We need a long lanky defensive CENTER!

[NoBonus]

I'm really not getting my hopes up for an "awesome" backup center when it's our starting 5 that needs to be addressed. However, I like the recent Fabricio Oberto rumors, but doubt we'll be in play given the Kings penny-pinching habits of late.

O Boy! Oberto!

At this point, the Kings roster looks like this:

PG: Evans, Udrih, Rodriguez
SG: Martin, Garcia
SF: Nocioni, Casspi, Greene
PF: JT, May, Brockman (hopefully), Thomas
C: Hawes

I do not think the Kings need to get a big Center to block shots. This team is going to have to play team D, there is no other way around it, if they want to succeed. I would think the Kings would be looking at centers, but summer league was no indication of that with Bryant being the only center and getting no PT. Maybe they are looking at a trade for a big backup... trade K9's expiring (one of the most valuable players on the Kings this season) for someone or something... but, ultimately, the NBA game is not about big, dominant centers anymore (especially considering there is about 2 in the league total), and Kings fans especially should see that. Remember Vlade and Miller? Shot blockers? Defensive powerhouses? Nope. Did the Kings win? YES.

 

[fnordius]

Remember Vlade and Miller? Shot blockers? Defensive powerhouses? Nope. Did the Kings win? YES.

Vlade was a better shotblocker than anyone on the current roster. I remember that our best defensive year ever was with Vlade + Keon, and Keon was a better shot blocker than Vlade. Our defensive stats have spiralled downwards ever since.

Vlade + Miller were good for 9-10 assists a game (plus another 4-5 from Webber), with a more than acceptable A/TO ratio, so we could still win with them by sticking to a very high ball movement, Princetonian sort of game. Win it practically on offense alone. However...

2003-4 stats-----assists/game-----TO/game----assist/TO
Webber: -------------4.6--------------------2.6-------------1.8
Divac:----------------5.3---------------------2.1-------------2.5
Miller:-----------------4.3---------------------2.0-------------2.15
total--------------------14.2-------------------6.7------------2.12

2008-9 stats------assists/game-----TO/game-----assist/TO
Hawes:--------------1.9---------------------2.1-------------0.9
Thompson:---------1.1---------------------1.8-------------0.6
total-------------------3.0---------------------3.9-------------0.77

If we're going to try a repeat of that approach, we're short a lot more than a defensive center, and have a long way to go.

 

[Kingster]

Vlade was a better shotblocker than anyone on the current roster. I remember that our best defensive year ever was with Vlade + Keon, and Keon was a better shot blocker than Vlade. Our defensive stats have spiralled downwards ever since.

Vlade + Miller were good for 9-10 assists a game (plus another 4-5 from Webber), with a more than acceptable A/TO ratio, so we could still win with them by sticking to a very high ball movement, Princetonian sort of game. Win it practically on offense alone. However...

2003-4 stats-----assists/game-----TO/game----assist/TO
Webber: -------------4.6--------------------2.6-------------1.8
Divac:----------------5.3---------------------2.1-------------2.5
Miller:-----------------4.3---------------------2.0-------------2.15
total--------------------14.2-------------------6.7------------2.12

2008-9 stats------assists/game-----TO/game-----assist/TO
Hawes:--------------1.9---------------------2.1-------------0.9
Thompson:---------1.1---------------------1.8-------------0.6
total-------------------3.0---------------------3.9-------------0.77

If we're going to try a repeat of that approach, we're short a lot more than a defensive center, and have a long way to go.

At least show the Vlade stats (and the Miller stats) when they were 21 years old. You want a 21 year old to play like a 28 year old. Good luck...

 

[AleksandarN]

What really gets me is we could of had that shotblocking center this year if we would of traded for Darko. Of all the trades and signing this year Darko would have been the most realistic and easiest to get. We could of traded KT for him and not lose a thing. That is what really bugs me. Hopefully we can get him year. I think Darko is the missing big man we need.

