Which Players Will Make The Final Cut?

Mr. S£im Citrus said:
That makes someone a good shooter, not a good scorer. Iverson is a good scorer. Stojakovic is a good shooter.
Click to expand...
Yes, Slim is right. Scorers are like players like Iverson, Stackhouse (when he led the league in ppg), Steve Fransis, and TMac (the last year).
 
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
No you don't; all you have to do is take a lot of shots.


Why not? What does Hughes do that Alexander doesn't?
Click to expand...
So if I were to go to the NBA and take 50 shots a game and score 25+ points a game I'd be one of the best scorers of all time ?

Nonsense ! By your definition even Ostertag could be a great scorer.

A good scorer makes shots at an efficient rate.
 
OptimusRhyme said:
Martins the player we need out there, I would much rather depend on a guy thats not injured all the time, I meen come on its pre-season and Alexander already has two injuries, Martin has shown up to every game practice and is capable of playing quality minutes for this team, Yah I'm real confident in Martin I can even see him making the all rookie team if hes gets enough minutes, Martin i'm sure of it can score just as much if not more then Alexander in a game, hes proven that by his knack to getting to the line ( 1st Freethrow Attempts, First Free Throws Made for rookies), hes putting up about 9 points a game andhes hardly shooting, hes letting all the other players shoot, now think of when he gets totally comfortable out there, which he is doing more every game and into his actuall rhythm and our offense, the kid is a pure shooter hes gonna put up points for us i meen ( he was the nations second leading scorer last year). Plus he plays defence, and does the little things that Alexander dosen't do, because i've watched Alexander play and all I've seen from him is SCORING,Alexanders been known for not playing defence or doing the little things, plus hes not too friendly with the teamates, Martin crashes the boards and can run the floor like crazy. Martin would be the smarter selection for us this year because we are going to want to keep him around for a long time, He is our rising star, I betcha Alexander won't even be on this squad next year, so why not get just as good production from a player with the same caliber skills and even higher ones in some categorys, and develop him as well.
Click to expand...

You act as though devloping Martin isnt something that isnt gonna happen naturally. Like by the end of this year if he plays 30 mins he is gonna be a huge factor..I'm sorry but it isnt gonna happen way too skinny and limited....they need a vet. The Kings need to win "this year" so a high scoring option off the bench is needed. This we are gonna keep him so play him crap is stupid, this isnt the time for that if you really are a Kings fan with that logic you will always be developing players. Tahts the stance the Bulls have been taking for years, sticking players who have limits cause of strength i.e. (Tyson Chandler) or post moves i.e (Eddy Curry) , or team play i.e (JAmal Crawford) and you'll be rebuilding forever. Kings need to win RIGHT NOW whether its Alexander or someone else, they need another guard cause the injury Christie has isnt one where you heal and thats it. Its a reocurring problem, this is the same injury that has been plaguing Shaq for the last 3 yrs.
 
Kingsgurl said:
According to todays Sacramento Bee, young Mr. Alexander might want to get his hurting butt out on the court



http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story/11210908p-12126707c.html
Click to expand...
I said off the bat I like Courtney's offense game, been seeing him since he was in high school, when he went to Virginia and avg. 16ppg as a fr. and on to Fresno St. I admitted my bias towards him thats why I came to the board. He is the only real reason im following the Kings. But i'm a basketball fan more, And if he is cut i wish all you the best....I took what Adelman said way different than the beat writer did(and i think he is wrong). What I took from it was Adelman saying he needs to get out there or we have to go in a different direction...meaning......if he can't play we arent gonna keep waiting for him to get healthy when by Dec1. we can just pay him 300G's and be done with it. If that happens it happens. But i dont think they'll be holding on to Erik Daniels, and Maurice Evans cause they "played the best" this isnt high school tyrouts. Players have to earn a rep or show something outstanding to warrant keeping......the beat writer is acting as though Adelman is looking at this like a high school tryout.... he knew what players he wanted to keep when camp started, he is just seeing if anything changes his mind. Courtney was on his list at the start, and he is seeing if he has to change his mind. That's it.
 
Stojakovic said:
So if I were to go to the NBA and take 50 shots a game and score 25+ points a game I'd be one of the best scorers of all time ?

