Walker or Knight?

rainmaker

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
Chances are we won't get a top 2 pick. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but if we don't, I think we're looking at Kanter/Knight/Walker as our options. Of course Petrie could look elsewhere, as there are other intriguing prospects, but if we pick in the 3-5 range, I'd expect these guys to be available.

Between Walker and Knight, who'd you rather have? I'd rather have Knight. Taller, better defender, and very good spot up shooter, with arguably more upside.
 
I'd rather have Knight for the reasons you stated, but just by hair. Kemba outplayed him on two occassions. Kemba is a liitle quicker, but not as big. They both have hit big shots and they both play D, though Knight probably has a higher ceiling in that area. Kemba would probably make more an immediate impact because he's older than Knight and more seasoned. If Petrie has the choice of the two, I'm not going to cry if he picks Kemba.
 
I like Knight, Coach Cal said the kid has the best work ethic he has ever seen which is saying a lot he coach 1 MVP and 2 ROYs and John Wall. He can be brought along slower that Tyreke and Cousins were.
 
I like both guys but of the two I think Knight will be the better NBA player.

That said, I'd rather take a swing at a guy like Bismack Biyombo.
 
Knight, basically for the same reasons as Rainmaker. I'm also a bit swayed by reports of Knight's 4.0 GPA compared against Kemba Walker's one-volume reading list.

That said, Walker shot lights out for the first half of this season and looked like a no-brainer for a while - it was only when the opposing defense finally realized they had to stop Walker at the expense of guarding anybody else that his numbers came down to earth. Somehow, I still think Knight ends up the better shooter.
 
Knight. Kemba is a smaller player who needs the ball in his hands to be effective.
 
Right now, Walker is the better all around, most experienced player of the two. But then he's a junior and Knight is a freshman. However, the difference isn't that great, and I think Knight has the bigger upside, and long term will be by far the better outside shooter. I'll give the edge to Walker on the defensive side right now as well. He's actually a pretty darned good defender. Once again, this is another area where I think Knight has the edge longterm simply because of his size.

While neither was all that impressive in displaying point guard skills, I think Knight and Walker can adjust to what ever is asked of them in the NBA. Clearly, Knight is my choice of the two. I'm also sceptical of how tall Walker really is. However, after watching Barea totally destroy the Lakers defense last night, I'm not sure it matters.

If we don't get the 1st or 2nd pick, I'm leaning in the direction of Enes Kanter. Only because the draft takes place before freeagency, and there's no guarantee that Dalembert will be back next year. I know thats the plan, and thats what I hope for, but Kanter would insurance for the future. I know a lot of folks are hot for Biyombo, but at this moment in time, I think Kanter is probably more ready to step in and play simple because of his higer skill level. But hey, if the powers that be like Biyombo, then so be it.

Edit: Quote of the night from Phil Jackson last night after the game, when asked by a reporter how he planned on inspiring his team to be ready for the next game. Jackson replied! "I plan on flogging them tomorrow"
 
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bajaden said:
Right now, Walker is the better all around, most experienced player of the two. But then he's a junior and Knight is a freshman. However, the difference isn't that great, and I think Knight has the bigger upside, and long term will be by far the better outside shooter. I'll give the edge to Walker on the defensive side right now as well. He's actually a pretty darned good defender. Once again, this is another area where I think Knight has the edge longterm simply because of his size.

While neither was all that impressive in displaying point guard skills, I think Knight and Walker can adjust to what ever is asked of them in the NBA. Clearly, Knight is my choice of the two. I'm also sceptical of how tall Walker really is. However, after watching Barea totally destroy the Lakers defense last night, I'm not sure it matters.

If we don't get the 1st or 2nd pick, I'm leaning in the direction of Enes Kanter. Only because the draft takes place before freeagency, and there's no guarantee that Dalembert will be back next year. I know thats the plan, and thats what I hope for, but Kanter would insurance for the future. I know a lot of folks are hot for Biyombo, but at this moment in time, I think Kanter is probably more ready to step in and play simple because of his higer skill level. But hey, if the powers that be like Biyombo, then so be it.

Edit: Quote of the night from Phil Jackson last night after the game, when asked by a reporter how he planned on inspiring his team to be ready for the next game. Jackson replied! "I plan on flogging them tomorrow"
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I haven't seen Kanter or Biyombo play. Have you seen them on film, or are you going on reports?