 

[fnordius]

At least show the Vlade stats (and the Miller stats) when they were 21 years old. You want a 21 year old to play like a 28 year old. Good luck...

But you were talking about when we were winning with Vlade and Brad, so I was comparing to when we had Vlade and Brad, not comparing with when they were rookies playing somewhere else.

That would be kind of meaningless, Miller's assists almost doubled when he came to Sac, because we played a totally different sort of game than the teams he'd been on. And the 21 year old Brad was not even in the NBA yet. At 22-23, he was still only getting 12 minutes of PT a game, so his stats were insignificant.

Vlade played for teams (e.g., Lakers) which liked more ball handling by their bigs, but he turned 22 halfway through his rookie year, nowadays a 22 year old typically has 2-3 years of NBA experience. At 21, Vlade was barely getting 10 minutes/game of garbage time himself.

Webber, on the other hand, got plenty of PT, entered the draft at 20, and played for a team with good ball movement, so he makes a pretty reasonable standard for comparison.

Partially relevant or totally not, here they are...

-------------------------assists------TO------assist/TO
Rookie Vlade:------0.9----------1.3
Rookie Brad:-------0.6-----------0.8
Rookie Chris-------3.6-----------2.7
total--------------------5.1-----------4.8--------1.1

Rookie Spencer---0.6-----------0.8
Rookie Jason------1.1-----------1.8
total--------------------1.7-----------2.6--------0.65

We still don't come out looking good. And, if what you want is winning like we did with the 28 year old Brad and the 35 year old Vlade, does that mean we have to suck for at least another 6 or 8 years while JT and Hawes work on their skills? If so, I would say that does nothing to refute my statement that we have a long road ahead of us (if we're taking the Princetonian route).

 

[bajaden]

But you were talking about when we were winning with Vlade and Brad, so I was comparing to when we had Vlade and Brad, not comparing with when they were rookies playing somewhere else.

That would be kind of meaningless, Miller's assists almost doubled when he came to Sac, because we played a totally different sort of game than the teams he'd been on. And the 21 year old Brad was not even in the NBA yet. At 22-23, he was still only getting 12 minutes of PT a game, so his stats were insignificant.

Vlade played for teams (e.g., Lakers) which liked more ball handling by their bigs, but he turned 22 halfway through his rookie year, nowadays a 22 year old typically has 2-3 years of NBA experience. At 21, Vlade was barely getting 10 minutes/game of garbage time himself.

Webber, on the other hand, got plenty of PT, entered the draft at 20, and played for a team with good ball movement, so he makes a pretty reasonable standard for comparison.

Partially relevant or totally not, here they are...

-------------------------assists------TO------assist/TO
Rookie Vlade:------0.9----------1.3
Rookie Brad:-------0.6-----------0.8
Rookie Chris-------3.6-----------2.7
total--------------------5.1-----------4.8--------1.1

Rookie Spencer---0.6-----------0.8
Rookie Jason------1.1-----------1.8
total--------------------1.7-----------2.6--------0.65

We still don't come out looking good. And, if what you want is winning like we did with the 28 year old Brad and the 35 year old Vlade, does that mean we have to suck for at least another 6 or 8 years while JT and Hawes work on their skills? If so, I would say that does nothing to refute my statement that we have a long road ahead of us (if we're taking the Princetonian route).

Looking at your stats, I agree that it doesn't look as good as having Vlade, Webb, or Miller. There is the human element and the variables that come from what team each player played on and how many minutes each player received. Thats why its always easier to compare players at the end of their careers than at the beginning. Lets just say that its not an exact science.

Its in our nature to compare new players to older more established ones. Sort of as a measuring stick. Not really fair to the new player. It, in some ways robs him vicariously of his indivuality. I plead guilty of doing so myself all the time. I really don't have a point here, other than every player will make his own footprint, and some will be bigger than others. Some will be lucky enough to play on a team that fits their skills and others may flounder for a while somewhere where they don't really fit. Or have a coach whose personality doesn't match up well with the players.

