Worst case scenario is Drummond.... Right ?

[King in England]

I have a feeling Beal will go top 4 therefore Drummond or Robinson or MKG(doubtfull) slide to 5. I can see us passing on whoever it is tho and picking Barnes. Personnally I would take any of those 3 b4 Barnes but thats just me.

 

[Siranthony]

I have a feeling Beal will go top 4 therefore Drummond or Robinson or MKG(doubtfull) slide to 5. I can see us passing on whoever it is tho and picking Barnes. Personnally I would take any of those 3 b4 Barnes but thats just me.

Why is anyone here talking about Beal? He is a slightly taller IT but probably not as quick. We don't need another guard!

 

[Dime Dropper]

Why is anyone here talking about Beal? He is a slightly taller IT but probably not as quick. We don't need another guard!

I don't want Beal either but he is absolutely nothing like IT. I have no idea how you came up with that comparison.

 

[HndsmCelt]

there do seem to be a few scenarios where MKG drops to 5 but I doubt it. If he does he is a no brainier for us. Other wise we probably are better off taking a gamble on Drummond. If we were only one piece away from being a serious play off team I'd say draft smart and take the higher odds player in Barnes or Robinson, but we have too many holes in the roster and owners who will not/can not spend to fill them, so you roll the dice on Drummond. If you miss oh well you were lotto bound anyway bu if he steps up then you just took a leap forward.

 

[Kingster]

I personally would have to wait until after the workouts to feel comfortable with him. Thing is, this guys ceiling is incredibly high. We're talking All NBA defense. We're talking Ibaka/D12/Bynum type impact on defense. So the question becomes in my mind, what if he reaches 30% of his ceiling? 50%? 75%? Even if he doesn't reach his potential he could still be exactly what we need and a damn good defender, just not at an All-NBA level.

But does he have the intelligence and motor to reach even half way to his ceiling? The interviews will tell a lot. It's just so damn tempting even pre-workouts/interviews as the NBA is very short on defensive bigs, and with such a high ceiling even if he only gets half way there, he's still better than most, and better than most defensively still work well next to Cuz. Better than JT. A whole lot better than Hayes.

Rainmaker, if the guy gets to a 75% of potential level he's an absolute bust. I mean that he won't even be in the league at that level. He'll be let go by the Kings, picked up by another desperate team, let go again, then the D league, and you will never hear from him again. There is such an incredbile fine line in the NBA between a good player and a bust there's no way 80% gets it done, much less 75%. I'm hearing a whole lot of people trying to convince themselves that this guy is worth the gamble. That's when I run for the hills....

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I don't want Beal either but he is absolutely nothing like IT. I have no idea how you came up with that comparison.

Maybe he meant MT.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

Since Drummond is the topic, I went and dug this vid back up. Now his college work obviously >> his high school work in terms of importance. BUT...BUT...watch this:

The activity level, the ridiculous defense played up top, the multiple great passes -- the one at 1:37 is particularly eyebrow raising. And tell me this is the same guy. And that the guy doesn't have offensive skill. He's throwing no look behind the back passes. At one point he leads the break, pauses the dribble midstride, goes behind his back, and continues flying in for the layup. I mean...come on. That's something a certain other Kings big man might do. DeAndre Jordan couldn't do it if you locked him in a gym for the rest of his life.

Holy hell. And I mean that in a good way.

Completely agree, you don't see that sort of passing out of swift, athletic big men. This being a mixtape, yeah I see the athleticism, but translating to a league where everyone's probably 50% more athletic than the players to that setting...let's just say I'm not jumping up and down for that. But the passing is something that's appealing. Interesting with him and Cuz down low just putting out passing clinics out there. Again, I think there's some intelligence with this kid, it's just that I don't think he's a star. For a team, like us, though, he complements--Poor rebounder? Cuz takes care of that. He can patrol the rim and block shots where Cuz is more groundbound. Doesn't need to score, so his duties should be defense and shotblocking, and the occasional rebounding. We need to treat him purely as a defensive type for him to reach his potential. Not sure, if looking back five years from now, we're gonna say, wow, that guy is averaging 15-10-3 whatever and say he's a star. But if as a complementary defensive center for Cuz, we can be impressed about the synergy between those two and say he was still worth it.

 

[Glenn]

Yep, as i said in an earlier post he would be under no pressure at all on offense so it's largely irrelevant.

But the free throw thing isn't pretty.

