What Has Petrie Learned?

[Kingster]

I know I'll get a lot of cracks on this one, but seriously, the guy has gotten his teeth kicked in and been boot stomped for half the year. No way did he have this expectation for this team. Other than realizing he has to trade two or three guys, do you think he's had some kind of epiphany on what kind of players to draft, what kind of players to get in FA and how much money to pay them, or anything else for that matter? I keep wondering if in his talent evaluation he's going to put more emphasis on athleticism and less on skill. If there's anything this team has shown, it's that it's overweight skill, underweight athleticism, and that has a lot to do with why they are getting killed.

 

[Bricklayer]

Unfortunately its just as likely that what Geoff takes from this is "gee, I shouldn't have traded Bibby and Artest, we could have maybe been .500!!".

People have a tendency to learn the lessons they want to learn.

 

[discocricket]

I'm not sure what kind of expectation he could have realistically had, I mean I guess I expected us to win 25 or so games and we're on pace for what, 16? Let's hope he's had the foresight to stop using the damn MLE on power forwards and point guards, though I fear for the summer if we don't land Rubio.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

do you think he's had some kind of epiphany on what kind of players to draft, what kind of players to get in FA and how much money to pay them, or anything else for that matter? I keep wondering if in his talent evaluation he's going to put more emphasis on athleticism and less on skill. If there's anything this team has shown, it's that it's overweight skill, underweight athleticism, and that has a lot to do with why they are getting killed.

I don't think that's our problem. We need a star player. But it's not our lack of athletes that is hurting us.

Even championship caliber teams have important players who are more skilled than they are special athletes. The Lakers (Gasol, Fisher, Sasha), Magic (Hedo, and to a lesser degree Rashard), Rockets (Yao, Scola, Battier), Cavs (Big Z, Varajeo, Wally, Sasha).

Meanwhile, there are plenty of teams full of athletes that aren't competitive or mediorce - Grizzlies (Gay, Mayo, Warrick, Arthur, Lowry, Conley), Wizards (Butler, Jamison, McGee, McGuire, Young, Critterton), Bobcats (Okafor, Wallace, Felton, Augustine), Warriors (Jackson, Ellis, Randolph, Wright, Crawford, Azubuike, Maggette), etc.

I'm not advocating drafting unathletic players, but I don't think it's fair to say Petrie overwights skill, he just doesn't overweight athleticism. Heck, we have some athletes on our team (Salmons, Martin, JT, Brown, Green) but we just aren't very good.

 

[Showtime]

1. He didn't fire Rick.

2. Many issues with this team isn't his fault.

 

[Nighthawk1]

HOpefully he's learned by now that he needs to draft some players with the will to WIN. That have heart and fire - that won't quit on the team. That's mainly what we lack currently, no leadership, when we watch the team we don't see many of them as having heart of having that drive to win. We need those types of players again or we'll sit at the bottom of the NBA for awhile again

 

[Bricklayer]

1. He didn't fire Rick.

2. Many issues with this team isn't his fault.

He is the GM. Every player here is because he brought them here.

 

[Larry89]

Well he has learned that the Webber trade was a mistake, hopefully..

He has learned that his late 1st round draft pick Quincy Douby was a bad one... he hopefully has also learned that we are truly rebuilding now..

 

[Showtime]

He is the GM. Every player here is because he brought them here.

Without getting into an in depth breakdown, a lot of what is wrong is a direct result of Webber's knee.

 

[Bricklayer]

Without getting into an in depth breakdown, a lot of what is wrong is a direct result of Webber's knee.

Some of what is wrong is our GM's response to Webber's knee.
But 5+ years after the event even that is wearing thin.

 

[Showtime]

Some of what is wrong is our GM's response to Webber's knee.
But 5+ years after the event even that is wearing thin.

Well, it's nearing it's end. Miller and Bibby were paid as key pieces on a contender. Webber went down, and then the Peja/Bibby/Miller core went on to like a 42-15 record. That was a sign at the time they could win without Webber. Webber returned, which brought up new issues about his new liabilities and contract. That, along with their success without him, lead to his trade. Things didn't work out with that Peja/Bibby/Miller core, and Peja was moved (along with his back problems). They made the playoffs with Artest and things seemed to be looking up. Boom, Rick was fired by the Magoofs.