Nonsense ! By your definition even Ostertag could be a great scorer.

A good scorer makes shots at an efficient rate.
Click to expand...
flawed logic.....Ostertag cant get off 50 shots in a game...a scorer is someone who can create his own chances. thats the part of the definition that you are missing
 
Stojakovic said:
So if I were to go to the NBA and take 50 shots a game and score 25+ points a game I'd be one of the best scorers of all time ?

Nonsense ! By your definition even Ostertag could be a great scorer.

A good scorer makes shots at an efficient rate.
Click to expand...
Exactly, a Scorer is someone who scores efficiently, your exactly right! Anyone can score 25 points on 50 shots.
 
Last edited:
Truconfidence said:
flawed logic.....Ostertag cant get off 50 shots in a game...a scorer is someone who can create his own chances. thats the part of the definition that you are missing
Click to expand...
Hes just using Ostertag as an example, It could of been Dan Dickau or anybody I dunno if you caught that part or not, the point is it dosen't matter if Ostertag can get those shots off or not, if he did he would be a great scorer by your definition.
 
Last edited:
Truconfidence said:
I said off the bat I like Courtney's offense game, been seeing him since he was in high school, when he went to Virginia and avg. 16ppg as a fr. and on to Fresno St. I admitted my bias towards him thats why I came to the board. He is the only real reason im following the Kings. But i'm a basketball fan more, And if he is cut i wish all you the best....I took what Adelman said way different than the beat writer did(and i think he is wrong). What I took from it was Adelman saying he needs to get out there or we have to go in a different direction...meaning......if he can't play we arent gonna keep waiting for him to get healthy when by Dec1. we can just pay him 300G's and be done with it. If that happens it happens. But i dont think they'll be holding on to Erik Daniels, and Maurice Evans cause they "played the best" this isnt high school tyrouts. Players have to earn a rep or show something outstanding to warrant keeping......the beat writer is acting as though Adelman is looking at this like a high school tryout.... he knew what players he wanted to keep when camp started, he is just seeing if anything changes his mind. Courtney was on his list at the start, and he is seeing if he has to change his mind. That's it.
Click to expand...
Well too bad Martins gonna play over him. Yah and as of right now I would take Maurice Evans on my team rather then Alexander, at least Evans can play defence.
 
Last edited:
I bet Martin is gonna play more in the beginning, if Alexander is there he will eventually get more minutes Optimus....also your logic is still flawed, even if you use Dan Dickau. A Scorer is someone who can create his own shot...Still never seen Dan Dickau create his own shot. or has a nose for the ball, he is a guy who can hit a J and has decent handle....thats not a scorer...you're equating the number of shots with a mentality.....that isnt what the orginal posters was getting at when he brought up shots, if Dan Dickau gets 50 shots, it will be augly game one cause he is a PG two cause can you image the amount of work to get those shots off he would need.
 
Mad D said:
but isnt that what a shooter should do too?
Click to expand...
Yah but thats not what hes saying hes saying, because Slim said by his definition a good scorer is someone that could throw up 100 shots a game for 25 points? Now I don't call that a Good Scorer, a Good Scorer is someone who shoots the minimum shots he has to and scores the maximum amount off of them. Not someone who jacks up all the shots in the world so he can score.
 
OptimusRhyme said:
Well too bad Martins gonna play over him. Yah and as of right now I would take Maurice Evans on my team rather then Alexander, at least Evans can play defence.
Click to expand...
ok Optimus i can tell I've got you riled up, we will just see....okay...i'll stop since you seem to be gettign annoyed
 
Truconfidence said:
I bet Martin is gonna play more in the beginning, if Alexander is there he will eventually get more minutes Optimus....also your logic is still flawed, even if you use Dan Dickau. A Scorer is someone who can create his own shot...Still never seen Dan Dickau create his own shot. or has a nose for the ball, he is a guy who can hit a J and has decent handle....thats not a scorer...you're equating the number of shots with a mentality.....that isnt what the orginal posters was getting at when he brought up shots, if Dan Dickau gets 50 shots, it will be augly game one cause he is a PG two cause can you image the amount of work to get those shots off he would need.
Click to expand...
What are you talking about "flawed logic" your speaking gibberish, they were talkin about how a good scorer is someone who can shoot the ball as many times as he want to score points. So your saying if all Iverson, Pierce & Davis did one game was shoot jumpshots and scored 30 points each, they wouldn't be good scorers? exactly
 
Good scorer example......Alex English for all you old shcool heads. He could:
A: create his own shot
B: get his points in the flow of the game
C: get his shots off picks
D:can get a pts off offense rebs.
 
