What is up with De'Aaron Fox?

hrdboild said:
I can excuse lazy analysis considering nobody outside of Sacramento really cares about the Kings even though national writers may have to chime in occasionally in the course of doing their jobs. Lazy analysis using numbers to pretend it's more than a knee jerk reaction to 17 games I cannot excuse. This kind of content is insufferable to me. Also, implying that Harrison Barnes is now a high-usage player because he's shooting better percentages is laughable. He's the same guy we've had the last few years and him knocking down more shots doesn't limit anyone else from taking them.

The problem isn't that Fox doesn't know how to play without the ball in his hands. Certainly his poor shooting is a problem which limits other aspects of his offensive game but that's not a new problem and doesn't explain the drop-off from last season. Is this the Tyreke Evans problem all over again? I don't think so. Tyreke was a drive and kick player who had no role when he wasn't attacking the basket. Fox's best shot is a pull up in the lane and he's quite capable of cutting back door and elevating to finish at the basket or creating his midrange off of secondary action. He's a better player when he can make spot-up threes but it wouldn't be a fatal flaw on most rosters and really shouldn't be on ours if the shots were distributed more sensibly...

I think the real issue here is the same issue we've had since day one with Luke Walton... the offense lacks any kind of nuance. It's always been an issue and that's why we look like chumps against any team with a decent scouting department. Most coaches would distribute shots not based on offensive schemes and some ideal concept of spatial positioning but based on actually having players take shots from areas of the floor where they typically make them. What a crazy idea. Moving Haliburton into the starting lineup and Hield out of it just exaggerates the problem because Buddy's shooting helps to opens up the floor for everybody. There is some hope that Davion Mitchell can eventually fill that role though.

We also need to find a way to grab more rebounds. I don't think the roster is as guard heavy as most seem to think it is. We have 4 guards in the regular rotation which is pretty normal and less than a lot of teams are going with right now. The bigger issue is that Holmes is the only big who's actually being productive and he's not even consistently productive. Barnes has been filling in admirably but when he comes out of the game, we have Metu, Len, Thompson, and Bagley and I think those minutes should go to whoever wants to man up and control the glass. Rebounds should be Bagley's bread and butter and maybe with Luke gone he'll finally get a chance to fill that role?

I realize that nobody really cares what I think so this is just words in the wind but there's a lot more wrong with this team than Fox being in a shooting slump. I don't expect firing Luke Walton to fix things but it was at least a step in the right direction. It's worrying that Fox seems to be distancing himself from the team in interviews. I think the players knew Luke was as good as gone weeks ago and our front office continues to have a real problem with dragging their feet instead of taking immediate action. Now that the shoes has finally dropped will that lift some of the weight or just put more pressure on them to perform or get shipped out too? Based on fan reaction it seems to be the later and ya'll will probably get your wish if this attitude continues much longer. We'll be back to the bottom wishing for lottery balls again. Blech.
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I care what you think. Agree re the lack of nuance. It was never that difficult to see what the team was trying to do on each possession. We do have a lack of talent and a coaching change on its own is not going to fix that. But it at least removes the low ceiling imposed by Walton's lack of imagination.
 
kb02 said:
Dude has the worse true shooting percentage of any NBA player averaging more than 18 points per game. The issue Isnt scoring more. It’s scoring more efficiently.
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The issue is if Fox isn't carrying this team, THEY SUCK. It's been that way for awhile now. He's been used differently, it's without argument at this point. Now, he has to be used right, and play right. Once used right, it's certainly on him.
 
SacTownKid said:
The issue is if Fox isn't carrying this team, THEY SUCK. It's been that way for awhile now. He's been used differently, it's without argument at this point. Now, he has to be used right, and play right. Once used right, it's certainly on him.
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He's our franchise player, so we should be dependent on him carrying us. Even for the best teams out there, there aren't going to be very many nights you'll see them win unless their star has a huge game.

But to your point, I do think he's being mis-used a bit. He's a ball dominant PG who's sharing the backcourt with another ball handler. I don't think Fox-Haliburton can work long-term. Fox is pretty much useless without the ball due to his inconsistent 3pt shooting. I also think we have to accept that he may never be a good 3pt shooter. He's still young and has time to improve, but his 3pt shooting and ft numbers inspire no one. He hasn't surpassed 75% ft shooting in any season through 5 years now.

