With the 7th pick in the 2011 NBA Draft, the Sacramento Kings select .....

Why, praytell, do you think Jimmer is incapable of distributing the ball. He can pass the ball just as well as Kemba can, and you don't seem to have problem with painting Kemba into the picture. Any minutes you think Kemba can get, Jimmer can get. Just because you want to believe that Fredette is nothing but a short shooting guard, doesn't make it so. Just so you know, a lot of the scouts think Kemba is more of shoot first PG than Jimmer is. Frankly, I think both guys can become good PG's in the NBA.

The Kings are probably going to draft Leonard anyway, sot it won't matter.
I know, and maybe deja vu of sorts from recent Kings drafts. Kings fans (most of them) wanted Rubio and when Evans was selected it surprised many who just rolled their eyes. Last year, the countdown led to #5 with Cousins sitting there for plucking as Kings big draft party at Arco exploded into loud cheers at his selection. Now, maybe on draft day 2011 we might witness another situation as Kings pass on seeming Kings favorite Fredette by taking Leonard at #7 to loud boos at the many Kings draft parties being organized by the organization all over local area.
 
Why, praytell, do you think Jimmer is incapable of distributing the ball. He can pass the ball just as well as Kemba can, and you don't seem to have problem with painting Kemba into the picture. Any minutes you think Kemba can get, Jimmer can get. Just because you want to believe that Fredette is nothing but a short shooting guard, doesn't make it so. Just so you know, a lot of the scouts think Kemba is more of shoot first PG than Jimmer is. Frankly, I think both guys can become good PG's in the NBA.

The Kings are probably going to draft Leonard anyway, sot it won't matter.
At the end of the day, it all goes down to whether the FO is going to make any trades or not. If there are no trades, then we probably stick with drafting a guard or big and signing a SF, since we already have Donte and Omri. Simply drafting Kawhi Leonard is not going to patch our SF hole
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
That's why we need to TRADE UP! :D D. Williams has a sweeeeet outside shot.

You mentioned before that part of your analysis was who you thought the Kings were likely to take, and Jimmer looked to be the guy. I really wonder about that. Smoke screen, anyone? Seems like all the back-patting of Jimmer is a little overdone. Jimmer doesn't feel right to me. There has been talk, inferences, and implications, by Reynolds and others that the Kings need quickness in the backcourt. Did you ever get any inkling that they thought they needed to go after another shooter for their backcourt? Did you hear the glimmer of a thought pertaining to that during last season? I sure didn't. Heard a heckuvalot about the 3 positon, but nothing about going out and getting that extra shooter in the backcourt? - NO. Thornton solved that issue. So why all of this Jimmer crush?
Why the Walker crush? It works both ways my friend. What you don't get about me, is that I posting who I think the Kings will take, and not just who I like the best. For a while I thought it might be Leonard, and now I think it might be again. I've admited being biased about Jimmer. After watching someone play close to 50 times over the last two years you start to get attached to him.

All I'm trying to do right now is figure out who the Kings might draft and be as objective about it as possible. And in the end, I could be dead wrong, because your right, there are a lot of smokescreens at this time of the year. But if you have as much time as I do, you can sit and absorb a lot of worthless information.

Listened to a podcast with Jonathan Givony of Draftexpress earlier today. Two interesting things that he said. One that one or two big trades were going to take place at the beginning of next week that would involve the exchange of some big salaries, and that would dramaticly change how the draft would go. He also stated that the Kings have been shopping Beno. So take that for what its worth. He didn't mention which teams would be involved in the trade or trades.

When asked about the Kings choice, he said he thought it would come down to three players. Similar but slightly different than my three. His are Fredette, Leonard, and Walker. So there, your boy is still in the running. Thats if the Kings remain at the 7th spot.
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
If we're shopping Beno than GP has to be leaning towards a guard in the draft. Unless of course we get a guard back in any Beno trade (rumors have it that we may be going after Andre Miller).

Anyways, I'd be happy with either Fredette or Leonard. Cautiously optimistic about anyone else.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
If we're shopping Beno than GP has to be leaning towards a guard in the draft. Unless of course we get a guard back in any Beno trade (rumors have it that we may be going after Andre Miller).

Anyways, I'd be happy with either Fredette or Leonard. Cautiously optimistic about anyone else.
Links to those rumors, other than fantasies of KF members?
 
