Which Players Will Make The Final Cut?
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OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
It dosen't really matter its just the fact that I would rather have a guy out there with a defensive game to, which Courtney has absolutley none of, I don't get why you like Alexander so much, your so high on him, the year he scored 17 points a game he only played 22 games, now I would be impressed if he did that in 82 but he didn't, and no Alexander couldn't score 10 points in his sleep, if he could he wouldn't of averaged 7.8 on 38 % shooting 2 years ago, either way I already know that Adelman will play Martin over him, Alexander would be lucky to make the roster, and if he does he'll have a fun time sittin on the injured list.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
My friend, one of us has a serious boner over a player, and it ain't me. I've mentioned before I've never been in love with Alexander's game. However unlike some I am considerably more realistic about what Martin can and can't contribute right now.OptimusRhyme said:
Right. Because Rick Adelman has such a long, storied history of playing rookies and second/third-year players over established veterans.OptimusRhyme said:
Oh, wait...
SLAB
Hall of Famer
I agree with you Brick.
I see potential in Martin, and think he will be an above average reserve in the future, I just can't see him contributing right off the bat.
Also, will Martin be a significantly better defender than Alexander. I highly doubt it. Alexander is pretty bad, but I see problems in Martin also.
---He seems to be a foul machine.
---He is to weak.
I see potential in Martin, and think he will be an above average reserve in the future, I just can't see him contributing right off the bat.
Also, will Martin be a significantly better defender than Alexander. I highly doubt it. Alexander is pretty bad, but I see problems in Martin also.
---He seems to be a foul machine.
---He is to weak.
OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
Really what about Songaila, Jason Williams & Peja? Im sure he wouldn't have a problem playing Martin in the back up SG spot if he backed Webber up with a second rounder last year?Mr. S£im Citrus said:
bdouble013
Bench
Best....line...EVER!
Now I need a new keyboard. Thanks Brickie.
OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
How can you not see him contributing when hes already contributing, and ya From all the pre-season games this year Martin has done an excellent job on defence(Tmac 12,14), (Richardson 13) (Kobe 10 pts 2-10), do you think those fouls could be explained by him guarding those superstars in his first cuple games, thats gotta be a little hard on the fist year player in his first cuple games, and its strange how his last too games he guarded Giricek and JR Smith and he only got 2 & 3 fouls? His weakness? I sure haven't noticed, hes the Top rookie Free throw attempter, & Free Throws Made, so his "weakness" is obviously not stopping him from getting to the line? and scoring 8-12 points a game!SLAB said:
Songaila = Early in the season, he didn't get most of those minutes behind Miller; Massenburg did, until 1) Massenburg proved to be a ****bag, and 2) Songaila proved to be better than Massenburg.OptimusRhyme said:
Jason Williams = Was a lottery pick. In the NBA, you start lottery picks, or you get fired.
Stojakovic = was the backup for "Scorliss" Williamson for two years. Adelman wasn't exactly chomping at the bit to play him.
And, let's not forget his track record with players like Wallace and Turkoglu. To say nothing of Petrovic.
:: mumbles to himself, "great; now I'm going to get the Euro fans going again..." ::
OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
Stojakovic played 22 minutes a game his first year, exactly on Songaila, so isn't that still playing a rookie, right, and if you actually look at the Minutes played for Turkoglu he has 17 his first season and 24 his second and that was the season before Jackson came, obviously he was gonna play Jackson over him because Jackson was a better player and defender, what else was he suppose to do? Wallace didn't fit our offence (he coudn't shoot so that why he didnt play him) Martin does fit our offence he's a pure shooter.Mr. S£im Citrus said:
I find myself remembering that old line by Benjamin Disraeli about lies, damned lies, and statistics. Stojakovic may have averaged twenty-two minutes a game, but he didn't play twenty-two minutes in fifty games, if you follow me. Songaila may have averaged twenty or so minutes, but he also had nine DNP-CD's. And the seven starts he got due to attrition skew those numbers slightly. How much time do you think Donyell Marshall got as a rookie in Golden State for Adelman? I mean, I like Adelman as much as the next guy, and probably more than a lot of people here, but to suggest that he plays rookies and unproven players out of choice rather than out of necessity, when his track record says otherwise, is to be misinformed. I'm sure that Coach will even tell you himself that he'd rather have the veterans.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Peja and JWill were from a different era -- an era when we sucked and were rebuilding and so jsut threw the kids on the court.
