rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Why don't we just draft him and trade him to Minnesota for Rubio? Then we'd have a real PG.
I love pg's that can't shoot and allow the defense to sag off onto others. Sign me up!
Why don't we just draft him and trade him to Minnesota for Rubio? Then we'd have a real PG.
I love pg's that can't shoot and allow the defense to sag off onto others. Sign me up!
Why, praytell, do you think Jimmer is incapable of distributing the ball. He can pass the ball just as well as Kemba can, and you don't seem to have problem with painting Kemba into the picture. Any minutes you think Kemba can get, Jimmer can get. Just because you want to believe that Fredette is nothing but a short shooting guard, doesn't make it so. Just so you know, a lot of the scouts think Kemba is more of shoot first PG than Jimmer is. Frankly, I think both guys can become good PG's in the NBA.
The Kings are probably going to draft Leonard anyway, sot it won't matter.
Why, praytell, do you think Jimmer is incapable of distributing the ball. He can pass the ball just as well as Kemba can, and you don't seem to have problem with painting Kemba into the picture. Any minutes you think Kemba can get, Jimmer can get. Just because you want to believe that Fredette is nothing but a short shooting guard, doesn't make it so. Just so you know, a lot of the scouts think Kemba is more of shoot first PG than Jimmer is. Frankly, I think both guys can become good PG's in the NBA.
The Kings are probably going to draft Leonard anyway, sot it won't matter.
Of course!
On a side note, isn't anyone tired of the Jimmer argument?
Doesn't seem to hinder Rondo!
Jus' saying...
That's why we need to TRADE UP!D. Williams has a sweeeeet outside shot.
You mentioned before that part of your analysis was who you thought the Kings were likely to take, and Jimmer looked to be the guy. I really wonder about that. Smoke screen, anyone? Seems like all the back-patting of Jimmer is a little overdone. Jimmer doesn't feel right to me. There has been talk, inferences, and implications, by Reynolds and others that the Kings need quickness in the backcourt. Did you ever get any inkling that they thought they needed to go after another shooter for their backcourt? Did you hear the glimmer of a thought pertaining to that during last season? I sure didn't. Heard a heckuvalot about the 3 positon, but nothing about going out and getting that extra shooter in the backcourt? - NO. Thornton solved that issue. So why all of this Jimmer crush?
If we're shopping Beno than GP has to be leaning towards a guard in the draft. Unless of course we get a guard back in any Beno trade (rumors have it that we may be going after Andre Miller).
Anyways, I'd be happy with either Fredette or Leonard. Cautiously optimistic about anyone else.
Links to those rumors, other than fantasies of KF members?
You can argue that Leonard is more of a sure thing, but I think Vesely has more potential. And they could both bust, so I think the risk may be worth it.
Thats just the SF's though. My wishlist still has Kanter on top. I'd be perfectly fine with Valaciunas, Vesely, or Knight. And slightly dissapointed but satisfied with Kemba, Jimmer, or Leonard. I will say this, I think I take Leonard before I take Kemba or Jimmer. I just really like some of these second round guards.
I don't think Leonard is in any way a sure thing. Aspirationally, people hope he can become a good defender; however, his steal and block numbers are pretty pedestrian compared to what most good NBA defenders put up in college. And he didn't go up against a single SG/SF/PF prospect who is slated to be drafted this year. So really people are hoping he's a good defender based off of his measurements and decent athleticism.
His offense is atrocious. His three point percentage, two point percentage, and FTA/FGA are all bad compared to a cross section of NBA SFs I looked at (in terms of their college stats). His assist/FGA is low as well.
Scoring in general is an issue for him as Draftexpress writes, “according to Synergy Sports Technology, no single offensive situation accounted for more than 17% of his touches, with Spot-Ups, Isolations, Put Backs, Fast Breaks, Cuts, and Pick and Roll situations each accounting for anywhere between 8-18% of his total possessions. Leonard ranks right around the 45th percentile amongst all NCAA players in each of those metrics in terms of Points Per-Possession.” So he does not have a single scoring dimension he excels at even at the NCAA level.
