ESPN Rondo for 4th and JT or Hawes?!?!?!

[bajaden]

There have been people that I have known for forty years. Some of them close friends. And I still wouldn't be able to tell you what goes on in the inner recesses of their minds. It always amazes me when someone tries to tell me what a baseball player or a hollywood actor is thinking about something. Or what their really like off the set or the field.

Mi amigo's, I have a hard enough time trying to figure out what my wife is thinking, and I think I know her pretty well. So I doubt I could tell anyone what Petrie is thinking or what he comfortable with. You can certainly judge him on the results of his actions, but there's no way on god's earth you can know what he was thinking when he made those decisions.

Personally, if I were a GM, this would be the time of the year when I would get excited. This is the time of the year when I can make a difference. I would think that this is the time of the year GM's live for, not get uncomfortable with. Otherwise, why even be a GM?

To my mind, a GM thats uncomfortable would pick the safest pick on the board and go home. He certainly wouldn't pick some guy no one ever heard of at the time name Peja something. Or Hedo something. To me, those were risks. Maybe not as risky as trading the first pick in the draft for a 35 year old declining superstar and a 25th pick in the draft. ( I just made that one up) But they were riskier than taking the pick that all the mocks said you should pick.

Me and my wife from another life were given box seats to a capitols tennis match a few years ago. We ended up sitting right next to Petrie and Coachie. We had social conversations all night. He was very nice, actually nicer than Coachie who was a little more distant, or perhaps didn't want to talk basketball at a tennis match. I left that night not knowing one more thing about the Kings than when I went in. Petrie is a very guarded man. A very privite man. If he's uncomfortable with anything, I think its the spotlight. I don't think he particularly likes press conferences, but they're a part of the business and he has to do them.

The truth is, one of your friends, who you think you really know, may change into womens clothes when he gets home from work and put on make up. And if you think thats ridiculous, I can tell you the story sometime.

 

[Dustinlikestodance]

Nudge me the next time Rajon Rondo is worth this kind of package. That's exactly my point. Rondo would be a great pickup but the reality is that he is not the player those numbers suggest that he is. If he were the entire league would be throwing down it's first born on the table to get him.

ummmmm.... how about almost the entire regular season? Sure he was a bit inconsistent, but most games he played were with Garnett. Take away Garnett and his scoring stepped up considerably. His assist numbers were MASSIVE regardless of the people on the court and his rebounding was consistently high as well.

Im sorry, but if you think Rondo only performed in the playoffs, you are sadly mistaken my friend. Every single game, he contributed SOMETHING, assists, rebounds, points, you name it. Not to mention he's probably one of the best defenders in the league.

Edit: But I do agree it is not worth both the 4th and the JT/Hawes. Just proving Rondo is NOT overrated at all.

 

[Aenadin]

again i will say it..


NO!!!!

your just making another hole with rondo.. 4th and hawes or jt for rondo? the price is too steep.. i wouldnt even trade 4th for rondo straight up.. you can find BETTER and younger talent than rondo in the draft. apparently rumors that celtic players dont like him... he might rub kings players the wrong way too.. i mean were doing were doing the celtics a favor if we did this.. no way!

 

[D-Rock]

Hahaha, Rondo is so overrated it's just funny. Sure he's an NBA champ! But c'mon, so is Slava Medvedenko, let's get him too.

I said the same thing last year, but after seeing the playoffs this year, he is the real deal. And he's so young that he could easily add a jump shot to his arsenal.

Hmm, maybe KG could get KM to play some defense.

 

[Aenadin]

martin, 23rd, 31st for rondo and filler

trade rondo for the grizz for pick 2

draft rubio and harden

rubio/udrih
harden/garcia
noc/greene
thompson/diogu
hawes/free agent signing (gortat?)

 

[Warhawk]

Me and my wife from another life were given box seats to a capitols tennis match a few years ago. We ended up sitting right next to Petrie and Coachie. We had social conversations all night. He was very nice, actually nicer than Coachie who was a little more distant, or perhaps didn't want to talk basketball at a tennis match.

I think I can shed some light on this - from "The Smart Take From the Strong" page 130-131.

