Beno speaking up about Kings offense
- Thread starter Asaf
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There are very few decent PG defenders around the league. Even fewer who can shoot as well. Why what Head is doing is so remarkable.
And looking at the other problem spot -- because I do NOT want to break up the Donte/Daly defensive combination now that I've seen how effective it can be -- there are basically no available answers at PF either. Maybe only 1 or 2 in the entire league anyway with the poise and skills to run offense through them, and they aren't available. In fact after a summer in which nearly every elite PF switched teams, leaving their former teams PF-weak and their new teams of course unwilling to deal them and their now mega-contracts, there are almost no major cog in the offense PFs available either. Your biggest hope might be Zach Randolph. You want to add Zach's attitude and selfishness to a young team?
And hence why I think we may have to do this in house. And in house the only solution I see is Cousins. He has the skillset. He's just too young. But we wanted to get him expereince and accelerate his deveopment anyway, so I figure why not throw him in the fire and get the Reke/Cousins thing rolling early.
And looking at the other problem spot -- because I do NOT want to break up the Donte/Daly defensive combination now that I've seen how effective it can be -- there are basically no available answers at PF either. Maybe only 1 or 2 in the entire league anyway with the poise and skills to run offense through them, and they aren't available. In fact after a summer in which nearly every elite PF switched teams, leaving their former teams PF-weak and their new teams of course unwilling to deal them and their now mega-contracts, there are almost no major cog in the offense PFs available either. Your biggest hope might be Zach Randolph. You want to add Zach's attitude and selfishness to a young team?
And hence why I think we may have to do this in house. And in house the only solution I see is Cousins. He has the skillset. He's just too young. But we wanted to get him expereince and accelerate his deveopment anyway, so I figure why not throw him in the fire and get the Reke/Cousins thing rolling early.
3 weeks ago I wouldn't have agreed with this. But Demarcus has appeared to speed up his learning curve on defense enough that starting pf should be an option. He also seems to be in much better shape now, than 3-4 weeks ago. Looks thinner, lighter on his feet. How that would translate to guarding other pf's, I don't know.
But I can't imagine it not being near as effective as Carl has been, especially if he can manage to stay out of foul trouble. The flipside of course, is that he helps us in just about every other area more than Carl.
As long a Demarcus doesn't pick up stupid fouls on the perimeter, I;m not that worried about him getting beat by a pf every now an then. I don't think it would be as often as some think, and I'm becoming increasingly confident in the help defense that Donte and Dally would provide.
But I can't imagine it not being near as effective as Carl has been, especially if he can manage to stay out of foul trouble. The flipside of course, is that he helps us in just about every other area more than Carl.
As long a Demarcus doesn't pick up stupid fouls on the perimeter, I;m not that worried about him getting beat by a pf every now an then. I don't think it would be as often as some think, and I'm becoming increasingly confident in the help defense that Donte and Dally would provide.
I agree with you for the most part - the only question is can Cousins defend the faster PF's in the league while staying out of foul trouble. I think he can in the future, right now he will almost certainly be in foul trouble. It would be a good learning experience for him I would imagine - he has the work ethic and smarts it seems to learn how to stay out of foul trouble as he get into it. Dally/Counins would be a pretty formidable defensive group in our frontline I think - it's really how well can Cousins transition to the 4.
The only other mystery would be will Whiteside pan out - he could be the missing piece, and with our glut at the 4 it would make some sense to clear some PT for him once he's ready to go. He has the skillset we seek (minus the running the offense through him) to work with Cousins on the defensive end as well if his game translates to the NBA but that might be a year or more away due to his rawness.
A final thought - if Whiteside looks at any point like his game might translate it should be even more urgent to make some room for him to get some play time to help him mature at hopefully a quicker rate. Personally if the Dally/Cousins starting frontline does look like it will work I would say it might be time to dangle Landry + JT as trade bait and bring a solid shooting non-defensive liability pg (ball handling, court vision) to Sac if one is available.
The only other mystery would be will Whiteside pan out - he could be the missing piece, and with our glut at the 4 it would make some sense to clear some PT for him once he's ready to go. He has the skillset we seek (minus the running the offense through him) to work with Cousins on the defensive end as well if his game translates to the NBA but that might be a year or more away due to his rawness.