But when you get lucky, and there is an element of luck, you end up with a center staring at the end of his career not too far down the road in Vlade. A PF thats bounced around the league because of bad off court decisions in C.Webb. A SF that just got off the boat from europe, but who can shoot from anywhere on the floor in Peja. A shooting guard who really is a pt guard in a shooting guards body, and who really isn't that good of a shot in Christie. And a point guard whose really a shooting guard in a point guards body, who really can shoot, in Bibby.

That doesn't sound like a championship team on paper. But it almost was. So you never know when the worm will turn again.

 

[AriesMar27]

Looking at your stats, I agree that it doesn't look as good as having Vlade, Webb, or Miller. There is the human element and the variables that come from what team each player played on and how many minutes each player received. Thats why its always easier to compare players at the end of their careers than at the beginning. Lets just say that its not an exact science.

Its in our nature to compare new players to older more established ones. Sort of as a measuring stick. Not really fair to the new player. It, in some ways robs him vicariously of his indivuality. I plead guilty of doing so myself all the time. I really don't have a point here, other than every player will make his own footprint, and some will be bigger than others. Some will be lucky enough to play on a team that fits their skills and others may flounder for a while somewhere where they don't really fit. Or have a coach whose personality doesn't match up well with the players.

But when you get lucky, and there is an element of luck, you end up with a center staring at the end of his career not too far down the road in Vlade. A PF thats bounced around the league because of bad off court decisions in C.Webb. A SF that just got off the boat from europe, but who can shoot from anywhere on the floor in Peja. A shooting guard who really is a pt guard in a shooting guards body, and who really isn't that good of a shot in Christie. And a point guard whose really a shooting guard in a point guards body, who really can shoot, in Bibby.

That doesn't sound like a championship team on paper. But it almost was. So you never know when the worm will turn again.

thats why we need to trade one of our young bigs for a superstar before teams realize that they arent that good.... we can have that webber and vlade match up if we trade thompson and or hawes. we have a big enough expiring contract in thomas to make a move.

 

[kingsnation]

I'm really not getting my hopes up for an "awesome" backup center when it's our starting 5 that needs to be addressed. However, I like the recent Fabricio Oberto rumors, but doubt we'll be in play given the Kings penny-pinching habits of late.

Oberto signed with the Wizards.

..

Unfortunately, IMO.

 

[fnordius]

thats why we need to trade one of our young bigs for a superstar before teams realize that they arent that good.... we can have that webber and vlade match up if we trade thompson and or hawes. we have a big enough expiring contract in thomas to make a move.

There's no PF in the NBA right now who can match Webber's stats. Pau Gasol is a poor man's Webber. Boris Diaw is a bankrupt man's Webber. And that's about it.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/stati...=pg&qual=true&season=2009&seasontype=2&pos=pf

I don't think we'll be getting either one.

 

[AriesMar27]

There's no PF in the NBA right now who can match Webber's stats. Pau Gasol is a poor man's Webber. Boris Diaw is a bankrupt man's Webber. And that's about it.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/stati...=pg&qual=true&season=2009&seasontype=2&pos=pf

I don't think we'll be getting either one.

okay, webber was really good but its unfair to base your stats on assists... i couldnt think of a pf that plays in the same or similar offense to webber except maybe pau. but he is taking a backseat to kobe, the offense isnt run through pau. the lakers would probably be better if they did use pau as their number 1 option. diaw could do it but he isnt even in the same class as webber.

 

[Rookie]

thats why we need to trade one of our young bigs for a superstar before teams realize that they arent that good.... we can have that webber and vlade match up if we trade thompson and or hawes. we have a big enough expiring contract in thomas to make a move.

Trade young potential for a proven superstar?

You do realize what you want is to trade coal for diamond right?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

okay, webber was really good but its unfair to base your stats on assists... i couldnt think of a pf that plays in the same or similar offense to webber except maybe pau. but he is taking a backseat to kobe, the offense isnt run through pau. the lakers would probably be better if they did use pau as their number 1 option...