Webber's injury ended that team prematurely, so guys like Miller and Bibby who got big deals for being key players on a contender became overpaid players. Once Rick was fired, the team declined, and they were now parts that needed to be moved for salary reasons. The team has really only been rebuilding for 3 years. They tried to make it work with Artest and Rick, but the turning point was firing Rick, which wasn't GP's call. So I know they have only been trying to rebuild for a relatively short time, and I know if they get a good coach, this team will be good in year or two.

 

[beb0p]

By now he should have learned that being without Rick Adelman is like Stockton without Malone.

And the fact that you can't put four poor defenders together and expect them to mold into a good defensive team.

 

[bajaden]

Webber's injury ended that team prematurely, so guys like Miller and Bibby who got big deals for being key players on a contender became overpaid players. Once Rick was fired, the team declined, and they were now parts that needed to be moved for salary reasons. The team has really only been rebuilding for 3 years. They tried to make it work with Artest and Rick, but the turning point was firing Rick, which wasn't GP's call. So I know they have only been trying to rebuild for a relatively short time, and I know if they get a good coach, this team will be good in year or two.

The one thing that I would argue is that the team has been rebuilding for three years. They should have been rebuilding for three years, but they've actually been rebuilding last season and this one. There are still moves to be made that should have been made some time ago. I'm not laying it all on Petrie, but he is the GM and, as they say, the buck stops there.

Everyone could see that what was left of the core, with Bibby, Miller and Peja wasn't going anywhere. All the trade for Artest did was prolong the agony, and the rebuild. Do I think ownership meddled in some of this? Sure I do. We can get into the blame game if we want. But the result won't change. The future is going to be interesting and the decisions crucial. This is a chance for Petrie to prove he's really one of the best GM's in the league. So far its been like a dark comedy. Where's the popcorn?

 

[bajaden]

By now he should have learned that being without Rick Adelman is like Stockton without Malone.

I think he knew that already. I'm pretty sure Petrie had nothing to do with Rick's firing, considering he quit his job in Portland because of Rick's firing up there.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Ive said this a few times on here, but i'll say it again - It doesnt matter who fired Rick Adelman. I'll agree that Adelman didnt really need to get fired when he did, BUT he would have been fired by now anyways. This team was on the decline, we couldnt really sign anybody to change all that. Petrie couldnt do anything to improve this roster and Rick couldnt do anything to turn the roster we had into a playoff team. Things happened how they happened and that was that, Personally, Im glad he didnt have to coach through the last three season, he deserves better than this.

 

[Showtime]

Ive said this a few times on here, but i'll say it again - It doesnt matter who fired Rick Adelman.

It does when one guys is getting blamed for things that weren't all his doing.

I'll agree that Adelman didnt really need to get fired when he did, BUT he would have been fired by now anyways. This team was on the decline, we couldnt really sign anybody to change all that.

I disagree. Rick got a team to the playoffs, whereas Mussleman had virtually the same squad (with a much improved Martin) and couldn't make the playoffs. I don't think the kings would have been this bad with Rick.

Petrie couldnt do anything to improve this roster and Rick couldnt do anything to turn the roster we had into a playoff team.

Rick did exactly that when Artest came over. He made the playoffs, then was fired.

 

[fnordius]

What goes on in Geoff's head?

I guess you could sum it up this way. It's a lot of noise, mostly white noise, like when a hen oodles -- wow, lays an egg -- and it makes a sound like it made a meteor.

In other words, I have no freaking clue.

 

[Arkitect]

I disagree. Rick got a team to the playoffs, whereas Mussleman had virtually the same squad (with a much improved Martin) and couldn't make the playoffs. I don't think the kings would have been this bad with Rick.

