Which Players Will Make The Final Cut?
- Thread starter quick dog
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True as well. I think it's a trade off. Wei did an excelent job running the team as a floor general, but you are right his shot was not good and he realy was not able to paly defense in part I think beceause he was out matched in terms of strenth. Minard is not nearly the pg Wei is in terms of play making, passing and even movment away from the ball, but his defense and shot give him an edge as a potnetial back up PG, that is why I opt to keep him. However if I were a team looking for a starting PG for 2005-2006 I might prefer Wei, and might indeed talk to him after the Kings cut him.
I probaly have seen Alexander paly more than anybody on this board (except maybe Ryle) He has palyed all of a 10 min in a Kings jersy. I ahve no problem with Martin, but he is palying preseason and is an unproven rookie. Alexander has played big min in the NBA startng in 20+ games for Washington. (when healthy) Remeber Jordan was big on this guy when he was in the Wizzards organization, and despite his current minor ailments is reported to be in good shape to paly this year. So you look at Courtneys career palying in the NBA and Martins paly in 4 preseason games is just not the same kind of resume. If in the course of the season Alexander does NOT deliver, THEN you consider giving Martin his min, not befor.
Courtney Alexander is a veteran player with a pro body. He's much better than anything he's shown in the preseason or in training camp, and if I had to choose who would start between him and Kevin Martin right now, I'd probably go with Alexander. Besides, Kevin Martin would probably play better off the bench than Courtney would.
Now if it comes down to who we'd take if we're talking about the long-term, then of course you go with the talented rookie that everybody's high on, and pass on the 5th-year journeyman who couldn't stick with either the cellar-dwelling Wizards or the inept (and terribly thin at the swing spots) New Orleans Hornets. In fact, he was hurt most of last season, if I'm not mistaken. He did average over 17 points a game for a stretch with the Wizards a few years ago, so he'd probably be solid for a spell in our lineup.
Now if it comes down to who we'd take if we're talking about the long-term, then of course you go with the talented rookie that everybody's high on, and pass on the 5th-year journeyman who couldn't stick with either the cellar-dwelling Wizards or the inept (and terribly thin at the swing spots) New Orleans Hornets. In fact, he was hurt most of last season, if I'm not mistaken. He did average over 17 points a game for a stretch with the Wizards a few years ago, so he'd probably be solid for a spell in our lineup.
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The problem with Courtney isn't his offense. The problem with him is everything else. He doesn't hustle on defense, grab rebounds, or pass terribly willingly. Besides his tendency to get nicked up, those are the things which have really held him up in the NBA. Can easily score in the mid to high teens if you give him the ball, but he just doesn't do anything else for you. And hence here he is in a training camp battle with a skinny late first round pick from a small college when he'd be somebody's starting SG right now if he had ever gotten past his scoring-the-rock-is-all-that-matters mentality.
Think he will/should make the team because we are so shy of experience off the bench after you get past Bobby and Tag. But unless he significantly ups his all around game, that late round rookie WILL pass him up sooner or later just by understanding the value of doing the little things that help you win.
Think he will/should make the team because we are so shy of experience off the bench after you get past Bobby and Tag. But unless he significantly ups his all around game, that late round rookie WILL pass him up sooner or later just by understanding the value of doing the little things that help you win.
Everything I've heard indicates Doug will be ready to start the season, so the tussle over minutes will be over who is first on the depth chart to back him up. Alexander does have NBA experience, true. He has also proven himself in the past to be able to score in this league, both points in his favor. I've never been at all impressed with him on the other end of the court though, so Kevin does have an opportunity to earn playing time over him. I think a little healthy competition is good. May the best player win
Martin has a contract. It seems more or less a given that Alexander will get one as well, so the real issue is in use. I suspect Adleman with give them both min at first and then the substution will be situational. If he needs offense, AlexAnder, if he is ;looking to add hustle and boards Martin will get the nod. I tend to agree with Brick in that Martin shows the potential to surpass Alexander, but that might be a bit hasty, as it is also quite possible that Alexander will surpass Alexander this year. He is still young, and his NBA stock has dropped for a variety of reasons including injury and lack of defensive hustle. IF he is smart, he will take this opertunity to do what both JJ and Pealer did, improve theri stock through their play. He could improve his hustle and work on his rebounding. At any rate time will tell...
