Divac update...

[CruzDude]

During the Lakers-Clips game yesterday the interviewed Vlade about his back (vertebra) injury. He said he doesn't know for which game he will return but that it likely will be 3 weeks more.

Then later they (sportscaster for the game) talked about how much of an up tempo game the Lakes are now developing. That does not breed well for ole Vlade.

Oh well, the Lakers get what they deserve.

 

[Lamar_Odom]

Oh well, the Lakers get what they deserve.

I thought in the NBA you, nothing is deserved unless you earn it (i.e., championships). But exactly, what do you mean by this sentence?

 

[VF21]

Lamar - In cases like this, I think you just have to understand that this is a Kings board. We are occasionally going to say things from strictly a Kings fan viewpoint.

Some Kings fans are just never going to say anything nice about the Lakers, just as some Laker fans would never deign to say anything civil about the Kings. It comes with the territory...and that part of the discussion stops right now.

Thank you.

 

[VF21]

Back to the topic of Vlade - I, too, wonder about his being able to keep up with the fast pace evidenced by the pre-season games. When Kobe even tells his team-mates to "Rebound and run, guys" that is gonna take a toll on Vlade. Luckily, they have indicated they'll be playing a platoon center ... they'll have to. Vlade was a lot of things, but watching him labor up and down the court was like watching an old steam engine pick up steam...

 

[Lamar_Odom]

Vlade will be most effective in a half-court set. They will need that especially if they want to make some noise in the playoffs.

 

[Double-K]

Seriously I think that, what the Lakers need is a backup PG for Atkins (you guys r not putting Rush up that spot, r u?) and a big man who can run the floor and grab rebounds pretty regularly, Vlade can't do either of them consistently......

 

[Mad D]

Seriously I think that, what the Lakers need is a backup PG for Atkins (you guys r not putting Rush up that spot, r u?)

They'll probably play Rush with Kobe and have Kobe handle the ball. They might also have Sasha run the point.

and a big man who can run the floor and grab rebounds pretty regularly, Vlade can't do either of them consistently......

and they'll probably have to leave that to Lamar Odom.

 

[KA_2]

Mihm is a very athletic big men that can cover a lot of ground quickly in an up-tempo offense, so he fits well. But even then, he doesn't get the opportunity to finish on the Lakers' fast breaks. The Lakers have have plenty of players that can finish on the break, making Mihm mostly unnecessary. He'll probably average no more than 1 or 2 ppg on the fast break in 23-24 mpg this season, which is just about the average for most big men in an uptempo offense.

Besides, fast breaks are almost always initiated off of rebounds, which the vast majority of the time a big man is going to grab. When Vlade grabs his rebounds, he's going to be making outlet passes to initiate the break, something he is the best in the league at doing. Vlade's role in a fast break offense will be as a outlet passer, not as a scorer. Same with Mihm, Grant, and Odom. Kobe, Odom, Butler, and Jones all thrive in the open court, and Brown and Sasha have already proven to be excellent initiators, so the Lakers fast break offense is going to be very good, as partly evidenced by the Kings game.

 

[KA_2]

They'll probably play Rush with Kobe and have Kobe handle the ball. They might also have Sasha run the point.

No, Rush isn't going to see a lot of PT this year. In fact, don't be surprised if he's traded before the deadline this season. He can bolt after this season for nothing, and the Lakers don't want that to happen. Same with Walton. Look for both to be in trade bait conversations this season. Heck, Walton's already rumored to be going to Boston (for Marcus Banks).

 

[VF21]

Besides, fast breaks are almost always initiated off of rebounds, which the vast majority of the time a big man is going to grab. When Vlade grabs his rebounds, he's going to be making outlet passes to initiate the break, something he is the best in the league at doing. Vlade's role in a fast break offense will be as a outlet passer, not as a scorer. Same with Mihm, Grant, and Odom. Kobe, Odom, Butler, and Jones all thrive in the open court, and Brown and Sasha have already proven to be excellent initiators, so the Lakers fast break offense is going to be very good, as partly evidenced by the Kings game.

