Divac update...

[HndsmCelt]

The funny think Is I remember 2 years ago the Lakerfaithfull were comming to this board to post about the demise of the Kings and their favorite mantra was that Vlade was too old, now 2 seasons of lower production later he is going to be an important part of their team. Perhaps the BEST judges of Vlade's skills, ablity and possible decline would be the coaching staff and the GM they report to, you know the guys that hired his replacement last year and determined a fair market value for THERI expectation on him for this comming year was 2 mill. I think it goes with out saying their confidence in Vlade ebbed beffor last season and nothein he did during the year built confidence in him.

 

[Gargamel]

So why do you care about the Lakers so much? Isn't that your ultimate wish - the doom of the Lakers? Why are you worried now that Banks would come to the Lakers since that helps in part what you're hoping for?

Watch out, Lamar. Don't get trapped in Double K's maze of psychological torture chambers.

 

[Gargamel]

The funny think Is I remember 2 years ago the Lakerfaithfull were comming to this board to post about the demise of the Kings and their favorite mantra was that Vlade was too old, now 2 seasons of lower production later he is going to be an important part of their team. Perhaps the BEST judges of Vlade's skills, ablity and possible decline would be the coaching staff and the GM they report to, you know the guys that hired his replacement last year and determined a fair market value for THERI expectation on him for this comming year was 2 mill. I think it goes with out saying their confidence in Vlade ebbed beffor last season and nothein he did during the year built confidence in him.

Nah. They weren't saying Vlade was too old so much as Vlade was so soft and floppy that he was merely a speedbump for Shaq.

If your staff's confidence in Vlade waned, I wish you much luck with Greg Ostertag. It'll be interesting to see how his varied talents are assimilated into the Kings' system.

 

[VF21]

I have been a fan of Vlade's since the beginning of his career in the NBA. Laker fan? Hell, no! But Vlade fan, yes. When he came to the Kings I was besides myself with joy.

Vlade has had a very good career in the NBA. Now, however, it's fading and within a couple of years it will be gone.

Quite frankly, the Laker fan comments don't bother me personally as much as the comments by Kings (or at least Serbian player) fans who cannot accept the inevitability of age, declining skills, etc.

IMHO we should honor Vlade for the time he spent with us and thank him for all he did. At some point I believe #21 should hang in the rafters of Arco because he was one of the players who actually turned this franchise around and made it fun to be a Kings fan again.

What we do not need to do is deny him the right to grow old, to fade... He's like a race horse, except Vlade was never that fast. His skills decline, his numbers decline, his minutes decline as the next generation of centers comes along. That's not a bad thing; it's life.

Realistically, Vlade's true worth just might be in the lessons he's able to teach the new guys on the Lakers. If I was a Laker fan, I'd much rather team members learn about passing, sharing the ball, etc. from Vlade than from Kobe...

 

[VF21]

Nah. They weren't saying Vlade was too old so much as Vlade was so soft and floppy that he was merely a speedbump for Shaq.

If your staff's confidence in Vlade waned, I wish you much luck with Greg Ostertag. It'll be interesting to see how his varied talents are assimilated into the Kings' system.

That's not quite fair, Gargy.

We had already reached the point where it was obvious we were going to need a new starting center. Petrie went out and got Miller, a very good replacement for Divac.

Divac was our back-up center. He left. We acquired a new back-up center, Ostertag, who will be able to do some things Vlade couldn't - he can block shots, he can clog the paint, AND he'll be perfectly happy coming off the bench, something Vlade may have said he had no problem with but was clearly not that happy about.

 

[Bricklayer]

If your staff's confidence in Vlade waned, I wish you much luck with Greg Ostertag. It'll be interesting to see how his varied talents are assimilated into the Kings' system.

its not that hard:

Brad Miller = Vlade Divac
Greg Ostertag = Scot Pollard
Darius Songaila = Larence Funderburke

The parallels are very obvious and very easy to see. Not sure why it seems so difficult.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Nah. They weren't saying Vlade was too old so much as Vlade was so soft and floppy that he was merely a speedbump for Shaq.

If your staff's confidence in Vlade waned, I wish you much luck with Greg Ostertag. It'll be interesting to see how his varied talents are assimilated into the Kings' system.