With Alec Burks and Klay Thompson coming in for a workout, do you guys think that either one could be an effective starting backcourt mate with Tyreke? I was thinking that having the height and length of Evans and Burks (for instance) could create match up problems for other teams. Yet I'm not sure this type of backcourt could work against speedy and/or athletic point guards.

Could someone like Burks be a credible playmaker in the NBA (a Doug Christie type)?
 
Well, it looks like the SF race only involves two men right now, Vesely and Leonard. Not sure if we are bringing in Hamilton or Singleton in the next few days, but it doesnt look like it right now.

And I'm actually leaning towards Vesely. Hard to really defend that when I have only seen him play one time (The Serbian League Final) where he looked good, but I think his upside is worth the chance. Obviously Geoff and CO. are going to be in a much better position to make that call because they have seen him workout, but there is a lot to like about him.

I like Leonard also, but I have some questions about his ability to play the 3 ( granted Vesely has some of those same questions ) I also dont know about his jumper. Of course I have read that it has improved, but when you look at his gigantic hands .. its hard to shoot with mits like that. Just ask Rajon Rondo. Vesely needs to work on his jumper too, but from what little I have seen, I think its in a better spot than Leonards right now.

I already wrote how I dont think this team NEEDS whoever they draft to come in and play right away, so I wont mention that again, but I will say that I have no problem letting Vesely progress as fast or as slow as it takes. We dont need him this year. Go out and bring in a veteran SF, let Omri and Donte duke it out one more time for some bench minutes, and let Vesely watch and learn.

You can argue that Leonard is more of a sure thing, but I think Vesely has more potential. And they could both bust, so I think the risk may be worth it.

Thats just the SF's though. My wishlist still has Kanter on top. I'd be perfectly fine with Valaciunas, Vesely, or Knight. And slightly dissapointed but satisfied with Kemba, Jimmer, or Leonard. I will say this, I think I take Leonard before I take Kemba or Jimmer. I just really like some of these second round guards.
 
You can argue that Leonard is more of a sure thing, but I think Vesely has more potential. And they could both bust, so I think the risk may be worth it.

Thats just the SF's though. My wishlist still has Kanter on top. I'd be perfectly fine with Valaciunas, Vesely, or Knight. And slightly dissapointed but satisfied with Kemba, Jimmer, or Leonard. I will say this, I think I take Leonard before I take Kemba or Jimmer. I just really like some of these second round guards.
I don't think Leonard is in any way a sure thing. Aspirationally, people hope he can become a good defender; however, his steal and block numbers are pretty pedestrian compared to what most good NBA defenders put up in college. And he didn't go up against a single SG/SF/PF prospect who is slated to be drafted this year. So really people are hoping he's a good defender based off of his measurements and decent athleticism.

His offense is atrocious. His three point percentage, two point percentage, and FTA/FGA are all bad compared to a cross section of NBA SFs I looked at (in terms of their college stats). His assist/FGA is low as well.

Scoring in general is an issue for him as Draftexpress writes, “according to Synergy Sports Technology, no single offensive situation accounted for more than 17% of his touches, with Spot-Ups, Isolations, Put Backs, Fast Breaks, Cuts, and Pick and Roll situations each accounting for anywhere between 8-18% of his total possessions. Leonard ranks right around the 45th percentile amongst all NCAA players in each of those metrics in terms of Points Per-Possession.” So he does not have a single scoring dimension he excels at even at the NCAA level.

He is a very good rebounder. Potentially elite rebounder if he can play SF in the NBA, but that's about it.

I will trust Petrie if he takes him, but I really am not seeing a lot to like and really struggle to see how he fits in with our team.
 
I'm waiting till we see what kind of players fall to us at 7.... optimistic about jimmer. a chance knight to fall to us is a possibility.. vesely yes.. a really good day for me is for kanter to drop... if he does we need to unload JT package him for another first rounder.