Well, so what did we learn from Utah:
1) Barnes > Bluthenal. If Blu makes it its not going to be because of anything he's shown on the court in preseason. Barnes is no superstar, but he has a fairly compelte game and knows how to play. Not sure he is talented enough to really earn rotation minutes behind Peja, but you could do worse for a deep bench guy.
2) Minard is just too selfish to play the point in the NBA at this stage. Makes for an interesting problem. It would seem logical that we would want to have a player somewhere on the roster who could play at least a little PG as the #3 emergency backup/garbage time player. Minard made the most sense as a reasonably touted rookie who was a combo guard so he could fill in for injury at either guard spot. But if he can't play point, what then? Keep a third pure point with an undertalented guy like a Wei or a Bland? Three true PG/little guys is always a bit much. But maybe you can do it because of Bobby's ability to swing up to OG. Otherwise a FA? Just settle for Christie as the #3 PG? Problem then is that Bobby probably has to play all the mop up PG minutes. Anyway, Minard has had his opportunities and has not impressed.
1) Barnes > Bluthenal. If Blu makes it its not going to be because of anything he's shown on the court in preseason. Barnes is no superstar, but he has a fairly compelte game and knows how to play. Not sure he is talented enough to really earn rotation minutes behind Peja, but you could do worse for a deep bench guy.
2) Minard is just too selfish to play the point in the NBA at this stage. Makes for an interesting problem. It would seem logical that we would want to have a player somewhere on the roster who could play at least a little PG as the #3 emergency backup/garbage time player. Minard made the most sense as a reasonably touted rookie who was a combo guard so he could fill in for injury at either guard spot. But if he can't play point, what then? Keep a third pure point with an undertalented guy like a Wei or a Bland? Three true PG/little guys is always a bit much. But maybe you can do it because of Bobby's ability to swing up to OG. Otherwise a FA? Just settle for Christie as the #3 PG? Problem then is that Bobby probably has to play all the mop up PG minutes. Anyway, Minard has had his opportunities and has not impressed.
So we have 9 guarantees, as was quoted by Petrie in another thread.
Thats:
Miller
Webber
Stojakovic
Christie
Bibby
Jackson
Songaila
Martin
and ?
Alexander? Minard? Bluth?
I hope its not Bluth as I would take Barnes overhim as the backup SF at this point.
We need another big man, and I wouldnt say any has been overly impressive for any long stretch. The jury's still out, and the same for the guards. I'd like to think they'd stash Minard away, and keep Alexander for experience. I think with Christie and Tag in the shape they've been in, the Kings will hold on to 1 or 2 guys on the IR until December when all contracts are guaranteed. Or at least they shoud.
That puts the lineup like this:
Miller/Tag
Webber/Songaila/Parada or Ferguson*
Stojakovic/Barnes*
Christie/Martin/Alexander*
Bibby/Jackson/Minard*
With either Minard or Alexander likely seeing the IR when Doug is healthy.
Thats:
Miller
Webber
Stojakovic
Christie
Bibby
Jackson
Songaila
Martin
and ?
Alexander? Minard? Bluth?
I hope its not Bluth as I would take Barnes overhim as the backup SF at this point.
We need another big man, and I wouldnt say any has been overly impressive for any long stretch. The jury's still out, and the same for the guards. I'd like to think they'd stash Minard away, and keep Alexander for experience. I think with Christie and Tag in the shape they've been in, the Kings will hold on to 1 or 2 guys on the IR until December when all contracts are guaranteed. Or at least they shoud.
That puts the lineup like this:
Miller/Tag
Webber/Songaila/Parada or Ferguson*
Stojakovic/Barnes*
Christie/Martin/Alexander*
Bibby/Jackson/Minard*
With either Minard or Alexander likely seeing the IR when Doug is healthy.
I've been looking at the current rosters for opposing teams and I have to say that our bench looks weak in comparison to most of the tougher opponents in the league. Memphis, Phoenix, Utah, Denver, San Antonio, Mavs, Detroit and Indy all have great depth imo, especially at the PF/C spot. I think we definatelty need to find some more depth at that the 4 and 5, considering both Webb and Miller are injury prone. Parada, Ferguson and Ford are just not going to cut it, we need proven players.
On a side note, I think Phoenix is going to be a hellavu team this year.
On a side note, I think Phoenix is going to be a hellavu team this year.
I don't think it matters this much. You know why? Because we had one of the greatest bench in the league throughout all these seasons and we did not make it.