The free throw thing is ugly. I could overlook at if it weren;t for the fact that Drummond disappears in games. He does not seem dedicated to the game of basketball. It is perplexing howe anyone could be that awful in ft% and frankly, I don't think the other stats put him on another planet either. A guy with such size and athleticism should be first in his league, especially the league he played in, in rebounds and maybe even shot blocking. I waffle back and forth about him because he is truly an amazing athlete. The problem seems to be that being a great athlete doesn't translate into being a great basketball player.

I haven't watched him enough on the defensive side but with his athleticism, he could be remarkable ..... if he wants to.

 

[King in England]

Why is anyone here talking about Beal? He is a slightly taller IT but probably not as quick. We don't need another guard!

I never said I wanted to draft Beal I just said I thought he'd go before we pick. Sorry if that wasnt clear.

My point was that it would be a good thing if he did go in the top 4 as it means 1 of the other 3 drop 2 us.

My preference (in this situation) for what it's worth is...

1. MKG
2. Drummond
3. Robinson
4. Trade the Pick

 

[Glenn]

Why is anyone here talking about Beal? He is a slightly taller IT but probably not as quick. We don't need another guard!

I mention Beal as I hope someone with a top 4 pick takes him. I don't think our team needs him at all as we are already overstocked at the guard position. If there are people who say we should pick him, I just will disagree along with you.

I'll say what I said before, I hope that the teams that draft before us take the obvious best player, Davis (sob!), and then go for offense with Barnes and Beal. This leaves the 4th and 5th pick to be any of MKG, Drummond, or Robinson. We don't need a great scorer as we are already jammed to the gills with offense among the starters.

I would want MKG over Drummond as who knows what Drummond will evolve into. As it stands, he is a huge underachiever. If he realizes a percentage of his upside, he is the clear cut pick above MKG but I have no crystal ball. I DO know Drummond disappears on offense and seems almost disinterested in offense (not necessarily bad for the Kings) and is a freakish athlete. The 29.5% FT percentage scares me as I think it reveals something of his attitude. If he just sucks like Wilt and Shaq before him, that's a different deal.

MKG is the sure thing. Drummond could be much better on defense for us. I frame all of this as to what our team needs.

If we get put in this position, who do you pick, Drummond, Robinson, or MKG? The answer may depend on whether you think the Kings need a sure thing, implying that we do not have the manpower now and Smart and a misaligned collection of players is NOT the problem. Do we go for the gusto and hope Drummond becomes what he can be? I do not have the answer but 6'11" sounds better than 6'6". I also think there is a Cousins and Clifford Ray factor. A big man coming to the Kings benefits from having Cousins playing next to him (seeemed to work for Dalembert and JT) and Ray who seems to be either be in the right place at the right time or should be given credit for the rapid progression of Cousins and the stalwart play of JT.

Seems like I just went around in a big circle but then that's where my head is.

 

[jalfa]

Since Drummond is the topic, I went and dug this vid back up. Now his college work obviously >> his high school work in terms of importance. BUT...BUT...watch this:

The activity level, the ridiculous defense played up top, the multiple great passes -- the one at 1:37 is particularly eyebrow raising. And tell me this is the same guy. And that the guy doesn't have offensive skill. He's throwing no look behind the back passes. At one point he leads the break, pauses the dribble midstride, goes behind his back, and continues flying in for the layup. I mean...come on. That's something a certain other Kings big man might do. DeAndre Jordan couldn't do it if you locked him in a gym for the rest of his life.

Its enough to make you wonder, really wonder, if Drummond as a frosh was both a) 20lbs too heavy and b) being misused as a postup player. Ala what they did to Gerald Wallace back in the day, forcing an all court faceup guy into a limited role where he just wasn't comfortable yet. In that video of his high school work he looks like Kemp at times like Cwebb at others. It doesn't look at all like the sometimes sluggish giant at UConn. The guy in that video can defend the pick and roll, can pass, run the floor, dribble. If Drumond was closer to 260 in that vid, and is back in that range now, and in a better system...

that last one gives me a bit of toothache.

 

[Glenn]

I never said I wanted to draft Beal I just said I thought he'd go before we pick. Sorry if that wasnt clear.

My point was that it would be a good thing if he did go in the top 4 as it means 1 of the other 3 drop 2 us.

My preference (in this situation) for what it's worth is...

1. MKG
2. Drummond
3. Robinson
4. Trade the Pick

Probably the safest but I wish MKG was taller.