OptimusRhyme said:
What are you talking about "flawed logic" your speaking gibberish, they were talkin about how a good scorer is someone who can shoot the ball as many times as he want to score points. So your saying if all Iverson, Pierce & Davis did one game was shoot jumpshots and scored 30 points each, they wouldn't be good scorers? exactly
Click to expand...
no!!!!!!!!!! Im saying they can get points themselves and dont need offense run for them, they can beat their man one-on-one...thats a scorer not someone who "scorers the most pts on the highest %"
the logic is flawed cause that would make Georghe Mursean the greatest scorer of all time...and flawed logic isnt gibberish

Thats what a good scorer is
 
Truconfidence said:
no!!!!!!!!!! Im saying they can get points themselves and dont need offense run for them, they can beat their man one-on-one...thats a scorer not someone who "scorers the most pts on the highest %"
the logic is flawed cause that would make Georghe Mursean the greatest scorer of all time...and flawed logic isnt gibberish

Thats what a good scorer is
Click to expand...
Ok im done proving you wrong, so your saying Peja isn't a good scorer, he can''t drive, all he does is shoot? Yet he was the leagues second leading scorer?
 
OptimusRhyme said:
What are you talking about "flawed logic" your speaking gibberish, they were talkin about how a good scorer is someone who can shoot the ball as many times as he want to score points. So your saying if all Iverson, Pierce & Davis did one game was shoot jumpshots and scored 30 points each, they wouldn't be good scorers? exactly
Click to expand...
no!!!!!!!!!! Im saying they can get points themselves and dont need offense run for them, they can beat their man one-on-one...thats a scorer not someone who "scorers the most pts on the highest %"
the logic is flawed cause that would make Georghe Mursean the greatest scorer of all time...and flawed logic isnt gibberish

Thats what a good scorer is
 
OptimusRhyme said:
Ok im done proving you wrong, so your saying Peja isn't a good scorer, he can''t drive, all he does is shoot? Yet he was the leagues second leading scorer?
Click to expand...
no!!! you take every statement out of complete context,lol.........I said a scorer is someone who finds multiple ways of scoring. Peja does beat his man one of one sometimes, he doesnt shoot all J's. and you havent come close to proving me wrong

edit:Peja like Reggie can set his man up using his ability to shoot J's to draw fouls, or get a step. Reggie Miller is a scorer, and he doesnt shoot a high pert...Carmelo Anthony shot horrible last year and he is a scorer i take it right????There is an old saying sometimes Scorer has to take bad shots to get their rhytmn. IVerson is the most glaring case of it in the NBA, but there are plenty others. World B Free is an older one
 
Last edited:
Truconfidence said:
so using your logic NeNe of Denver is a great scorer. Gotcha..Georghe Mursean is too
Click to expand...
No I said HIGHEST points, not 10 or 8 just because he has a high field goal % dosent meen anythign because that could meen he dosen't shoot a lot, somone like Kevin Garnett, who can score a high number of points with a very high feild goal percentage. Im not saying anyone with a high field goal percentage is a good scorer.
 
