ESPN: Greatest Beatdowns: #95 NBA Referees vs. Kings

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Maybe best most people have gotten over it and moved on? Or maybe because in the whole scheme of things it's just NOT that big a deal to anyone other than a Kings fan?

;)
 
Maybe best most people have gotten over it and moved on? Or maybe because in the whole scheme of things it's just NOT that big a deal to anyone other than a Kings fan?

;)

That's usually the case for most things involving the kings.
 
Check the fouls the Kings got in the rest of the series

There was no "conspiracy", the refs were simply inconsistent, that's all

Lakers beat the Kings not because of bad refereeing (because it went bad both ways), but rather because the Lakers played very well against the Kings

Kings were the better team, but the Lakers were the better teama gainst the Kings

Simple and Sad truth
Couldn't disagree more.
 
They lost in overtime of game 7. Regardless of what had happened before, it all boiled down to five minutes - and the Kings choked. Period.

You can argue that it shouldn't have gone to a game 7, but it did - and the Kings had the chance to win. And they didn't.
 
You don't have to agree with ME....

all you have to do is look at the overall statistics from every game in the series.

it was definitely inconsistent both ways

Many Kings fans were simply sore after getting beat, and made up this whole "fraud" thing
27 fouls in 1 quarter is not a bent fanbase making things up. Its a fan base that got the shaft and should have seen their team move on in game 6.

Game 7 was a bit of a choke job, but it never should have came to that. Period.
 
But it did come to that, Heuge. That's the whole point. The fanbase that should be bent out of shape is that of the Phoenix Suns. They actually have to live with the knowledge that their hopes were dashed while a confessed crooked official was trying to square his gambling debts. That's a hell of a lot more bitter pill to swallow than our 2002 WCF.

Was it horrible officiating back then? Yes. But it DIDN'T END THE SERIES. If it had happened in game 7, then this continued wailing and chest-beating might make sense. But the Kings had one final chance to right the wrong. They didn't. That's the bottom line; not that the series should never have gotten to that point to begin with.
 
I was mad as hell in 2002... but really, given the current state of the Kings and the fact that this was 5 years ago, I really don't want to think about it anymore. And I have to agree with VF on this, we had our chances to win it in game 7 and just couldn't close the deal.

I just can't stand to tortue myself thinking about what could or should have been, its water under the bridge right now and even if they came out and said the fix was in, what exactly would that solve? It sure won't take away any of the ragging I took for being a Kings fan living in Southern California back then.
 
Let's take a look at the foul attempts:

Game one - Kings 17, Lakers 22
Game two - Kings 38, Lakers 25
Game three- Kings 35,Lakers 15
Game four - Kings 26, Lakers 27
Game five - Kings 33, Lakers 23
Game six - Kings 25, Lakers 40
Game seven- Kings 30, Lakers 33

Kings Total - 204
Lakers Total - 185


Great observations, guys. The refs killed the Kings.


27 fouls called in the final quarter of an elimination game where every reporter including BILL Walton complained about how poorly officiated the game was.

You can manipulate the stats all you want...but the bottom line is, there was something wrong happening.

If you want to go back into the series...go check out Samaki walker's half court shot DURING Halftime where those 3 extra points gave Robert Horry the opportunity to hit his infamous shot.

Sure it goes both ways, that I agree with...that just didn't happen in game 6 of the 4th quarter...EASILY the worst/one-sided officiated game I've ever witnessd.
 
Let's take a look at the foul attempts:

Game one - Kings 17, Lakers 22
Game two - Kings 38, Lakers 25
Game three- Kings 35,Lakers 15
Game four - Kings 26, Lakers 27
Game five - Kings 33, Lakers 23
Game six - Kings 25, Lakers 40
Game seven- Kings 30, Lakers 33

Kings Total - 204
Lakers Total - 185


Great observations, guys. The refs killed the Kings.