You miss the point. Kings staff lost confidence in Vlade as a starter, Tag while not a well rounded player still gets boards, blocks shots and clogs the lane, things the Kings would like to see in a bench player. Vlade was offered THAT job and a given a pay offer to match his ablities to fit that bill. LA offered him a starting job on a young team that looks to run the floor, pentrate the paint and get their star lots of open looks, and at a pay sacale appropriate for that job discription. So the question posed to Laker fans is do you honestly think Vlade can keep up, clog the lane, rebound missed shots and score in the paint agianst starting centers in the leage? It woud apera that you and other Laker appoligist think so, fine time will tell.

For the Kings fan the questions arround Tag are can he give solid min (10-20)behind Brad, getting boards, clogging the lane, blocking and altering shots as part of a second unit? Seems Laker fans question his bality to do this... ok time will tell.

 

[VF21]

its not that hard:

Brad Miller = Vlade Divac
Greg Ostertag = Scot Pollard
Darius Songaila = Larence Funderburke

The parallels are very obvious and very easy to see. Not sure why it seems so difficult.

Thanks, Brick!

That's a great way of looking at it, IMHO.

 

[Gargamel]

its not that hard:

Brad Miller = Vlade Divac
Greg Ostertag = Scot Pollard
Darius Songaila = Larence Funderburke

The parallels are very obvious and very easy to see. Not sure why it seems so difficult.

I fully realize that. Greg is still the second of your 2 centers like Vlade.

 

[Gargamel]

You miss the point. Kings staff lost confidence in Vlade as a starter, Tag while not a well rounded player still gets boards, blocks shots and clogs the lane, things the Kings would like to see in a bench player. Vlade was offered THAT job and a given a pay offer to match his ablities to fit that bill. LA offered him a starting job on a young team that looks to run the floor, pentrate the paint and get their star lots of open looks, and at a pay sacale appropriate for that job discription. So the question posed to Laker fans is do you honestly think Vlade can keep up, clog the lane, rebound missed shots and score in the paint agianst starting centers in the leage? It woud apera that you and other Laker appoligist think so, fine time will tell.

For the Kings fan the questions arround Tag are can he give solid min (10-20)behind Brad, getting boards, clogging the lane, blocking and altering shots as part of a second unit? Seems Laker fans question his bality to do this... ok time will tell.

All of this came out of wishing Greg good luck? Wow.

As to the Laker fan commentary, I agree that Vlade won't do those things and shame on Lakers staff if they think he can. I think Mihm can do those things you listed, however, and I think Vlade can provide some different skills to the mix.

 

[Bricklayer]

I fully realize that. Greg is still the second of your 2 centers like Vlade.

Vlade was the second of our two centers for roughly two months total (And it turned out he pretty much sucked at the role) out of 6 years.

 

[HndsmCelt]

All of this came out of wishing Greg good luck? Wow.

As to the Laker fan commentary, I agree that Vlade won't do those things and shame on Lakers staff if they think he can. I think Mihm can do those things you listed, however, and I think Vlade can provide some different skills to the mix.

Mihm is an interesting choice as a starter. Having never really been one in the NBA before time will defiantly tell if he can handle more than 20 min a game. My expectaion is that as a starter he will bring out the worst of both he and Vlade. Vlade has been demonstartably ineffective from the bench and with Mihms propencity for fouls I just don't see him as effective beyond the 25 min mark. The more likely move for Rudy T is to start Vlade (when he is able) and back him up with Mihm for extended min. Vlade will produce more but will bog down the offense, and his rebounding will be a definate liablity. Mihm's min will improve boards and speed, but heven forbid he be called on to play low post against an elite Center or have to pass the ball. Then again I could be worg about Mihms play and/or Vlade's ablities.

 

[Gargamel]

Mihm is an interesting choice as a starter. Having never really been one in the NBA before time will defiantly tell if he can handle more than 20 min a game. My expectaion is that as a starter he will bring out the worst of both he and Vlade. Vlade has been demonstartably ineffective from the bench and with Mihms propencity for fouls I just don't see him as effective beyond the 25 min mark. The more likely move for Rudy T is to start Vlade (when he is able) and back him up with Mihm for extended min. Vlade will produce more but will bog down the offense, and his rebounding will be a definate liablity. Mihm's min will improve boards and speed, but heven forbid he be called on to play low post against an elite Center or have to pass the ball. Then again I could be worg about Mihms play and/or Vlade's ablities.

You could be worg about Mihm. I suspect that Vlade would be more useful in the 2nd unit to help keep the offense flowing with the 2nd stringers. A guy with his passing skills won't bog down offense. Devean George is the type of player who bogs down offense.