Last year, Darius, as has been noted, started the season buried behind super-journeyman Tony Massenberg. He earned his way up in the rotation with superior play. Ditto Hedo, who started out getting very few minutes and earned them as he grew up. And of course Gerald apparently never did earn minutes.
All of which would not matter, or at least should not, if Martin was tearing up the league. But he's not. He's showing flashes. That's encouraging. But as noted his overall performance isn' there yet. If he's great this preseason, then Courtney's been great over his career. And Courtney hasn't been great over his career.
You want to jock a stud rook this preseason go check out a Luol Deng (14pts 5.5 rebs 25min) or a Dwight Howard (13pts 8.2rebs .526shooting in 29min). Kevin's showing he has NBA game. He's not showing his destined for stardom or anything close yet.
Last year, Darius, as has been noted, started the season buried behind super-journeyman Tony Massenberg. He earned his way up in the rotation with superior play. Ditto Hedo, who started out getting very few minutes and earned them as he grew up. And of course Gerald apparently never did earn minutes.
All of which would not matter, or at least should not, if Martin was tearing up the league. But he's not. He's showing flashes. That's encouraging. But as noted his overall performance isn' there yet. If he's great this preseason, then Courtney's been great over his career. And Courtney hasn't been great over his career.
You want to jock a stud rook this preseason go check out a Luol Deng (14pts 5.5 rebs 25min) or a Dwight Howard (13pts 8.2rebs .526shooting in 29min). Kevin's showing he has NBA game. He's not showing his destined for stardom or anything close yet.
OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
But in the end he did play his rookies in Stojakovic and Songaila, it dosen't matter when he played them he still played them, and thats what i'm saying hes going to do with Martin. I understand what your saying in the statistics but he still ended up playing them for that amount of time, even though he had veterans, and Martin Backing up Christie dosen't meen he's gonna be out there for 25 minutes a game, he'll get around 15-18 minutes a game this year. You will see Martin will backup Christie this year because he is our future, we wanna get him liking the team now, and this would be the smart thing to do, plus considering HES A GOOD PLAYER, i know i have only seen him play in 5 nba games, but you can tell he has what it takes to contribute this year, you can tell he's getting better as each game passes, the last two games he has looked so comfortable out there, he 's averaging 11.5 pts and 2 steals in 20 minutes the last 2 games hes so much more intense out there driving to the rim.
I know a lot of you might not agree on my opinion but none of this Alexander talk has even flinched me into changing my opinion on who should back up Christie!
I know a lot of you might not agree on my opinion but none of this Alexander talk has even flinched me into changing my opinion on who should back up Christie!
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OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
Yah Luols also shot 33 more shots then Martin in the same number of games, what does that tell you? Of course Luol Deng is going to be averaging 15 points a game, 5 rebounds, I'm sure if the Kings sucked like Chicago (which they don't) and they relied on Martin (which they don't), and he shot 33 more shots then he has now, he would have those same stats. Plus why would you even bring Howard into this, he is the number one pick obviously he is going to be doing good.Bricklayer said:
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When Christie is healthy, Martin is going to be the fourth guard in a three-guard rotation. Take that however you like.
OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
Yah which would be Anthony Peelers role last year right? Which was 18.5 minutes! So I assume you agree with that last staement that Martin will play over Alexander?
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
OptimusRhyme said:
Now you're beginning to sound really desperate.