He is a very good rebounder. Potentially elite rebounder if he can play SF in the NBA, but that's about it.
I will trust Petrie if he takes him, but I really am not seeing a lot to like and really struggle to see how he fits in with our team.
I'm waiting till we see what kind of players fall to us at 7.... optimistic about jimmer. a chance knight to fall to us is a possibility.. vesely yes.. a really good day for me is for kanter to drop... if he does we need to unload JT package him for another first rounder.
My gripe with leonard is despite his freaky hands, there is no promise of him being a good shooter in the future. and we can't wait for a shooter to develop, were going to be dead last in the league again this year if that happens.
casspi and greene even garcia is erratic at three pointers. beno is an excellent midrange pull up guy.
we don't need help nor an upgrade in rebounding, we already have cousins jt and other bigs for that. defensively reke and others aren't that bad. this is exciting can't wait till next friday!
I don't think Leonard is in any way a sure thing. Aspirationally, people hope he can become a good defender; however, his steal and block numbers are pretty pedestrian compared to what most good NBA defenders put up in college. And he didn't go up against a single SG/SF/PF prospect who is slated to be drafted this year. So really people are hoping he's a good defender based off of his measurements and decent athleticism.
His offense is atrocious. His three point percentage, two point percentage, and FTA/FGA are all bad compared to a cross section of NBA SFs I looked at (in terms of their college stats). His assist/FGA is low as well.
Scoring in general is an issue for him as Draftexpress writes, “according to Synergy Sports Technology, no single offensive situation accounted for more than 17% of his touches, with Spot-Ups, Isolations, Put Backs, Fast Breaks, Cuts, and Pick and Roll situations each accounting for anywhere between 8-18% of his total possessions. Leonard ranks right around the 45th percentile amongst all NCAA players in each of those metrics in terms of Points Per-Possession.” So he does not have a single scoring dimension he excels at even at the NCAA level.
He is a very good rebounder. Potentially elite rebounder if he can play SF in the NBA, but that's about it.
I will trust Petrie if he takes him, but I really am not seeing a lot to like and really struggle to see how he fits in with our team.
Why the Walker crush? It works both ways my friend. What you don't get about me, is that I posting who I think the Kings will take, and not just who I like the best. For a while I thought it might be Leonard, and now I think it might be again. I've admited being biased about Jimmer. After watching someone play close to 50 times over the last two years you start to get attached to him.
All I'm trying to do right now is figure out who the Kings might draft and be as objective about it as possible. And in the end, I could be dead wrong, because your right, there are a lot of smokescreens at this time of the year. But if you have as much time as I do, you can sit and absorb a lot of worthless information.
Listened to a podcast with Jonathan Givony of Draftexpress earlier today. Two interesting things that he said. One that one or two big trades were going to take place at the beginning of next week that would involve the exchange of some big salaries, and that would dramaticly change how the draft would go. He also stated that the Kings have been shopping Beno. So take that for what its worth. He didn't mention which teams would be involved in the trade or trades.
When asked about the Kings choice, he said he thought it would come down to three players. Similar but slightly different than my three. His are Fredette, Leonard, and Walker. So there, your boy is still in the running. Thats if the Kings remain at the 7th spot.
A lot of folks are high on Alec Burks, but the fact is, Burks shot the ball from the three at the same percentage Leonard did. So you could argue that whatever ails Leonard, also ails Burks. But there is something that sets Leonard, Fredette, and Walker apart from Burks. All three were, like Burks, the stars of their respective teams. All four players were surrounded by less than average teammates overall. Thats especially true of Fredette and Walker. But Leonard, Walker, and Fredette willed their teams to victory, and Burks didn't. Burks put up good numbers. He has a lot of talent. But he couldn't do what Fredette or Walker, and to some extent, Leonard, whose team was a little more talented, did!
Call me old school, but I think that counts for something.
2) Udrih is the best distributor of the three but has been asked to defer to Evans half or more of the time, so we have not tested him as the main playmaker full-time. Part of the slack in team ball distribution has been well covered by Cousins and this is quite good when it is good and quite awful when it is awful which is far too much of the time. We have a need for significant improvement in ball handling/distribution. Cousins will get there but not next season, and when he does, improvement in distribution at the guards positions will still be necessary. To progress I say get a better distributor now.