 

[Uncia03]

Since Drummond is the topic, I went and dug this vid back up. Now his college work obviously >> his high school work in terms of importance. BUT...BUT...watch this:

The activity level, the ridiculous defense played up top, the multiple great passes -- the one at 1:37 is particularly eyebrow raising. And tell me this is the same guy. And that the guy doesn't have offensive skill. He's throwing no look behind the back passes. At one point he leads the break, pauses the dribble midstride, goes behind his back, and continues flying in for the layup. I mean...come on. That's something a certain other Kings big man might do. DeAndre Jordan couldn't do it if you locked him in a gym for the rest of his life.

Its enough to make you wonder, really wonder, if Drummond as a frosh was both a) 20lbs too heavy and b) being misused as a postup player. Ala what they did to Gerald Wallace back in the day, forcing an all court faceup guy into a limited role where he just wasn't comfortable yet. In that video of his high school work he looks like Kemp at times like Cwebb at others. It doesn't look at all like the sometimes sluggish giant at UConn. The guy in that video can defend the pick and roll, can pass, run the floor, dribble. If Drumond was closer to 260 in that vid, and is back in that range now, and in a better system...

There is a reason that he was at the very top of the potential draft list with Davis at the start of the season.
I watched UCONN play about 12-15 times not including the tournament games and can say that the ball-handling, passing, and offensive aggresion shown in the highlight mix did not come out in his play at UCONN.

And his defense/rebounding (which was the thing I was watching more closely than his offense) did not impact the game the way it should have for his size/strength/athleticism.

In my personal mock draft I would reluctantly take Drummond at 5 if he fared well in the interviews and Petrie felt he could get Drummond to play with some passion/force. But his play over the course of the year was not remotely top 5 material on either the offensive or defensive end.

 

[Bricklayer]

There is a reason that he was at the very top of the potential draft list with Davis at the start of the season.
I watched UCONN play about 12-15 times not including the tournament games and can say that the ball-handling, passing, and offensive aggresion shown in the highlight mix did not come out in his play at UCONN.

And his defense/rebounding (which was the thing I was watching more closely than his offense) did not impact the game the way it should have for his size/strength/athleticism.

In my personal mock draft I would reluctantly take Drummond at 5 if he fared well in the interviews and Petrie felt he could get Drummond to play with some passion/force. But his play over the course of the year was not remotely top 5 material on either the offensive or defensive end.

Oh I agree he didn't look like the same player at all. That is the great mystery I want answered. Why? Was it more Drummond himself or system? Were their outside factors that have been dealt with now? Drummond has the potential to be the great wildcard of this draft, and one that is going to kill some GM who takes him when he shouldn't, or doesn't take him when he should.

Back in the day the last time we were terrible forever this franchise was absolutely famous for making miserable draft decisions. We took Joe Kleine over Karl Malone, Chris Mullin and Joe Dumars (and reportedly turned down an offer off Clyde Drexler for him). We took Harold Pinckney over Mark Price and Dennis Rodman. We took Kenny Smith over Kevin Johnson and Reggie Miller. It was just an annual shop of horrors for us and those are franchise altering mistakes. The Reke and Cousins picks were great. The Jimmer pick not so much. I don't want to see us make a mistake on this guy and watch him blow up on another team. I've been leaning toward need in this fdraft as I think that's where we are in our development -- time to get the right pieces around our young will be stars. But you always say draft for superstar potential when you are in the Top 5. Take your shot at getting the biggest stud available, because you may not be back to take another for a very long time. Well, that high school kid had that potential, and he could be both the need and the stud. We need to know if he is coming back after a one year vacation, and if so why.

 

[bajaden]

I think the fact that Drummond would be asked to play PF and not center might help him. I don't think he likes playing with his back to the basket. I think he see's himself in more of a Amare Stoudemire type role. I could certainly live with a defensive Amare Stoudmire. Here's one of the problems I have with Drummond, and I hope I can make myself understood properly. After watching him play in some highschool games, and god knows how many times this past season, I don't think he likes playing with other players. Or, doesn't have an idea of how to play with other players. To be part of a team offense and defense.

In highschool, he was the team. He did it all. The rest of the players were simply there. It all revolved around him. Suddenly he was put into a position where he was just a part of the team and not even the main part, with Lamb and Napier on the team. UCONN was a guard oriented team. Thats where almost all the scoring came from. I think Drummond was confused as to how to fit into that scenario. There were times when he looked downright lost out there.

I don't want to absolve him of any responsibility for his play. If anything, it doesn't speak well of him for his ability to adapt. What I'am saying is that maybe at PF, where he can play away from and facing the basket more, there just might be a player there worth the 5th pick in the draft. Thats about as much as I can concede..