Last edited:
OptimusRhyme said:
No I said HIGHEST points, not 10 or 8 just because he has a high field goal % dosent meen anythign because that could meen he dosen't shoot a lot, somone like Kevin Garnett, who can score a high number of points with a very high feild goal percentage. Im not saying anyone with a high field goal percentage is a good scorer.
Click to expand...
exactly thats why saying if someone who never would shoot cause they couldnt get off that many shots like Ostertag or Dan Dickau is flawed logic....Scoring is a mentality, not something that can statistically measured by something as simple as fg% now if IVerson with his 38% fg was availble i know 29gm's would be interested cause he has a scoring ability that is dynamic. now to relate it back to Alexander you keep pointing out his stats...and this is the last thing i'll say on it. that year in NO, Paul Silas runs alot of Two man game plays where Alexander and Wesley whoever is the weak-side guard gets the ball after the Mash/B Davis two man game breaks down usually with 3 or 4 on the shot clock. Courtney is not a catch and shoot player, David Wesley is...thats why his fg% was so low. I think on the Kings he has a better shot because they run. which was helping him in the pre-season when Floyd was ther he scored 14ptsin 24mins in their first pre-season game last year cause they were running. If B/jax and him are out there thats easy pts. Adleman brought up his concern with the fact in his main rotation B jackson is the only offense option off the bench . Songalia can score but more off offense boards and short J's. Ostertag is no factor, and if christie isnt 100% where is the scoring gonna come from....thats all im getting at im not saying Kevin Martin sucks. I like his game I just dont think if the Kings win the title he'll be a major factor, i think they need another big scorer if Christie cant play. Thats all, wasnt saying Martin was horrid...which you seem to be taking it, just not sold on him as a NBA starter. Courtney already had a rookie year he was NBA 2nd team all rookie, and rookie of the month. I guess im a prove it to me person..thats all
 
Truconfidence said:
exactly thats why saying if someone who never would shoot cause they couldnt get off that many shots like Ostertag or Dan Dickau is flawed logic....Scoring is a mentality, not something that can statistically measured by something as simple as fg% now if IVerson with his 38% fg was availble i know 29gm's would be interested cause he has a scoring ability that is dynamic. now to relate it back to Alexander you keep pointing out his stats...and this is the last thing i'll say on it. that year in NO, Paul Silas runs alot of Two man game plays where Alexander and Wesley whoever is the weak-side guard gets the ball after the Mash/B Davis two man game breaks down usually with 3 or 4 on the shot clock. Courtney is not a catch and shoot player, David Wesley is...thats why his fg% was so low. I think on the Kings he has a better shot because they run. which was helping him in the pre-season when Floyd was ther he scored 14ptsin 24mins in their first pre-season game last year cause they were running. If B/jax and him are out there thats easy pts. Adleman brought up his concern with the fact in his main rotation B jackson is the only offense option off the bench . Songalia can score but more off offense boards and short J's. Ostertag is no factor, and if christie isnt 100% where is the scoring gonna come from....thats all im getting at im not saying Kevin Martin sucks. I like his game I just dont think if the Kings win the title he'll be a major factor, i think they need another big scorer if Christie cant play. Thats all, wasnt saying Martin was horrid...which you seem to be taking it, just not sold on him as a NBA starter. Courtney already had a rookie year he was NBA 2nd team all rookie, and rookie of the month. I guess im a prove it to me person..thats all
Click to expand...
No We don't need another scorer because if you knew anythign about the Kings you would know Adelman uses an 8 man Rotation, which is Miller (Scorer), Webber (Scorer),Peja (Scorer),Christie, Bibby (Scorer), Jackson (Scorer), Songaila ( Mediorcre scorer), Martin (Scorer/Defender/Does all the little things that Courtney Alexander does not do, EX. Hustle, Pass first mentality, Good player attitude, but most of all defense, Martin challenges every play on Defense, Courtney dosen't, Martin Brings so much more to the table then Courtney.
 
My final cut guess with one likely on the DL:
Daniels
Alexander
Evans, Blumenthal or Minard
Parada

Both Minard and Blumenthal have partial guarantees but neither has shown much so far. They lit up summer league but now....... Blu has no real game except shooting 3's. Minard trys to drive the bucket every chance and doesn't show much of any other game. Would not be suprised if both don't make it.

If Alexander heals and gets back into last 2 preseason games and shows he can score and defend then he is in.

Parada is a project but he is a big body and does ok as a raw rookie near the basket. He isn't going to take minutes from anyone but he bangs and rebounds and puts 270 lb in the middle. And hey, he can trash talk with Arroyo, Lopez, Najera and Ginobli.
 