A final thought - if Whiteside looks at any point like his game might translate it should be even more urgent to make some room for him to get some play time to help him mature at hopefully a quicker rate. Personally if the Dally/Cousins starting frontline does look like it will work I would say it might be time to dangle Landry + JT as trade bait and bring a solid shooting non-defensive liability pg (ball handling, court vision) to Sac if one is available.
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I just dont see any plays run during the games. Tyreke is clearly injured, both ankles are hurting him. Now would be a great time for PW to do some coaching and work in some plays for the team to run while Tyreke rests. They need to put Tyreke on the shelf for at least a week to allow him to heal up. You can see he has no lift, no quickness, and his strong moves around the basket dont seem so strong so far this season. Plus defenses are geared to stop his penetration. So WHY does PW keep going to that play? Why all the ISO plays? Where is the ball movement? Where are the pick and rolls or pick and pops? Where are the screens? It looks like bad street ball. It is easy to defend when the ball stays on one side of the court the entire shot clock! If Westphal is calling plays and the players are just not executing them, that would be one thing. But I do NOT see PW calling any plays. Even in time outs, it looks like he is making pep talks, not drawing up plays. I havent seen a decent out of bounds play all year! Where are the staggered screens for Tyreke or Beno? The Drive and Kick is not an offense! Something has got to give here. Playing good defense is great, but that is only half the job. Westphal better find a way to get shooters open so they can make shots. He needs to have some sort of organized game play for each game, not the same game plan every game. The "Give it to Reke and stand and watch" offense does not always work. And the other team is WAITING for Tyreke every time. That is why he has had so many charge calls. They KNOW where he is going! How about running a screen for Tyreke to let him show off that jumper of his? If the Kings keep playing like this, they will be lucky to reach the 25 games they won last season. The Maloofs didn't spend ANY money in free agency AGAIN. They are supposedly waiting for the new CBA to be signed so they can get a better deal on an impact player. But the Kings need to have some sort of nucleus of players that an impact player could see and build on. Who wants to come to the Kings the way they are playing NOW? I sure hope PW has a plan, because so far it looks like the only lessons being taught are by the opposing teams that are beating the brains out of the Kings. TRY SOMETHING NEW!
To Fastrman: I would actually read your posts if they were not a GIGANTIC wall of text every single time you post! It's a shame because I would like to take the time and read them, I just value my eyesight more.
On topic now, I think moving Boogie to PF is a great idea. He really seems to move his feet well (think back to his combine results too), and as someone mentioned he actually appears to be somewhat comfortable guarding smaller players. Trade Landry, and then let me change my screen name Brick!
On topic now, I think moving Boogie to PF is a great idea. He really seems to move his feet well (think back to his combine results too), and as someone mentioned he actually appears to be somewhat comfortable guarding smaller players. Trade Landry, and then let me change my screen name Brick!
All you do is make up crap. Try watching the game. I don't know what this dislike of Cousins is but its getting tiresome. What Bricky said was the truth. In one of your posts you exaggerated how may turnovers Cousins had in the last game. I pointed out that he only had two. That was a fact my friend. Now you sat the he and Thompson were set up many times by Beno in the post for easy baskets, and they blew them. Do you know how many times Cousins got the ball in the low post by anyone in the last game. Once! Thompson got one pass from Beno in the post the entire game and it was a bailout pass when he had left his feet and had nowhere to go with the ball.
Beno is right. Our offense stinks and we run the pick and roll like crap. But he's also part of the problem. He, nor Tyreke use their picks properly, making it easy for the defender to fight through the pick. Both constantly ignore the roller to the basket. Even when Beno does come off a pick cleanly, he doesn't shoot from there and tries to drive in closer for his little jumper from the foul line. Also as pointed out, they don't guard Tyreke coming off the pick and roll because they don't think he can hit the shot.