WHAT?

Please tell me that I'm reading this completely out of context, and you're only speaking in terms of assist production from the PF position, and nothing more. AND NOTHING MORE.

 

[AriesMar27]

WHAT?

Please tell me that I'm reading this completely out of context, and you're only speaking in terms of assist production from the PF position, and nothing more. AND NOTHING MORE.

more or less, the lakers get better ball movement when the offense is run through pau.... i watched all of their games last season, the minute they go straight to pau the entire team plays well. he gets everyone involved because they know that they dont have to stand still and wait for kobe to be doubled. pau will find them, when pau plays with their bench players they all have their best games. famar cuts to the basket and so does sasha as opposed to waiting behind the line for the open 3 when kobe has the ball.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

So, you're saying that the gd lakers, a team that just won the Championship with Bryant as their number-one option, would be better if Gasol were their number-one option? Seriously?

Exactly how can you improve on championship? There's nowhere to go from the top but down.

 

[AriesMar27]

So, you're saying that the gd lakers, a team that just won the Championship with Bryant as their number-one option, would be better if Gasol were their number-one option? Seriously?

Exactly how can you improve on championship? There's nowhere to go from the top but down.

im aware of that... but throughout the entire regular season and the post season the lakers played their best when pau was being assertive on offense and defense. i cant think of a game that the lakers lost where pau scored more than 20 points. if howard could make a freethrow they wouldve lost in the finals with kobe bryant as their number 1 option. luckily for kobe howard cant shoot, we'd be talking about how dwight is the next shaq because he beat the lakers and how kobe only has rings because of shaq.

but thats not what happened, howard cant shoot and the lakers won.

okay there were a few games where he scored more than 20 and lost but its rare....

 

[Kingster]

But you were talking about when we were winning with Vlade and Brad, so I was comparing to when we had Vlade and Brad, not comparing with when they were rookies playing somewhere else.

That would be kind of meaningless, Miller's assists almost doubled when he came to Sac, because we played a totally different sort of game than the teams he'd been on. And the 21 year old Brad was not even in the NBA yet. At 22-23, he was still only getting 12 minutes of PT a game, so his stats were insignificant.

Vlade played for teams (e.g., Lakers) which liked more ball handling by their bigs, but he turned 22 halfway through his rookie year, nowadays a 22 year old typically has 2-3 years of NBA experience. At 21, Vlade was barely getting 10 minutes/game of garbage time himself.

Webber, on the other hand, got plenty of PT, entered the draft at 20, and played for a team with good ball movement, so he makes a pretty reasonable standard for comparison.

Partially relevant or totally not, here they are...

-------------------------assists------TO------assist/TO
Rookie Vlade:------0.9----------1.3
Rookie Brad:-------0.6-----------0.8
Rookie Chris-------3.6-----------2.7
total--------------------5.1-----------4.8--------1.1

Rookie Spencer---0.6-----------0.8
Rookie Jason------1.1-----------1.8
total--------------------1.7-----------2.6--------0.65

We still don't come out looking good. And, if what you want is winning like we did with the 28 year old Brad and the 35 year old Vlade, does that mean we have to suck for at least another 6 or 8 years while JT and Hawes work on their skills? If so, I would say that does nothing to refute my statement that we have a long road ahead of us (if we're taking the Princetonian route).

It's not meaningless. It's closer, and I mean closer (not equivalent)to an apples to apples comparison. And no, it doesn't mean we have to suck for seven or eight more years before - voila! - our assist totals miraculously jump to Vlade-like levels. Of course not. It will be a somewhat gradual rise.

