ESPN: Greatest Beatdowns: #95 NBA Referees vs. Kings

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You're mixing up two different series. Hoopsie was referring to game 5 of the 2002 WCF, the game most Laker fans point to whenever the Kings fans point to game 6.

Now, totally different series - game 3 of the Suns-Spurs game was the series officiated by Donaghy. And yes, that call was IIRC in game 3. You can easily check the game threads in the NBA archives as I know it was discussed.

I simply do not understand why people still want to cry about something that happened over 5 years ago and cannot/will not be changed.
 
VF21 said:
Hoopsfan was talking about game 5 of the WCF. Remember, hoopsie is a Laker fan.

;)

Kings fans have every right to still be upset? While that might be true it's about as useful as crying over the piece of birthday cake that fell to the floor at your 6th birthday party and the dog ate. At some point, you have to realize the stupid cake is gone and get on with your life IMHO.
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I don't bring this up. This was an article by some random columnist who realizes how devastating that game was to the Kings.

When Laker fans decide to downgrade the importance of that game, I don't hesitate to point out how big of a deal it was. And when comments are made to the effect of "get over it, the Suns should be the ones complaining," I don't see any reason to withhold comments there either.

Bottom line is, the Kings got screwed over, and whether they choked in Game 7 or not, whether the Suns got jobbed or not, whether my birthday cake got ate by the dog or whether your spring wedding got rained on or your brother stole your allowance, it doesn't change what happened in Game 6. Ever.
 
And at some point you either let it go, accept that it happened and move on, or you continue to fret about it to the point of brain-death.

:p

It's just been hashed and re-hashed so often that I am surprised anyone can even work up any kind of emotion about it any more.

**** happens.
 
this is a sad sad thread...

kings fans need to let it go...

we had the best team in the nba in 2001-2002...

but the lakers had the more battle-tested and playoff-ready team...

the kings got jobbed--BIG TIME--in game 6. the kings choked--BIG TIME--in game 7. they had homecourt advantage in the series, but couldn't take advantage of it. they lost game 1 at arco. they lost game 7 at arco. they couldn't handle the true pressure situations. the kings were the better team, but, let's face it...phil jackson outfoxed rick adelman all over the basketball court. he knows what a rivalry is all about, and he won the two games he really wanted to win: 1 & 7. he got under the kings skin from the start with his zen master mind games, and he let the kings get under their own skin by the time game 7 rolled around. i will never contest the fact that the kings probably would have won game 6 had the officials called the game properly, but it's largely irrelevant when considering the nature of most evenly-matched series. game 6 was a fortunate victory for the lakers, but it was at staples center. even if the officiating hadn't been so pee poor, it's still the lakers court, and you're incredibly lucky if you can pull out a win against a team like that on their home court in the playoffs. circumstance is what it is. sometimes things don't go your way, and in the nba, you have to take it on the chin and push forward in spite of it. c'mon...the fact remains that the kings couldn't capitalize on the "arco thunder" when it mattered. you can't drop game 1 in a western conference finals series...at home. and you can't miss two-thirds of your free throws in game 7...at home.

it would have been un-****ing-believable if the kings had knocked the lakers out in 6, but let's get real. this is shaq-kobe-phil we're talking about here. a 7 game series was inevitable from the start. game 6 wasn't "dirty" like tim donaghy's methods were "dirty." the fourth quarter of game 6 was poorly called. but game 7 was also poorly called. the kings had every opportunity to win that series, but one of the BEST FREE THROW SHOOTING TEAMS IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE couldn't hit a free throw to save their lives. it's not rocket science. and it's certainly not conspiracy theory. it's all in the fans' heads just like it was all in the kings' heads during game 7. phil jackson had the kings right where he wanted them, and he let kobe and shaq do what they do best during game 7 while the kings and rick adelman were whining and crumbling beneath the weight of a more cool and collected team that would eventually reach dynastic proportions. had the kings hit only HALF of their free throws (and for those who don't wish to do the math, that would amount to a god-awful 50%), they would have won the series. winning an nba championship always requires the mental capacity to handle pressure situations. game 6 was a travesty, but travesties occur in the nba. they, like injuries, are an inevitable addition to the roadblocks that exist on the road to a ring.
 
VF21 said:
You're mixing up two different series. Hoopsie was referring to game 5 of the 2002 WCF, the game most Laker fans point to whenever the Kings fans point to game 6.
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I guess. I thought he was answering my question about what game Donaghy referreed in the Suns/Spurs series, since he quoted my post and said "game 5". This is, of course, before he edited his post, so I might be wrong.
 
Superman said:
I guess. I thought he was answering my question about what game Donaghy referreed in the Suns/Spurs series, since he quoted my post and said "game 5". This is, of course, before he edited his post, so I might be wrong.
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He is a she, BTW, and since she and I have had this argument many times, I know that's what she was referring to.