How many times have you seen Cousins trying to set up in the low post and then be called out by either Tyreke or Beno to set a pick for them. 75% of the time Cousins gets the ball isolated at the top of the key. Not because he wants it there, but because he had to come out and set a screen and then they passed him the ball. You want him to stop shooting 15 foot jumpers. Then get the dude the ball in the low post. I mean for heavens sake he gets doubled every single time he has the ball in the low post. That means someone, somewhere is open. Cousins has a long way to go. He's going to have some good games and some bad games. But I'll tell you this. Put him at center right now on the Lakers, and you would be amazed how much better he would be.
Beno is right. Our offense stinks and we run the pick and roll like crap. But he's also part of the problem. He, nor Tyreke use their picks properly, making it easy for the defender to fight through the pick. Both constantly ignore the roller to the basket. Even when Beno does come off a pick cleanly, he doesn't shoot from there and tries to drive in closer for his little jumper from the foul line. Also as pointed out, they don't guard Tyreke coming off the pick and roll because they don't think he can hit the shot.
How many times have you seen Cousins trying to set up in the low post and then be called out by either Tyreke or Beno to set a pick for them. 75% of the time Cousins gets the ball isolated at the top of the key. Not because he wants it there, but because he had to come out and set a screen and then they passed him the ball. You want him to stop shooting 15 foot jumpers. Then get the dude the ball in the low post. I mean for heavens sake he gets doubled every single time he has the ball in the low post. That means someone, somewhere is open. Cousins has a long way to go. He's going to have some good games and some bad games. But I'll tell you this. Put him at center right now on the Lakers, and you would be amazed how much better he would be.
They are doubling him every time he touchs the ball. Which is a good way to run the offense. But first they have to get him the ball. Look! Here's the deal. You don't have to be quick on your feet to pass the ball. You want easy shots? Just keep the ball moving by passing it instead of dribblinig it. I paid attention to the starting unit on offense in the last game. The only player that seemed to be moving without the ball on a regular basis was Greene. The only other player that moved was Head, but Head had the ball in his hands more than Greene did. Tyreke hardly moves without the ball at all. Nor does Dalembert, but thats more understandable. When Beno doesn't have the ball in his hands he's also guilty of doing too much standing around, unless they're setting a screen for him to free him up. JT constantly moves without the ball. Casspi isn't bad at it.
My point is that you need to constantly have players moving. You need cutters constantly moving through the key, and you need the ball to move by passing it from one side of the floor to the other on a constant basis. Right now, no one trusts anyone else. Its become a comedy of errors. On one play Beno came off a screen set by Dalembert and dribbled to his favorite spot to shoot from and Dalembert was headed to the basket with the intention of rebounding if necessary. Beno, instead of shooting the ball, passed it to Dalembert and hit him in the back with it. Point being, is that there is zero chemistry on this team right now. The right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. When you have a situation like this, you start to see players as individuals trying to fix it all by themselves. Frustration builds up when you can't run a simple play and you can't score. Players start forcing plays and shots. Any resemblence of teamwork goes out the window.
You can blame having 7 new players on the team. You can blame the youth on the team. You can blame the coaching of the team. Or you can blame some combination of the three. I know what my choice is. You can only spin this so many times. Sooner or later people stop listening.
My point is that you need to constantly have players moving. You need cutters constantly moving through the key, and you need the ball to move by passing it from one side of the floor to the other on a constant basis. Right now, no one trusts anyone else. Its become a comedy of errors. On one play Beno came off a screen set by Dalembert and dribbled to his favorite spot to shoot from and Dalembert was headed to the basket with the intention of rebounding if necessary. Beno, instead of shooting the ball, passed it to Dalembert and hit him in the back with it. Point being, is that there is zero chemistry on this team right now. The right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. When you have a situation like this, you start to see players as individuals trying to fix it all by themselves. Frustration builds up when you can't run a simple play and you can't score. Players start forcing plays and shots. Any resemblence of teamwork goes out the window.
You can blame having 7 new players on the team. You can blame the youth on the team. You can blame the coaching of the team. Or you can blame some combination of the three. I know what my choice is. You can only spin this so many times. Sooner or later people stop listening.
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That's my biggest problem and the thing that basically soured me on the team before they even played a game. I don't buy the notion that they're suddenly going to spend the big bucks next season after we see what the CBA is going to be. I think that’s just a ploy to try and keep fans from jumping ship (I hope I’m wrong). The Maloofs seem to have resigned themselves to playing bargain basketball. They don't have the same fire and commitment to win a championship they once did. They may claim to, but actions (or lack of actions in this case) speak louder than words.