I think Monte needs to decide whether or not Fox is his guy. If he is, then how can you build around him with all the right pieces?

This is why I knew Fox-Luka would've never worked. He's regressed playing next to Haliburton who might be one of the best off-ball PGs in the league.
 
206Fan said:
He's our franchise player, so we should be dependent on him carrying us. Even for the best teams out there, there aren't going to be very many nights you'll see them win unless their star has a huge game.

But to your point, I do think he's being mis-used a bit. He's a ball dominant PG who's sharing the backcourt with another ball handler. I don't think Fox-Haliburton can work long-term. Fox is pretty much useless without the ball due to his inconsistent 3pt shooting. I also think we have to accept that he may never be a good 3pt shooter. He's still young and has time to improve, but his 3pt shooting and ft numbers inspire no one. He hasn't surpassed 75% ft shooting in any season through 5 years now.

I think Monte needs to decide whether or not Fox is his guy. If he is, then how can you build around him with all the right pieces?

This is why I knew Fox-Luka would've never worked. He's regressed playing next to Haliburton who might be one of the best off-ball PGs in the league.
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They aren't perfect, and yes flawed in the ways you say, but I think they can to some extent. You use them both for the strengths they do have. Haliburton off the dribble as a shooter is underwhelming, not terrible, because on catch and shoot he's dang good.
 
Fox ain’t that guy man we need to grab Ingram hell Simmons at this point but we’d need to find a scorer if we traded him for Simmons
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
I think McNair would have been hammered on, if he traded him this past summer. At this point now, I think more and more fans and analysts are now coming around to the idea of it
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He certainly would have. Dude took the easier path. Contrast that with Hinkie, who traded Jrue when he took over.

In poker terms, Hinkie will bluff, play tight sometimes. loose other times, but mostly aggressive most of the time. McNair is the dude who rarely plays hands and when he does, u know he has a good hand. Over the long term, McNair will maybe win one tourney his entire life while Hinkie will win 4, but is likely to go bankrupt in between the tourney wins. I prefer execs who go big or get fired.
 
Vivek wont allow a trade of Fox without getting a perceived star coming back.

I can see us somehow ending up with Westbrook.
 
Joshoua said:
Philadelphia fans don’t even want to trade Ben for him now
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Yeah, but that's fans. Fox was damaged by Waltons scheme more than anyone. This is why they have to wait. In one game alone under Gentry we saw usage that should balance things out if Fox isn't totally mentally out yet. They are clearly rattling his cage to see how he responds which is a gamble but I believe Fox will find a way. He's not a soft weenie. He's not a heartless alpha either, but a ton of good/great players aren't.
 
Folsomkingsfan said:
Don’t blame them. Simmons is a liability shooting for sure, but he is still a top tier passer and defender in the league. What does Fox excel at?
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Seriously? He's the fastest ball handler in the league. He's also very difficult to stay in front of one-on-one even when he doesn't have a running start because of his side-to-side agility. He's an instant fast break when we do manage to secure defensive rebounds and he demands double teams or at least the other team's defense needs to game plan to stop him by packing the paint. I get that he's been playing poorly this season and we haven't managed to win with him leading the team even when he was putting up All Star level numbers last season but that doesn't mean he's not elite at anything.
 
Albatros said:
Vivek wont allow a trade of Fox without getting a perceived star coming back.

I can see us somehow ending up with Westbrook.
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Oh no, I didn’t even think of this, but now I know in my heart of hearts that there’s no way this DOESN’T happen.
 
SacTownKid said:
Yeah, but that's fans. Fox was damaged by Waltons scheme more than anyone. This is why they have to wait. In one game alone under Gentry we saw usage that should balance things out if Fox isn't totally mentally out yet. They are clearly rattling his cage to see how he responds which is a gamble but I believe Fox will find a way. He's not a soft weenie. He's not a heartless alpha either, but a ton of good/great players aren't.
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No, Fox was damaged by Monte systematically trading away our better shooters for “defenders” who can’t shoot. Fox’s strengths are getting in the lane and drawing help and then kicking it out.

Beli and Bogi were subpar perimeter defenders but they could shoot and defenders couldn’t sag off them. Now teams can sag off Fox and take away what he does well.
 