Pay Attention

When I was a kid, I had some kind of eye problem that was never corrected - we were a poor family and I don't think I ever realized, or my parents didn't, that I had a problem that might have been corrected at an early age. I had a tendency to to see double lines and words. As a result, while I've never had any trouble shooting a basketball, it has always been hard for me to read - I never let that stop me, but it's been hard. To compensate for that, I learned early on to pay attention. I am very good at paying attention. When I'm watching a game, I really watch it, whether it's my own team, or a pro game, or a high school game where I'm looking at a possible prospect. I don't notice what's going on around me, and people who try to talk to me at games give up. The point is I am paying attention, and it's unbelievable what you can see and learn when you do.

 

[Showtime]

How bad would that look knowing GP could have already had Rondo if he didn't take Douby instead?

No way should he give up one of two young, developing, and already proven bigs for Rondo, who probably wouldn't stay in Sacramento anyway.

 

[VF21]

How bad would that look knowing GP could have already had Rondo if he didn't take Douby instead?

No way should he give up one of two young, developing, and already proven bigs for Rondo, who probably wouldn't stay in Sacramento anyway.

This is one of those things that only fans worry about. Hindsight is always 20-20 and it's really easy to judge draft picks by how they turned out instead of how they looked at the time they were picked. For whatever reason, Petrie chose Quincy Douby. It didn't work out. No big.

There are myriads of posts where certain playerss, who were drafted out of the lottery or even the second round, have gone on to great success. There are just as many players who were drafted early and amounted to absolutely nothing.

I personally like Rajon Rondo but I don't think he's the only point guard in the NBA who can lead our team going forward. In that regard I agree with the latter part of your post.

 

[Emma]

Went to the realgm boston fansite and looks as if they would be totally open to trading Rondo for such a package. In fact, they want to give us Glen Davis too, because they would feel like criminals. Telling huh?, I say no to the hype.

 

[Löwenherz]

You know, my first reaction to this was "NO WAY!" similar to what I imagine was the reaction from Celtics fans when an aging one-dimensional Ray Allen came to town for Szczerbiak, West and the #5 (Green).

On its own it's pointless, but as part of a whole it could be perfect.

What if Rondo for Thompson and the #4 was included in a series with something like what Aleksander suggested a short time back to bring in Tyson Chandler and Chris Bosh:

http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showpost.php?p=635499&postcount=1

I'd even be willing to throw Kevin Martin into the mix, keep Nocioni and sign a defensive specialist like Dahntay Jones for the two guard. Or, if the Martin/Bosh tag team is just too enticing, how about go for broke and make a run at Hedo or possibly Jamario Moon. (or really, which ever free agent small forward you like. Ron-Ron's available )

Possible starting line-ups in those senarios:

Chandler
Bosh
Hedo/Moon
Martin
Rondo

Or

Chandler
Bosh
Nocioni
Jones
Rondo

Our bench would be decimated, we'd have two starters entering free agency in 2010 and Coachie just might commit HariKari. But admit it, you'd buy tickets.

 

[John Galt]

Well I don't mind that much being the different guy on the board, so I'll just go ahead and say it...

I think if you can somehow "sell high" on Hawes then I would do it in a heartbeat. I'm not convinced that Hawes is all that. I don't hate him but I'm not sold on him either.

Hawes + #4 for Rondo + "something" would be ok with me.

I think JT is a better stud big than Hawes and don't want to part with him at all. But Hawes may be a flash in the pan with knee issues.

So if Boston is also trying to "sell high" with Rondo - I'd talk to 'em about it.

But Hawes + #4 is a little too much for Rondo alone they would have to sweeten it just a tad (but not that much)

 

[SacKings7]

Rondo + Powe for Hawes + #4 + filler? works for me. Like Francisco said, I like Hawes but I'm not entirely sold on him either. I've always liked Powe, he can put up 20 n 9 with regular minutes. Not saying he's better than Hawes, but certainly a nice fill in. Not entirely sure if he can play C either.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Heres is another deal I was thinking about ..

Rondo + Big Baby Davis (S&T) for JT and the #4 pick.

BBD means nothig to the Celts at this point, I dont see how they can resign him with there cap situation, and we happen to have enough cap roon to sign him.