People always forget Bonzi was on the team that year as well. In fact, for the first half of the year before he got injured he was the best player on the team (Not to mention a phenomenal rebounder). Also, Adelman looked like he had lost the team until the Artest trade. Needless to say, their is a good chance that if Adelman had coached the next year we still would not have made the playoffs especially with the loss of Bonzi. In retrospect it was probably good for Rick Adelman to get the axe when he did, at least for Rick's career. Now he is coaching a contending team. We are, on the other hand, competing to be the worst team in the league with no end in site.

 

[gunks]

It does when one guys is getting blamed for things that weren't all his doing.



I disagree. Rick got a team to the playoffs, whereas Mussleman had virtually the same squad (with a much improved Martin) and couldn't make the playoffs. I don't think the kings would have been this bad with Rick.



Rick did exactly that when Artest came over. He made the playoffs, then was fired.

Muss didnt have Bonzi...Another underappreciated Kings player. Wells was beastly in his season with us. He averaged 14/8 and 2 steals from the SG position. Dude was a 6'5 PF. Bonzi + Ron >>>>> Martin + Ron

That being said, I'm not trying to argue with you about Rick getting poor treatment and I'm not trying to say that Muss is even close to being in his league as a coach. Just giving Bonzi his props for his last season before his career spiraled downward.

On topic: Who knows what Petrie is thinking, probably something along the lines of "I hope there's a guy who can play multiple positions in this draft. Or at least a sweet shooting undersized SG that we can convert to PG."

 

[Showtime]

I am well aware of Bonzi not being on the team (might that have been different with Rick staying?), but both Garcia and Martin were coming into their own, and I think those additions could have made up for the loss of Wells on those teams.

 

[kennadog]

Not only did Webber's knee happen, but GP had the marching orders from the Maloofs to get one of the highest payrolls in the NBA down below the luxury cap. We finally made it under the salary cap when we got rid of Brian Skinner.

I can't imagine it's easy to do a lot to improve a team when the first priority is to cut a lot of salary.

Having said that, yes GP's made mistakes. I think this year and next are the big test for him.

 

[SacTownKid]

Unfortunately its just as likely that what Geoff takes from this is "gee, I shouldn't have traded Bibby and Artest, we could have maybe been .500!!".

People have a tendency to learn the lessons they want to learn.

Couldn't be....just couldn't. I hope.

 

[oaklandking]

He will work it all out i mean come on he put THE team together

 

[AriesMar27]

penny pinching is what killed this team... the maloofs wanted a lower salaries but still wanted to win with bad draft picks. thats like that mercury insurance commercial where the guy goes to the dry cleaner and asks to have his shirt starched and unstarched... its impossible.... that and they were unwilling to take any chances with the roster. the artest trade was low risk since artest had no real trade value due to that damn brawl. they knew what they were getting into with the webber trade, lets not kid ourselves. the current housing market is a prime example of that. they thought that they could flip thomas, corliss and skinner into something usefull. they couldnt.....

the kings and lakers have been rebuilding for the same amount of time and the kings havent accomplished anything. they both started in the 2004 offseason, the lakers gambled and traded shaq and the kings ended up trading webber during the season for scraps. granted the lakers have kobe to build around but still... they didnt make the playoffs that first year and the kings did. the 2nd year both teams did and they both lost in the 1st round...

that offseason is where the kings messed up. they fired adelman and drafted douby... if they had kept adelman, resigned vlade(to a small, small contract) and drafted a real pg (there were tons to pick from, farmar, rondo, sergio) maybe this team would be so bad. hawes and thompson are cool but douby is where we messed up. maybe its pride or something but for the last 3 or 4 year the best possible trading partners for the kings have been the lakers. they needed a center so they traded butler for kwame, brad miller would have been the perfect center for their offense and butler would have been the perfect small forward for ours. they wanted artest for odom, give them artest for odom. i would rather have odom and butler than miller and what is now greene and bobby jackson. the lakers wouldnt have gasol right now and they would still be 1st round exit bottom dwellers. we wouldnt be contenders but would be a formidable team.

im not saying that i want our team to be the current (or past) laker team but the options that were there are much better than the kings sitting on their butts and signing rahim, salmons and moore... if we werent lucky enough to still draft hawes we could have signed a center for mle or traded odom, martin or butler for a center. nene was available at the time before the season started and he got hurt in the 1st game of the season.

we had the opportunities to be a much better team but they decided to sit on their asses and do nothing. what was the point of this thread again?

