Interesting STATS after 6 pre-season games

[Section 101]

Better based on what? He was worse statistically at sf and the role he has poorly fits his skills. And the whole "team was better with him at sf" has been effectively challenged so many times it's no longer funny. But don't let facts get in the way of your petty nonsense.

I said the team is better with him at SF than PG. Not that he should be the SF. I've said from day 1 he should be a SG. Oh btw, the majority of people in the national and NBA media think his best position is SF.

Here ya go it's even a post by Brick on his stats last year.

http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?45521

 

[sdballer]

I said the team is better with him at SF than PG. Not that he should be the SF. I've said from day 1 he should be a SG. Oh btw, the majority of people in the national and NBA media think his best position is SF.

Here ya go it's even a post by Brick on his stats last year.

http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?45521

Ok the team is better with him at sf based on what? And where is your evidence on what the majority of the league thinks?

 

[Section 101]

Ok the team is better with him at sf based on what? And where is your evidence on what the majority of the league thinks?

Guess you haven't been watching any NBA preview shows.

 

[sdballer]

Guess you haven't been watching any NBA preview shows.

Actually I have. There have been a couple on the kings though I'm not sure that guys like Rick kamla are necessarily representative of the majority of nba press.

I see you also continue to dodge the question of how the team has proven to be so much better with Evans at the 3 but that's probably wise.

 

[Section 101]

Actually I have. There have been a couple on the kings though I'm not sure that guys like Rick kamla are necessarily representative of the majority of nba press.

I see you also continue to dodge the question of how the team has proven to be so much better with Evans at the 3 but that's probably wise.

Why? Not specifically about at the 3, but better ball movement, half court execution, decision making and faster pace.

 

[Kingsguy881]

INTERNET BRAWL!!!!! Lol...

 

[Section 101]

INTERNET BRAWL!!!!! Lol...

Would rather watch the games and have some drinks !

hmm, Opening night is on a Wed. Hooters, beer and wings. Is it still all you can eat wings on Wed?

On the down side there is a high chance of the world series still being on and not getting a good screen. Oh and it's Halloween.

 

[PacMan]

Why? Not specifically about at the 3, but better ball movement, half court execution, decision making and faster pace.

and did we win any more game with him as the SF than with him as the PG??

 

[mac]

Guess you haven't been watching any NBA preview shows.

The national media also thinks Demarcus Cousins is a nutcase and that we're still going to be the second worst team in the league in the year. But if you're cool with believing that then I guess Tyreke Evans is an SF!

 

[Section 101]

The national media also thinks Demarcus Cousins is a nutcase and that we're still going to be the second worst team in the league in the year. But if you're cool with believing that then I guess Tyreke Evans is an SF!

Actually they have been talking about how he has matured and borderline allstar. Hollinger actually has us picked for 11th in the west. Others have said we should be in the same range.

 

[Section 101]

and did we win any more game with him as the SF than with him as the PG??

And how many did we win when he played PG the 2 years prior? Did he improve at all? People need to get over the Evans at PG it didn't work.

 

[sdballer]

And how many did we win when he played PG the 2 years prior? Did he improve at all? People need to get over the Evans at PG it didn't work.

Our win % in Evans rookie year was 31% (with a much worse team), and we finished at 33% last year. That was with a better record when Evans was still at pg factored in. So sorry, the numbers aren't painting the obvious picture you claim,

 

[Section 101]

Our win % in Evans rookie year was 31% (with a much worse team), and we finished at 33% last year. That was with a better record when Evans was still at pg factored in. So sorry, the numbers aren't painting the obvious picture you claim,

If your happy winning around 35% of your games with Evans at PG then he's a PG. Let's see how the team responds with a full off season and training camp where Evans isn't the focus at PG.

Want to see what happens with a real PG? Wolves 21-20 before Rubio goes down, 5-20 after. He's a difference maker at PG.

 

[sdballer]

If your happy winning around 35% of your games with Evans at PG then he's a PG. Let's see how the team responds with a full off season and training camp where Evans isn't the focus at PG.

Want to see what happens with a real PG? Wolves 21-20 before Rubio goes down, 5-20 after. He's a difference maker at PG.