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sactowndog said:
No, Fox was damaged by Monte systematically trading away our better shooters for “defenders” who can’t shoot. Fox’s strengths are getting in the lane and drawing help and then kicking it out.

Beli and Bogi were subpar perimeter defenders but they could shoot and defenders couldn’t sag off them. Now teams can sag off Fox and take away what he does well.

team 3 point shooting by year
This year: 33.3% on 35 apg
Last year: 36.4% on 33 apg
previous year: 36.4% on 35 apg
Vlades last year: 37.8% on on 30 apg

Monte maybe gets a B in drafting ( if he got us a forward I would give him an A) but he gets an F in roster construction.
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No one damaged him he was never as good as people on here claimed, that half a successful season the Kings had under Joeger was because the veterans were shooting and playing out of their minds impact wise. The moment Shumpert got traded and Bjelica cooled off and the Kings got good old Barnes in here it went to crap (but they just needed more time right?). I've said it before the list of excuses for Fox is beyond endless.

It's hard to build around a average to below average IQ player who does not possess an elite motor nor is a great shooter (its the new ball yawn). If Fox can reach a prime Dragic or Dennis Schroder level I will be surprised.
 
sactowndog said:
No, Fox was damaged by Monte systematically trading away our better shooters for “defenders” who can’t shoot. Fox’s strengths are getting in the lane and drawing help and then kicking it out.

Beli and Bogi were subpar perimeter defenders but they could shoot and defenders couldn’t sag off them. Now teams can sag off Fox and take away what he does well.
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True, but the nail was Walton going back to using things like weave plays and high post sets that really made almost everyone look as bad as possible game to game.
 
serbiangoat said:
No one damaged him he was never as good as people on here claimed, that half a successful season the Kings had under Joeger was because the veterans were shooting and playing out of their minds impact wise. The moment Shumpert got traded and Bjelica cooled off and the Kings got good old Barnes in here it went to crap (but they just needed more time right?). I've said it before the list of excuses for Fox is beyond endless.

It's hard to build around a average to below average IQ player who does not possess an elite motor nor is a great shooter (its the new ball yawn). If Fox can reach a prime Dragic or Dennis Schroder level I will be surprised.
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Individually Fox was terrific last season. Whether success team wise comes from it will be determined by either time, strategy, and/or the talent around him. The questions being posed lately, as is the case in this thread, is largely an individual one.
 
SacTownKid said:
Individually Fox was terrific last season. Whether success team wise comes from it will be determined by either time, strategy, and/or the talent around him. The questions being posed lately, as is the case in this thread, is largely an individual one.
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He was so terrific individually that the past two seasons prior to this one the Kings are a 500. team (or very close to it) while starting Cojo and Delon Wright.
 
serbiangoat said:
He was so terrific individually that the past two seasons prior to this one the Kings are a 500. team (or very close to it) while starting Cojo and Delon Wright.
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In his brief stint with Sac, Delon Wright posted a 46/40/83 line while contributing boards, assists, and steals and playing very good defense. Maybe I'm missing your point.
 
sactowndog said:
No, Fox was damaged by Monte systematically trading away our better shooters for “defenders” who can’t shoot. Fox’s strengths are getting in the lane and drawing help and then kicking it out.

Beli and Bogi were subpar perimeter defenders but they could shoot and defenders couldn’t sag off them. Now teams can sag off Fox and take away what he does well.
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See the bolded parts above. That is absolutely not a Fox strength. Dudes first and second instinct is to penetrate and score. The few times he does pass, the teammate is almost always on his left, where his dominant hand is. Fox rarely drives and passes to his right side and he rarely diversifies his passing (it’s almost always a mid level, one handed line drive; no bounce pass, no lobs, no touch, rarely with both hands).
 
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From Amick’s article:

“The speed that made him so special isn’t there, nor is the poise or execution when it matters most. The leadership questions that already dogged him before this season, it’s safe to say, are only growing louder now. And his blasé’ assessments of it all in media sessions, meanwhile, have been uninspiring in the kind of way that only intensifies the long-standing debate about his makeup.”

https://theathletic.com/2973455/202...nge-may-be-needed/?source=user_shared_article
 
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