 

[Hallama]

Drummond's talent level at pick five is worth the risk. Go hard after Ersan, resign JT and the Kings have a really deep front court:

PF: Ersan, JT, Chuck
C: Cousins, Drummond

I may change my mind if Cousins and Drummond both do a behind the back pass on the same play.

 

[Gilles]

Ilyasova will apparently be a very popular guy this summer. With salary restraints and overall ability of Sacramento to attract FAs turkish player is a pipe dream. Keeping Thompson is maximum Kings can hope for.

 

[bajaden]

Ilyasova will apparently be a very popular guy this summer. With salary restraints and overall ability of Sacramento to attract FAs turkish player is a pipe dream. Keeping Thompson is maximum Kings can hope for.

Sadly I think your right. It looks like the Nets intend to pursue Ilyasova. I'd say our odds are very slim..

 

[hrdboild]

Oh I agree he didn't look like the same player at all. That is the great mystery I want answered. Why? Was it more Drummond himself or system? Were their outside factors that have been dealt with now? Drummond has the potential to be the great wildcard of this draft, and one that is going to kill some GM who takes him when he shouldn't, or doesn't take him when he should.

I have the same questions about Harrison Barnes. It seems like ages ago now, but the same scouts who are saying Barnes is a soft jump shooter (which honestly, is exactly what he was at North Carolina) had him pegged as the first overall pick out of high school, and they weren't wrong. The athleticism, the aggression, and the confidence that he showed in high school disappeared once he came to college. If they're gone for good he's a solid starter in the right system, nothing more. But if he can get some of that swagger back than he'd be worth a top 5 pick. If I could answer why, I'd have a better idea of where to rank him.

 

[Gary]

Oh I agree he didn't look like the same player at all. That is the great mystery I want answered. Why? Was it more Drummond himself or system? Were their outside factors that have been dealt with now? Drummond has the potential to be the great wildcard of this draft, and one that is going to kill some GM who takes him when he shouldn't, or doesn't take him when he should.

Back in the day the last time we were terrible forever this franchise was absolutely famous for making miserable draft decisions. We took Joe Kleine over Karl Malone, Chris Mullin and Joe Dumars (and reportedly turned down an offer off Clyde Drexler for him). We took Harold Pinckney over Mark Price and Dennis Rodman. We took Kenny Smith over Kevin Johnson and Reggie Miller. It was just an annual shop of horrors for us and those are franchise altering mistakes. The Reke and Cousins picks were great. The Jimmer pick not so much. I don't want to see us make a mistake on this guy and watch him blow up on another team. I've been leaning toward need in this fdraft as I think that's where we are in our development -- time to get the right pieces around our young will be stars. But you always say draft for superstar potential when you are in the Top 5. Take your shot at getting the biggest stud available, because you may not be back to take another for a very long time. Well, that high school kid had that potential, and he could be both the need and the stud. We need to know if he is coming back after a one year vacation, and if so why.

I remember asking about that myself for a guy named DeAndre Jordan. Turns out it looked as if it was the system holding him down.. He's a steal in the second round..

As for Drummond, no.. It's not the system. The guy seems lazy to me. Seems he takes a lot of plays off, and steps out to guard the wrong player defensively which puts him way out of position for a rebound.

If we were to draft Drummond I would wager that he wouldn't even be useful for the Kings for at least 3 years, and in 3 years it would be about 30/70 that he would crack the rotation.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Here comes the excuses to justify all the wishful thinking for Drummond.

 

[Bricklayer]

I have the same questions about Harrison Barnes. It seems like ages ago now, but the same scouts who are saying Barnes is a soft jump shooter (which honestly, is exactly what he was at North Carolina) had him pegged as the first overall pick out of high school, and they weren't wrong. The athleticism, the aggression, and the confidence that he showed in high school disappeared once he came to college. If they're gone for good he's a solid starter in the right system, nothing more. But if he can get some of that swagger back than he'd be worth a top 5 pick. If I could answer why, I'd have a better idea of where to rank him.

Is that true though? I never saw Barnes play in high shcool, but my impression was that the scouting miss on him was exactly the opposite of the Drummond mystery. i..e That Barnes in fact excels at exactly the things the scouts thought he would excel in coming out of high school, its jsut suddenly on a bigger stage everybody realized that those thigns alone aren't enough.