As an aside, this Lakers/Dallas series has been a dream come true so far. Oh, how I would love for Dallas to sweep!:D
 
Kemba was already proclaiming how he wants to play with Melo in NY while in the tournament.

He seems like a guy who wants the spotlight and there's nothing wrong with that, but not the ideal fit in Sacramento.


Knight is an excellent defender, also clutch, and runs the point a lot better.
 
Hard to say, as baja mentiones before, Walker is the better player right now, but Knight is still very young. I watched every Big East NCAA Championship tournament game of UConn and I have to say I was really impressed by the energy and athleticism Walker brings to the court. He was the best player in the whole tournament, that's a fact. I think he can really be effective playing off the ball as well. He's so fast coming off screens and pulling up for a jumper that I can really see him playing minutes with our other two ballhandling shooting guards (Reke, Thornton). I doubt that he's over 5'10 without shoes, but Chris Paul, Aaron Brooks and Aaron Lowry aren't much taller and doing quite decent in the NBA. For his size he's an excellent defender, but its hard to say, luckily I don't have to make the choice between these two guys and hopefully GP neither (if we win the lottery ;) )
 
Between those three, I take Kanter .. then Kemba, then Knight.

I would also consider Jan Vesely, who I have never seen play, but seems to be the best SF prospect if your calling Williams a PF. And like Bajaden said, with the draft coming before free agency, and the chance that free agency doenst happen until after the lockout I'd feel much better about our SF core with Vesely, Casspi, and Greene then just Casspi and Greene if we miss out on Prince, AK, ect ...
 
Kingster said:
I haven't seen Kanter or Biyombo play. Have you seen them on film, or are you going on reports?

As an aside, this Lakers/Dallas series has been a dream come true so far. Oh, how I would love for Dallas to sweep!:D
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I've seen Kanter play twice, both highschool all-star games, and I've seen Biyombo play once, again a highschool all-star game. So you have to take what you see in those type of games with a grain of salt. The difference between the two, in my humble opinion, is that Kanter showed a higher skill level than Biyombo did by a large margin. As I stated, his game reminds me greatly of Cousins game. Good passer. Handled the ball fairly well for a big. Had a very nice outside shot all the way out to the 3 pt line. He showed a decent post game with a couple of very nice moves, along with some nice footwork. He rebounded the ball extremely well and showed to be very fundamentally sound in that area. He even appeared to like banging bodies under the basket. He's a physcial player. As I said, you have to remember the context in which all this happened. All star games.

Biyombo of course blew everyone away in the same game that Kanter starred in a year earlier. Blocking something like ten shots and grabbing a million rebounds. He's a very athletic player with a great body that walks around on pogo sticks. What I didn't see from him was any ability to handle the ball or pass the ball. I believe he did make one jumper if memory serves. You have to remember, I wasn't watching the game with the intent to see Biyombo. I was watching to see Rivers, Teague, Smith etc. But there's no doubt that Biyombo had a great game, and singlehandedly kept the international team in the game. Take him off the floor and the game would have been a blowout.

But lets be clear, it was all about defense. And there's nothing wrong with that, but you do have to play both ends of the floor to play in the NBA. Just ask Thabeet. I'm not saying he can't be the next Serge Ibaka. But I'm saying he could also be the next Mouhamed Saer Sene. A player that did the identical thing in the identical all star game and got the same recognition that Biyombo is getting as a result. He was drafted in the first round and is now out of the NBA. Just saying!
 
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I saw a few videos of Kanter and when you couple that with scouting reports, he is literally a softhanded intelligent monster. He has a nice shot and the comparison to Cousins is right on. I don't know if growing a few inches is crucial when a guy is this broad shouldered but I wouldn't be surprised to see an inch or two of growth. Major league upper boddy. People bounce off him. Don't have a clue as to whether he can pass but if he truly has the basketball IQ attributed to him, he might be a passer also. In any case I would be happy to have him.
 
Glenn said:
I saw a few videos of Kanter and when you couple that with scouting reports, he is literally a softhanded intelligent monster. He has a nice shot and the comparison to Cousins is right on. I don't know if growing a few inches is crucial when a guy is this broad shouldered but I wouldn't be surprised to see an inch or two of growth. Major league upper boddy. People bounce off him. Don't have a clue as to whether he can pass but if he truly has the basketball IQ attributed to him, he might be a passer also. In any case I would be happy to have him.
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I'm not very excited about Knight or Walker. In a weak draft, you have to take BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE. I would be happy with Kanter, he looks like a Kevin Love with a better jumpshot.
 