What is a foul attempt? Is that when you try to attempt a foul, but you miss the other player? I think you mean free throw attempts...
 
But it did come to that, Heuge. That's the whole point. The fanbase that should be bent out of shape is that of the Phoenix Suns. They actually have to live with the knowledge that their hopes were dashed while a confessed crooked official was trying to square his gambling debts. That's a hell of a lot more bitter pill to swallow than our 2002 WCF.

Was it horrible officiating back then? Yes. But it DIDN'T END THE SERIES. If it had happened in game 7, then this continued wailing and chest-beating might make sense. But the Kings had one final chance to right the wrong. They didn't. That's the bottom line; not that the series should never have gotten to that point to begin with.
We are just not going to agree, I think it did end the series, you do not. Considering it is 5 years ago and it has been discussed over and over and over again, I really don't think either of our opinions will change. I will always content: 27 fouls in the 4th quarter of a decisive game is debilitating. It should have ended right there. Phoenix has there cheating scandal public, I would not be shocked if that game has something become public in the future.

Juicy...I understand the free throw difference throughout the series was in the Kings favor. They were more aggressive and got rewarded for it. But 27 fouls in 12 minutes of the final moments of the game is absurd and, I think, at that moment cost the Kings the championship. (then later on the Kings choke job caused it again.
 
So in game 3, when the Kings attempted 20 more free throws, it looked all fair & square? Give me a break

Of course the officiating was bad, but it's definitely not because "LA is a bigger city and Stern wanted the trophy there because the NBA will get more publicity". Come on now..

What's next? Bush did 9/11? Nazi's had a moon base? Kennedy was killed by an ice bullet?
What's next? An NBA official has ties to the mob?

Real far fetched...
 
So in game 3, when the Kings attempted 20 more free throws, it looked all fair & square? Give me a break

Of course the officiating was bad, but it's definitely not because "LA is a bigger city and Stern wanted the trophy there because the NBA will get more publicity". Come on now..

What's next? Bush did 9/11? Nazi's had a moon base? Kennedy was killed by an ice bullet?
Did they attempt 20 more free throws in the 4th quarter of Game 3?

Seriously, were not even talking about 20 more free throws in one game.. but nearly 20 more in a single quarter! A 108 free throw per game pace.

Oh and of course NBA referees are above any speculation of jobbing teams right? No NBA referee would ever intentionally fix a game right? That's crazy talk! LOL you're funny Juicy_J :).

27 free throws in a 4th quarter, of a deciding game, amazing...
 
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You don't have to agree with ME....

all you have to do is look at the overall statistics from every game in the series.

it was definitely inconsistent both ways

Many Kings fans were simply sore after getting beat, and made up this whole "fraud" thing


LOL.. That one game.. That ONE quarter probaly doomed the Kings.. Sure the Kings didn't take care of the Lakers in game 7, but should there have been a game 7? NOPE. 27 fouls in one quarter is absurd..

What would the Laker fans be saying if they were up on the Kings in Sacramento in game 7 and they got called for 27 fouls in the 4th in a 3-3 series? I am sure there would be a bumch of pretty pissed fans. But we can call that series an (* asterisk) series as much as we can call the Spurs 50 game season Championship the same.
 
So in game 3, when the Kings attempted 20 more free throws, it looked all fair & square? Give me a break

The difference is that in game three the Kings had a double digit lead well into the fourth quarter and the Lakers began fouling to stop the clock, while the Kings were trying to run it down. That obviously skews the numbers.

In game six those 27 fouls came during a tightly fought back and forth game that included the Kings' big men fouling out (crippling against a Shaq led team) and Bibby getting called for a foul when Kobe's elbow hit his face.

If anything, your stats prove how important the officiating can be as the winner of every game also came out ahead at the free throw line.

No one is saying the Kings did not justly lose game seven and thus the series. But considering game six was an elimination game and it's been the general censensus by fans and the media across the nation that the Kings got the shaft ... I think it's in bounds for us to feel slighted by it.

