Worst case scenario is Drummond.... Right ?

Yes, Drummond has a pretty rare combination of strength and athleticism, but a big reason why he was so hyped was because it was said that he had the makings a good face-up game (decent ball handling, jump shot, and some passing skills), and either Calhoun was hiding it, or it was greatly exaggerated, or his skills receded. The latter two explanations are huge red flags. Yeah, 6'10 260 players that can explode like him don't come around very often, but if he has no offensive game? I'll wait for the measurements to come out, but if he's basically Amare with some more bulk, but without the makings of the face-game or SG speed/blow-by ability of Amare, then does he really have that much raw talent to carry him?
He had free role offensively in HS and from time to time he made impressive plays which were shown in his highlights but his plays were unsuccessful very often. Thing is Cousins was the same as HS senior and then Calipari used him in very limited but effective way. Calhoun didn't bother to tailor Drummond's role because he never does and it's not clear what Calhoun's involvement in team actually was due to illness. Kings could actually use Drummond playing in a limited role that Calipari used Cousins in, not some offensive juggernaut. Drummond can pass, that's all what is needed from him initially.
 
He's a more athletic Milsap. And he's bigger. That looks pretty good to me.

Yes. Milsap is 6-7 in shoes and Robinson is probably 6-8. Still undersized for a PF. And Utah loved Milsap so much they went and got the athletic Favors for the long term projected starting PF.

Milsap is a bit thicker though and probably better on the low block and Robinson is probably a better perimeter shooter. Robinson would be a very good big man off the bench on a playoff roster. I think if you draft him, this is where he will shine. I think pairing him and Cousins would probably not be very good defensively. Though they would be very capable of scoring if one of the guards ever gave up the ball.
 
What I find interesting about this Drummond talk, is that so many arguments for him could have been easily made for Biyombo last year, and we had a later pick in what was perceived to be a worse draft. I understand Biyombo wasn't as exposed to us playing in the ACB rather than the NCAA and we still had the possibility of retaining Dalembert, but I find it interesting that so many were against him last year, despite him fitting the ideal prototype next to Cousins.
 
He had free role offensively in HS and from time to time he made impressive plays which were shown in his highlights but his plays were unsuccessful very often. Thing is Cousins was the same as HS senior and then Calipari used him in very limited but effective way. Calhoun didn't bother to tailor Drummond's role because he never does and it's not clear what Calhoun's involvement in team actually was due to illness. Kings could actually use Drummond playing in a limited role that Calipari used Cousins in, not some offensive juggernaut. Drummond can pass, that's all what is needed from him initially.

Sure, if you transferred exactly what he did at uconn to the NBA, he'd fit okay (although he was particularly crappy on the defensive boards,) but it doesn't work like that. I think I could be convinced to take Drummond the more I think about it, but I have yet to really see all that convincing of an argument. There's too many players like him that fail all the time, despite how much people say how simple their role would be. Things are never simple in the NBA with players that raw. Still, perhaps in this draft, at the 5th pick, his talent level may be a proper trade-off.
 
No I'm not. He's super athletic, has a great motor, rebounds the basketball. Who are you thinking of?

The compariosn is just bizarre. Robinson is often compared to a guy like Patrick Patterson (rich man's hopefully). He's a pure 4, maybe slightly undersized, with sggression and pretty good all around skills. He's a good athlete. He does have a motor. He's a good rebounder. That doesn't make for a comparison to Gerald Wallace, one of the elite SF athletes of our time. A whirling dervish of steals, blocks, boards, dunks and guard skills.
 
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The compariosn is just bizarre. Robinson is often compared to a guy like Patrick Patterson (rich man's hopefully). He's a pure 4, maybe slightly undersized, with sggression and pretty good all around skills. He's a good athlete. He does have a motor. He's a good rebounder. That doesn't make for a comparison to Gerald Wallace, one of the elite SF athletes of our time. A whirling dervish of steals, blocks, boards, dunks and guard skills.