It would be wonderful to get Thornton out of the starting lineup, right? I am so out of synch I can't believe it. I thought Thornton was a good thing. Some say he changed the entire dynamics of the team and made them better. Some think he is one off the three studs to carry this team into the future. So now put him on the bench. I want to know why.
 
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I would go with Walker. I think he's going to be a good NBA player one day. He's got ball handling skills, and can learn to play the point.
 
Glenn said:
It would be wonderful to get Thornton out of the starting lineup, right? I am so out of synch I can't believe it. I thought Thornton was a good thing. Some say he changed the entire dynamics of the team and made them better. Some think he is one off the three studs to carry this team into the future. So now put him on the bench. I want to know why.
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The only reason you bench Thorton next year is if Evans and Cousins blow up so huge they don't get the touches they need with the starters. The other reason would be if he doesn't move the ball and acts like a 1/2 option.

Long-term, I'm not convinced he's an awesome match for Evans and Cousins in the starting lineup, but last year he took a lot of weight off their shoulders and I would hesitate to mess with that.
 
I am hesitant to mess with anything on this team and that is principle one I operate from. Yes, bajaden, I put this above proper, precise, and hard nosed salary negotiations.

The idea that two players suddenly become so spectacular that the multiple skills, and I say multiple, of Thornton are not needed and get in the way seems remote. He is far more than a shooter. We don't need a PG to distribute the ball to Reke. He doesn't play that kind of game. We need another guard with a reliable 3 point shot and already have him. He needs to be able to shoot and if he can drive, so much the better. Thornton can drive. I think Reke will eventually be a great outside shooter but that's not a guarantee. He has tremendous upper body strength (a necsessity for long distance shooting) and is a consistent form away from being a threat. Having two with roughly similar and varied skills seems wonderful. One is the superior attacker and the other is the superior long distance shooter. This is Thornton/Reke a couple years from now. I don't think I am stretching this prediction as it certainly seems more likely than not.

Long story short: Reke and Thronton are our starters for the next decade barring the unforseen.

Four of the starters are set and even if the tragedy occurs and we don't fill the SF spot, we'll still be better but the major push will have been put off. Wouldn't it be wonderfiul if we got Walker? I still might want a FA shooting forward because no draft pick is a guarantee, especially a guy switching positions from his PF college position. A draft of Williams might mean we can sign an older FA as when he ages out, Walker is ready. This principle does not hold with either guard spot.

The same principle goes for the big position. I see a big guy as ideal because by the time Dally breaks a hip, we'll have a nice guy to replace him. Either Dally or a FA SF can be place holders for this year's proper draft pick. This is where I choke a little with a pg pick unless we are ready to trade Beno or Cisco or both (and unfortunately get younger at a time when we have been so lacking in veteran leadership.) A PG pick would put off the culmination of the rebuild, the part that includes veteran leadership, but maybe that's OK. I'll concede that maybe that's OK but there is an outside dynamic of the team needing to fill ARCO this year and that might be important. (Maybe I am over thinking but I can't get it out of my mind that this could be the last year here and it is best they look great this year to fill ARCO)

There are many ways to go and I don't remember a time on the Kings' history when so little needed to be done to make them very competitive. We can argue to the death about who to pick and that's not as much fun for me than most of you, but the bottom line, whoever Petrie picks will add that little extra to the team that almost puts us into being a talent laden team. When you look up how to do a rebuild as a smaller market team, look up OKC and the Kings. This "cheapness" people complain about has left us in a position to do everything we need to do, (including over pay - that's for bajaden :) ). We can spend a lot for the SF, Dally, and Thornton and still be under the cap significantly. This has been a marverlous rebuild. On the other hand watch what happens in a few years when Pau and Kobe take up $50 mil of the Lakers' salary. But then they have won two championships in the process !!!!! We haven't.

For the sake of argument, run through your mind a team with Kirilenko and Walker/Knight/Kanter/Irving and that's a deep team a year or two from being great. Heck, greatness could hit next year.

_______

As a total aside and not mentioned to high jack a great thread, who are the guys again that people like at the big position besides Kanter and Biyombo (sp?). I have fallen in love with Kanter somewhat in the same way I fell in love with Cousins. He's a man among boys but unfortunately demands the ball in the low block exactly where Cousins demands it. Might be a problem.

Go Mavs! All those overage, overpaid Mavs.
 