As you describe above, assists is a stat that is dependent upon other factors. Such as, playing with teamates that have the ability to finish from the pass (Weber certainly had that in Golden State in his rookie year), and the type of offense that is run. Let me ask you this. Throw away the stats. Just go by what you've observed with both Hawes and Thompson. Don't you really think that they are above average passers? Let's not quibble about whether they are very good or great, let's just say that at a minimum they are above average. Don't you think their assist totally will go up when they play with more players who can finish off their passes? And don't you think that with the cohesion of playing in the same system under the same coach for a period of time that that will also enhance their assist totals? I think where we disagree is that you seem to think that Hawes and Thompson are inherently mediocre assist-makers and that what you see now in the assist totals is what you will get in the future. I see A LOT more potential in the assist category for both because both of them should become better low post players (finishers) over time, and they will play with better finishers (Evans, among them), and they will develop more of a feel for the game and their teamates with time and experience.

 

[bajaden]

thats why we need to trade one of our young bigs for a superstar before teams realize that they arent that good.... we can have that webber and vlade match up if we trade thompson and or hawes. we have a big enough expiring contract in thomas to make a move.

Somehow, I'm not sure how, you missed the entire point of my post. Therefore I don't understand your response. I think perhaps watching all the Laker games has affected your mind, and to be honest, your starting to look and act like a mole. I certainly hope I'm wrong on the later part.

 

[Rookie]

How can you blame Aries?..all his friends are Lakers fans. They filled his head with stuff that I cannot imagine.

 

[bajaden]

How can you blame Aries?..all his friends are Lakers fans. They filled his head with stuff that I cannot imagine.

Maybe he needs to choose different friends. No one with a Laker jersey is allowed in my house.

 

[Telemachus]

Maybe he needs to choose different friends. No one with a Laker jersey is allowed in my house.

I'm sure you would let them in as long as a ceremony burning the jersey followed shortly there after.

 

[fnordius]

And no, it doesn't mean we have to suck for seven or eight more years before - voila! - our assist totals miraculously jump to Vlade-like levels. Of course not. It will be a somewhat gradual rise...

Let me ask you this. Throw away the stats. Just go by what you've observed with both Hawes and Thompson. Don't you really think that they are above average passers? Let's not quibble about whether they are very good or great, let's just say that at a minimum they are above average. Don't you think their assist totally will go up when they play with more players who can finish off their passes?

I don't think that's their problem. The Kings shooting percentage isn't great, but it's only 1% below the NBA average, 44.7% as opposed to 45.7%. An NBA team typically takes about 81 shots in a game, so we're talking about less than 1 assist per game if the Kings went from being the 25th best shooting team in the NBA to being the 10th best. I think the problems lie elsewhere.

So far, Hawes seems to be slowly improving. JT was about as good as the guy I wanted us to draft (A. Randolph) at the start of the year, but he hasn't really progressed very much, Randolph seems to be blowing the doors off him by now.

I agree that neither of them are below average ball handlers for bigs, but as PGs they would be catastrophically bad. And that's what we're talking about, really... 7 foot tall PGs. That's what we need to make this thing work.

Vlade didn't have an A/TO ratio of above 1.0 until his 4th year in the NBA, he really got the hang of passing a lot in his 5th year.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/divacvl01.html
If Hawes and JT progress at the same rate, they will probably be playing for different teams by the time they're ready... or we'll be figuring out how many other players to get rid of because we can't afford their contract extensions otherwise.

As things stand right now, we're kind of forced to try to play something Princetonian, because we're awful when it comes to assists and turnovers, but the FO decided that we only needed a combo guard. Unless something very strange and unexpected happens in the coming months, we will be the only team in the NBA to have an A/TO ratio of less than 1. (Worst last year was Memphis, at 1.22... The '05-'06 Knicks had 1.05, but I'm not sure that ANY team has gone below 1.0 before, and don't want us to be the first. How we're going to prevent that, I don't know. Give Rodriguez tons of minutes?) In '04-'05 we still easily led the NBA in assists (24.5), and led in it A/TO ratio (1.93) too. Those are the sort of numbers we need if this is going to work. Not the (27th best) 19.7 assists and (29th best) 1.33 A/TO ratio we had last year, before we unloaded or benched our 7 best passers.