ALOT of people dont like Davis, he is a limited player because of his size, but he is a tank .. he has a nice midrange game and he is great at finishing with contact ..how much will he make ? we can afford him at 7 mil 4 years ( right ? )


Rondo
Martin
Nocioni
Big Baby
Hawes

Thats a pretty nice lineup .. could potentially put us in the playoffs as an 8 seed, which is fine for a young team .. good experience.

Im not saying I would do it, but its another possibility for those who dont want to trade a our nice young PF, well now your getting one back.

 

[nbrans]

How bad would that look knowing GP could have already had Rondo if he didn't take Douby instead?

No way should he give up one of two young, developing, and already proven bigs for Rondo, who probably wouldn't stay in Sacramento anyway.

That's one way of looking at it, the other way is that Rondo probably wouldn't be worth as much as he is now if he hadn't had the experience of playing for a championship with 3 Hall of Famers. I think he's legitimately good now and not just lucky to be there, but it's hard to imagine that he would be the same player if he hadn't been with Boston.

Sometimes life is about opportunity. He wouldn't have had the same opportunity if we had drafted him.

 

[Bricklayer]

Heres is another deal I was thinking about ..

Rondo + Big Baby Davis (S&T) for JT and the #4 pick.

BBD means nothig to the Celts at this point, I dont see how they can resign him with there cap situation, and we happen to have enough cap roon to sign him.

ALOT of people dont like Davis, he is a limited player because of his size, but he is a tank .. he has a nice midrange game and he is great at finishing with contact ..how much will he make ? we can afford him at 7 mil 4 years ( right ? )


Rondo
Martin
Nocioni
Big Baby
Hawes

Thats a pretty nice lineup .. could potentially put us in the playoffs as an 8 seed, which is fine for a young team .. good experience.

Im not saying I would do it, but its another possibility for those who dont want to trade a our nice young PF, well now your getting one back.

I've been generally impressed by Baby's skillset ever since I saw some surprising mixtapes of him back before he was drafted. He can score with that nice midrange game and showed a lot and earned some money in the playoffs this season. But he is NOT a fullt time starter, he can't rebound at this level (too short/groundbound) and can't protect the rim. When I was considering fantasy scenarios in this thread I considered both he and Powe (undersized hustler), but neither is really any particualr consolation for losing Jason or Spencer. Both guys are just undersized reserves with marginal trade value. We still go back to being undersized and underpowered on the frontline if we make that move...unless of course we go do my Amare thing soon thereafter.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I've been generally impressed by Baby's skillset ever since I saw some surprising mixtapes of him back before he was drafted. He can score with that nice midrange game and showed a lot and earned some money in the playoffs this season. But he is NOT a fullt time starter, he can't rebound at this level (too short/groundbound) and can't protect the rim. When I was considering fantasy scenarios in this thread I considered both he and Powe (undersized hustler), but neither is really any particualr consolation for losing Jason or Spencer. Both guys are just undersized reserves with marginal trade value. We still go back to being undersized and underpowered on the frontline if we make that move...unless of course we go do my Amare thing soon thereafter.

Even if you dont think Davis is a long term fit for a starting PF, he would be a top 5 backup at that spot, he would be a piece. I was just putting it in there to sweeten the deal for the Kings, and he could deffinetly start for at least a year until we get real serious about a playoff push. I guess it comes down to how much money he will want though, and I think 7 mil is as high as I would go to make it worth it.

 

[Bricklayer]

Even if you dont think Davis is a long term fit for a starting PF, he would be a top 5 backup at that spot, he would be a piece. I was just putting it in there to sweeten the deal for the Kings, and he could deffinetly start for at least a year until we get real serious about a playoff push. I guess it comes down to how much money he will want though, and I think 7 mil is as high as I would go to make it worth it.

You are talking about an intentional return to Wayman Tisdale. No, not even Wayman Tisdale, because Wayman had a post game. Especially for a coach coming in trying to focus on defense and rebounding that would just be devastating.

 

[DocHolliday]

The only the way the Kings make this deal is if they think they've found a PF that will be around at 23 that can give us what Jason Thomspon has. Either that that or they move up by packaging the 23, 31 and maybe one other and move up slightly inot the teens to get that PF.

If that's the case then it's not a bad deal, if Petrie doesn't think there are any PG's in the draft that will be what we want them to be.

How old is Rondo now?