What's next? Bush did 9/11? Nazi's had a moon base? Kennedy was killed by an ice bullet?

I'll do you one better: The Nazi's moon base developed the ice bullet that killed Kennedy, who had prior knowlege of the then 17-year-old George W. Bush's plot to destroy the yet to be built Twin Towers ... all to distract the public from the tragedy of the Kings/Lakers WCF game six only nine months later.
 
Juicy...I understand the free throw difference throughout the series was in the Kings favor. They were more aggressive and got rewarded for it. But 27 fouls in 12 minutes of the final moments of the game is absurd and, I think, at that moment cost the Kings the championship. (then later on the Kings choke job caused it again.

I guess since the lakers won their fan base or general public wouldnt complain as much. But that is a very subjective statement around who was more aggressive and who deserved it, could it be that the lakers were more aggressive in game 6 since they had to win it ;)

On the hand I am sure you would have a valid reason for Shaq fouling out game 5 and taking only one FTA all game long.
 
LOL please don't make it sound like the refs purposely gave the Lakers fradulent free throws so they can win the game.

EVEN IF GAME 6 WAS A HOAX, doesn't mean the Kings had an excuse to drop their soap in game 7. That's how sports are, you can dominate every team in the league, but it won't mean you are the best.

I guess this is the wrong forum to try prove the point. I can't believe the lunacy I'm scoping
It doesn't matter whether they did it purposely or not. Fact is that there were a lot of bogus calls going the Lakers way in that fourth quarter (like the Kobe elbow to Bibby nose that sent Kobe to the line), and those calls cost the Kings Game 6.

And since Game 6 would have ended the series had the Kings not been jobbed, those calls cost them the series. You're right, the Kings had every opportunity to win Game 7, and 16-30 from the line ain't gonna cut it, but you can't talk about Game 7 without recognizing that there should not have been a Game 7.

Due to poor officiating, the Kings lost that series. It's really simple.
 
But it did come to that, Heuge. That's the whole point. The fanbase that should be bent out of shape is that of the Phoenix Suns. They actually have to live with the knowledge that their hopes were dashed while a confessed crooked official was trying to square his gambling debts. That's a hell of a lot more bitter pill to swallow than our 2002 WCF.
What game did Donaghy tamper with in the Spurs/Sun series?
 
Check the fouls the Kings got in the rest of the series

There was no "conspiracy", the refs were simply inconsistent, that's all

Lakers beat the Kings not because of bad refereeing (because it went bad both ways), but rather because the Lakers played very well against the Kings

Kings were the better team, but the Lakers were the better teama gainst the Kings

Simple and Sad truth

Couldn't agree more. You have a game 7 at home in Arco. You miss free throws - you choke. You lose the series and all the work done to get a Game 7 at Arco. End of Story.
 
Sure it goes both ways, that I agree with...that just didn't happen in game 6 of the 4th quarter...EASILY the worst/one-sided officiated game I've ever witnessd.
So let's bring back ALL the players involved in that series and replay it. Then Stern will amend the official record books after the outcome. Would that satisfy you? It's been 5 years - it's over, time to move on. Life isn't fair, ok?
 
What game did Donaghy tamper with in the Spurs/Sun series?

It was Tim Donaghy who called the late, late, late foul on Steve Nash, sending one of the Spurs to the line for three shots. I'd have to check back in the game thread to find the exact circumstance but as I recall the shot was missed, the Suns had the ball and were running back up the court and all of a sudden the whistle blew.

My point is that they have a lot more reason to cry about possible official misconduct - they have a game that might have been different without the presence of Tim Donaghy on the court.
 
He didn't call Game 5.