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LPKingsFan said:
Shawn Marion took a pay cut from $17 to $6 million two years ago, still in his prime at the age of 31. :p
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Sorry. I'll be more careful next time. I didn't check each individual salary.

The team salary for the Mavericks is $90 million this year. The Kings team salary is $44 mil. We are watching the post season and they are playing and are 3-0 against the Lakers. If they didn't "overpay" someone, I'd be shocked.
 
Glenn said:
Sorry. I'll be more careful next time. I didn't check each individual salary.

The team salary for the Mavericks is $90 million this year. The Kings team salary is $44 mil. We are watching the post season and they are playing and are 3-0 against the Lakers. If they didn't "overpay" someone, I'd be shocked.
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First off, I'm proud to be a part of any arguement you might make for any reason.. Good name recognition is always a plus. Secondly, it doesn't look like the Lakers are going to win a championship this year. No sympathy there. As for overpaying, I guess if you do win a championship, no one is overpaid! Right! Too much has been made of the Kings current salary structure. Whether its a result of intent, for rebuilding the team, or because of finances, it was a necessary evil that had to be done. So were stuck with the old chicken or egg thing and which came first. Personally I don't care. As long as the powers that be, take advantage of their position, salary cap wise, I'm happy!

We are in total agreement on starting Cousins, Evan, and Thornton. Almost every great team had at least three guys on the floor that could score the ball. There are going to be nights when someone is going to be cold and can't hit a shot. So there will always be enough balls to go around as long as they play as a team. Its hard enough to find three young players that fit your needs in the right spots. If you do, don't screw with it. Develop it!!!!!

By the way, here's Dallas roster and what they made this season, and what they'll make next season, if they're under contract for next season. You can judge for yourself who is overpaid and whose not. Very subjective of course

Dirk Nowitzki: 17.2 mil. Next season, 19 mil
Tyson Chandler: 12.6 mil. Free agent
Caron Butler: 10.8 mil. Free agent, and someone the Kings might consider persuing.
Jason Terry: 9.8 mil. Next season, 10.6 mil
Jason Kidd: 8.6 mil. Next season, 8.6 Mil
Shawn Marion: 7 mil. Next season, 7.7 mil
Brendan Haywood: 6.9 mil. Next season, 7.6 mil
DeShawn Stevenson: 4.1 mil. Freeagent
Corey Brewer: 2.8 mil. Next season, 3.0 mil
Jose Juan Barea: 1.8 mil. Freeagent, and probably the most underpaid player on the team considering what he brings to the floor. The dude has been terrific for them this year.

Chandler is probably a little overpaid, but as I said, if you end up winning a championship, whose complaining? As long as Dirk keeps playing the way he has, he probably deserves his money. Dirk makes a lot of things happen for Dallas just by being on the floor. For instance, Dallas can beat you to death with the pick and roll. But take Dirk out of the pick and roll and its a hell of lot easier to defend, since they usually end up doubling down on Dirk and taking their chances on the PG. Thats exactly how Barea disected the Lakers the other night..
 
Between Walker and Knight I'll take Knight hands down.

Knight is far and away going to be the better defender of the two. I'll admit that Walker is a very good defender at his size, but in the NBA I'll take the 4-5 extra inches of height that Knight is going to give you, and Knight has the lateral quickness to be able to stay with the quick guards in the NBA.

Also, I believe that Tyreke and Knight would pair up really well together. Knight is really good moving off the ball and getting set up to catch-and-shoot, so his ability to play off-the-ball would work well with Tyreke.

Knight is a great shooter, and I think his attitude will mesh better with the team. Also, it doesn't hurt that he's been coached up by Calipari and will have that situation to help him bond with both Tyreke and Cousins. I can imagine Calipari talking up Knight to Petrie and telling him that just like Tyreke and Cousins, Knight is going to help the team.

Two years from now I'd rather have a guard rotation of Tyreke/Thorton/Knight than a rotation of Tyreke/Thorton/Udrih.

I just don't think that Knight would supplant Thorton in the starting line-up, and Beno has been a steady presence for the team. So while I think Knight is a better player than Beno, I'm not sure if he's going to immediately supplant Beno, so I'd imagine him not getting the kind of minutes we've been seeing of our rookies of late.

Thorton really changed everything for this team. Prior to picking him up, I had Knight very high on my list, and saw him in the starting unit next to Tyreke. Now...I just don't know how you distribute the minutes unless you plan on trading Beno, or fail to re-sign Thorton.