:)
 
Padrino, good post.

Great synopsis on the series. I agree with most of what you said, except the part about how hard it would have been to win a playoff game in Staples; we won Game 3 and were up 20 before we choked away Game 4. It's not impossible to steal a game in LA.

However, my point is that it's not unreasonable to point to Game 6 and say that the Kings got jobbed. Regardless of everything else that happened in that series, and regardless of how long ago it was, and regardless of the Tim Donaghy scandal, the Kings got jobbed out of Game 6 by the fourth quarter officiating. No two ways about it. As you may know, I live in Southern California. I watched that game with Laker fans, and they all agreed - without exception - that the game was not called fair, moreso than any other game in that series.

You can focus on Game 7 all day long, but there's possibly no Game 7 if Game 6 is called fairly. And that's why it's remembered so clearly five years later, so much so that some random columnist is including it on his "Greatest Beatdowns" list.

I'm not trying to rewrite history or get the record books changed. I'm simply saying that Game 6 was an atrocity that probably cost us the series, and I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.
 
This has come up again because there is now proof that NBA refs have been dishonest and fixed games. The one game that comes to everyones' mind when they think of refs cheating was game 6 of the 2002 WCF. We can't do anyting about it but only wonder. Was the game fixed? If so, will we ever know about it during our lifetime? I know of people who felt after that game that the refs were corrupt and vowed to never watch an NBA game again. They still watch on occasional game, but their passion for the game is gone. While I don't feel the same way, I can can certainly understand their feelings.

<But without a doubt the most heinous affront to the sporting fan and public was the busting of NBA referee Tim Donaghy. Donaghy, who earned $260,000 a year, was found to have passed on information on basketball games and adversely influenced outcomes of games.

This opened the door for organized crime and, in the mind of a league source, destroyed the image of the league for good. "From my view at courtside, you can't tell what is going on now," suggests the source, who was a former beat writer.
"Every nuance and gesture will be questioned -- when a call is missed or when a lead official is called upon for clarification on a judgment call, fans won't just boo -- they will scream 'fix' or worse."

My source further revealed Donaghy's actions also put in question games where he may not have been involved. "Over the years, I've seen games where the officiating has been a little funky, but nothing where I would've thought there was out-and-out cheating -- except for one game."

"The Western Conference finals between the Sacramento Kings and Los Angeles Lakers a couple years back where Sacramento was a dozen points or so ahead going into the fourth quarter of the final game in the series."

In less than nine minutes, all three of Sacramento's centers fouled out against Shaq -- it was ridiculous the stuff they (refs) were calling."

"Everyone knew that it didn't matter who came out as the Eastern Conference representative, (Commissioner) Stern and the television people wanted the glamour team (Lakers) coming out of the West for those (TV) ratings.">


http://blackathlete.net/artman2/publish/Commentary_1/Is_Image_Everything.shtml
 
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Juicy_J said:
This thread has been beaten to death, but I just wanted to add that I'm a Kings fan myself, and I was leaning towards the whole "fixed series" thing until I watched the games again.

Many Kings fans up to this point are still SORE like I was years ago.
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I have some of the games on tape and on my computer, watch them every now and then, and trust me when I say the Kings got more free throws overall because they were more aggressive. They were driving to the basket more. Don't forget Samaki Walker's halftime 3.
 
Variant said:
So anyways... yeah, Game 6 was a travesty of officiating. :)
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Hey, I dont have any problems with the officiating in Game 6...except for the most crucial call at the end of the game...Elbow meet Nose...*tweet!!!*...'foul on the nose...and make that a flagerant while we're at it!'
 
uolj said:
Actually, that never happened. And at least one other person on here remembers it like I do, so I'm not crazy.
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What didn't happen...Bibby having to shove gause up his nose to stop the bleeding during a timeout after 'the foul',due to the Kobe elbow?
 
I remember it as Bibby getting elbowed by Bryant and no foul being called. Then, Kobe received the in bounds pass and Bibby fouled him on purpose. There was a play earlier in the series where Bryant swung his arms around and hit Christie in the face when Christie was leaning in. That's where the "how can a face foul an elbow" thing came from.

It's really not a big deal, I just like to bring up my recollection every time it's mentioned. :p
 
Ha, like it's only King fans that think it was a job. This countdown is from ESPN for god's sake people. The first game every writer and radio personality around the country thought of when the Donahy news broke was the one were we got screwed.

The guys couldn't recover mentally because they had to look around at the end of game 6 and say to each other, "Oh my god guys, they actually fixed a game! We had the series won, over, kaput... and they took it from us!"