He's no Patrick Patterson. He's far superior athletically to Patterson, who was drafted way down the ladder for a good reason. If you haven't seen Robinson play, fine, but don't go comparing him to the middle of the road athlete like Patterson. It's just ridiculous. And then you try to make my description ridiculous, which is ridiculous squared. I'm telling you this: I've seen Robinson change the course of a game without scoring, just getting loose balls, stealing balls, creating havoc, getting rebounds. That's a SUPERIOR athlete and I'll stand by it. He's not mentioned as a top 5 pick for nothing. Think about it; he's not a finished product; he's a project. And how come this project is going so high? - superior athletic ability. He's not going high because he's a great shooter. He's not going high because he has great length. He's going high because he's a great athlete. So get off your high horse. You know nothing about it.
 
What I find interesting about this Drummond talk, is that so many arguments for him could have been easily made for Biyombo last year, and we had a later pick in what was perceived to be a worse draft. I understand Biyombo wasn't as exposed to us playing in the ACB rather than the NCAA and we still had the possibility of retaining Dalembert, but I find it interesting that so many were against him last year, despite him fitting the ideal prototype next to Cousins.

Drummond has a much better track record. He's been on the NBA radar for a few years now. No one knew who Biyombo was until that Nike hoops summit game a few years ago, which makes him like those other foreign players that no one really knows how to project.

By the way .. I think Biyombo will be alright. I thought he at least proved to me that he can play in the NBA last season. He blocked almost 2 shots a game in limited playing time on a crap team. He needs a lot of work, but there is a player somewhere in there. Hell, I'd even trade for him if we weren't in the position to draft a player who just has to be at least as good.

To be clear, I think Drummond is the play here unless we make a deal or two. The top 5 right now is pretty clear. In whatever order you have it, It's Davis, MKG, Drummond, Beal, Robinson (that's my order) after that I think there is a slight drop off.
 
The compariosn is just bizarre. Robinson is often compared to a guy like Patrick Patterson (rich man's hopefully). He's a pure 4, maybe slightly undersized, with sggression and pretty good all around skills. He's a good athlete. He does have a motor. He's a good rebounder. That doesn't make for a comparison to Gerald Wallace, one of the elite SF athletes of our time. A whirling dervish of steals, blocks, boards, dunks and guard skills.

Actually that's not a bad comparison. Robinson has very good handle, quick, athletic, and likes to float on the perimeter. When I first saw him in some practice game, he was playing as a SF; and he looked like a SF due to his size.

Wallace, if you remember, played as a PF some years back and had a career year.

So if you just imagine if Wallace is a little beefier, taller and reverts back to his no-3pt shot days, but a better rebounder; he may look similar to Robinson.
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Drummond has a much better track record. He's been on the NBA radar for a few years now. No one knew who Biyombo was until that Nike hoops summit game a few years ago, which makes him like those other foreign players that no one really knows how to project.

By the way .. I think Biyombo will be alright. I thought he at least proved to me that he can play in the NBA last season. He blocked almost 2 shots a game in limited playing time on a crap team. He needs a lot of work, but there is a player somewhere in there. Hell, I'd even trade for him if we weren't in the position to draft a player who just has to be at least as good.

To be clear, I think Drummond is the play here unless we make a deal or two. The top 5 right now is pretty clear. In whatever order you have it, It's Davis, MKG, Drummond, Beal, Robinson (that's my order) after that I think there is a slight drop off.

He has a more exposed track record, sure, but better? Eh, I don't know about that. I think the ACB is better competition than the NCAA, and Biyombo had very good stats there, and the reports of his play there did seem to align with the impression we got at the NHS. It goes without saying he was risky, but we also had the 7th pick in a (at least perceived to be) weaker draft.

Drummond's track record isn't something to be touted though, we heard one thing coming out of HS about him, and we saw something completely different in college, that alone speaks to how poorly he was scouted in HS by the media and whatnot. The NBA can't scout HS players anymore, btw, so all they really have is the high school video they can get their hands on, and their college play.
 
I see Robinson and think he compares to a Paul Milsap kind of player. I don't deny the motor and attitude are great. But he's short and struggled against taller players in college. And the 6-10 measurement in shoes is highly suspect. I see a 6-8 player when I look at him. He may have been measured in shoes, but I doubt he could play in those same shoes if they have 2 inch heels. I don't know if he fits well next to Cousins as a PF. I think it does little to improve the defense in the paint.