Boy, I kinda hate to be the one to break it to you like this, but Vlade's ability to grab rebounds has diminished greatly. When you have a vertical leap measured in centimeters, it's hard to get up and grab those boards.

Oh you didn't...

You're using performance against our scrubs in a pre-season game to prove your point?

You are in for sooo much disappointment.

 

[KA_2]

Boy, I kinda hate to be the one to break it to you like this, but Vlade's ability to grab rebounds has diminished greatly. When you have a vertical leap measured in centimeters, it's hard to get up and grab those boards.

Vlade can still grab rebounds, his dimished skills in this area are greatly exaggerated by some. He simply needs the right minutes.

Oh you didn't...

You're using performance against our scrubs in a pre-season game to prove your point?

You are in for sooo much disappointment.

We'll see, won't we?

 

[VF21]

Yeah. Keep thinking it.

I ran the prediction game for this board last year and had to keep close watch on the box scores for every single game. Vlade didn't lead the team in rebounds more than once or twice. And that was when he was getting tons of minutes, playing while Webber was still out and Miller was at the 4.

How many Kings games did you watch last year?

 

[Double-K]

He'll probably average no more than 1 or 2 ppg on the fast break in 23-24 mpg this season, which is just about the average for most big men in an uptempo offense.

Duh!! that's like everyone in the Lakers beside KOBE!! or maybe Odom and Butler......hopefully.........

Same with Walton. Look for both to be in trade bait conversations this season. Heck, Walton's already rumored to be going to Boston (for Marcus Banks).

If that's the case, then that would be very stupid for both part, it's stupid for Celtics to give up on Banks because he's a very solid ballhandler and giving time (and learn from Gary) he can be a very good PG.......and for the Lakers part, you really don't want to get a PG body who does every SG's job........and his role model would be.......KOBE!! Banks could turn out to be the 2nd Dajuan Wagner.........(See reference on Wagner-Davis relationship)

 

[KA_2]

Yeah. Keep thinking it.

I ran the prediction game for this board last year and had to keep close watch on the box scores for every single game. Vlade didn't lead the team in rebounds more than once or twice. And that was when he was getting tons of minutes, playing while Webber was still out and Miller was at the 4.

How is it surprising that Miller outrebounded Vlade, he was top 8 in rpg last season? No one expects Vlade to be top 8 in rebounds. Miller at the 4 is pretty irrelevant.

How many Kings games did you watch last year?

About 40.

Duh!! that's like everyone in the Lakers beside KOBE!! or maybe Odom and Butler......hopefully.........

What?

If that's the case, then that would be very stupid for both part, it's stupid for Celtics to give up on Banks because he's a very solid ballhandler and giving time (and learn from Gary) he can be a very good PG.......and for the Lakers part, you really don't want to get a PG body who does every SG's job........and his role model would be.......KOBE!! Banks could turn out to be the 2nd Dajuan Wagner.........(See reference on Wagner-Davis relationship)

Oy:

1) You need to catch up on your Boston Celtics. They have no need for Banks, that’s why they traded him in the first place. His defense is replaceable by a guy named Tony Allen, who is an amazing defender and is only 22. Then there’s Delonte West, their biggest pickup of the offseason in terms of potential and youth as a backcourt asset (can play the 1 and 2). They want him to develop into a PG, and he’s certainly capable, and has already shown it in preseason. Not to mention they have Gary this year anyway.

2) The Lakers don’t want Banks to be a ball handler, Odom, Kobe and Vlade in the high post will do all the handling. They want Banks to initiate breaks (either off a quick pass from a big or off a rebound), but most of all they want him to defend the quick elite point guards in the NBA, something he is tremendously good at. Guys like Cassell/Hudson, Parker, Billups, Bibby, Davis…especially Parker and Billups.

 

[slugking50]

Vlade can still grab rebounds, his dimished skills in this area are greatly exaggerated by some. He simply needs the right minutes.