On the other hand, teams like the Lakers or the Spurs whose bench was not that great won of those rings.
Succes doesn't depend on how deep your bench is but on how much effort and work Kings will put into their game during this season.
On the other hand, teams like the Lakers or the Spurs whose bench was not that great won of those rings.
Succes doesn't depend on how deep your bench is but on how much effort and work Kings will put into their game during this season.
I would actually say our 4/5 spot is where we have our best depth -- Darius has looked good this camp, and Tag is a proven vet. We have two legit backups, and two 35+ min starters with All-Star potential. Not sure any team in the league can really beat that. Just our injury problems as always that loom.
That's what concerns me. If Webb gets injured again, we still have a capable Songaila in his place, but he will likely get killed by the elite PF's. If Miller gets injured (who seems to breakdown as the playoffs near), we have Otag in the starting lineup (yikes). I suppose if any of our staters go down we are doomed anyway. However, I feel more at ease when I see Bobby coming in for Bibby, KM or Alexader coming in for Christie, than I do about the rest of the bench coming in for our starters that could very likely get injured over the course of the year. Of course, every team in the league has this problem but I feel the deeper teams are better equipped to handle these kind of issues with injuries and such.
no what I'm saying is that, he is a better player. K-Mart has shown he is active, but I havent seen anything from him that seperates him at this point in his game from alot of players, and while you need a energy person with the starters. The Kings are trying to win now, not "develop" players. So no you dont wanna develop players you wanna win. So whoever has more talent will play. Alexander has been injured but he is atalented player he was a lottery selection remember.
So far all I have seen from Alexander is that he can get injured, I would much rather have Martin play hes scored over 10 points in each of the last three games, hs just starting to get comfortable out there, i don't know if its yours blind or if you just have something against Martin but I would much rather play Martin!
I'm not quite sure how you can pan Alexander given that he's a proven vet who we've barely gotten a chance to see play this preseason. Last time we saw him in the NBA (before last season) he was a more than competent NBA player.
And given that Alexander has been in the league a few years we have a better read on what he can contribute in a regular season game. He can score 10pts in his sleep in the regular season -- actually KMart's impressive preseason numbers look quite similar to Courtney's regular season numbers over his career:
Martin preseason:
21.3min 8.3pts (.433, ---, .774) 2.3reb 0.8ast 0.8stl 0.2blk 1.2TO 3.3FL
Alexander career:
21.7min 9.0pts (.422, .339, .813) 2.2reb 1.2ast 0.6stl 0.1blk 1.1TO 2.0FL
Which is not to say that Alexander is necessarily better than Martin at this point. But he's certainly proved he can play at the NBA level a lot more than Martin has. Kevin has a chance to be a good NBA player eventually. Quite possibly better than Courtney. On the other hand Alexander still has a chance to improve as well. He's not that old.
And given that Alexander has been in the league a few years we have a better read on what he can contribute in a regular season game. He can score 10pts in his sleep in the regular season -- actually KMart's impressive preseason numbers look quite similar to Courtney's regular season numbers over his career:
Martin preseason:
21.3min 8.3pts (.433, ---, .774) 2.3reb 0.8ast 0.8stl 0.2blk 1.2TO 3.3FL
Alexander career:
21.7min 9.0pts (.422, .339, .813) 2.2reb 1.2ast 0.6stl 0.1blk 1.1TO 2.0FL
Which is not to say that Alexander is necessarily better than Martin at this point. But he's certainly proved he can play at the NBA level a lot more than Martin has. Kevin has a chance to be a good NBA player eventually. Quite possibly better than Courtney. On the other hand Alexander still has a chance to improve as well. He's not that old.
I dont have anything against Martin but I havent seen this All-NBA player you see, I see a guy who is active and gets after it(thats nothing to sneeze at). Alexander has played in the NBA and he can score. I'm biased cause I like his game, but I'm not blind I think you are a little over-exuberant over Martin, which is cool, but I dont see why you think Alexander cant play. He has done it before. The only reason he isnt in NO is because they got J.r Smith and they have so much money tied into David Wesley. It isnt cause he cant play. His not resigning was the reason why Baron wanted to be traded beacause he worked so hard to get back after his achilles injury and Baron thought he was gonna start with him this yr. Reading the sac-bee column Adleman wants him out there bad.... I think they are gonna keep him up until the Dec 1st to see if he can get healthy if not they'll let him go, but I assure you he can score more than 10pts a game if given the mins Martin is. but i agre with you that Martin may be better off starting now, but when it comes down to it this yr he isnt gonna be a big factor. He isnt doing anything Gerald Wallace wasnt doing out there..I dont know how comfortable he can be this year..this is the NBA..he isnt strong enough yet to be a huge factor.