First off, lets see how he measures out next week at the combine. I remember having these same discussions about Blake Griffin and how he wasn't really 6'10". I said it then, and I'll say it now. You can't tell on television how tall someone is. They can look like thier standing right next to each other on TV when actually there's a foot or two between them. Griffin was originally measured at the Nike summit games, and those measurements stood up. Robinson was measured that the LeBron James skills academy, and those have been pretty accurate. So next week, we'll see. Other than that, Robinson is a freak athlete, and Milsap isn't. At worse, I would say that Robinson is a taller more skilled offensively version of Kenneth Faried. At best, he's someone with the potential to be similar to a Karl Malone/Amare Stoudemire type.

Of course neither one of those guys is a shotblocker, so there's no way in hell we would want them on our team.
 
The compariosn is just bizarre. Robinson is often compared to a guy like Patrick Patterson (rich man's hopefully). He's a pure 4, maybe slightly undersized, with sggression and pretty good all around skills. He's a good athlete. He does have a motor. He's a good rebounder. That doesn't make for a comparison to Gerald Wallace, one of the elite SF athletes of our time. A whirling dervish of steals, blocks, boards, dunks and guard skills.

Ummmm! I'll tell you, Robinson is another of those freak athlete's. He's one of the quickest Big men I've seen in a while. By that, I mean he has guard quickness. Plus, Patterson ended up being a player that played a little too much on the perimeter to suit me, whereas, Robinson is a pure post player for the most part. He does however have a very nice 15 to 18 foot jumper. He just didn't use it very much. I will agree that some of his value will be determined by his measurements. If he proves to be 6'9" or above, his stock will rise. If he measures out at 6'8" or below, then he might slide. Either way, he's going to be a good player, just maybe not a good fit.

At least at Kansas, Robinson played his true position. Unfortunately Gerald was force to play center in college, and I think that retarded his growth.
 
First off, lets see how he measures out next week at the combine. I remember having these same discussions about Blake Griffin and how he wasn't really 6'10". I said it then, and I'll say it now. You can't tell on television how tall someone is. They can look like thier standing right next to each other on TV when actually there's a foot or two between them. Griffin was originally measured at the Nike summit games, and those measurements stood up. Robinson was measured that the LeBron James skills academy, and those have been pretty accurate. So next week, we'll see. Other than that, Robinson is a freak athlete, and Milsap isn't. At worse, I would say that Robinson is a taller more skilled offensively version of Kenneth Faried. At best, he's someone with the potential to be similar to a Karl Malone/Amare Stoudemire type.

Of course neither one of those guys is a shotblocker, so there's no way in hell we would want them on our team.

It's really Griffin's length that holds him back, not his height.
 
First off, lets see how he measures out next week at the combine. I remember having these same discussions about Blake Griffin and how he wasn't really 6'10". I said it then, and I'll say it now. You can't tell on television how tall someone is. They can look like thier standing right next to each other on TV when actually there's a foot or two between them. Griffin was originally measured at the Nike summit games, and those measurements stood up. Robinson was measured that the LeBron James skills academy, and those have been pretty accurate. So next week, we'll see. Other than that, Robinson is a freak athlete, and Milsap isn't. At worse, I would say that Robinson is a taller more skilled offensively version of Kenneth Faried. At best, he's someone with the potential to be similar to a Karl Malone/Amare Stoudemire type.

Of course neither one of those guys is a shotblocker, so there's no way in hell we would want them on our team.

I hope he does measure out at least 6-9 legit. I hate the shoe measurement because players exploit that with 1.5-2 inch shoe inserts that they don't play with. I just go with adding .75 over the socks measurement and it's a little closer to reality. If his wingspan is 7-1 and his standing reach are good, then there is no reason he can't also block shots. He's got the motor, jumping skills and athleticism to be a good defender in all aspects. Maybe it's just a thing where he wasn't coached on blocking shots. I love what I've seen from him. He's got that ability to be around the ball and can run the floor. But I have seen enough of his games where he's struggled against taller players and we all know that his college shot blocking numbers are awful for a guy that played 75% of each game. My eyes may be playing tricks on me, but we'll see soon. Although if he more like as advertised and closer to 6-10, no way he falls to #5.
 