My gripe with leonard is despite his freaky hands, there is no promise of him being a good shooter in the future. and we can't wait for a shooter to develop, were going to be dead last in the league again this year if that happens.

casspi and greene even garcia is erratic at three pointers. beno is an excellent midrange pull up guy.

we don't need help nor an upgrade in rebounding, we already have cousins jt and other bigs for that. defensively reke and others aren't that bad. this is exciting can't wait till next friday!
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I don't think Leonard is in any way a sure thing. Aspirationally, people hope he can become a good defender; however, his steal and block numbers are pretty pedestrian compared to what most good NBA defenders put up in college. And he didn't go up against a single SG/SF/PF prospect who is slated to be drafted this year. So really people are hoping he's a good defender based off of his measurements and decent athleticism.

His offense is atrocious. His three point percentage, two point percentage, and FTA/FGA are all bad compared to a cross section of NBA SFs I looked at (in terms of their college stats). His assist/FGA is low as well.

Scoring in general is an issue for him as Draftexpress writes, “according to Synergy Sports Technology, no single offensive situation accounted for more than 17% of his touches, with Spot-Ups, Isolations, Put Backs, Fast Breaks, Cuts, and Pick and Roll situations each accounting for anywhere between 8-18% of his total possessions. Leonard ranks right around the 45th percentile amongst all NCAA players in each of those metrics in terms of Points Per-Possession.” So he does not have a single scoring dimension he excels at even at the NCAA level.

He is a very good rebounder. Potentially elite rebounder if he can play SF in the NBA, but that's about it.

I will trust Petrie if he takes him, but I really am not seeing a lot to like and really struggle to see how he fits in with our team.
Right about some things and wrong about some things. Your right about his outside shooting. No doubt about it. But Leonard does have a good mid-range game. He has a good little turn around jumper in the key. He was in college and I have no doubts that he'll be in the NBA a very good defender. You can't just judge a players defense by how many steals he had, or how many blocked shots he had. Sometimes they matter, and sometimes they don't. And if you haven't seen him play, you won't know the difference.

Fredette was an acknowledged poor defender at BYU. But he averaged 1.5 steals a season. If thats all you looked at without seeing him play, you might think he was a pretty good defender. Having watched Leonard play, the one thing I don't question is his ability to defend. Offensively, its another matter. The stats from synergy sports validates it. He was a jack of all trades offensively and a master of none. Basicly, he just took what was there. So he scored on putbacks, or anything he could create within 10 feet of the basket.

A lot of folks are high on Alec Burks, but the fact is, Burks shot the ball from the three at the same percentage Leonard did. So you could argue that whatever ails Leonard, also ails Burks. But there is something that sets Leonard, Fredette, and Walker apart from Burks. All three were, like Burks, the stars of their respective teams. All four players were surrounded by less than average teammates overall. Thats especially true of Fredette and Walker. But Leonard, Walker, and Fredette willed their teams to victory, and Burks didn't. Burks put up good numbers. He has a lot of talent. But he couldn't do what Fredette or Walker, and to some extent, Leonard, whose team was a little more talented, did!

Call me old school, but I think that counts for something.
 
Baja, how did the matchups go between Leonard and Fredette in three games they faced each other last season? I caught some of second of the three contests but don't recall a lot of individual details - except for Jimmer going off big in both conference games. Obviously, Kawhi and Jimmer were not necessarily on each other all that much - or I don't think so. I heard that after BYU had won first two games (home and then in San Diego) that at conference title game won by SDSU in Las Vegas Leonard was on Jimmer like glue in that last one and it paid off with the Aztecs victory.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I'm waiting till we see what kind of players fall to us at 7.... optimistic about jimmer. a chance knight to fall to us is a possibility.. vesely yes.. a really good day for me is for kanter to drop... if he does we need to unload JT package him for another first rounder.

My gripe with leonard is despite his freaky hands, there is no promise of him being a good shooter in the future. and we can't wait for a shooter to develop, were going to be dead last in the league again this year if that happens.

casspi and greene even garcia is erratic at three pointers. beno is an excellent midrange pull up guy.

we don't need help nor an upgrade in rebounding, we already have cousins jt and other bigs for that. defensively reke and others aren't that bad. this is exciting can't wait till next friday!
Don't get the desire to unload JT? Why? The Kings had a nice three man rotation going at the end of the season with Dalembert, Cousins, and JT. So why screw up something that was working? Even if we were to draft Kanter, which is a real longshot, I don't think that means he'll be ready to step right into being a prime rotation player. Remember, he hasn't played in a real game for almost two years.