 

[TheRaven]

The only the way the Kings make this deal is if they think they've found a PF that will be around at 23 that can give us what Jason Thomspon has. Either that that or they move up by packaging the 23, 31 and maybe one other and move up slightly inot the teens to get that PF.

This is a horrible draft for PFs. Blair is the only one that might be a possibility assuming he falls a little and we trade up, and personally I am extremely wary when it comes to him.

I understand why people say "why fill one hole and create another" and everything. Normally I would agree, but not when your talking about acquiring a guy of the caliber of Rondo.

Your talking about trading a nice 2nd year PF with some potential but an uncertain ceiling and a #4 pick in a very uncertain draft for a proven guy who is still young. Rondo is only 23 years-old and has his whole career in front of him and is already an established star who can give this team almost everything it needs. You want someone to set a defensive example for the rest of the team? He can do that. You want someone who is tough and will help contain the better PGs in the league, something that has killed us for season after season? He can do that.

We aren't going to fix this team in one offseason or one draft. Losing Thompson would hurt, and create a hole at PF that would have to be filled by stopgaps until we find the next guy. However, you balance that by getting back a player who has already proven he can play at the highest level under the biggest pressure situations in the playoffs. A guy who almost averaged a triple-double in the playoffs and is only 23 doesn't come along very often. If Petrie pulled that off, I think it would be looked back on right alongside the C-Web trade as far as franchise-changing moves go.

I think all of this discussion is for nothing though, because Boston would have to be insane to trade Rondo. There is no one they can bring in that can replace what he does, and even Thompson + #4 wouldn't be close to enough for me if I were Boston.

 

[Bricklayer]

The only the way the Kings make this deal is if they think they've found a PF that will be around at 23 that can give us what Jason Thomspon has. Either that that or they move up by packaging the 23, 31 and maybe one other and move up slightly inot the teens to get that PF.

If that's the case then it's not a bad deal, if Petrie doesn't think there are any PG's in the draft that will be what we want them to be.

How old is Rondo now?

23 -- he's almost as young as the guys in the draft. Be a long term starter and do everything that Kevin doesn't.

That's all good.

 

[gunks]

I think the main point is contractual...

...If Rondo had just resigned and would be stuck with us after a trade, thats one thing...

...But the dude will be an FA in 2010, and why oh why will he want to stick around when we will no doubt be a cellar dweller again next season?

I'd love to have Rondo on the Kings, but I'm a bit loath when it will probably be for just a season and we're having to give up both JT or Hawes AND #4. It's not like we're in a position where mortgaging our future is a good thing. Rondo gets us 10-15 more wins tops.

 

[Bricklayer]

I think the main point is contractual...

...If Rondo had just resigned and would be stuck with us after a trade, thats one thing...

...But the dude will be an FA in 2010, and why oh why will he want to stick around when we will no doubt be a cellar dweller again next season?

I'd love to have Rondo on the Kings, but I'm a bit loath when it will probably be for just a season and we're having to give up both JT or Hawes AND #4. It's not like we're in a position where mortgaging our future is a good thing. Rondo gets us 10-15 more wins tops.

There is some legitimacy to that concern. But if we made that move it might well be a sing that the sleeping Petrie has awoken and we are preparing for an aggressive summer trying to turn things around.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Heres is another deal I was thinking about ..

Rondo + Big Baby Davis (S&T) for JT and the #4 pick.

BBD means nothig to the Celts at this point, I dont see how they can resign him with there cap situation, and we happen to have enough cap roon to sign him.

ALOT of people dont like Davis, he is a limited player because of his size, but he is a tank .. he has a nice midrange game and he is great at finishing with contact ..how much will he make ? we can afford him at 7 mil 4 years ( right ? )


Rondo
Martin
Nocioni
Big Baby
Hawes

Thats a pretty nice lineup .. could potentially put us in the playoffs as an 8 seed, which is fine for a young team .. good experience.

Im not saying I would do it, but its another possibility for those who dont want to trade a our nice young PF, well now your getting one back.

Not to rain on the parade here, but I am quite certain that S&T players cannot be combined with other players in trades. A sign and trade has to be the one player for whatever the other team is willing to give back.