First off, lets see how he measures out next week at the combine. I remember having these same discussions about Blake Griffin and how he wasn't really 6'10". I said it then, and I'll say it now. You can't tell on television how tall someone is. They can look like thier standing right next to each other on TV when actually there's a foot or two between them. Griffin was originally measured at the Nike summit games, and those measurements stood up. Robinson was measured that the LeBron James skills academy, and those have been pretty accurate. So next week, we'll see. Other than that, Robinson is a freak athlete, and Milsap isn't. At worse, I would say that Robinson is a taller more skilled offensively version of Kenneth Faried. At best, he's someone with the potential to be similar to a Karl Malone/Amare Stoudemire type.

Of course neither one of those guys is a shotblocker, so there's no way in hell we would want them on our team.

the draft is the one time a year where you can absolutely expect some of the strangest, most bizarre, over-the-top comparisons made between established/former nba talents and unproven prospects...

but i have to say that, outside of such comparison, lumping a legend like karl malone in with an overrated athlete like amare stoudemire does some kinda disservice to one of the greatest PF's in nba history...

that said, robinson does read a bit like amare stoudemire, with greater upside in the critical areas of post defense and rebounding...
 
I hope he does measure out at least 6-9 legit. I hate the shoe measurement because players exploit that with 1.5-2 inch shoe inserts that they don't play with. I just go with adding .75 over the socks measurement and it's a little closer to reality. If his wingspan is 7-1 and his standing reach are good, then there is no reason he can't also block shots. He's got the motor, jumping skills and athleticism to be a good defender in all aspects. Maybe it's just a thing where he wasn't coached on blocking shots. I love what I've seen from him. He's got that ability to be around the ball and can run the floor. But I have seen enough of his games where he's struggled against taller players and we all know that his college shot blocking numbers are awful for a guy that played 75% of each game. My eyes may be playing tricks on me, but we'll see soon. Although if he more like as advertised and closer to 6-10, no way he falls to #5.

Just because someone has good length and jumping ability does not make them a shot blocker. Shot blocking is about timing and something that is difficult to teach. The timing factor is something that players are born with. I am yet to see someone learn to be a great shot blocker. It never happens.

That is why these guys are rare. Its one thing that cannot be coached. Its also a reason why what Hassan Whiteside has is so rare and needs to be persisted with.
 
Since this thread is about Drummond, here's a scouting video put up by DX just yesterday. Goes through his strengths and weaknesses. TBH, at this point I'd probably take him if he's there at 5. So much upside and potential as a defensive anchor. Worries are obviously about his motor and feel for the game.

 
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I hope he does measure out at least 6-9 legit. I hate the shoe measurement because players exploit that with 1.5-2 inch shoe inserts that they don't play with. I just go with adding .75 over the socks measurement and it's a little closer to reality. If his wingspan is 7-1 and his standing reach are good, then there is no reason he can't also block shots. He's got the motor, jumping skills and athleticism to be a good defender in all aspects. Maybe it's just a thing where he wasn't coached on blocking shots. I love what I've seen from him. He's got that ability to be around the ball and can run the floor. But I have seen enough of his games where he's struggled against taller players and we all know that his college shot blocking numbers are awful for a guy that played 75% of each game. My eyes may be playing tricks on me, but we'll see soon. Although if he more like as advertised and closer to 6-10, no way he falls to #5.

I seriously doubt he'll be a shot blocker. That's one of those things that if you don't do it in college, it's very unlikely you'll do it in the NBA.
 
Since this thread is about Drummond, here's a scouting video put up by DX just yesterday. Goes through his strengths and weaknesses. TBH, at this point I'd probably take him if he's there at 5. So much upside and potential as a defensive anchor. Worries are obviously about his motor and feel for the game.


I personally would have to wait until after the workouts to feel comfortable with him. Thing is, this guys ceiling is incredibly high. We're talking All NBA defense. We're talking Ibaka/D12/Bynum type impact on defense. So the question becomes in my mind, what if he reaches 30% of his ceiling? 50%? 75%? Even if he doesn't reach his potential he could still be exactly what we need and a damn good defender, just not at an All-NBA level.

But does he have the intelligence and motor to reach even half way to his ceiling? The interviews will tell a lot. It's just so damn tempting even pre-workouts/interviews as the NBA is very short on defensive bigs, and with such a high ceiling even if he only gets half way there, he's still better than most, and better than most defensively still work well next to Cuz. Better than JT. A whole lot better than Hayes.
 