Now, I expected the Kings to suck this year, so I don't especially mind that they seem destined to do just that. What I do mind is feeling that we don't have a plan that seems to be designed around the strengths of players that we have. I want a clear sign of a workable plan. I really, REALLY want that.

 

[HighTopKicks]

I don't think that's their problem. The Kings shooting percentage isn't great, but it's only 1% below the NBA average, 44.7% as opposed to 45.7%. An NBA team typically takes about 81 shots in a game, so we're talking about less than 1 assist per game if the Kings went from being the 25th best shooting team in the NBA to being the 10th best. I think the problems lie elsewhere.

So far, Hawes seems to be slowly improving. JT was about as good as the guy I wanted us to draft (A. Randolph) at the start of the year, but he hasn't really progressed very much, Randolph seems to be blowing the doors off him by now.

I agree that neither of them are below average ball handlers for bigs, but as PGs they would be catastrophically bad. And that's what we're talking about, really... 7 foot tall PGs. That's what we need to make this thing work.

Vlade didn't have an A/TO ratio of above 1.0 until his 4th year in the NBA, he really got the hang of passing a lot in his 5th year.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/divacvl01.html
If Hawes and JT progress at the same rate, they will probably be playing for different teams by the time they're ready... or we'll be figuring out how many other players to get rid of because we can't afford their contract extensions otherwise.

As things stand right now, we're kind of forced to try to play something Princetonian, because we're awful when it comes to assists and turnovers, but the FO decided that we only needed a combo guard. Unless something very strange and unexpected happens in the coming months, we will be the only team in the NBA to have an A/TO ratio of less than 1. (Worst last year was Memphis, at 1.22... The '05-'06 Knicks had 1.05, but I'm not sure that ANY team has gone below 1.0 before, and don't want us to be the first. How we're going to prevent that, I don't know. Give Rodriguez tons of minutes?) In '04-'05 we still easily led the NBA in assists (24.5), and led in it A/TO ratio (1.93) too. Those are the sort of numbers we need if this is going to work. Not the (27th best) 19.7 assists and (29th best) 1.33 A/TO ratio we had last year, before we unloaded or benched our 7 best passers.

Now, I expected the Kings to suck this year, so I don't especially mind that they seem destined to do just that. What I do mind is feeling that we don't have a plan that seems to be designed around the strengths of players that we have. I want a clear sign of a workable plan. I really, REALLY want that.

So, when you sat down with Westphal and he explained to you what kind of offense he was planning to run, what exactly did he say that lead you to ASSUME that we're going to have the worst A/TO ratio in the league?

OH, and by the way, the FO didn't just get a combo guard they also got Rodriguez who as you pointed out is a true PG. Also, could you tell us who the 7 best players are that we unloaded or benched.

 

[Jespher]

Both Jarren and Jason Collins are UFAs. They'd fill the defensive bench big role well for 1-2 years, just don't expect much offense...

 

[bajaden]

I'm sure you would let them in as long as a ceremony burning the jersey followed shortly there after.

You would know!

 

[bajaden]

I don't think that's their problem. The Kings shooting percentage isn't great, but it's only 1% below the NBA average, 44.7% as opposed to 45.7%. An NBA team typically takes about 81 shots in a game, so we're talking about less than 1 assist per game if the Kings went from being the 25th best shooting team in the NBA to being the 10th best. I think the problems lie elsewhere.

So far, Hawes seems to be slowly improving. JT was about as good as the guy I wanted us to draft (A. Randolph) at the start of the year, but he hasn't really progressed very much, Randolph seems to be blowing the doors off him by now.

I agree that neither of them are below average ball handlers for bigs, but as PGs they would be catastrophically bad. And that's what we're talking about, really... 7 foot tall PGs. That's what we need to make this thing work.