Meanwhiel with Drummond he DIDN'T flash the same skill spackage at all in college. It would be as if Barnes came to college and just became a spot 3pt shooter from the corner, but never came off screens for midrange jumpers.

But like I say, I never watched Barnes in high school, so maybe I could be worng on this. Maybe he was more then and it went away somewhere along the line.

 

[Bricklayer]

I remember asking about that myself for a guy named DeAndre Jordan. Turns out it looked as if it was the system holding him down.. He's a steal in the second round..

As for Drummond, no.. It's not the system. The guy seems lazy to me. Seems he takes a lot of plays off, and steps out to guard the wrong player defensively which puts him way out of position for a rebound.

If we were to draft Drummond I would wager that he wouldn't even be useful for the Kings for at least 3 years, and in 3 years it would be about 30/70 that he would crack the rotation.

And with the proviso, once again, that this team could very much use a DeAndre Jordan and if that's what we got out of the draft it would hardly be a disaster, let me one more time ask exactly what about this video reminds you in any way of DeAndre Jordan? Dunks aside.:

 

[Gary]

He doesn't remind me of Jordan, however I remember saying the same about Jordan as you said about Drummond in regards to if it was the system he played in or his actual talent.

Personally though I don't think Drummond will be any good. He has the potential to fill the needs of the Kings but I don't thing he will based on watching him last year.

 

[Gilles]

Having huge concerns over Drummonds ability is valid but I would like to ask guys who are 100% sure Drummond is a bust what was your opinion of Favors?

 

[The_Jamal]

And with the proviso, once again, that this team could very much use a DeAndre Jordan and if that's what we got out of the draft it would hardly be a disaster, let me one more time ask exactly what about this video reminds you in any way of DeAndre Jordan? Dunks aside.:

Highlight videos are absolutely horrid measures to judge a player, especially of high-school footage. You're smart enough to know that.

No one's denying the potential of Drummond. If he hits, he'll be an absolute home-run and one of the best bigs in the last decade. However, whether or not he was used correctly at UCONN, does not give him an excuse not to play 100% and work his butt off. And that's the big red flag with him for me. I could make a 10 minute lowlight video of Drummond simply being lazy and not doing the things you expect out of a potential top 5 lottery pick in the NBA.

The Kings are finally in a position where we don't need to hit on that lottery pick to be a franchise player. Cousins is seemingly on his way to being that guy for us and Reke still has the potential to be his #2. I would much rather 1. Trade up for MKG, 2. Work out a deal with Houston involving #12 and Lowry, 3. Stay put and see who we get to choose from, and 4. Trade our 1st rounder for Granger/Iggy type of player.

 

[Gary]

Having huge concerns over Drummonds ability is valid but I would like to ask guys who are 100% sure Drummond is a bust what was your opinion of Favors?

I liked him, but I knew it was going to be a few years until he reached his potential. I liked Cousins a lot more though. Much more NBA ready than Favors was. I think Favors will do fine if given a chance.

 

[gunks]

Wouldnt be at all surprised if Drummond goes top 3, rendering all this moot.

My mock top 5 based on hearsay and conjecture:

1: Davis. 2: Robinson (after he measures out fullsized). 3/4: Going to be Drummond and Beal, not necessarily in that order (both those guys have crazy potential). 5: MKG to the Kangs!!!

 

[captain bill]

Wouldnt be at all surprised if Drummond goes top 3, rendering all this moot.

My mock top 5 based on hearsay and conjecture:

1: Davis. 2: Robinson (after he measures out fullsized). 3/4: Going to be Drummond and Beal, not necessarily in that order (both those guys have crazy potential). 5: MKG to the Kangs!!!

It honestly wouldn't surprise me to see the Bobcats take Drummond, it just seems like the MJ thing to do. Apparently Washington likes Beal, and I'm guessing the Cavs would take MKG in that situation. I have a funny feeling GP might pass on Robinson and go after Sullinger in that situation (although I would hope not).

 

[Gilles]

Cho was the main decision-maker in the last draft for 'Cats. No reason it changes this year.

Wouldnt be at all surprised if Drummond goes top 3, rendering all this moot.

My mock top 5 based on hearsay and conjecture:

1: Davis. 2: Robinson (after he measures out fullsized). 3/4: Going to be Drummond and Beal, not necessarily in that order (both those guys have crazy potential). 5: MKG to the Kangs!!!

I'm not sure Beal has much potential really. He's very skilled player with decent athleticism. Sure, you can never stop working on your game but I feel it will be more refining skills than major improvement.