Sorry, but IMO They played that game 7 on a tightrope, I'm sure they were constantly wondering when that phantom whistle would come. I was amazed and proud they were able to take it to overtime. Kings fans have gotten so used to saying there team choked in attempt to prove they are somehow "more educated fans", it's sad really.
 
KP said:
Ha, like it's only King fans that think it was a job. This countdown is from ESPN for god's sake people. The first game every writer and radio personality around the country thought of when the Donahy news broke was the one were we got screwed.

The guys couldn't recover mentally because they had to look around at the end of game 6 and say to each other, "Oh my god guys, they actually fixed a game! We had the series won, over, kaput... and they took it from us!"

Sorry, but IMO They played that game 7 on a tightrope, I'm sure they were constantly wondering when that phantom whistle would come. I was amazed and proud they were able to take it to overtime. Kings fans have gotten so used to saying there team choked in attempt to prove they are somehow "more educated fans", it's sad really.
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They had games 4 and 6 stolen from them. Samaki Walker's 3 DURING Halftime changed everything in that game.

It's hard to win a 7 game series with a 2 game swing like that. Kings Actually won that series 5-1 in all actuality.
 
KP said:
Ha, like it's only King fans that think it was a job. This countdown is from ESPN for god's sake people. The first game every writer and radio personality around the country thought of when the Donahy news broke was the one were we got screwed.

The guys couldn't recover mentally because they had to look around at the end of game 6 and say to each other, "Oh my god guys, they actually fixed a game! We had the series won, over, kaput... and they took it from us!"

Sorry, but IMO They played that game 7 on a tightrope, I'm sure they were constantly wondering when that phantom whistle would come. I was amazed and proud they were able to take it to overtime. Kings fans have gotten so used to saying there team choked in attempt to prove they are somehow "more educated fans", it's sad really.
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Wow, and I thought I was the only one that noticed that all these last 23 years!!:D
 
KP said:
Kings fans have gotten so used to saying there team choked in attempt to prove they are somehow "more educated fans", it's sad really.
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I have never, ever ever attempted to prove any such thing.

Regardless of WHY the Kings choked, they choked. Game 6 was horrible but once it was over the team had no choice but to look forward and play their hearts out. They did...but only for 48 minutes. Had they done so in the most critical 5 minutes, no one would remember game 6.
 
Smills91 said:
They had games 4 and 6 stolen from them. Samaki Walker's 3 DURING Halftime changed everything in that game.
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Can't agree with you on Game 4. We gave up a 20 point lead, missed critical free throws in the final seconds of the game, and didn't finish out like a championship team should. The Lakers finished us out in Game 1 when they had established a big lead; we didn't do the same in Game 4.

We learned from that by Game 5, and finished them out in the final seconds, but Game 4 falls squarely on the Kings shoulders, from coach to players. Not the refs.
 
VF21 said:
I have never, ever ever attempted to prove any such thing.

Regardless of WHY the Kings choked, they choked. Game 6 was horrible but once it was over the team had no choice but to look forward and play their hearts out. They did...but only for 48 minutes. Had they done so in the most critical 5 minutes, no one would remember game 6.
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I would still remember Game 6. It wouldn't be such a touchy subject, but I would still remember how the refs screwed us out of an elimination game in the WCF.

And while I agree that Game 7 was ours for the taking and we didn't capitalize, I would say that only one or two players really "choked". Doug choked, and Peja didn't play well (perhaps due to the ankle injury suffered in the Dallas series). Either way, we didn't get the job done, shot only 16-30 from the line, and didn't rebound well in overtime, and lost the game.

But we still didn't get a fair shake in Game 6, and if the calls had been made correctly down the stretch in that game, we wouldn't remember Game 7. That's how I choose to look at it.
 
There will always be different opinions and emotions involved with game 6. I think we all have found our own ways of dealing with the immense disappointment, frustration, anger and heartbreak. I am quite honestly just very happy I was a Kings fan during those fabulous times since they might not come again for a very long time.

:)
 
Smills91 said:
They had games 4 and 6 stolen from them. Samaki Walker's 3 DURING Halftime changed everything in that game.

.
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Game 5 - Ball goes out of bounds of Webbers knee, he was the only one around that area and the refs gave the ball to the kings. Lakers were leading with a few seconds to go, if the lakers had the ball kings could only foul and then try a shot with a possible 3 point lead for the lakers.

Instead ......

Side note - Shaq fouled out game 5 with only one FTA all game long.

That game is not very well remembered by fans of both sides since the lakers won the series, if not it may not be game 6 that everyone would be talking about now.

Kings shot more free throws than the lakers for the series and I am sure that is because they were much more aggressive ;) but a team with Shaq and Kobe cannot shoot that many free throws for sure ;)
 
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