Heaven forbid Mihm have to play an elite center? In that case, good thing there aren't too many elite centers. If you consider Brad Miller an elite center, I think Mihm did well against him.

 

[Lamar_Odom]

Mihm will most likely be a backup this year and could eventually start for the Lakers. He has lots of room for improvement and he is only 25 years old. This year is about learning, finding identity for the Lakers. The expectations are low and it's very understandable since the Lakers are rebuilding. While the Lakers are capable of surprising many, it will have to take a Cinderella season for that to happen. The Lakers will most likly be better than the "experts" give them credit for but they will go no further than the second round of the playoffs. For Vlade, he was signed as a stop gap as the Lakers transition from the Shaq era to the next dominant big man who always seem to find their way to the Lakers. Vlade will help, not as much as he helped the Kings but perhaps more than the Kings fans give him credit for. While Vlade will contribute, this team is not about Vlade.

 

[Gargamel]

Mihm will most likely be a backup this year and could eventually start for the Lakers. He has lots of room for improvement and he is only 25 years old.

I could be dead wrong on this, but I suspect that Mihm's showing is making Rudy think about that. He may want to keep him in the starting lineup for continuity's sake or until he starts to struggle. Unlike Vlade, Mihm has proven that he can play well with the other starters.

Where's the Lakers lost thread tonight, btw?

 

[JP_Lakerfan]

Mihm has been playing quite well in the exhibition games, whether he can continue that well into the season remains to be seen. He's still young for a big and has undergone many coaching changes, so I wouldn't look to past years for a comparison. We shall see.

Vlade may be old, he was last year too, but the Kings without question were playing MUCH better when he was in the starting line-up with Miller at the four spot. It still remains to be seen how well the Kings will function without him. Personally, I think they will do ok as long as both Webber and Peja stay healthy and can keep chemistry healthy inspite of their differences.

 

[VF21]

While Vlade was playing better with Miller at the 4, there's also the consideration that Vlade played better earlier in the season. (Exact same games, different way of looking at them...)

Vlade has been running out of steam towards the end of the season for a couple of years. This year, his performance in the playoffs was abysmal...

I find it ironic how some people (no one in particular, in this instance - just a generality) seem to forget Vlade was on the decline. That's why we got Brad Miller. Had Vlade stayed, Miller would still be our starting center this year because that's just the future of the team.

The Lakers wooed Vlade away with the temptation of more money and a starting position, which I assume has now faded into memory since they're strongly pushing Mihm's talents, etc.

 

[sloter]

its not that hard:

Brad Miller = Vlade Divac

Yes, but you are forgetting one big thing. Miller's numbers last year were the best when he played alongside Vlade (just like Webber's, Pollard's, Mason's, and Geiger's before him). When Vlade's minutes got reduced, Miller was MUCH less effective, and he was not really stellar in the playoffs either.
My point is: Do not expect Brad Miller to be an all-star this coming year.

 

[VF21]

Yes, but you are forgetting one big thing. Miller's numbers last year were the best when he played alongside Vlade (just like Webber's, Pollard's, Mason's, and Geiger's before him). When Vlade's minutes got reduced, Miller was MUCH less effective, and he was not really stellar in the playoffs either.
My point is: Do not expect Brad Miller to be an all-star this coming year.

Miller played as a PF for a good percentage of the year, and then shifted to center once Webber was back...

Whether you liked Webber coming back or not, Miller arguably was "less effective" because he was actually playing CENTER for the first time - late in the season.

Vlade was NOT the only good player on the Kings. This revisionist history, making him appear to be the only reason the Kings did any good at all, is just disrespectful to him AND the rest of the team.

And for the record? Miller suffered an elbow injury and never really performed quite the same after that. His elbow has completely recovered, however, and there's certainly no reason not to hope he can be effective for us this year.

 

[sloter]

VF21, I hope you are right. Let's wait and see.

I also didn't say that Vlade was the only good player on the Kings, but he did definitely make EVERYONE around him look better.

 

[ILV]

While Vlade was playing better with Miller at the 4, there's also the consideration that Vlade played better earlier in the season. (Exact same games, different way of looking at them...)

Vlade has been running out of steam towards the end of the season for a couple of years. This year, his performance in the playoffs was abysmal...