Not even sure why I'm continuing with you but let's try. You argue that the team is a lot better with Reke at sf and the when I show the records were about the same, you argue he clearly wasn't an effective pg since the record was bad. Doesn't that also suggest he isn't a sf since they had about the same record.

Let's see how Rubio does once he gets back. I like him but there were a lot of factors at play there besides him being worth an additional 15 wins just because he is a pg.

 

[rainmaker]

Reke's rookie year, at point. 25-57 (.305)

However I took into account injuries for all this, and we went 2-8 without Reke that year.

Reke's rookie year at point, 23-49 (.320)

Reke at SF last year we were, 10-23 (.303)

IT/MT backcourt last year, 10-19 (.345)

Reke/MT backcourt last year, 7-9 (.438)

Winning % under Smart, 20-39 (.339)


Westy had a far less talented team, and Reke at point had far less talent that year, with Cisco, Beno, Omri, JT, Hawes, Noc starting many games. Smart won about 4% more games than Westy with considerably superior talent.

Our worst winning %, period, since drafting Reke has been with him at SF, (.303). The Reke/MT backcourt had a .438 winning % under Smart, yet that's pretty much the only backcourt we haven't seen since Smart moved Reke to SF.

Where's the evidence suggesting this was a good decision by Smart?

 

[sdballer]

Reke's rookie year, at point. 25-57 (.305)

However I took into account injuries for all this, and we went 2-8 without Reke that year.

Reke's rookie year at point, 23-49 (.320)

Reke at SF last year we were, 10-23 (.303)

IT/MT backcourt last year, 10-19 (.345)

Reke/MT backcourt last year, 7-9 (.438)

Winning % under Smart, 20-39 (.339)


Westy had a far less talented team, and Reke at point had far less talent that year, with Cisco, Beno, Omri, JT, Hawes, Noc starting many games. Smart won about 4% more games than Westy with considerably superior talent.

Our worst winning %, period, since drafting Reke has been with him at SF, (.303). The Reke/MT backcourt had a .438 winning % under Smart, yet that's pretty much the only backcourt we haven't seen since Smart moved Reke to SF.

Where's the evidence suggesting this was a good decision by Smart?

Shh...too much logic makes the Reke haters go crazy.

 

[rainmaker]

Shh...too much logic makes the Reke haters go crazy.

Lol. You said we went 8-7 with a Reke/MT backcourt last year but that isn't what I saw when going over it. Am I wrong? I don't mind being corrected. Either way, still the best winning % and we haven't seen the pairing since.

 

[sdballer]

Lol. You said we went 8-7 with a Reke/MT backcourt last year but that isn't what I saw when going over it. Am I wrong? I don't mind being corrected. Either way, still the best winning % and we haven't seen the pairing since.

I was researching it on my phone so I corrected it to 9-13

 

[rainmaker]

I was researching it on my phone so I corrected it to 9-13

I didn't count the 7 games under Westy last year for any of this. Just the Smart era.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Would rather watch the games and have some drinks !

hmm, Opening night is on a Wed. Hooters, beer and wings. Is it still all you can eat wings on Wed?

On the down side there is a high chance of the world series still being on and not getting a good screen. Oh and it's Halloween.

Opening night is ALSO Halloween and I have 2 Halloweenies who wanna beg for candy from strangers. But....let's plan to make it to at least ONE game at Hooters this year, first beer is on me!

Edit...oh, yeah, you did mention Halloween. Carry on!

 

[CruzDude]

Looking at stats (averages) for the Kings thru 6 pre-season games some interesting bits fall out. For example, on the good side Kings are:

9th best in steals at 9.3/gm
10th best in points scored at 99.5
20th in turn overs at 17/gm meaning only 10 teams have less so far
3rd best in free throw shooting at 82%

But you know not all is well so far in pre-season. Kings are:

5th worst in personal fouls with 25/game
#21 in FG % at 41.9%
#18 in 3PT % at only 33.6%

To me the most important so far are how well they are doing in steals and keeping TO's down. Scoring is good especially their FT at 82%.

But most glaring are the personal fouls with Cuz at 4th worst in league and JT 9th worst. Worse yet is that 2 of 3 worse than Cuz are rookies, Sullinger and Leonard with Jan Vesely in the worst 3 as well.