We'll see, won't we?

Yes we will all see that his diminished skills arent exaggerated. We saw it about 100 to your 40.

 

[Bricklayer]

Vlade can still grab rebounds, his dimished skills in this area are greatly exaggerated by some. He simply needs the right minutes.

And right there you demonstrate quite nicely that you really don't know what you're talking about. You're living in the past if you think Vlade can still be an effective rebounder. His legs are shot. He can still play the game with his mind, still do things that require skill, but boarding isn't one of them.

Vlade was the 166th best rebounder in the NBA last year (per 48min). He was behind such noted non-rebounders as Nene Hilario and Eddie Curry. He was outrebounded by Peja Drobjnak and Vitaly Potapenko. He did however manage to barely edge out Bobby Sura and Mo Taylor.

What will happen, of course, is that like all old players on 1 night out of 5 he will have a strong game -- the legs will feel good, whatever that is. He'll look almost like the old Vlade. And then for the next 4 nights he'll struggle. It is the same pattern that every old big man has experienced. Throw back nights when the body feels good. Followed by embarrassing nights when the legs just don't work anymore.

 

[PejaFanatic]

No fair Brick, everyone knows Mo Taylor can't rebound.

I know why because he's not tall enough compare to other forwards. And I am sticking to this theory!!!

 

[piksi]

Yeah. Keep thinking it.

I ran the prediction game for this board last year and had to keep close watch on the box scores for every single game. Vlade didn't lead the team in rebounds more than once or twice. And that was when he was getting tons of minutes, playing while Webber was still out and Miller was at the 4.

How many Kings games did you watch last year?

He led the team 9 times to be exact.

And while he was playing long minutes we were 43 -15. When his minutes got reduced we went 11-12.
He also led his team 28 times in assists ( by far our best PG), including 12/13 times in February. (we went 10-3 - our best month by far last season).

There is absolutely no fact You can provide which would prove the point You are trying to make.







http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teamsched?team=sac&season=2004

 

[6th]

Yep! I checked that out, piksi. He led twice in Nov. (one is tied w/Miller). Had a lousy Dec. (did not lead once). He then led twice again in Jan. (really great so far for a Center logging a lot of minutes). And, then came a fantastic Feb. where he led 5 times (one is tied with Songaila)...when was Brad's 1st injury again? And finally, no rebounding team leads after Feb 27th. Okay, he is really a rebounding juggernaut as he ages.

Obviously, the point is, Vlade cannot (or does not) lead a team in rebounding like he used to when he was younger (or shall we say, when his legs were younger).

Another point still is, Vlade's rebounding per game stats have steadily declined over the last few years. Is this a knock on Vlade? Hell no!! It is simply an admission that the player I love is getting older and less valuable as a player in the NBA.

 

[piksi]

Yep! I checked that out, piksi. He led twice in Nov. (one is tied w/Miller). Had a lousy Dec. (did not lead once). He then led twice again in Jan. (really great so far for a Center logging a lot of minutes). And, then came a fantastic Feb. where he led 5 times (one is tied with Songaila)...when was Brad's 1st injury again? And finally, no rebounding team leads after Feb 27th. Okay, he is really a rebounding juggernaut as he ages.

Obviously, the point is, Vlade cannot (or does not) lead a team in rebounding like he used to when he was younger (or shall we say, when his legs were younger).

Another point still is, Vlade's rebounding per game stats have steadily declined over the last few years. Is this a knock on Vlade? Hell no!! It is simply an admission that the player I love is getting older and less valuable as a player in the NBA.

there is still 43 - 15 vs 11-12

 

[Lamar_Odom]

and his role model would be.......KOBE!! Banks could turn out to be the 2nd Dajuan Wagner.........(See reference on Wagner-Davis relationship)

Kobe would be his role model? The most talented player in the league? The hardest working player? The clutchest player in the league? That would be great!

As far the relationship - if Banks works hard, he'll be fine. Kobe has a problem with half-hearted players.