I find it ironic how some people (no one in particular, in this instance - just a generality) seem to forget Vlade was on the decline. That's why we got Brad Miller. Had Vlade stayed, Miller would still be our starting center this year because that's just the future of the team.

The Lakers wooed Vlade away with the temptation of more money and a starting position, which I assume has now faded into memory since they're strongly pushing Mihm's talents, etc.

They don't exactly have a choice since Vlade is injured.

 

[Mad D]

Whether you liked Webber coming back or not, Miller arguably was "less effective" because he was actually playing CENTER for the first time - late in the season.

Did you happen to see the interview were Miller said he struggle at the PF since ''he hates playing against these quick little guys'' as he put it

 

[sloter]

Did you happen to see the interview were Miller said he struggle at the PF since ''he hates playing against these quick little guys'' as he put it

I thought he was playing out of position too.

 

[outsider62]

Vlade was NOT the only good player on the Kings. This revisionist history, making him appear to be the only reason the Kings did any good at all, is just disrespectful to him AND the rest of the team.

This is no revisionist history; I would expect Vlade Fan to get the message. Sloter was referring to the fact that every starting forward played alongside Vlade had career years at that time.

Let me repeat their names: Sebalos, Mason, Rice, Web, Peja, and Miller.

But this is the past. I'm not confident how much and how well is Vlade going to play this year. Back injury at old age doesn't sound encouraging.

 

[Bricklayer]

Miller also got hurt in the middle of the season -- as I recall the first injury coming just before Webber returned. That was a far larger factor in his dropoff than anything else. Was not physically right at any point in the final two months, no matter who he was on the court with.


Vlade's fall off is more curious. I said at the time I was having a hard time believing he aged 10 years right in the middle of the year. His rebounding/defense was miserable all year, but there was still a big falloff in all aspects of the game in the last few months for him that went beyond mere numbers. He just seemed to quit playing there at some point. I hate to say it since I do respect the man, but in light of the way things turned out I have to wonder at this point, could it simply have been him pouting?

 

[quick dog]

Miller also got hurt in the middle of the season -- as I recall the first injury coming just before Webber returned. That was a far larger factor in his dropoff than anything else. Was not physically right at any point in the final two months, no matter who he was on the court with.


Vlade's fall off is more curious. I said at the time I was having a hard time believing he aged 10 years right in the middle of the year. His rebounding/defense was miserable all year, but there was still a big falloff in all aspects of the game in the last few months for him that went beyond mere numbers. He just seemed to quit playing there at some point. I hate to say it since I do respect the man, but in light of the way things turned out I have to wonder at this point, could it simply have been him pouting?

Brickie, this has to stop. This is the second post recently where I have felt that you are doing my talking for me. I have been thinking the same thing about Vlade. Nobody can deny that Vlade is one of the msot enotional players in the NBA. I think sulking , perhaps even unintentionally, may be possible.

 

[VF21]

I've felt the same way, although I hesitated to mention it.

I also think that Vlade has lost the hunger. To him, winning the International Championship for his country was arguably the crown to a great career. He doesn't need the NBA title; it doesn't mean the same thing to him that it means to American players...

At this point, I think Vlade still loves the game and loves to play but he's not so driven that he can't see anything else...

 

[Ryle]

Miller also got hurt in the middle of the season -- as I recall the first injury coming just before Webber returned. That was a far larger factor in his dropoff than anything else. Was not physically right at any point in the final two months, no matter who he was on the court with.


Vlade's fall off is more curious. I said at the time I was having a hard time believing he aged 10 years right in the middle of the year. His rebounding/defense was miserable all year, but there was still a big falloff in all aspects of the game in the last few months for him that went beyond mere numbers. He just seemed to quit playing there at some point. I hate to say it since I do respect the man, but in light of the way things turned out I have to wonder at this point, could it simply have been him pouting?

I frankly don't think that Vlade cares whether the team wins or losses and that was his biggest problem. Always the happy go lucky locker room guy but not one to bust his *** to get a victory. Just my .02 cents.

 

[VF21]

I think he did care at one time, but I really think winning the World title took away whatever edge he might have had.

 

[sloter]

Just because Vlade didn't ramble all kinds of nonsense to the media does not mean he did not want to win.
I think Vlade threw his body on the floor more than any other King, although he was the oldest. It all did change upon Webber's return, and I do agree that he did seem somewhat uninterested and like he lost hope towards the playoffs. I don't really blame him for this though as he's not the only one.