.

Oh and BTW I didn't bring up Evans in the thread Mac did. In fact, I rarely bring up Evans at all unless someone posts something about him that isn't true.

Also note that you didn't refute what I said as being not true.

Better based on what? He was worse statistically at sf and the role he has poorly fits his skills. And the whole "team was better with him at sf" has been effectively challenged so many times it's no longer funny. But don't let facts get in the way of your petty nonsense.