The other question related to Kanter, is, what is he? A center, or a PF? From what I've seen, I lean more toward center, with the ability to play some PF. Even if we resign Dalembert and draft Kanter, that would leave us with only one true PF on the roster, and thats JT.

Having said all that, I'm not saying that JT is untouchable. But he certainly has more value than just another first round pick.
 
I don't think Leonard is in any way a sure thing. Aspirationally, people hope he can become a good defender; however, his steal and block numbers are pretty pedestrian compared to what most good NBA defenders put up in college. And he didn't go up against a single SG/SF/PF prospect who is slated to be drafted this year. So really people are hoping he's a good defender based off of his measurements and decent athleticism.

His offense is atrocious. His three point percentage, two point percentage, and FTA/FGA are all bad compared to a cross section of NBA SFs I looked at (in terms of their college stats). His assist/FGA is low as well.

Scoring in general is an issue for him as Draftexpress writes, “according to Synergy Sports Technology, no single offensive situation accounted for more than 17% of his touches, with Spot-Ups, Isolations, Put Backs, Fast Breaks, Cuts, and Pick and Roll situations each accounting for anywhere between 8-18% of his total possessions. Leonard ranks right around the 45th percentile amongst all NCAA players in each of those metrics in terms of Points Per-Possession.” So he does not have a single scoring dimension he excels at even at the NCAA level.

He is a very good rebounder. Potentially elite rebounder if he can play SF in the NBA, but that's about it.

I will trust Petrie if he takes him, but I really am not seeing a lot to like and really struggle to see how he fits in with our team.
The problem is there are just as many question marks about any other prospect. Burks is a SG who can't shoot. Kemba is very small. Jimmer is going to get torched on defense. Bayombo might have zero offensive ability whatsoever. Vesely is a ghastly FT shooter. Singleton has incredibly poor offensive skill for a wing.

Even Knight, who is the dream scenario, is a really raw guard prospect. He has very nice tools and is a smart kid, but he had huge struggles at times running the offense. They had to change the whole offense to run it entirely off of ball screens to free him up for jumpers and run the offense that way.

You can blow a hole in any prospect at the 7 spot. Its a horrible draft.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Why the Walker crush? It works both ways my friend. What you don't get about me, is that I posting who I think the Kings will take, and not just who I like the best. For a while I thought it might be Leonard, and now I think it might be again. I've admited being biased about Jimmer. After watching someone play close to 50 times over the last two years you start to get attached to him.

All I'm trying to do right now is figure out who the Kings might draft and be as objective about it as possible. And in the end, I could be dead wrong, because your right, there are a lot of smokescreens at this time of the year. But if you have as much time as I do, you can sit and absorb a lot of worthless information.

Listened to a podcast with Jonathan Givony of Draftexpress earlier today. Two interesting things that he said. One that one or two big trades were going to take place at the beginning of next week that would involve the exchange of some big salaries, and that would dramaticly change how the draft would go. He also stated that the Kings have been shopping Beno. So take that for what its worth. He didn't mention which teams would be involved in the trade or trades.

When asked about the Kings choice, he said he thought it would come down to three players. Similar but slightly different than my three. His are Fredette, Leonard, and Walker. So there, your boy is still in the running. Thats if the Kings remain at the 7th spot.
Very interesting. If the Kings do trade Beno, I can see them taking Jimmer. Or, maybe I should say, if the Kings are left with Jimmer, they'll have a trade in the works with Beno. It makes a lot of sense that there will be some big trades because the players available just don't match up with the needs of the teams.

I think I'm biased in favor of Walker because I'm so done with point guards that can't defend. Done with Bibby, done with Beno, done with any pg that can't come close to guarding the elite quick-on-quick pgs in the league. Tyreke can definitely be an elite defender, but he's going to get worn out if he's the only one that is left guarding the quicker smaller guards. Jimmer may not be as bad as some may think on defense, but I think it's highly unlikely he's ever going to be good. At best, he'll be mediocre. With Cousins not ever being an elite help defender, that's not a good combination in my view.
 
An analysis.
The Evans/Udrih/Thornton is a pretty potentially potent threesome to run the Kings offense from the guards position. Concerns at the guards positions are:
1) Thornton's lack of time in grade as a scorer and as a partner to both Udrih and Evans;
2) Udrih is the best distributor of the three but has been asked to defer to Evans half or more of the time, so we have not tested him as the main playmaker full-time. Part of the slack in team ball distribution has been well covered by Cousins and this is quite good when it is good and quite awful when it is awful which is far too much of the time. We have a need for significant improvement in ball handling/distribution. Cousins will get there but not next season, and when he does, improvement in distribution at the guards positions will still be necessary. To progress I say get a better distributor now.