Whats is all mean? Progress in some important areas of defense (steals), ball handling (low TO's) and points both total and FT%. Areas needing work on offense being shooting (FG% and 3PT %).

One more game 10/25 in bold shows team stats for a 20 pt win (minus a bunch of silly bench fouls in the last 2 min) and supports the earlier argument about team play:

9th best in steals at 9.3/gm. 13
10th best in points scored at 99.5. 94
20th in turn overs at 17/gm meaning only 10 teams have less so far. 7
3rd best in free throw shooting at 82%. 81

Also the negative stats improved a little

 

[CruzDude]

SacTownRoyalty did a better job in their article today 10/26/12 about team stats than I so here is their summary:
******************************************************
Kings Team Stats
98.71 PPG, .424 FG%, .324 3P%, .819 FT%, 18.14 APG, 15.57 TO, 42.29 RPG, 5.57 BLK, 9.86 STL

Kings Opponent Stats
95.57 PPG, .440 FG%, .353 3P%, .731 FT%, 21.86 APG, 20.00 TO, 44.29 RPG, 5.71 BLK, 7.14 STL

These are a little bit weird. The Kings gave up a higher FG%, 3P%, Assists, Rebounds and Blocks, yet had the higher point differential and went 5-2. A lot of this has to do with the fact that the Kings excelled at forcing turnovers in the preseason and also at getting to the line (and converting). Another interesting stat is that while the Kings seemed to be sharing the ball a lot more this preseason, they were 3rd from last in assists in the preseason.
**************************************************************

The assist problem seems to have gotten worse their last 2 preseason games. That and perimeter defense need the most correction to have the remotest chance to sniff the hind end of 7th or 8th dog in the west this year.

Link to full article: http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2012/10/26/3559462/preseason-stats-round-up

 

[Kingster]

Lol. You said we went 8-7 with a Reke/MT backcourt last year but that isn't what I saw when going over it. Am I wrong? I don't mind being corrected. Either way, still the best winning % and we haven't seen the pairing since.

George Karl said that IT brought "common sense" to the Kings backcourt. I'll go with Karl, one of the best coache's in the business. And I'll take the insinuation that Tyreke at the pg did not bring "common sense". As soon the Kings with IT at pg gets a 9-6 stretch the stat you note above becomes obsolete. Are you then going to disavow the Tyreke at pg proposition because 9-6 is the best we've seen? Is IT then going to be the pg of the future for this team?

 

[gunks]

IT/Reke worked well that last game, we should roll with that and see if good things come of it. MT off the bench is rad, assuming he can ever accept that role.

Of course, first hiccup and Smart will go back to dicking around with lineups...

...I'm really over these "coaches" the Magoofs keep dredging up.


Cant help but think if we had RA here, he would have figured this Tyreke thing out three seasons ago.

 

[Tyndel]

Its obvious that someone who doesn't have all of the PG instincts(he has a lot of them) but has the ability to do everything a PG needs to do will need a more structured offense. This was the problem with Reke at PG. He can pass handle and setup teammates then take it inside when needed and even take it inside to pass. However when he is stopped and he slows down his habit is to pound down clock and take a contested shot. So instead of setting up a playbook that makes him move the ball at that point and if he fails to initiate said play yell one out from the sidelines until he gets into a habit of going to them when slowed down, we said its failed and took his ball away. Even though at the time it was starting to look really good in both wins and in the half court game.

Reke doesn't need plays drawn up for when he gets an outlet or is in the open court. We aren't really running anything off Cousins still just dump the ball to him and he goes 1 on 1 instead of having cutters and so on. What we need plays for are when we get into a halfcourt with a good defensive team and the ball starts trying to stick in anybody's hands. A pure point guard sure he will make something happen free form but the less pure your PG is the more structure they need at that point.

 

[spudfan]

Its obvious that someone who doesn't have all of the PG instincts(he has a lot of them) but has the ability to do everything a PG needs to do will need a more structured offense. This was the problem with Reke at PG. He can pass handle and setup teammates then take it inside when needed and even take it inside to pass. However when he is stopped and he slows down his habit is to pound down clock and take a contested shot. So instead of setting up a playbook that makes him move the ball at that point and if he fails to initiate said play yell one out from the sidelines until he gets into a habit of going to them when slowed down, we said its failed and took his ball away. Even though at the time it was starting to look really good in both wins and in the half court game.