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I personally would have to wait until after the workouts to feel comfortable with him. Thing is, this guys ceiling is incredibly high. We're talking All NBA defense. We're talking Ibaka/D12/Bynum type impact on defense. So the question becomes in my mind, what if he reaches 30% of his ceiling? 50%? 75%? Even if he doesn't reach his potential he could still be exactly what we need and a damn good defender, just not at an All-NBA level.

But does he have the intelligence and motor to reach even half way to his ceiling? The interviews will tell a lot. It's just so damn tempting even pre-workouts/interviews as the NBA is very short on defensive bigs, and with such a high ceiling even if he only gets half way there, he's still better than most, and better than most defensively still work well next to Cuz. Better than JT. A whole lot better than Hayes.

If we truly want a shot blocker or at least someone to disrupt shots and Davis is off the board (of course) we are in the position of going for someone like Henson who may not have much of an upside given his slight build or Drummond who might be as good as Henson as a shot blocker. It would depend so much if he embraced the defensive role we would need from him. His upside is dependent on his mind set and little else. If he got inspired, he could be magnificent. Perhaps Cousins could be an inspiration. Perhaps being on a team where he is NOT the best big man would be inspiring. This would be a first for him and most males would see this as a challenge. The fact he has lost 20 pounds is a positive in a so far negative view of him.

The above assumes MKG is gone and the team doesn't want Robinson, Beal, or Barnes because they aren't ideal. I don't care to go into the argument about these three as the points have been made before.

Perhaps I have gone astray but the idea of Drummond at his worst, a big, athletic stud who's not terribly interested in offense but can rebound and has decent shot blocking skills doesn't sound so scary FOR US. We do not need him to be the team savior.
 
I believe it would be very hard to pass on Drummond. Of course he has weaknesses, he is still a work in progress, but his body and athleticism are amazing. Then, I believe he could be the perfect fit with this team. His abilities are what we are looking for: defense, shot blocking, rebounding (even if he needs to get better in rebounding). His weaknesses are what we don't need right now. We don't need him to shoot the ball. He should shoot 3 or 4 times per game, mostly on tap-ins and alley-oops. We already have DMC who will take care of the scoring from the post.
In U-Conn Drummond was the main target inside for the defenses, so they were collapsing on him when he got the ball. It would be different with the Kings and with DeMarcus. Those 2 guys together could be scary, DMC can be a PF on offense and a C on defense, Drummond a C on offense and a PF on defense.
Of course Drummond has to reach at least 50% of his ceiling and a big part of his future will be decided on the draft combine and workouts. But, like I said, if he is available at 5, it will be hard to pass on him.
 
I'm just not sold on Drummond at all. Is he really 6'10" by the way? I know, nitpicky, but to me if he was a 7'0" and shot 29% from the line I could be able to stomach it more. Also, this bears watching...he didn't get to the line well at all for someone without a jumper, making me wonder if he's averse to drawing fouls--many players who really brick free throws really start losing their overall games (Rasho Nesterovic, Andris Biedrins, to name a few). It's a psychological thing. Not saying that will happen to Drummond, as really, he reminds me a bit of DeAndre Jordan, down to the mediocre rebounding, lack of offensive fundamentals and shotblocking skills. I'm really thinking that's his upside, actually. I've actually had him at #33, 37 and 39 in my three mocks, and obviously that isn't the case and he's going lottery for sure given that he's an super athletic big and that's a guaranteed top 15 placement barring attitude issues. But he didn't impress that much in college, that's all.
 
Since Drummond is the topic, I went and dug this vid back up. Now his college work obviously >> his high school work in terms of importance. BUT...BUT...watch this:


The activity level, the ridiculous defense played up top, the multiple great passes -- the one at 1:37 is particularly eyebrow raising. And tell me this is the same guy. And that the guy doesn't have offensive skill. He's throwing no look behind the back passes. At one point he leads the break, pauses the dribble midstride, goes behind his back, and continues flying in for the layup. I mean...come on. That's something a certain other Kings big man might do. DeAndre Jordan couldn't do it if you locked him in a gym for the rest of his life.

Its enough to make you wonder, really wonder, if Drummond as a frosh was both a) 20lbs too heavy and b) being misused as a postup player. Ala what they did to Gerald Wallace back in the day, forcing an all court faceup guy into a limited role where he just wasn't comfortable yet. In that video of his high school work he looks like Kemp at times like Cwebb at others. It doesn't look at all like the sometimes sluggish giant at UConn. The guy in that video can defend the pick and roll, can pass, run the floor, dribble. If Drumond was closer to 260 in that vid, and is back in that range now, and in a better system...
 