It’s amazing to me how many fans ardently defend this frugal approach. Many would have you believe the teams who spent money were the stupid ones and The Kings were just being smart by not spending rather than just being cheap, lol.
It’s not as if anyone expected them to get LeBron, or even Wade or Stoudemire but I think many fans, myself included, rightfully expected them to AT LEAST add one quality starting caliber player in FA.
A legit PG like Raymon Felton would have helped this team BIG TIME. He’s young enough (26) to be part of the future long term, too. He may not be a dazzling PG like Nash, Paul, Rose, Williams, etc. but he’s pretty darn good. He can get you 15 and 7 consistently and he’s a very good defender and good three point shooter to boot! Both things this team DESPERATELY needs.
And the Kings wouldn’t have had to break the bank to get him. He signed with New York for 2 years/15 million. Perhaps he could have been persuaded to become a King for say 5 years/40 million. Heck that’s not much more than they paid Beno!
They could have likely acquired Felton and still have been 10-15 million under the cap with Dalembert and Landry coming of the books next year.
I’m sure the Maloof apologists and Kings' company-men would find a way to spin things so that singing Felton would have been an ill advised disaster, though, lol.
It’s amazing to me how many fans ardently defend this frugal approach. Many would have you believe the teams who spent money were the stupid ones and The Kings were just being smart by not spending rather than just being cheap, lol.
It’s not as if anyone expected them to get LeBron, or even Wade or Stoudemire but I think many fans, myself included, rightfully expected them to AT LEAST add one quality starting caliber player in FA.
A legit PG like Raymon Felton would have helped this team BIG TIME. He’s young enough (26) to be part of the future long term, too. He may not be a dazzling PG like Nash, Paul, Rose, Williams, etc. but he’s pretty darn good. He can get you 15 and 7 consistently and he’s a very good defender and good three point shooter to boot! Both things this team DESPERATELY needs.
And the Kings wouldn’t have had to break the bank to get him. He signed with New York for 2 years/15 million. Perhaps he could have been persuaded to become a King for say 5 years/40 million. Heck that’s not much more than they paid Beno!
They could have likely acquired Felton and still have been 10-15 million under the cap with Dalembert and Landry coming of the books next year.
I’m sure the Maloof apologists and Kings' company-men would find a way to spin things so that singing Felton would have been an ill advised disaster, though, lol.
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EXACTLY.
The average fan is a low grade moron when it comes to how to build a winning team. They have all the strategic planning and self control of a 14yr old girl in a shopping mall with daddy's credit card.
This stage, what you are watching here, has been experienced by basically EVERY team in the NBA that is currently great. It is an absolutely necessary part of any rebuild. Average fan doesn't acknowledge that. Doesn't care. He's about instant gratification, and screw the future, planning, or anything else. He's also broke and homeless by 45 because he never figured out how to plan for the future.
The Cavs were here in 2003, the Magic were here in 2004-5. The Celtics were here in 2007. Dallas in 1999. The Heat were here last year. ALL great teams pass through this stage. ALL of them. There is a lfie cycle to the NBA that you begin to figure out once you move from average fandom to more sophisticated one. You can no more avoid where we are now than a butterfly can avoid being a caterpillar. You spend your money AFTER you draft your young talent, and start to turn things. You don't spend it willy nilly. You pick a target to help kick you into another gear AFTER you know where your weaknesses are going to be, who's panning out who's not, and AFTER you start having just enough success that a FA will actually consider signing with you. THEN you grab them. And the rest of the money you save to pay for the inevitable expenses of that young talent you have been acquiring. In fact it is the young talent that normlly is more important than the extra help anyway -- who is the more important figure, Dwight Howard or Rashard Lewis? CP3 or Peja Stojakovic (formerly)? Nonetheless you do add a big $$ guy, but not until you are ready to make your move.
The average fan is a low grade moron when it comes to how to build a winning team. They have all the strategic planning and self control of a 14yr old girl in a shopping mall with daddy's credit card.