Reke doesn't need plays drawn up for when he gets an outlet or is in the open court. We aren't really running anything off Cousins still just dump the ball to him and he goes 1 on 1 instead of having cutters and so on. What we need plays for are when we get into a halfcourt with a good defensive team and the ball starts trying to stick in anybody's hands. A pure point guard sure he will make something happen free form but the less pure your PG is the more structure they need at that point.

Sounds good to me. I think a lot of that also has to do with the roster changes, coaching changes and young players. Running a good half court offense with set plays takes a lot of understanding of the game. Normally younger teams have a lot more problems with that and rely on the one-on-one stuff from their best players. Unfortunately that style of play makes it a lot harder to win consistently. It's just insane to me that some would want to give up on figuring out how to integrate our best players into an offense after a lockout shortened, compacted, no training camp season. Just look at how terrible the lakers have seemed so far, and that's with some of the best players of their generation.

 

[Gilles]

George Karl said that IT brought "common sense" to the Kings backcourt. I'll go with Karl, one of the best coache's in the business. And I'll take the insinuation that Tyreke at the pg did not bring "common sense". As soon the Kings with IT at pg gets a 9-6 stretch the stat you note above becomes obsolete. Are you then going to disavow the Tyreke at pg proposition because 9-6 is the best we've seen? Is IT then going to be the pg of the future for this team?

Last season Kings were beaten by Denver under Westfall, with Evans as starting PG and with Isiah as starting PG. The last one was by far the best Kings game Karl saw. Thing is Thomas really brought common sense with 2-8 shooting, 4 assists and 4 TOs. Evans also had 4 assists and 4 TOs, Cousins and Salmons both had 5 assists and 3 TOs. And if you see play-by-play - I didn't bother to find game footage - Tyreke was attacking. That type of Isiah at PG I'm certainly not opposed. BTW two previous season Kings had 3-4 record against Denver. I'm sure Karl was pleased with 3-0 record as well.

 

[Spike]

One could interpret it as Common sense = easier to defend. Evans is a mismatch at PG. That said, we've beaten it to death. I know where I stand, and I know where others stand. I'm pretty sure I'm right on this just as much as others think they're right in their opinion. I don't know that we're going to get one to bend towards the other, especially if Evans will spend most of his time at SG.

Has the ship sailed? I don't know. Smart could tank and be replaced by another coach who might try Evans at PG. Until then, I just hope that Smart figures out the right way to use Evans, because popping him at the SF for extended periods of time clearly isn't the answer.

Let's get the season going.

 

[Bricklayer]

IT/Reke worked well that last game, we should roll with that and see if good things come of it. MT off the bench is rad, assuming he can ever accept that role.

Of course, first hiccup and Smart will go back to dicking around with lineups...

...I'm really over these "coaches" the Magoofs keep dredging up.


Cant help but think if we had RA here, he would have figured this Tyreke thing out three seasons ago.

I would go so far as to say this: if RA were here with this lineup, this talent, I would virtually guarantee we'd be in the running for that #8. That's why when/if Smart screws this up its going to pee me off worse than any of the other amateur coaches we've had pass through here muddling along. Now we have the talent. And yet its young talent in need of firm direction, and if the coach messes it up there is a significant chance that our reactive front office panics on the talent rather than the coach and we start losing chunks of it.

 

[Section 101]

Last season Kings were beaten by Denver under Westfall, with Evans as starting PG and with Isiah as starting PG. The last one was by far the best Kings game Karl saw. Thing is Thomas really brought common sense with 2-8 shooting, 4 assists and 4 TOs. Evans also had 4 assists and 4 TOs, Cousins and Salmons both had 5 assists and 3 TOs. And if you see play-by-play - I didn't bother to find game footage - Tyreke was attacking. That type of Isiah at PG I'm certainly not opposed. BTW two previous season Kings had 3-4 record against Denver. I'm sure Karl was pleased with 3-0 record as well.

Don't know why people don't get it. It's not about stats/shooting %/Assists/etc. It's about the flow of the offense, getting others involved, ball movement, finding the mismatches, pushing the ball up the court, getting the ball into the post. None of these show up on a stat sheet.