I'm not at all a fan of Walkers. I saw him play in 15-20 games this year and though he played really well, something about him makes me feel he wouldn't be a good fit for this King's team. At the moment the majority of the shots are taken up by Tyreke/Cousins/Thorton, and I see Knight being able to fit into a team concept where he isn't the primary scorer far, far easier than Walker.
 
Uncia03 said:
Between Walker and Knight I'll take Knight hands down.

Knight is far and away going to be the better defender of the two. I'll admit that Walker is a very good defender at his size, but in the NBA I'll take the 4-5 extra inches of height that Knight is going to give you, and Knight has the lateral quickness to be able to stay with the quick guards in the NBA.

Also, I believe that Tyreke and Knight would pair up really well together. Knight is really good moving off the ball and getting set up to catch-and-shoot, so his ability to play off-the-ball would work well with Tyreke.

Knight is a great shooter, and I think his attitude will mesh better with the team. Also, it doesn't hurt that he's been coached up by Calipari and will have that situation to help him bond with both Tyreke and Cousins. I can imagine Calipari talking up Knight to Petrie and telling him that just like Tyreke and Cousins, Knight is going to help the team.

Two years from now I'd rather have a guard rotation of Tyreke/Thorton/Knight than a rotation of Tyreke/Thorton/Udrih.

I just don't think that Knight would supplant Thorton in the starting line-up, and Beno has been a steady presence for the team. So while I think Knight is a better player than Beno, I'm not sure if he's going to immediately supplant Beno, so I'd imagine him not getting the kind of minutes we've been seeing of our rookies of late.

Thorton really changed everything for this team. Prior to picking him up, I had Knight very high on my list, and saw him in the starting unit next to Tyreke. Now...I just don't know how you distribute the minutes unless you plan on trading Beno, or fail to re-sign Thorton.

I'm not at all a fan of Walkers. I saw him play in 15-20 games this year and though he played really well, something about him makes me feel he wouldn't be a good fit for this King's team. At the moment the majority of the shots are taken up by Tyreke/Cousins/Thorton, and I see Knight being able to fit into a team concept where he isn't the primary scorer far, far easier than Walker.
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Great minds think alike! Were in total agreement. Knight is very good off the ball, and personality wise, he's not that aggressive, so I don't think he would have a problem giving the lead to someone else on the team. I know Calapari has mentioned Knight being a little shy, but at the same time, very mature for an 18 year old. And yes, he's still 18 years old and won't be 19 until either Dec. or Jan. I believe he's the youngest player in the draft.
 
If I had to choose between the two id take Walker because he's more of a leader IMO and even though he doesn't have the grades and all that he's very determined and I was really impressed by the drive and will to win he showed in the tourney. we need guys who can win.

that being said I would not take a guard in the 1st unless we don't plan to resign Marcus t. I'd much rather go biyombo and fill out our frontcourt and continue the defensive theme on this team and have him learn under Sammy for a few years. faried maybe too I love his defensive intensity.

and then in the 2nd I'd like to take a more traditional pg type with good court vision and passing ballhandling skills to backup reke and Thornton. beno is a turd and we sure need a replacement ASAP. he rarely ever passes anymore and when he does it's usually because his drive failed and he's surrounded by 3 guys so he can't get a shot off and has to toss a pass over his head to an unsuspecting target. and his defensive intensity makes me want to slap the taste out of his mouth he's the worst defender I've ever seen in the league. total ballhog and chucker with zero defensive value. I think we can replace him in the 2nd with a pg who can pass/dribble setup an offense and is a decent perimeter defender with some
intensity and heart because I cant stand another season of watching Beno run like a madman into traffic and then jump in the air and have to throw a horrible pass. or sag off his man on defense so bad that hes basically just pretending to double someone so he doesn't have to try on defense.

if drafting either one of these guys keeps beno off the court I am all for it, although i think we can replace him in the 2nd.
 
to anyone who mentions Kanter, are you not extremely worried about his knees or is it just me? have I overblown his knee issue into something more than it really is? or do most people not know about it because he didn't play for Kentucky this past year?0
 
hiero said:
to anyone who mentions Kanter, are you not extremely worried about his knees or is it just me? have I overblown his knee issue into something more than it really is? or do most people not know about it because he didn't play for Kentucky this past year?0
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yeah there's occasional mention of his knees, but I don't know the extend of his knee problems. Knees problems always make me worry...ie Greg Oden. anybody know any details?
 
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