We can try to get a distributor in the draft or by acquiring an established veteran. Petrie has to decide which way to go in the next week. A draftee solution is slower developing because the Evans persona is more likely to overwhelm the new guy and his effectiveness. This would be less of a factor if a "name" veteran were brought in. Tough choices but the price of success is always high.

One big assumption here is that Kings basketball management sees the same picture I do. My guess is that they see it better. I'm looking forward to their first decisions this week.
 

Capt. Factorial

ceterum censeo delendum esse Argentum
Staff member
A lot of folks are high on Alec Burks, but the fact is, Burks shot the ball from the three at the same percentage Leonard did. So you could argue that whatever ails Leonard, also ails Burks. But there is something that sets Leonard, Fredette, and Walker apart from Burks. All three were, like Burks, the stars of their respective teams. All four players were surrounded by less than average teammates overall. Thats especially true of Fredette and Walker. But Leonard, Walker, and Fredette willed their teams to victory, and Burks didn't. Burks put up good numbers. He has a lot of talent. But he couldn't do what Fredette or Walker, and to some extent, Leonard, whose team was a little more talented, did!

Call me old school, but I think that counts for something.
I'm with you on Burks. I haven't really seen anything particularly special from him. Maybe I've watched the wrong games. I remember tuning in to a Colorado game midseason to watch Burks, and spending about 5 minutes unsuccessfully trying to figure out which one he was. I finally came to the conclusion that he must have been on the bench for a stint when he finally did something notable enough to have the announcers call out his name - sure enough he had been on the floor not affecting the game the whole time. I also recently watched David Locke's (the Jazz announcer) video workup on Burks, where he incessantly praised Burks for being able to get to the basket anytime he wanted - while the video kept showing Burks failing to get around his man and throwing up sloppy stuff from 5-10 feet. OK, he made a nice move or two on the baseline but he can't shoot, I'm not convinced of his ability to drive in college (much less the NBA) and he doesn't appear to have the drive to be a game-changer when he's out there. Again, maybe I saw the wrong games but I'm not terribly impressed.

I do think it's notable that Walker, Fredette, and Leonard were the linchpins on teams ranked in the top-5 sometime during the season, while Colorado didn't get past the bubble under the leadership of Burks. I think there are better options for the Kings.
 
I cant understand why so many people are so quick to unload Beno. He is so underrated by some Kings Fans.

In my opinion, unloading Beno just so you can draft Jimmer or Kemba is stupid. Why not just keep Beno and add a player at a different position who can help? Beno's biggest, and actually only real problem is his defense. Well, now that he is coming in off the bench that is hardly as important as it was a few years ago. I said this in another thread, but look around the league .. How many backup point guards are better then him? I think I came up with around 4. He is a weapon, and a solid steady veteran on a team that lacks veteran leadership. I think trading Beno, and replacing his spot on the roster with Jimmer not only hurts you on the court for at least a year or so, but it also hurts you off the court (not that Jimmer is a bad guy.. but adding another young player for one of your only vets isnt a great move).

He has proven to be a very good piece for our team. He is hands down one of our most consistent players, and has the ability to play off the ball with Evans, Thornton, or both. And I'm willing to bet he means more to this team then any other team, so the return for a Beno trade wont be great.

I'm not saying he is untouchable, but I'm absolutely against just dumping his contract, and If we are trading him for the sake of Kemba Walker or Jimmer Fredettes playtime .. I couldnt be more against that.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
2) Udrih is the best distributor of the three but has been asked to defer to Evans half or more of the time, so we have not tested him as the main playmaker full-time. Part of the slack in team ball distribution has been well covered by Cousins and this is quite good when it is good and quite awful when it is awful which is far too much of the time. We have a need for significant improvement in ball handling/distribution. Cousins will get there but not next season, and when he does, improvement in distribution at the guards positions will still be necessary. To progress I say get a better distributor now.
I have to disagree with you here. Beno had two full years as the lead guard before we drafted Evans, one of which was pretty good and one of which was mediocre, so he has been tested as the full-time playmaker already. If the front office was confident in him as the point guard they wouldn't have forced Tyreke into that role as a rookie.