Vlade didn't have an A/TO ratio of above 1.0 until his 4th year in the NBA, he really got the hang of passing a lot in his 5th year.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/divacvl01.html
If Hawes and JT progress at the same rate, they will probably be playing for different teams by the time they're ready... or we'll be figuring out how many other players to get rid of because we can't afford their contract extensions otherwise.

As things stand right now, we're kind of forced to try to play something Princetonian, because we're awful when it comes to assists and turnovers, but the FO decided that we only needed a combo guard. Unless something very strange and unexpected happens in the coming months, we will be the only team in the NBA to have an A/TO ratio of less than 1. (Worst last year was Memphis, at 1.22... The '05-'06 Knicks had 1.05, but I'm not sure that ANY team has gone below 1.0 before, and don't want us to be the first. How we're going to prevent that, I don't know. Give Rodriguez tons of minutes?) In '04-'05 we still easily led the NBA in assists (24.5), and led in it A/TO ratio (1.93) too. Those are the sort of numbers we need if this is going to work. Not the (27th best) 19.7 assists and (29th best) 1.33 A/TO ratio we had last year, before we unloaded or benched our 7 best passers.

Now, I expected the Kings to suck this year, so I don't especially mind that they seem destined to do just that. What I do mind is feeling that we don't have a plan that seems to be designed around the strengths of players that we have. I want a clear sign of a workable plan. I really, REALLY want that.

I said at the end of last year that the two things the Kings needed to improve upon were rebounding, especially defensive reboundin, and assists. Any time you average over 20 assists a game, your going to win more games than you lose. Thats assuming you don't also average over 20 turnovers a game.

On paper, they seem to be a better rebounding team with the addition of Evans alone. Casspi appears to be a good rebounder. I would expect Hawes and Thompson to improve in that area. Perhaps Nocioni will return to his habit of being a good rebounder.

I think the assists will be a work in progress. Playing the same players together and having a set rotation where every player knows whats expected of him will also help. A good coach always adjusts his game plan to fit the talent. Not the other way around. I've always admired Riley for that ability. He played one type of basketball when he was with the Lakers, and completely changed his style when he went to the Knicks.

Without knowing Westphal's game plan (I asked, but he wouldn't tell me), Its hard to predict whats going to happen. He seems to be emphasizing defense, and defense will make up for a lot of mistakes on offense.

Both Hawes and Thompson handle the ball pretty well for big men and both have above average passing skills. So far, I haven't seen any effort by the Kings coaching staff to utilitize their talents. Except for a play here and a play there. Nothing like the offense that we had with Vlade and Webb. I'm hopefull that Westphal will return to some variation of that offense in our half court, and will push the ball up the floor all the time, even if just get into our half court offense sooner.

Most of all, the starting five have to play together. Get comfortable together. A lot of turnovers come from infamilarity. Assists come from getting the ball to the right player in the right spot. That only comes from playing together. Please! Lets not have any major injuries this year. I worry about Martin. He's starting to look injury prone. Lets hope the last couple of years were an abberation..

 

[fnordius]

So, when you sat down with Westphal and he explained to you what kind of offense he was planning to run, what exactly did he say that lead you to ASSUME that we're going to have the worst A/TO ratio in the league?

Our A/TO ratio has little to do with Westphal's plans. It has a lot to do with the fact that Udrih and Rodriguez are our only players with A/TO ratios that don't stink, and neither are expected to be playing a lot of minutes (Udrih's is still poor for a PG, anyway). Unless Westphal plans on giving most of our PG minutes to Rodriguez, it's looking to be very bad, just based on our players. Our A/TO ratio was 29th in the league last year, so it would take very little for us to move into last place.

OH, and by the way, the FO didn't just get a combo guard they also got Rodriguez who as you pointed out is a true PG. Also, could you tell us who the 7 best players are that we unloaded or benched.

Sure, not a problem. It was actually 7 unloaded, plus Beno seemingly cut out of our future plans, so maybe the top 8.

Here are our players from last year, sorted by A/TO ratio.