 

[Double-K]

Kobe would be his role model? The most talented player in the league? The hardest working player? The clutchest player in the league? That would be great!

yeah.......if that's your "theory", then Banks would turn to be a talented, hard working, clutch, blackhole in the league.................I think that would be "great"...........(consider I'm from Las Vegas and I've saw Banks play for a while.......maybe what he need is some more blackhole-ing skill........which he "desperately" need them.....ha a ha ha)

 

[Lamar_Odom]

So why do you care about the Lakers so much? Isn't that your ultimate wish - the doom of the Lakers? Why are you worried now that Banks would come to the Lakers since that helps in part what you're hoping for?

 

[Double-K]

So why do you care about the Lakers so much? Isn't that your ultimate wish - the doom of the Lakers? Why are you worried now that Banks would come to the Lakers since that helps in part what you're hoping for?

Basically you are saying, Banks come to Lakers would be the doom of the Lakers? why......so you tired of defending something doesn't make too much sense and come back to sane now? ( just kidding for the sane part, you know I wouldn't attack my fellow kingsfans member........)

And you ask me why I care about the Lakers so much? if you must know, I care about them just like why Kerry want to know Bush's National Guard report, so you can attack them accurately and directly with fairness........not just bashing Kobe blackhole-ing the ball, or Rush's bad looking, or Brain Grant's bad hairstyling, or stanislav medvedenko's name being too complicated.........

and by the way, since I'm from Las Vegas and I watched Banks played a lot.......(he's from UNLV in case you didn't know)...... so I do care about Banks goes to the Lakers and ultimately being the doom of Lakers......

 

[Lamar_Odom]

Thanks. Silly me. For a while, I thought you just didn't want a player with potential to come to the Lakers.

 

[Double-K]

Thanks. Silly me. For a while, I thought you just didn't want a player with potential to come to the Lakers.

well..........that might be too!!

 

[Lamar_Odom]

That's better.

 

[VF21]

He led the team 9 times to be exact.

And while he was playing long minutes we were 43 -15. When his minutes got reduced we went 11-12.
He also led his team 28 times in assists ( by far our best PG), including 12/13 times in February. (we went 10-3 - our best month by far last season).

There is absolutely no fact You can provide which would prove the point You are trying to make.

Oh, excuse me. So the starting center for the Kings got the most rebounds 9 times out of 82... Sorry, but that pretty much illustrates my point. Vlade is aging. YOu can deny it; you can pretend it's not happening. You can pull statistics out of your hat to try and show he's still a force to be reckoned with as far as premiere centers go.

Unfortunately, it's not true.

My only point at the beginning of this was that if the Laker fans are expecting lots of rebounds from Vlade OR lots of blocked shots, they're going to be sadly disappointed. If they expect him to clog the lane the way Shaq did, they're going to be sadly disappointed. If, on the other hand, they want a finesse center who can still pass and has an almost scary court sense, then Vlade will do fine for them.

As for your 43-15 vs. 11-12... If you're trying to use those statistics to prove anything about Vlade, you've obviously missed the point. THOSE statistics are only to be used to show that bringing Webber back caused the Kings juggernaut to falter...



If you want a TRUE measure of Vlade's declining impact on critical games, check out his performance in the 2004 playoffs. That tells a tale much more clearly than regular season statistics. REGARDLESS of what happens in the regular season, our players are supposed to step it up in the playoffs, to do what has to be done when it needs to be done.

If you're a fan of Vlade's, you dishonor him and all his accomplishments IMHO by refusing to admit that he has, in fact, slowed down and become less effective.

 

[Gargamel]

Lamar - In cases like this, I think you just have to understand that this is a Kings board. We are occasionally going to say things from strictly a Kings fan viewpoint.

Cruz Dude esp.

 

[Gargamel]

and a big man who can run the floor and grab rebounds pretty regularly, Vlade can't do either of them consistently......

You mean a big who can run and board BESIDES Mihm?