This stage, what you are watching here, has been experienced by basically EVERY team in the NBA that is currently great. It is an absolutely necessary part of any rebuild. Average fan doesn't acknowledge that. Doesn't care. He's about instant gratification, and screw the future, planning, or anything else. He's also broke and homeless by 45 because he never figured out how to plan for the future.
The Cavs were here in 2003, the Magic were here in 2004-5. The Celtics were here in 2007. Dallas in 1999. The Heat were here last year. ALL great teams pass through this stage. ALL of them. There is a lfie cycle to the NBA that you begin to figure out once you move from average fandom to more sophisticated one. You can no more avoid where we are now than a butterfly can avoid being a caterpillar. You spend your money AFTER you draft your young talent, and start to turn things. You don't spend it willy nilly. You pick a target to help kick you into another gear AFTER you know where your weaknesses are going to be, who's panning out who's not, and AFTER you start having just enough success that a FA will actually consider signing with you. THEN you grab them. And the rest of the money you save to pay for the inevitable expenses of that young talent you have been acquiring. In fact it is the young talent that normlly is more important than the extra help anyway -- who is the more important figure, Dwight Howard or Rashard Lewis? CP3 or Peja Stojakovic (formerly)? Nonetheless you do add a big $$ guy, but not until you are ready to make your move.
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There is being smart with your money and then just being straight out cheap. The team needed a vet and a strong coach to establish leadership with a young team and they did not spend the money to do it. That is being cheap at the cost of development.
As for getting the ball down to the post: There is nobody on this team that throws a decent post entry pass. I've seen Head do it a few times, Beno here or there. Otherwise, the post entry pass is so bad the post player loses his position by the time he tracks it down. The best post entry pass I've seen thrown by this team was Cousins to Landry, so the team's best guy to throw the post entry is the guy they want posting. Assbackwards.
As for getting the ball down to the post: There is nobody on this team that throws a decent post entry pass. I've seen Head do it a few times, Beno here or there. Otherwise, the post entry pass is so bad the post player loses his position by the time he tracks it down. The best post entry pass I've seen thrown by this team was Cousins to Landry, so the team's best guy to throw the post entry is the guy they want posting. Assbackwards.
Who the hell is Dalembert? It would have been flat retarded to do anything but clear as much cap space as we could, and subsequently keep it clear until the right time, as Brick said, once things pan out a bit and you know what you have.
There is also an economic reality to this. The Kings are losing money. Badly. And they might move, which has it's costs. If they owner want to keep this thing a viable business, which is also a part of the championship formula mind you, you've got to be smart.
There is also an economic reality to this. The Kings are losing money. Badly. And they might move, which has it's costs. If they owner want to keep this thing a viable business, which is also a part of the championship formula mind you, you've got to be smart.
Did you read a word I said or are you just shooting from the hip? It seems like the latter. I didn't say anything about "instant gratification" or careless spending, or anything of the sort.
There’s a middle ground here. It’s not as if the only two options are doing diddly squat and breaking the bank on an overpaid second tier star.
I’m talking about adding a starting caliber player that’s affordable and that will be part of the team’s growth/maturation process. I provided an example of a player who not only fit that mold but was available and most likely attainable.
If The Kings didn’t have so much cap space I could see sitting on their hands but they have enough space that they could have signed a Felton caliber player and still have been in good shape cap wise.
As for the sophistication claim. Give me a break. There isn’t anything sophisticated about defending a team that’s strategy is to dump salary for years only to take a passive approach to free agency. Why dump all that salary in the first place if you aren’t going to use it to get better? Might as well have kept the Bibby/Artest/Miller/Martin squad if you’re going to just sit on the money you freed up by trading those guys. Heck, I even heard a Jazz announcer say that The Kings are doing Evans and Cousins a disservice by not surrounding them with better players.
Right now The Kings are gambling on draft picks and nothing else. Your examples of New Orleans, and Orlando only work in a best case scenario where Evans and Cousins end up the same caliber players that Paul and Howard are. Maybe that will happen in a few years, maybe it won’t. The point is, in the meantime, you at least need to add a legit starter or two to keep the team from being stuck in a state of perennial lottery bound suckage for the next couple of seasons while the Evans/Cousins duo develops. Otherwise, they'll probably just bolt for better teams when their rookie contracts are up. And who could blame them?