 

[kennadog]

penny pinching is what killed this team... the maloofs wanted a lower salaries but still wanted to win with bad draft picks.

Personally, i think Quincy has been the only bad draft pick in recent years. Who do you think was a bad pick?

the kings and lakers have been rebuilding for the same amount of time and the kings havent accomplished anything. they both started in the 2004 offseason, the lakers gambled and traded shaq and the kings ended up trading webber during the season for scraps. granted the lakers have kobe to build around but still... they didnt make the playoffs that first year and the kings did. the 2nd year both teams did and they both lost in the 1st round...

There is no way you can ignore that as a key factor that makes a huge difference in any comparison. Lakers have way more money, too.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Personally, i think Quincy has been the only bad draft pick in recent years. Who do you think was a bad pick?

There is no way you can ignore that as a key factor that makes a huge difference in any comparison. Lakers have way more money, too.

He might have meant low draft picks since we were a mediocre team and getting a lot of 10-20 picks.

As for the Lakers, you are right, that is not a fair comparison at all. First, with the markets, comparing our rebuilding plans to LA or NY will never be accurate. There's a draw to those cities that Sac will not be able to match. Also, they still had a top 3 player entering his prime and another top 3 superstar at the end of his prime to deal. We had one superstar with a knee so bad we couldn't trade him for anything but scraps.

 

[swisshh]

Petrie had two brilliant years that he has lived off of. The initial lockout year moves of course, and the off-season in which he got Christie and Bobby, to address defensive needs.

But Petrie and his philosophy have flaws that those involved with are completely blind to. The Kings have been a poor defensive and poor rebounding team for years. You will always have this problem when you favor big men who do best and are most comfortable working outside the paint. I don't want coachie back, I want real point guard play. I don't want another scorer drafted. I don't want a slow team that dreams of running.

By the by, the decline started when Petrie and Rick decided to shorten the bench and remove that strength for players like Brad. The second tier of downfall started with Rick going with Webber and the third fatal blow came with the Maloofs cheapening out on the roster, which lead to the loss of more depth and vital leadership. You can perhaps claim the Maloofs started that with the Barry deal, but it really became obvious in the off-seasons after that.

 

[AriesMar27]

Personally, i think Quincy has been the only bad draft pick in recent years. Who do you think was a bad pick?

There is no way you can ignore that as a key factor that makes a huge difference in any comparison. Lakers have way more money, too.

more money but they still have the same cap restrictions, they arent the yankees.... kobe by himself isnt enough, look at those first 3 years without shaq... 1st round exit... just like mcgrady and vince...

 

[Widowmaker2k]

He is the GM. Every player here is because he brought them here.

Not that I want to cause trouble, but playing Devil's advocate, wouldn't you say that the Maloofs, as owners (and relatively meddlesome ones at that), play a role in player acquisitions? I don't want to give Geoff a 'get out of jail free card' or anything, but from a pragmatic point of view, at the end of the day, who has the last word? Petrie or the Maloofs?

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

The '03-'04 and '04-'05 seasons were mistakes. We should have been thinking rebuild from the day after Webber went down to knee injury. '05-'06 was when Petrie first signaled the beginning of the rebuild by moving Peja, and starting the Artest era. The Musselman year '06-'07 was the Maloofs believing they still had a chance to be competitive as long as they had a shiny new expensive coach that they could relate to and do lunch with. I think in 07'-08' even the Maloofs had gotten a clue, and wanted to rebuild, starting with a young cheap coach in Theus. Problem was that Theus was coaching for his own career W-L percentage. Finally we get a somebody in Natt with no head coaching future that's willing (and quite able) to get the lins against other bad teams.

That's our history according to me. So I give Petrie blame for 2 bad years. Granted, there's a lot of bad salary picked up in those 2 bad years, but he's also made some fairly great draft picks in the whole Post-Elite era (excluding Douby).