OptimusRhyme said:
No We don't need another scorer because if you knew anythign about the Kings you would know Adelman uses an 8 man Rotation, which is Miller (Scorer), Webber (Scorer),Peja (Scorer),Christie, Bibby (Scorer), Jackson (Scorer), Songaila ( Mediorcre scorer), Martin (Scorer/Defender/Does all the little things that Courtney Alexander does not do, EX. Hustle, Pass first mentality, Good player attitude, but most of all defense, Martin challenges every play on Defense, Courtney dosen't, Martin Brings so much more to the table then Courtney.
Click to expand...
well i guess you need to tell Adelman that cause he said he doesnt know what kind of scoring they have on the bench, i didnt make that up, that is out of his own mouth
 
Well, that could be partly because we haven't actually SEEN our true bench thus far in the pre-season. Thus far we have seen some really......interesting combinations, but nothing really resembling what the actual rotation will look like over the course of the season once DC is back in the starting line-up and Tag begins his career as a King.
 
OptimusRhyme said:
No I said HIGHEST points, not 10 or 8 just because he has a high field goal % dosent meen anythign because that could meen he dosen't shoot a lot, somone like Kevin Garnett, who can score a high number of points with a very high feild goal percentage. Im not saying anyone with a high field goal percentage is a good scorer.
Click to expand...
good/great scorers (they find a way to score by creating their own shot while doing it at an effiecient rate. Whether its by slashing through the lane or pulling up for a mid range jumper):
Kobe, Grant Hill (pre injury), MJ (Prime), Carter, KG

scorers (they just find a way to score. Sometimes their team depends on them to score so they may force the action. This causes them to become inefficient in shooting percentages):
Iverson, Baron Davis, Stackhouse, Jason Terry, Nick Van Axel

shooters (coming off picks, setting up at the 3 point line, or left open due to a drawn up play):
Rip, Matt Harpring, Sam Cassel
 
Last edited:
Mad D said:
good/great scorers (they find a way to score by creating their own shot while doing it at an effiecient rate. Whether its by slashing through the lane or pulling up for a mid range jumper):
Kobe, Grant Hill (pre injury), MJ (Prime), Carter, KG

scorers (they just find a way to score. Sometimes their team depends on them to score so they may force the action. This causes them to become inefficient in shooting percentages):
Iverson, Baron Davis, Stackhouse, Jason Terry, Nick Van Axel

shooters (coming off picks, setting up at the 3 point line, or left open due to a drawn up play):
Rip, Matt Harpring, Sam Cassel
Click to expand...

Yah and I would much rather have a guy out there that plays defence then a guy that scores 8 points on 38 % field goal shooting. Im don with all this pointless talk we will see whos right and whos wrong.
 
OptimusRhyme said:
Yah and I would much rather have a guy out there that plays defence then a guy that scores 8 points on 38 % field goal shooting. Im don with all this pointless talk we will see whos right and whos wrong.
Click to expand...
well actually i shouldnt have quoted because i wasnt trying to conter your qoute, i was just really redifining some definitions i saw early in the thread
 
Last edited:
CruzDude said:
My final cut guess with one likely on the DL:
Daniels
Alexander
Evans, Blumenthal or Minard
Parada

Both Minard and Blumenthal have partial guarantees but neither has shown much so far. They lit up summer league but now....... Blu has no real game except shooting 3's. Minard trys to drive the bucket every chance and doesn't show much of any other game. Would not be suprised if both don't make it.

If Alexander heals and gets back into last 2 preseason games and shows he can score and defend then he is in.

Parada is a project but he is a big body and does ok as a raw rookie near the basket. He isn't going to take minutes from anyone but he bangs and rebounds and puts 270 lb in the middle. And hey, he can trash talk with Arroyo, Lopez, Najera and Ginobli.
Click to expand...
Good choices, I would say Evans has a shot at the team, hes shown hes not the most impressive player but he gets his job done, he does the little things like defend hustle and hits his open shots, I would like to see him fill a far spot on the bench in case someone gets injured or not. I also can't see Bluthenthal & Minard making the team, Blu's too 1 Dimensional, and Minard just dosen't look like NBA material. We can maybe send Minard over to Europe and see how he turns out later.

So Far I Have:

Barnes
Evans
F/A Point Guard
F/A Centre Making the team

I think they are going to use the waivers list, and if Adelman was thinking about picking up Parada to clog the lane why not pick up Bateer (300LBS).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top