Yes, and I'm equally sure if the Kings just threw the ball to Alexander every time down the floor and had to rely on him he could once again score 17ppg or whatever. At least he's actually PROVEN he could do that as opposed to random extrapolation and speculation.
Why is it so important to you that a rook who had made some nice plays in preseason be annointed as savior at this stage? He's averaging 8ppg 2rpg 1apg. You can try to spin that all you want, but he's not scaring anybody yet. What's the rush? Either he'll blossom or he won't.
OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
I stick with my opinions and I will argue if somebody differs, how am I beggining to sound really desperate, I was speaking the truth, We have Peja Miller Webber Bibby Jackson to score and Martin is still scoring on his limited shots. They have Curry Hinrich and Nocioni, obviously Deng's going to score because they need him too, Martin dosen't need to score for us, and when we do need him to he has, I'm sure if Martin has been called upon as much as Deng has then he would be doing just as good! Because as you can see he can score and rebound but there are others players there to do it, yet he still puts up decent number IMO.
Actually, Peeler got most of his minutes 1) after Bobby Jackson got injured, and 2) as Stojakovic's primary (albiet undersized) backup.OptimusRhyme said:
No, I do not agree that Martin will play over Alexander; I think that Alexander, by the end of the season, will have logged more minutes than Martin. And that has nothing to do with who I think is better.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Yes probably.OptimusRhyme said:
And if we just threw him the ball and let him shoot as much as Kobe he'd probably average 30!! 
OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
Well I think that Alexander won't even make the team, due to his injury problems, Non-Defense, Bad Attitude, and Hogging the Ball mentality, I'm no rook on Courtney Alexander I have seen him play more then enough and he dosen't have all the great player qualities your making him out to have, yes he can score the ball, but so can Martin, Alexander dosen't play defence which i'm sure the Kings could really use, he dosen't hustle for boards, and he has a scorers first mentality on a team that revolves their offence around passing. He also shot 38 percent 2 years ago , I thought scorers had to be efficient?Mr. S£im Citrus said:
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OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
Im not saying that he would average 30 a game but he could put up similar numbers to Deng, but I've had enough of this arguing with the two of you haha, its 2 in the mornin here and I got school tommorow, we both have our opinions on this topic, and we have all given good points as too why we have these opinions, now all I think we can do is wait to see whos right.. GoodnightBricklayer said:Yes probably.
OptimusRhyme said:
How's that again?
I think you may have scorers confused with shooters...
OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
Yah and Alexander sure isn't no Iverson, Pierce or Davis, because the difference is they shot 38-40 percent but they also led there teams and there teams relied on there shooting, do you really want a guy comin off the bench for 15 minutes only shooting 38 percent and not playing defence?
OptimusRhyme said:
He could be this guy, though:
And we could certainly do worse from our fourth/fifth guard...
OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
And you know what I meant by that, they had to be effiecient to be a good scorer, yes there are exceptions like Iverson & Pierce but If Iverson was on the Kings you wouldn't see him putting up even close to 25 points a game, because he is such an inneficient shooter.
OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
Aiight I really got to get to sleep, we'll continue this tommorow, Alexander is no Larry Hughes
No you don't; all you have to do is take a lot of shots.OptimusRhyme said:
Why not? What does Hughes do that Alexander doesn't?OptimusRhyme said:
OptimusRhyme
Jive Turkey
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
I Don't consider that a "Good" scorer, A good scorer is Peja Stojakovic who takes the Minimum shots he has to and gets the maximum points out of them, not someone who throws up 30 shots a game to get to 25 pts.
Larry rebounds better, passes WAYYYY better and defends a whole lot better!
That makes someone a good shooter, not a good scorer. Iverson is a good scorer. Stojakovic is a good shooter.OptimusRhyme said:
I don't know if I'd go so far as to say that Hughes is "a whole lot better" on defense than Alexander. I don't think anybody's shaking in their boots at the prospect of being defended by Hughes.