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Since Drummond is the topic, I went and dug this vid back up. Now his college work obviously >> his high school work in terms of importance. BUT...BUT...watch this:


The activity level, the ridiculous defense played up top, the multiple great passes -- the one at 1:37 is particularly eyebrow raising. And tell me this is the same guy. And that the guy doesn't have offensive skill. He's throwing no look behind the back passes. At one point he leads the break, pauses the dribble midstride, goes behind his back, and continues flying in for the layup. I mean...come on. That's something a certain other Kings big man might do. DeAndre Jordan couldn't do it if you locked him in a gym for the rest of his life.

Its enough to make you wonder, really wonder, if Drummond as a frosh was both a) 20lbs too heavy and b) being misused as a postup player. Ala what they did to Gerald Wallace back in the day, forcing an all court faceup guy into a limited role where he just wasn't comfortable yet. In that video of his high school work he looks like Kemp at times like Cwebb at others. It doesn't look at all like the sometimes sluggish giant at UConn. The guy in that video can defend the pick and roll, can pass, run the floor, dribble. If Drumond was closer to 260 in that vid, and is back in that range now, and in a better system...

I saw Drummond pull out some fancy offensive moves away from the basket a few times. Very rare when it came out but there could be something there.
 
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Since Drummond is the topic, I went and dug this vid back up. Now his college work obviously >> his high school work in terms of importance. BUT...BUT...watch this:


The activity level, the ridiculous defense played up top, the multiple great passes -- the one at 1:37 is particularly eyebrow raising. And tell me this is the same guy. And that the guy doesn't have offensive skill. He's throwing no look behind the back passes. At one point he leads the break, pauses the dribble midstride, goes behind his back, and continues flying in for the layup. I mean...come on. That's something a certain other Kings big man might do. DeAndre Jordan couldn't do it if you locked him in a gym for the rest of his life.

Its enough to make you wonder, really wonder, if Drummond as a frosh was both a) 20lbs too heavy and b) being misused as a postup player. Ala what they did to Gerald Wallace back in the day, forcing an all court faceup guy into a limited role where he just wasn't comfortable yet. In that video of his high school work he looks like Kemp at times like Cwebb at others. It doesn't look at all like the sometimes sluggish giant at UConn. The guy in that video can defend the pick and roll, can pass, run the floor, dribble. If Drumond was closer to 260 in that vid, and is back in that range now, and in a better system...

I would prefer a ready to go veteran but since that would take money that we are not willing to pay, I would be happy with Drummond, especially considering that we now have Clifford Ray as our big men coach who appears to have done wonders with JT, Cousins and even Whiteside.

That is if there is a direct correlation between form spike from Cousins and JT and improvement from Whiteside with the arrival of Clifford Ray.

We don't need this kid to be an offensive star. We need him to be a defensive monster and competent enough offensively not to be a liability. Mind you that 29.5% from free throws is a worry. A real worry.
 
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I was just checking out his draftexpress profile and noticed that free throw number. Wow, his jump shot is absolutely horrible as well, it's like a two handed push, worse than Noah's.
 
I was just checking out his draftexpress profile and noticed that free throw number. Wow, his jump shot is absolutely horrible as well, it's like a two handed push, worse than Noah's.

Fortunate then that the very last thing we need out of this pick and that position is scoring. ;)
 
Since this thread is about Drummond, here's a scouting video put up by DX just yesterday. Goes through his strengths and weaknesses. TBH, at this point I'd probably take him if he's there at 5. So much upside and potential as a defensive anchor. Worries are obviously about his motor and feel for the game.


Ouch! 29.5% from the fre throw line...Scary.
 
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I disagree. The last time this team was winning was with Cousins at PF. I think cousins has tremendous potential to post up. He also has a great midrange jump shot when he uses it. If we put him with a big center that can block, I think this team can go places.
 
Fortunate then that the very last thing we need out of this pick and that position is scoring. ;)

Yep, as i said in an earlier post he would be under no pressure at all on offense so it's largely irrelevant.

But the free throw thing isn't pretty.
 
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