 

[Smills91]

I would definately trade the #4 pick for Rondo. I probably would trade both the #4 and the second round pick. Rondo is a Top 5 Point Guard in the league with a mean streak that can play defense and rebound. He is still very, very young. But I would not trade either of the bigs.

I like Rondo as much as the next guy, but NO, NO he's not.

Paul
Williams
Rose

are all young and No-BRAIN BETTER than Rondo.

and then there's still guys like G. Arenas, Nash, Kidd, Billups, A. Miller and even Harris to an extent that could all be classified as better than Rondo.


I also like other YOUNG PG's like Nelson, Brooks, Augustin(now), Westbrook, Conley as MUCH cheaper alternative.

Not to mention the DEPTH and QUALITY of PG's in THIS draft? I'd much rather keep Thompson and take a flyer on Tyreke Evans, who has similar physical attributes, with IMO, a HIGHER celing than Rondo.

I don't think I'd trade the #4 pick ALONE for Rondo, let alone tossing in Thompson. That's stupid.

As good as ROndo is, he's still a product of his environment at this point. He's no Pierce, or Garnett caliber player. I think Evans, has a much more real chance of being a Pierce caliber talent than Rondo does.

 

[Smills91]

Not to rain on the parade here, but I am quite certain that S&T players cannot be combined with other players in trades. A sign and trade has to be the one player for whatever the other team is willing to give back.

Well trades happen sometimes in 2/3 seperate trades, but all in all are one trade. TPE's, and such help manipulate multiple trades into one single trade. So sometimes SnT's can happen that way, technically speaking of course.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Well trades happen sometimes in 2/3 seperate trades, but all in all are one trade. TPE's, and such help manipulate multiple trades into one single trade. So sometimes SnT's can happen that way, technically speaking of course.

Multi-team trades do. However, I can't think of any two team trades done over the course of multiple deals. I would be concerned that making two lopsided trades to circumvent league rules could lead to some sort of punishment by the league. If you have any examples though, I would love to be proven wrong here, because of course it would give our team more options.

 

[Dustinlikestodance]

I don't think I'd trade the #4 pick ALONE for Rondo...

Now THAT'S stupid.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I don't think I'd trade the #4 pick ALONE for Rondo...

Now THAT'S stupid.

Well, sign me up for stupid.

I think there's a very good chance that at #4 we'll draft a player who will eventually be better than Rondo. That player will then be under our control at (relatively) cheap salary for four years, while Rondo has one year left on his rookie deal and will then get big bucks in free agency, possibly not in Sacramento. That's a really big gamble, to potentially pass on a better player who would have a longer tenure, and I'm not willing to do it. What happens to the rebuild if Rondo decides he can jump to an already-built team in a year?

 

[SacTownKid]

ummmmm.... how about almost the entire regular season? Sure he was a bit inconsistent, but most games he played were with Garnett. Take away Garnett and his scoring stepped up considerably. His assist numbers were MASSIVE regardless of the people on the court and his rebounding was consistently high as well.

Im sorry, but if you think Rondo only performed in the playoffs, you are sadly mistaken my friend. Every single game, he contributed SOMETHING, assists, rebounds, points, you name it. Not to mention he's probably one of the best defenders in the league.

Edit: But I do agree it is not worth both the 4th and the JT/Hawes. Just proving Rondo is NOT overrated at all.

The entire season he showed he's a good hustle guy with a more than solid assist/TO ratio and a pretty good rebounder for a little guy. He is not, nor will he ever be a superstar player nor did his regular season numbers come close to providing substance to the notion that he will become one. He is not worth a solid, high potential young big and a top 4 pick. If he comes out next season and puts up a triple double then I'd easily hand over whatever they want, but you and I both know, well at least I do, that it isn't going to happen.

In terms of this discussion and what Ford claims as a potential trade, he is entirely overrated. I would love to add him to this team but that price tag shouldn't even be mentioned as a realistic trade.

 

[VF21]

I also firmly believe his present situation is helping his game. He's surrounded by future HOFers who know how to get the best out of their teammates. I am not convinced in any way that Rondo would be able to play at the same level here. For one thing, his assist to TO ratio is good because his teammates do a pretty good job of actually getting the ball into the hoop. That ratio can plummet pretty quickly if the guy on the receiving end of that sweet dish doesn't convert the shot.