I cant understand why so many people are so quick to unload Beno. He is so underrated by some Kings Fans.
In my opinion, unloading Beno just so you can draft Jimmer or Kemba is stupid. Why not just keep Beno and add a player at a different position who can help? Beno's biggest, and actually only real problem is his defense. Well, now that he is coming in off the bench that is hardly as important as it was a few years ago. I said this in another thread, but look around the league .. How many backup point guards are better then him? I think I came up with around 4. He is a weapon, and a solid steady veteran on a team that lacks veteran leadership. I think trading Beno, and replacing his spot on the roster with Jimmer not only hurts you on the court for at least a year or so, but it also hurts you off the court (not that Jimmer is a bad guy.. but adding another young player for one of your only vets isnt a great move).
He has proven to be a very good piece for our team. He is hands down one of our most consistent players, and has the ability to play off the ball with Evans, Thornton, or both. And I'm willing to bet he means more to this team then any other team, so the return for a Beno trade wont be great.
I'm not saying he is untouchable, but I'm absolutely against just dumping his contract, and If we are trading him for the sake of Kemba Walker or Jimmer Fredettes playtime .. I couldnt be more against that.
Baja, how did the matchups go between Leonard and Fredette in three games they faced each other last season? I caught some of second of the three contests but don't recall a lot of individual details - except for Jimmer going off big in both conference games. Obviously, Kawhi and Jimmer were not necessarily on each other all that much - or I don't think so. I heard that after BYU had won first two games (home and then in San Diego) that at conference title game won by SDSU in Las Vegas Leonard was on Jimmer like glue in that last one and it paid off with the Aztecs victory.
I cant understand why so many people are so quick to unload Beno. He is so underrated by some Kings Fans.
In my opinion, unloading Beno just so you can draft Jimmer or Kemba is stupid. Why not just keep Beno and add a player at a different position who can help? Beno's biggest, and actually only real problem is his defense. Well, now that he is coming in off the bench that is hardly as important as it was a few years ago. I said this in another thread, but look around the league .. How many backup point guards are better then him? I think I came up with around 4. He is a weapon, and a solid steady veteran on a team that lacks veteran leadership. I think trading Beno, and replacing his spot on the roster with Jimmer not only hurts you on the court for at least a year or so, but it also hurts you off the court (not that Jimmer is a bad guy.. but adding another young player for one of your only vets isnt a great move).
He has proven to be a very good piece for our team. He is hands down one of our most consistent players, and has the ability to play off the ball with Evans, Thornton, or both. And I'm willing to bet he means more to this team then any other team, so the return for a Beno trade wont be great.
I'm not saying he is untouchable, but I'm absolutely against just dumping his contract, and If we are trading him for the sake of Kemba Walker or Jimmer Fredettes playtime .. I couldnt be more against that.
I have to disagree with you here. Beno had two full years as the lead guard before we drafted Evans, one of which was pretty good and one of which was mediocre, so he has been tested as the full-time playmaker already. If the front office was confident in him as the point guard they wouldn't have forced Tyreke into that role as a rookie.
Furthermore, Tyreke actually did a pretty good job as the PG in his rookie season, especially considering that he only spent one year in college and only played half his games there at PG. Compare his numbers to other star PGs in their rookie season -- Rose, Westbrook, Paul, Williams, Rondo. Only Paul stands out as a better PG. He had a setback last season, but it's still too early to rush in his replacement I think.
Tyreke has become the scapegoat for our offensive inefficiency, but the problems don't all rest on his shoulders. If he improves his shot enough to keep the defense guessing and he has better shooters around him there's going to be a lot more space for him to get to the basket again like he did in his rookie season. Actually, he played off the ball more this season and he was mostly terrible in that role (as he was at Memphis) so it makes even less sense to bring in a playmaker. If he is going to slide to SG, we have to pair him with a shooter who can play off the ball.
I take that you aren't concerned about distribution on offense with starting guards of Evans and Thornton. If you are not, please reassure me. Thanks.