Furthermore, Tyreke actually did a pretty good job as the PG in his rookie season, especially considering that he only spent one year in college and only played half his games there at PG. Compare his numbers to other star PGs in their rookie season -- Rose, Westbrook, Paul, Williams, Rondo. Only Paul stands out as a better PG. He had a setback last season, but it's still too early to rush in his replacement I think.

Tyreke has become the scapegoat for our offensive inefficiency, but the problems don't all rest on his shoulders. If he improves his shot enough to keep the defense guessing and he has better shooters around him there's going to be a lot more space for him to get to the basket again like he did in his rookie season. Actually, he played off the ball more this season and he was mostly terrible in that role (as he was at Memphis) so it makes even less sense to bring in a playmaker. If he is going to slide to SG, we have to pair him with a shooter who can play off the ball.
 
I cant understand why so many people are so quick to unload Beno. He is so underrated by some Kings Fans.

In my opinion, unloading Beno just so you can draft Jimmer or Kemba is stupid. Why not just keep Beno and add a player at a different position who can help? Beno's biggest, and actually only real problem is his defense. Well, now that he is coming in off the bench that is hardly as important as it was a few years ago. I said this in another thread, but look around the league .. How many backup point guards are better then him? I think I came up with around 4. He is a weapon, and a solid steady veteran on a team that lacks veteran leadership. I think trading Beno, and replacing his spot on the roster with Jimmer not only hurts you on the court for at least a year or so, but it also hurts you off the court (not that Jimmer is a bad guy.. but adding another young player for one of your only vets isnt a great move).

He has proven to be a very good piece for our team. He is hands down one of our most consistent players, and has the ability to play off the ball with Evans, Thornton, or both. And I'm willing to bet he means more to this team then any other team, so the return for a Beno trade wont be great.

I'm not saying he is untouchable, but I'm absolutely against just dumping his contract, and If we are trading him for the sake of Kemba Walker or Jimmer Fredettes playtime .. I couldnt be more against that.
I take that you aren't concerned about distribution on offense with starting guards of Evans and Thornton. If you are not, please reassure me. Thanks.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Baja, how did the matchups go between Leonard and Fredette in three games they faced each other last season? I caught some of second of the three contests but don't recall a lot of individual details - except for Jimmer going off big in both conference games. Obviously, Kawhi and Jimmer were not necessarily on each other all that much - or I don't think so. I heard that after BYU had won first two games (home and then in San Diego) that at conference title game won by SDSU in Las Vegas Leonard was on Jimmer like glue in that last one and it paid off with the Aztecs victory.
Well, I think everyone on the San Diego St. team took a turn at guarding Fredette in their final game. And that included Leonard. Jimmer still went off for 30 pts in that game. Unfortunately he got nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing from the rest of his team. The fact that BYU beat SDSU twice during the regular season is a credit to Fredette. Anyone that watched SDSU play, knows that the one thing they were noted for was defense.

I think it should be noted that in the third meeting, BYU didn't have the services of of Brandon Davies, who may have been the second best player on the BYU team. He was suspended for an honor code violation. He was also the recepient of a large part of Fredette's assist total. Davies was the only inside presence on the BYU team.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I cant understand why so many people are so quick to unload Beno. He is so underrated by some Kings Fans.

In my opinion, unloading Beno just so you can draft Jimmer or Kemba is stupid. Why not just keep Beno and add a player at a different position who can help? Beno's biggest, and actually only real problem is his defense. Well, now that he is coming in off the bench that is hardly as important as it was a few years ago. I said this in another thread, but look around the league .. How many backup point guards are better then him? I think I came up with around 4. He is a weapon, and a solid steady veteran on a team that lacks veteran leadership. I think trading Beno, and replacing his spot on the roster with Jimmer not only hurts you on the court for at least a year or so, but it also hurts you off the court (not that Jimmer is a bad guy.. but adding another young player for one of your only vets isnt a great move).

He has proven to be a very good piece for our team. He is hands down one of our most consistent players, and has the ability to play off the ball with Evans, Thornton, or both. And I'm willing to bet he means more to this team then any other team, so the return for a Beno trade wont be great.