Game 3, maybe? When Nash couldn't by a field goal in the first half, Stoudemire missed two dunks, when the Suns got outrebounded, outscored in the paint, etc.? When everything was going the Spurs way all game long, and they managed to pull out a close one at the end? You're talking about a team that doesn't shoot more than 15 free throws a game, but shot 27 in that one, against a team that lives at the free throw line.

I mean, we're talking about two teams that traded shots back and forth for a whole series, the game is tied through three quarters, and then, when the Lakers were facing elimination, all of a sudden, this completely noticeable shift in officiating happens and the Lakers, who had only taken 13 free throws all game, shoot 27 in the fourth quarter. It was dirty, and it cost the Kings the game. No doubt about it.

I mean, I know the Suns got the short end in that series (though that can't be blamed on the refs) but Game 3 wasn't dirty. Donaghy called it, and that's suspicious in and of itself, but I don't think he called any of the last three fouls against Stoudemire. And even if it was dirty, it's Game 3, in a 1-1 series. Not Game 6 in a 3-2 series, and the team that's on the ropes gets an 18 free throw advantage in the fourth quarter of a tie game. That's blatant.

And regardless of how long ago it was, Kings fans have every right to be upset about it, without having to hear about the Suns and Tim Donaghy and how they "really have something to complain about". The Kings got hosed in a series-deciding game, and had they not been hosed, they would have won the series that night. That's what happened, and no amount of time or other officiating scandal is going to change what happened May 31st, 2002.
 
He didn't call Game 5.

Game 3, maybe? When Nash couldn't by a field goal in the first half, Stoudemire missed two dunks, when the Suns got outrebounded, outscored in the paint, etc.? When everything was going the Spurs way all game long, and they managed to pull out a close one at the end? You're talking about a team that doesn't shoot more than 15 free throws a game, but shot 27 in that one, against a team that lives at the free throw line.

I mean, we're talking about two teams that traded shots back and forth for a whole series, the game is tied through three quarters, and then, when the Lakers were facing elimination, all of a sudden, this completely noticeable shift in officiating happens and the Lakers, who had only taken 13 free throws all game, shoot 27 in the fourth quarter. It was dirty, and it cost the Kings the game. No doubt about it.

I mean, I know the Suns got the short end in that series (though that can't be blamed on the refs) but Game 3 wasn't dirty. Donaghy called it, and that's suspicious in and of itself, but I don't think he called any of the last three fouls against Stoudemire. And even if it was dirty, it's Game 3, in a 1-1 series. Not Game 6 in a 3-2 series, and the team that's on the ropes gets an 18 free throw advantage in the fourth quarter of a tie game. That's blatant.

And regardless of how long ago it was, Kings fans have every right to be upset about it, without having to hear about the Suns and Tim Donaghy and how they "really have something to complain about". The Kings got hosed in a series-deciding game, and had they not been hosed, they would have won the series that night. That's what happened, and no amount of time or other officiating scandal is going to change what happened May 31st, 2002.

Hoopsfan was talking about game 5 of the WCF. Remember, hoopsie is a Laker fan.

;)

Kings fans have every right to still be upset? While that might be true it's about as useful as crying over the piece of birthday cake that fell to the floor at your 6th birthday party and the dog ate. At some point, you have to realize the stupid cake is gone and get on with your life IMHO.
 
It was Tim Donaghy who called the late, late, late foul on Steve Nash, sending one of the Spurs to the line for three shots. I'd have to check back in the game thread to find the exact circumstance but as I recall the shot was missed, the Suns had the ball and were running back up the court and all of a sudden the whistle blew.

My point is that they have a lot more reason to cry about possible official misconduct - they have a game that might have been different without the presence of Tim Donaghy on the court.

The only game he called was Game 3, and if that one call that early in the series ended the Suns hopes for a championship, then what did the 27 free throws in Game 6 do to the Kings? (By the way, I don't think that call was in Game 3.)

Like I said before, the Suns definitely got the short end in that series, but that doesn't change what happened to the Kings in Game 6.
 
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