BJax: 2.17
Douby: 2.17
Udrih: 2.16
Solomon: 2.00
McCants: 1.89
Brown: 1.85
Miller: 1.78
Salmons: 1.61
---- As you can see, unless we unexpectedly re-sign McCants or BJax, Beno is the only survivor in the top 8, and he is expected to be riding the pine. Ignoring a couple of insignificant benchers we unloaded, the list continues like so... ----
Garcia: 1.34
Nocioni: 1.05
Thomas: 1.00
Martin: 0.95
Hawes: 0.93
Greene: 0.81
Thompson: 0.64
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams...g&order=true&season=2&seasonYear=2009&split=0

We finished last year with a 1.33 A/TO ratio with the help of all of those guys we cut, I don't think there's much room for doubt that the remaining players would manage to stay below 1.0.

So let's see what help we get from the new guys.

Rodriguez: 2.40
Evans: 1.07 (college)
Brockman: 0.6 (college)
May: 0.37
Casspi: 0.36 (Euro)

I hope that makes it clearer why I think that a ton of Rodriguez PT is the only thing between us and a sub-1.0 A/TO ratio.

 

[fnordius]

I think the assists will be a work in progress... A good coach always adjusts his game plan to fit the talent.

I agree. My concern is that he's going to have a tough political issue in trying to juggle our best old player and our best new one, and I wish him all possible luck with that.

 

[bajaden]

I agree. My concern is that he's going to have a tough political issue in trying to juggle our best old player and our best new one, and I wish him all possible luck with that.

Agreed!

 

[VF21]

Our A/TO ratio has little to do with Westphal's plans. It has a lot to do with the fact that Udrih and Rodriguez are our only players with A/TO ratios that don't stink, and neither are expected to be playing a lot of minutes (Udrih's is still poor for a PG, anyway). Unless Westphal plans on giving most of our PG minutes to Rodriguez, it's looking to be very bad, just based on our players. Our A/TO ratio was 29th in the league last year, so it would take very little for us to move into last place.

Sure, not a problem. It was actually 7 unloaded, plus Beno seemingly cut out of our future plans, so maybe the top 8.

Here are our players from last year, sorted by A/TO ratio.

BJax: 2.17
Douby: 2.17
Udrih: 2.16
Solomon: 2.00
McCants: 1.89
Brown: 1.85
Miller: 1.78
Salmons: 1.61
---- As you can see, unless we unexpectedly re-sign McCants or BJax, Beno is the only survivor in the top 8, and he is expected to be riding the pine. Ignoring a couple of insignificant benchers we unloaded, the list continues like so... ----
Garcia: 1.34
Nocioni: 1.05
Thomas: 1.00
Martin: 0.95
Hawes: 0.93
Greene: 0.81
Thompson: 0.64
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams...g&order=true&season=2&seasonYear=2009&split=0

We finished last year with a 1.33 A/TO ratio with the help of all of those guys we cut, I don't think there's much room for doubt that the remaining players would manage to stay below 1.0.

So let's see what help we get from the new guys.

Rodriguez: 2.40
Evans: 1.07 (college)
Brockman: 0.6 (college)
May: 0.37
Casspi: 0.36 (Euro)

I hope that makes it clearer why I think that a ton of Rodriguez PT is the only thing between us and a sub-1.0 A/TO ratio.

This whole assist/turnover ratio thing is just numbers - numbers that may or may not prove to be even close to what will happen this year.

You cannot use last year's performances as a sole indicator of what might or might not happen this year. Too many things of changed. I know peopple love to look to statistics as some kind of magical crystal ball but there are just times when it's not relevant. IMHO this is one of those times.

The Kings that will take the court for 2009/2010 might include some familiar faces but there are a lot of factors that are not familiar. A different coach, a different approach, and a renewal of hope and interest by a growing number of fans could all lead to significant changes.

 

[kingsnation]

A different coach, a different approach, and a renewal of hope and interest by a growing number of fans could all lead to significant changes.

And a renewal of hope and interest from some of the players as well.