I'm not saying he is untouchable, but I'm absolutely against just dumping his contract, and If we are trading him for the sake of Kemba Walker or Jimmer Fredettes playtime .. I couldnt be more against that.
I'm not sure why adding a Fredette or a Walker means we have to get rid of Beno. Whats wrong with having four guards on the team? Especially when two of them lean more to the SG position than the PG position. There's nothing wrong with having a lot of talented depth. If it becomes a problem down the road, you can always make a trade later. Beno only has two years left on his contract anyway, so drafting another player with similar traits is not a bad idea. Whether its in the first round or the second round. I happen to like Beno, and he's experienced and knows whatever the hell system we have. No matter who we might draft at his position, there's going to be an adjustment period. So there's no need to take a selfimposed step back, in order to take a step forward.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I have to disagree with you here. Beno had two full years as the lead guard before we drafted Evans, one of which was pretty good and one of which was mediocre, so he has been tested as the full-time playmaker already. If the front office was confident in him as the point guard they wouldn't have forced Tyreke into that role as a rookie.

Furthermore, Tyreke actually did a pretty good job as the PG in his rookie season, especially considering that he only spent one year in college and only played half his games there at PG. Compare his numbers to other star PGs in their rookie season -- Rose, Westbrook, Paul, Williams, Rondo. Only Paul stands out as a better PG. He had a setback last season, but it's still too early to rush in his replacement I think.

Tyreke has become the scapegoat for our offensive inefficiency, but the problems don't all rest on his shoulders. If he improves his shot enough to keep the defense guessing and he has better shooters around him there's going to be a lot more space for him to get to the basket again like he did in his rookie season. Actually, he played off the ball more this season and he was mostly terrible in that role (as he was at Memphis) so it makes even less sense to bring in a playmaker. If he is going to slide to SG, we have to pair him with a shooter who can play off the ball.
Tyreke has two flaws that are hurting his overall game, and hurting the team. The obvious one is of course his inability to shoot consistently from the outside. The other is taking too long to get into our offensive set. In short, he takes too much time getting the ball up the floor, and at times he spends too much time just dribbling the ball instead of moving the ball when he has nothing. A lot of the second part is inexperience and just part of the learning process.

So I think the perfect guy to put on the floor as his running mate is someone that can also bring up the ball, at times push the ball, and someone that can also run the offense, and allow Tyreke to play off the ball at times. Thirdly, this player should be able to shoot the ball and be a good outlet from doubleteams. In my opinion, the more flexable you backcourt can be, the better your team will be.

To my mind, Thornton fills all those needs to some extent. Adding another player thats capable, certainly won't hurt the team. Whether thats a priority or not is up the the powers that be. Dallas won the championship this year with good interior defense, and maybe the best bench in the NBA. And it was a deep bench. Let by Terry and Barea, two guards. Not everyone is going to on every night. So the more firepower you have, the better.
 
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I take that you aren't concerned about distribution on offense with starting guards of Evans and Thornton. If you are not, please reassure me. Thanks.
Sure, its a concern, but Its nothing I think Jimmer or Kemba would come in and fix right away.. and thats really what I'm talking about here. If you wanted to trade Beno and the pick for a player that I know will upgrade our roster, I'm all for it.

Plus, I'm much more concerned with having a distrubtor on the bench then as a starter. Bench players like Thompson, Garcia, Casspi, and Donte cant really create there own shots, so they need a guy like Beno "directing traffic" telling guys where to be and delivering the ball to them in the right spots.

In the starting lineup, with ball dominant guards like Thornton and Evans .. both guys who can create for themselves .. They dont need a distributor. Plus the trio of Cousins/Evans/Thornton are all playmakers. They can all pass the ball a bit.

Its tough to say anything because we dont know who the starting SF will be. We can assume Dally/Cousins/Evans/Thornton will be 4 of the 5 starters, but beyond that its a tough call. I think adding Iggy could help out a lot, while he isnt the best shooter he is a decent creator and can help with ball movement.

Its very much a give and take thing. While Evans and Thornton wont be the best distributing Combo, they will be big for there positions and good defensively. They can hopefully create matchup problems for the other team. So while they may not be great in one catagory, they can make up for it in others. I think it will work out, I hope it will work out, but I dont know for sure, and if it doesnt we can always change things.