According to todays Sacramento Bee, young Mr. Alexander might want to get his hurting butt out on the court
http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story/11210908p-12126707c.html
http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story/11210908p-12126707c.html
Martins the player we need out there, I would much rather depend on a guy thats not injured all the time, I meen come on its pre-season and Alexander already has two injuries, Martin has shown up to every game practice and is capable of playing quality minutes for this team, Yah I'm real confident in Martin I can even see him making the all rookie team if hes gets enough minutes, Martin i'm sure of it can score just as much if not more then Alexander in a game, hes proven that by his knack to getting to the line ( 1st Freethrow Attempts, First Free Throws Made for rookies), hes putting up about 9 points a game andhes hardly shooting, hes letting all the other players shoot, now think of when he gets totally comfortable out there, which he is doing more every game and into his actuall rhythm and our offense, the kid is a pure shooter hes gonna put up points for us i meen ( he was the nations second leading scorer last year). Plus he plays defence, and does the little things that Alexander dosen't do, because i've watched Alexander play and all I've seen from him is SCORING,Alexanders been known for not playing defence or doing the little things, plus hes not too friendly with the teamates, Martin crashes the boards and can run the floor like crazy. Martin would be the smarter selection for us this year because we are going to want to keep him around for a long time, He is our rising star, I betcha Alexander won't even be on this squad next year, so why not get just as good production from a player with the same caliber skills and even higher ones in some categorys, and develop him as well.
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Saying Martin's not injured all the time is really getting ridiculous -- he has survived a grand total of 120 minutes of preseason ball. I certainly HOPE that he never gets hurt. But we have absolutely no idea how his body will hold up to the NBA grind.
In any case Martin is in the classic position -- right now he is NOT ready and makes too many mistakes, but if you don't play him he never will get ready. If we have any options at all it would be best for the team, and maybe best for him as well, if we could limit his minutes early on in the season and not have to rely on him. Then as he starts to settle in, we could start upping his minutes accoridng to his development. But that's the ideal. Not sure if we can keep that balance or not.
As an aside -- as I've noted I've liked Martin's willingness to stick his nose in there. That said, he is just as limited as Alexander at this point with his rebounding and playmaking, and he's still hacking the heck out of people and making bad decisions with his shot (forcing the drive primarily) as well. That's all to be expected, and certainly nothing every rookie doesn't go through. BUT it is NOT what you want out of a starter on a top team. We would be far better off if we can hide him with the second unit until he gets it figured out.
In any case Martin is in the classic position -- right now he is NOT ready and makes too many mistakes, but if you don't play him he never will get ready. If we have any options at all it would be best for the team, and maybe best for him as well, if we could limit his minutes early on in the season and not have to rely on him. Then as he starts to settle in, we could start upping his minutes accoridng to his development. But that's the ideal. Not sure if we can keep that balance or not.
As an aside -- as I've noted I've liked Martin's willingness to stick his nose in there. That said, he is just as limited as Alexander at this point with his rebounding and playmaking, and he's still hacking the heck out of people and making bad decisions with his shot (forcing the drive primarily) as well. That's all to be expected, and certainly nothing every rookie doesn't go through. BUT it is NOT what you want out of a starter on a top team. We would be far better off if we can hide him with the second unit until he gets it figured out.
That's 115 more than Courtney managed this year
Just teasing you Brick. He IS pretty tough though. With that frame, he's taken a beating and doesn't seem to mind a bit. Maybe he likes it?
All reports have DC running on treadmill and on schedule for the first game, Adelman's reserved comments notwiststanding. So I think worrying about who is going to start for Doug is a bit, how did you say it....premature?
Just teasing you Brick. He IS pretty tough though. With that frame, he's taken a beating and doesn't seem to mind a bit. Maybe he likes it?All reports have DC running on treadmill and on schedule for the first game, Adelman's reserved comments notwiststanding. So I think worrying about who is going to start for Doug is a bit, how did you say it....premature?