There’s a middle ground here. It’s not as if the only two options are doing diddly squat and breaking the bank on an overpaid second tier star.
I’m talking about adding a starting caliber player that’s affordable and that will be part of the team’s growth/maturation process. I provided an example of a player who not only fit that mold but was available and most likely attainable.
If The Kings didn’t have so much cap space I could see sitting on their hands but they have enough space that they could have signed a Felton caliber player and still have been in good shape cap wise.
As for the sophistication claim. Give me a break. There isn’t anything sophisticated about defending a team that’s strategy is to dump salary for years only to take a passive approach to free agency. Why dump all that salary in the first place if you aren’t going to use it to get better? Might as well have kept the Bibby/Artest/Miller/Martin squad if you’re going to just sit on the money you freed up by trading those guys. Heck, I even heard a Jazz announcer say that The Kings are doing Evans and Cousins a disservice by not surrounding them with better players.
Right now The Kings are gambling on draft picks and nothing else. Your examples of New Orleans, and Orlando only work in a best case scenario where Evans and Cousins end up the same caliber players that Paul and Howard are. Maybe that will happen in a few years, maybe it won’t. The point is, in the meantime, you at least need to add a legit starter or two to keep the team from being stuck in a state of perennial lottery bound suckage for the next couple of seasons while the Evans/Cousins duo develops. Otherwise, they'll probably just bolt for better teams when their rookie contracts are up. And who could blame them?
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1. Dally is not and never has been a leader. We needed a leader in the backcourt most of all.
2. Clear capspace for what? The lockout has scared most of the top FAs into signing extensions. Carmelo remains but he's not coming here.
3. I understand the team is losing money, but customer faith is not won back this way. It's not about breaking the bank, but spending a little more to get a major need, instead of going the cheap route and taking your chances with bad chemistry.
2. Clear capspace for what? The lockout has scared most of the top FAs into signing extensions. Carmelo remains but he's not coming here.
3. I understand the team is losing money, but customer faith is not won back this way. It's not about breaking the bank, but spending a little more to get a major need, instead of going the cheap route and taking your chances with bad chemistry.
No there really is no "happy medium" where all we do is spend a happy third of our capspace on a mediocre player we aren't really ready for a year before we are ready to win anything anyway. You've got to not only keep the max offer open, you have to keep enough money to extend qualifying offers to Daly or Landry. You have to keep enough money on hand in 2-3 years to be able to start extending these kids. And you want to keep every dollar you can to jump in and be a major trade facilitator -- we are a top team now for anybody loking to dump salary. None of the above is worth spending on a middling vet over. A major impact player? Sure. But there were none who would come even if any were good fits. So here we are, and fan panic aside, we're still in good position for the future. We've got youth, we've got a on of capsapace in ayear when few team do, we are in extremely strong positon to make one or more targeted acquistions once we know what the targets should be.
And as an aside, Daly has surprised and impressed me with his defensive leaderhip all things considered.
And as an aside, Daly has surprised and impressed me with his defensive leaderhip all things considered.
There seems to be a contradiction in logic there. You say they've got to keep that max offer open. Then a moment later, you point out how no max player would have come here anyways. So why keep enough money available for a max player when we all know there's a snowball's chance in hell of one signing here? That seems like shooting themselves in the foot to me.
Basically, Evans and Cousins are supposed to be your future. So the best approach is to surround them with a decent team for the next few seasons. Then in a few seasons once Evans and Cousins develop, you already have a decent team around them which should translate to a good team overall.
But if you surround Evans and Cousins with bench caliber players for the next few seasons, not only will the team suck, but you’re probably hurting Evans and Cousins progress and your chances of resigning them as well.
Basically, Evans and Cousins are supposed to be your future. So the best approach is to surround them with a decent team for the next few seasons. Then in a few seasons once Evans and Cousins develop, you already have a decent team around them which should translate to a good team overall.
But if you surround Evans and Cousins with bench caliber players for the next few seasons, not only will the team suck, but you’re probably hurting Evans and Cousins progress and your chances of resigning them as well.
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